Bother at the end

GovanFront4 said:
I believe they should be vocal about stamping it out if they are so pissed off about it. That hasn’t happened and in fact it’s got worse.

Have you seen anything to suggest these fans are trying to stop it out?
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Are they going to be supporting the IRA in any other games in the world that don't involve Rangers?

Maybe Linfield or something if either side has a massive swing in fortune.

It's football fans winding each other up. Most people on here have had digs at Celtic over child rape, if you know anyone who's actually impacted by that sort of thing, you won't like anyone singing about it jovially while claiming to 'raise awareness' of what Celtic did.

It's childish, idiotic, arrested development displayed up and down the country by football fans of every background and set of beliefs.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I believe they should be vocal about stamping it out if they are so pissed off about it. That hasn’t happened and in fact it’s got worse.

Have you seen anything to suggest these fans are trying to stop it out?
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I've no idea - I have a minimal interest in football outside of Rangers and last week's game at Anfield and last night's game at Ibrox were the first ninety minutes of a Liverpool game I've watched since we played them in a friendly years ago. I've no idea about how concerted the effort is to reduce chants supporting the IRA from sections of the Liverpool support, or indeed that it was an issue at all.

However, this hasn't answered the question at all. It's a wider question about whether you should stop supporting a club because a section of idiotic fans indulge in idiotic behaviour. So I'll ask again: should a lifelong and apolitical Liverpool fan stop attending their games because of the behaviour of some of their fans? Should a guy who attends Liverpool games because he just loves the club be punished because of the behaviour of fans that he also actively despises?
 
Kubala said:
Maybe you should try looking at it from the point of view that nobody should really glass anyone, over pretty much anything that could happen in a stadium between two sets of fans separated by a line of police and stewards
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Ok mate 30 year of war was just a laugh to noise people up. How stupid of us to think it was more serious than that. Nearly 4000 lives but it’s just football banter eh?
 
ClockworkOrange said:
I've no idea - I have a minimal interest in football outside of Rangers and last week's game at Anfield and last night's game at Ibrox were the first ninety minutes of a Liverpool game I've watched since we played them in a friendly years ago. I've no idea about how concerted the effort is to reduce chants supporting the IRA from sections of the Liverpool support, or indeed that it was an issue at all.

However, this hasn't answered the question at all. It's a wider question about whether you should stop supporting a club because a section of idiotic fans indulge in idiotic behaviour. So I'll ask again: should a lifelong and apolitical Liverpool fan stop attending their games because of the behaviour of some of their fans? Should a guy who attends Liverpool games because he just loves the club be punished because of the behaviour of fans that he also actively despises?
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I don’t think they should stop supporting their team. I do think they should appreciate as long as fellow fans act that way then they will be a target. If that bothers them, they should make it known the idiots and their IRA support aren’t welcome.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I don’t think they should stop supporting their team. I do think they should appreciate as long as fellow fans act that way then they will be a target. If that bothers them, they should make it known the idiots and their IRA support aren’t welcome.
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So they've not to stop supporting their team, but they should expect to be targeted? So you're happy to see a Liverpool fan who actively loathes the IRA being assaulted because he's personally not done enough to reprimand the idiots in his support?

Chelsea fans hissing at Tottenham fans? Man United fans singing about Hillsborough? Are all of these supporters to be targeted because their fans haven't done enough?
 
ClockworkOrange said:
So they've not to stop supporting their team, but they should expect to be targeted? So you're happy to see a Liverpool fan who actively loathes the IRA being assaulted because he's personally not done enough to reprimand the idiots in his support?

Chelsea fans hissing at Tottenham fans? Man United fans singing about Hillsborough? Are all of these supporters to be targeted because their fans haven't done enough?
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I think they should understand why they may be targeted yeah. Do they think they can just stand in a group singing about the IRA and not expect any sort of come back on it?

This has been ramping up with Liverpool fans for a while now.
 
I counted 6 tri colours in their end last night and the up t ra chanting in the video.

Certainly put me off their support and club
 
GovanFront4 said:
I think they should understand why they may be targeted yeah. Do they think they can just stand in a group singing about the IRA and not expect any sort of come back on it?

This has been ramping up with Liverpool fans for a while now.
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The question here is about whether all Liverpool fans should be targeted for the behaviour of others in the support, so using words like "they" without clarifying who this is doesn't really help.

A substantial section of the Liverpool support at Anfield this Sunday will be made up of day trippers, casual fans, young guys who have grown up worshipping Salah and co and foreign guys who started supporting the club in the seventies and eighties. Presumably it's fine for these fans to be targeted because of 1. The behaviour of others and 2. A perceived lack of failure to target a growing issue with some Liverpool fans. Would it be fine for a school group to be targeted, for example? I imagine they'll be lots down there this weekend.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
The question here is about whether all Liverpool fans should be targeted for the behaviour of others in the support, so using words like "they" without clarifying who this is doesn't really help.

A substantial section of the Liverpool support at Anfield this Sunday will be made up of day trippers, casual fans, young guys who have grown up worshipping Salah and co and foreign guys who started supporting the club in the seventies and eighties. Presumably it's fine for these fans to be targeted because of 1. The behaviour of others and 2. A perceived lack of failure to target a growing issue with some Liverpool fans. Would it be fine for a school group to be targeted, for example? I imagine they'll be lots down there this weekend.
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I wouldn’t expect a school group to be situated in an away end singing IRA songs and if they were I would expect them to be getting history lessons on the Monday morning.

If you are in an away end singing IRA songs and are attacked by Rangers fans, then they should be angry and their own fans that brought it on to them.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I wouldn’t expect a school group to be situated in an away end singing IRA songs and if they were I would expect them to be getting history lessons on the Monday morning.

If you are in an away end singing IRA songs and are attacked by Rangers fans, then they should be angry and their own fans that brought it on to them.
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No - I'm talking about this weekend's game now.

If IRA chants start from a section of Liverpool fans in Sunday's game against City, is it fair game for them - or similarly innocent fans, who have not been, or are not in, a position to challenge or campaign against this growing issue - to be targeted?
 
ClockworkOrange said:
No - I'm talking about this weekend's game now.

If IRA chants start from a section of Liverpool fans in Sunday's game against City, is it fair game for them - or similarly innocent fans, who have not been, or are not in, a position to challenge or campaign against this growing issue - to be targeted?
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If the Kop sings IRA songs, the Kop deserves all it gets.
 
If this is a minority of Liverpool fans singing up the ra and it’s not a true reflection of them , then why do the majority of their away support not shut them up and give them a slap. Fuckin scumbags. Chanting about an organisation that bombed their own country and in nearby Liverpool. Tramps.
 
GovanFront4 said:
If the Kop sings IRA songs, the Kop deserves all it gets.
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Nah, you're skirting the question again and dealing with the support as a single entity.

We're talking about a section of the Kop who aren't singing these songs and haven't been in a position to challenge or confront the issue.

So I'll ask again: should a school group or bunch of day trippers be targeted from the behaviour of other fans? It's really a simple yes or no, mate.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Nah, you're skirting the question again and dealing with the support as a single entity.

We're talking about a section of the Kop who aren't singing these songs and haven't been in a position to challenge or confront the issue.

So I'll ask again: should a school group or bunch of day trippers be targeted from the behaviour of other fans? It's really a simple yes or no, mate.
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Probably not targeted, but I wouldn’t be sympathetic toward them if they did.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Probably not targeted, but I wouldn’t be sympathetic toward them if they did.
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Finally we got there!

I actually know of a school group heading down - non-dom, naturally - and it's a group of S1s to S3s. Nice to know you wouldn't be sympathetic of an 11 year old who just really likes Salah or his female teacher getting pelted with a coin because of some idiot singing about the IRA.
 
captcaveman said:
Is this like the Dundee Utd female fans claim that she had bottles thrown at her and that was bullshit. If anyone had been hit in the face with a bottle there would have been police right in with them and paramedics taking this female from her seat so, did you see any of that? Is there evidence of this that she was hit in the face?
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If an old woman had been hit by a bottle. Anyone in the vicinity have gone mad but pics /video would also have been taken. So I'm calling shite on this until I see otherwise.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Finally we got there!

I actually know of a school group heading down - non-dom, naturally - and it's a group of S1s to S3s. Nice to know you wouldn't be sympathetic of an 11 year old who just really likes Salah or his female teacher getting pelted with a coin because of some idiot singing about the IRA.
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Good for them, hopefully the teacher will report the person singing to the police and explain to the kids why it’s completely unacceptable and not just stand there like the majority of the fans.
 
Swedish Chef said:
Daft wee boys up the back of BF1 who were nothing with the UB lads

Having been there to witness it , I saw the UB refuse to even acknowledge his presence
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I was in the section when the UB and TBO led protests against Green during his speech on the park. The section took pelters from people demanding he was allowed to speak.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Good for them, hopefully the teacher will report the person singing to the police and explain to the kids why it’s completely unacceptable and not just stand there like the majority of the fans.
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Oh, hopefully they would - absolutely!

But also hopefully someone wouldn't be stupid enough to try and treat a support as a homogenous entity with uniformly identical sympathies and identities. Man, would that be silly.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Oh, hopefully they would - absolutely!

But also hopefully someone wouldn't be stupid enough to try and treat a support as a homogenous entity with uniformly identical sympathies and identities. Man, would that be silly.
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Next time the Celtic support are here singing IRA and Brits Out we will just need to remember it’s not a homogenous entity and appreciate there may be some not singing so we can’t give anything back.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Next time the Celtic support are here singing IRA and Brits Out we will just need to remember it’s not a homogenous entity and appreciate there may be some not singing so we can’t give anything back.
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That's clearly different, though - this is a thread specifically about a section of Liverpool fans that you've described as something that is a growing issue with the support, not an established one; and there's been no attempt by Celtic fans to rid the club of fans who sing songs about the IRA. It's not really comparable at all.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
That's clearly different, though - this is a thread specifically about a section of Liverpool fans that you've described as something that is a growing issue with the support, not an established one; and there's been no attempt by Celtic fans to rid the club of fans who sing songs about the IRA. It's not really comparable at all.
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I don’t see a difference. If they are in a section singing about the IRA then they should be pissed off at those doing it and understand why they are being targeted.
 
GovanFront4 said:
I don’t see a difference. If they are in a section singing about the IRA then they should be pissed off at those doing it and understand why they are being targeted.
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You don't see a difference between some Liverpool fans singing support for the IRA - very obviously ramped up for a game against us - and fans who sing it every week, and have people who support the club for that reason? C'mon.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
You don't see a difference between some Liverpool fans singing support for the IRA - very obviously ramped up for a game against us - and fans who sing it every week, and have people who support the club for that reason? C'mon.
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A group of fans singing about the IRA is a group of fans singing about the IRA. The colour of their shirt doesn’t change that.

We will just agree to disagree as I feel bans coming and I don’t think anyone deserves to be banned for their views on something that is clearly emotive.
 
GovanFront4 said:
A group of fans singing about the IRA is a group of fans singing about the IRA. The colour of their shirt doesn’t change that.

We will just agree to disagree as I feel bans coming and I don’t think anyone deserves to be banned for their views on something that is clearly emotive.
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This is getting tiring: when Liverpool play, the section of fans singing in support of the IRA is significantly smaller (and in games not against us, I'm willing to bet almost zero) than it is when they Celtic play, a team where Republican sympathies is why people support them in the first place, not a growing issue.

You're essentially saying that it's equally fine to target a Liverpool support where the IRA support is significantly reduced as much as it is to target Celtic fans, where the IRA support is a fundamental part of the away fan experience and a fundamental reason why people support them in the first place. They're not the same at all.
 
Kubala said:
How about their murdering scumbag behaviour at Heysel?

Looking forward to how that wasn't actually their fault like everything else in life.
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Heysel was horrendous, no argument about that. However it was a riot by both sets of fans that sadly caused 39 deaths of Juventus fans, caused bythe rioting Liverpool fans mainly.

Maybe bear in mind though that many clubs fans have been involved in riots where nothing so extreme thankfully happened.. Our own fans have been involved in rioting, some of which I personally was at, Newcastle, Villa Park and Old Trafford among them. It happened all to frequently at games in most places during games throughout Britain but as said nothing about as extreme as Heysel but it could have for any clubs fanbase, ours included
 
OnTheWay said:
Gutted you think that, honestly it breaks my heart that a bin dipper's only response to their vile support chanting about the IRA is "wHaT AbOuT tHe BaNnEr for ThE 66"

Their support is full of Republican scumbags
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There were Liverpool supporting Orangemen at Ibrox on Wednesday, are these people also Republican scumbags or are you overlooking that.
 
Johansen said:
There were Liverpool supporting Orangemen at Ibrox on Wednesday, are these people also Republican scumbags or are you overlooking that.
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You are clutching at straws here now. There may be some loyalists in their support, I know a few myself, but even they admit their wider fan base is riddled with scum now.

Stop making excuses for them. Their behaviour was unacceptable and we as a club should have nothing to do with them.
 
Liverpool fans are scum as their history tells you but offcourse they were going to sing things that would wind up our fans. It’s what away fans do. About 20 teenagers running over just made us look silly.

It’s probably an age thing on my part but this whole ‘ ultras ‘ movement by teams is just embarrassing. Wee boys dressed up like burglars acting hard when they would crap it if someone actually came at them. The constant drone songs ‘ jump on the heids of Glasgow Celtic etc’ are utter cringe.

Away games are a joke aswell where they act like they run the place and start telling people where they should be. Get stuck behind the flags and you can’t see a bloody thing.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
This is getting tiring: when Liverpool play, the section of fans singing in support of the IRA is significantly smaller (and in games not against us, I'm willing to bet almost zero) than it is when they Celtic play, a team where Republican sympathies is why people support them in the first place, not a growing issue.

You're essentially saying that it's equally fine to target a Liverpool support where the IRA support is significantly reduced as much as it is to target Celtic fans, where the IRA support is a fundamental part of the away fan experience and a fundamental reason why people support them in the first place. They're not the same at all.
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Some top posts from you mate, much appreciated. As a person who despises the IRA and all terrorists it's not pleasant to hear a tiny minority of your own fans sing about them but as I said last night as unpleasant as it is, it was undoubtedly done to wind up Rangers fans. And it clearly worked.
And the majority of the minority singing if that makes sense, will likely also have no idea about the history of Irish terrorism.
The problem is that the some on here find it hard to look beyond the monarch, the flag and protestantism.
Lots of people outside the west of Scotland and Northern Ireland are not as fervent as Rangers fans and some areas in particular such as Merseyside are uninterested.
My own gang of mates happen to be mostly C of E, but honestly religion and sectarianism doesn't come up in conversation it's just kind of different down here and that's not a criticism btw.
 
DerekSSR said:
I find it hard to care, the video is a bit cringe but honestly after a 7-1 defeat a video of wee guys shouting at Liverpool fans isn't going to upset me.
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Exactly. What is all the fuss about ? A few people shouting at the Scousers as they make their way out of the stadium.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
This is getting tiring: when Liverpool play, the section of fans singing in support of the IRA is significantly smaller (and in games not against us, I'm willing to bet almost zero) than it is when they Celtic play, a team where Republican sympathies is why people support them in the first place, not a growing issue.

You're essentially saying that it's equally fine to target a Liverpool support where the IRA support is significantly reduced as much as it is to target Celtic fans, where the IRA support is a fundamental part of the away fan experience and a fundamental reason why people support them in the first place. They're not the same at all.
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The demographics of their support is changing though. If you had stood on the Kop in the 60's and waved an Irish tricolour, you'd have been beaten up on the spot. And yet the tricolour has now replaced the Union flag and basically has done so for 3 decades.
And it's getting visibly worse every time I go down there......... ' Scouse Not English '.
 
Johansen said:
There were Liverpool supporting Orangemen at Ibrox on Wednesday, are these people also Republican scumbags or are you overlooking that.
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If there were they would be a tiny minority unless they were also waving celtic scarfs, irish flags and singing 'up the ra' for the bants?

There's orangeman in the Hearts and Motherwell support but both of those supports can take a flying fck to themselves as well.

Imagine trying to defend those rats.
 
bar72bear lm said:
Liverpool fans are scum as their history tells you but offcourse they were going to sing things that would wind up our fans. It’s what away fans do. About 20 teenagers running over just made us look silly.

It’s probably an age thing on my part but this whole ‘ ultras ‘ movement by teams is just embarrassing. Wee boys dressed up like burglars acting hard when they would crap it if someone actually came at them. The constant drone songs ‘ jump on the heids of Glasgow Celtic etc’ are utter cringe.

Away games are a joke aswell where they act like they run the place and start telling people where they should be. Get stuck behind the flags and you can’t see a bloody thing.
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I think it is a generational thing. Like in the 80s when the casuals came about the older blokes thought they were little fannies. These older blokes were maybe 70s bootboys in their day who were probably thought of as little fannies by the older blokes at that time. Thats how it works. On liverpool i know for a fact that a fair few of their fans have the same leanings as Rangers fans. I knew a few of the Rangers supporters liverpool branch and i mind them telling me that some of them were called "orange bastards" by villa fans when following liverpool. That was the perception some people had of liverpool at that time. I also remember the european cup finals of the late 70s and 80s where there would be loads of union jacks in the liverpool end. No tricolors.
I dont know whats happened, it might just be the sheer amount of fans they have in the republic, Its a ferry trip away after all. The irish have no real football culture of their own so like all kids will pick teams they see on tv and usually pick the most successful ones, hence the huge number of liverpool fans there. Having said all that it puzzles me how some of the loyalist liverpool fans ive mentioned could keep schtum sitting next to pricks shouting "up the ra" and waving tricolors.
 
1972 bear said:
What a hoaching thread.

So called "bears" sticking the boot in to Rangers fans for squaring up to the scumbags last night.
Fantasist claiming a granny got bottled.
Apologists for the scumbags passing off ira chants and songs about the Queen as a joke and just a wind up to Rangers fans.

F*ckin weirdos!!!
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Yet here you are sticking the boot into fans for all sorts of daft reasons. Calling them liars for literally no reason and thinking innocent bystanders deserve to have glass bottles launched at them because they aren't singlehandedly policing the entire away support.

Some cheek calling us weirdos.
 
psykal said:
Yet here you are sticking the boot into fans for all sorts of daft reasons. Calling them liars for literally no reason and thinking innocent bystanders deserve to have glass bottles launched at them because they aren't singlehandedly policing the entire away support.

Some cheek calling us weirdos.
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Is there any evidence that anything was launched into the Liverpool support, or that anyone was struck in the face with a glass bottle?

All I've seen is a video of a few kids dancing about 50 yards from the away support giving it c'mon and hawd me back please!

BBC appear to have been exaggerating the seriousness, or is there some evidence this happened?
 
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