Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

Marstonbear said:
It’s no longer a case of who knew but does anyone exist who didn’t know?
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With the cover - ups and non action and poor excuses and non apologies to victims one can only wonder just how big this paedo ring has been . Has it been so big within the UK and perhaps Ireland or in the Cairney case does it even involve the USA ? Are there people of so called high standing in places of Government run establishments or in the entertainment world that could be involved in all this ? because there seems to be too much hush hush antics to protect the “ Good name of CFC “:rolleyes: or is it also to protect the “ Good name " of others in the public eye who have also been part of the disgusting paedo ring and are using their influence to try and keep it all low profile ? because the lack of apologies and acknowledgements to the victims is totally unbelievable from the football authorities and the press as a whole . I wish Mr. McGuire every success in winning the case for the victims but I cannot help feeling there is much much more to be discovered from the Stadium of Shame .
 
jf1960 said:
It’s the twenty sixth of May, 2019. The weather’s sunny but changeable. The 2018/2019 football season in Scotland has just ended. Two days ago Theresa May resigned as Prime Minister. Celtic football club took that opportunity to release a statement on their former employee and kit-man Jim McCafferty having been convicted of offences against children. That conviction took place 10 days previous.
Celtics statement expressed regret and sorrow but never expressed any apologises. Presumably because to do so would be to accept some responsibility, in both the legal and moral senses. And when responsibility is applied to actions then come consequences. And when crimes are involved the consequences should balance. It’s called justice.
Celtics adopted legal stance from the day that abuse was uncovered has been to ignore the issue, to hide it and to consistently accept no responsibility. That moment and that legal stance didn’t coincide with a single point in time were all and any abuse simply stopped. We know it didn’t. It continued and it was allowed to continue through either neglect or complicity. The omertà endured.
Celtics tactics of self-preservation have evolved and been adapted over the years and within the past decade phrases like “separate and distinct” began to appear in relation to Celtic FC and the Celtic Boys Club. These days “separate entity” appears to be the preferred parlance. The Scottish media also gives Celtic the (from what i can see) unique courtesy of attaching the abuse to the Boys Club. And no doubt as part of this ongoing legal think-tank came the decision to change the name of Celtic Boys Club to St Patrick’s Sports Academy. A less than subtle attempt to distance the name Celtic from the scandal.
Responsibility, what that means and what should come with it is an area of debate (at least amongst the public that aware of this scandal). The stock defence from Celtic-minded detractors is that the victims don’t want the subject raised, whilst what they really mean is that they and Celtic would prefer that the subject wasn’t discussed. Unfortunately for them this has proven to be untrue with many victims stepping forward and demanding that Celtic accept responsibility and show some form of long overdue contrition.
Without a doubt the coverage of the scandal in the Scottish press has been bizarre. A story of its magnitude and severity, relating to an institution of Celtics standing, should be front page billing. The threads, lose ends, cast of famous and well-known characters involved, almost every connotation lends itself to months of debate and speculation across on any platform. And yet that hasn’t happened. The why is perhaps more obvious; simply, many key people don’t want Celtics reputation damaged, don’t want their chosen legal strategy undermined and for the good of the club they want any financial impact to be kept to a minimum. Against that the victims requests are secondary.
We’ve seen a slightly change in tact recently with some cheerleaders asking for Celtic to say sorry, but at pains to assure the public there is no associated blame. A weak but perhaps necessary concession to save face considering the rate at which evidence is accruing. Let’s be honest the likes of Graham Spiers, James Dorman MSP, John Mason MSP only want the best for Celtic and this has been a proven part of their operating model for many years. Unfortunately for them the family of Andrew Gray are determined and relentless in their demands for answers; where wrong-doing has occurred then they want it out in the open where it can be judged. But this is not what Celtic’s politicians and press men want, so they ignore the Gray family. Or they down-play their pleas. The SNPs Justice Secretary and vocal Celtic fan Humza Yousaf has chosen to ignore the Gray family all together, presumably because he realises how difficult it could make his nice and easy life. Spiers and Dornan had eventually contacted them (more through the uncomfortable fact they could ignore them no longer) and quickly realised that their determination would not be intimidated or manipulated, to the extent that they ended up in less than pleasant public spats with them – so much for sensitivity and meeting the needs of the victims?
And what the victims want may vary widely. Some just want it over with. Some just want to hear sorry. Some expect Celtic to compensate for a life damaged, knocked off course or ruined. Some expect Celtic’s part and actions to be held to a greater scrutiny and for the natural consequences to follow. The unacceptable length of time that has passed means that many of the victims are no longer with us and their wishes gone with them. They’ll never know what their justice, if any, looks like.
We know how Dornan operates and who he serves. Would we be surprised if Dornan selectively championed someone who backed his apology-without-blame stance? And then supply with the attention and devotion and prominence that the Gray family had been publicly denied from him? I say prominence because meetings with the SFA and meetings with selected MSPs and journalists to forge strategies carries a degree of responsibility, and if that process then deliberately refuses to involve all victims, or represent the views of all, then it’s slightly disingenuous. There’s been enough games played already in this cover-up to be vigilant and cynical.
Also unfortunate for Celtic and the SFA, and for Celtic fans wishing this would just disappear, is that fact that the Penn State scandal happened. Across the pond the police acted decisively. The governing bodies acted, strongly and assertively. Penn State was dealt heavy punishments and fines as a consequence. The facts of the scandal are contained in this link.
The parallels with Celtic FC are abundant and eerily similar. Why this isn’t use as a topic or starter for discussions and as a model to follow falls into the same bizarre bucket as the rest of the coverage. Perhaps had Celtic and the SFA acted sooner then it could be dismissed. But they didn’t. And now the general public rightfully expect any club found guilty of similar conduct to Penn State to face the similar sanctions. The Scottish press and governing bodies have failed and are failing victims (and the public) miserably in this. Only recently have a few started taking this on. Perhaps some decent journalists in England or the US could join the dots and have the debate that Scotland refuses to have?
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Excellent post mate.
 
jf1960 said:
Well Done I've just put a thread on this also but didn't know how to put a link up Thanks Andrew Gray's mum just put this on Twitter
[B]Andrew Grays Mum[/B]‏ @[B]HeleneG46816352[/B] 8m8 minutes ago
More
This gets worse each day. It seems that an MP asked for an inquiry into abuse at Celtic in 2012 Pls RT & Share someone outside of Scotland needs to help us. This has been covered up for far too long! We deserve the truth SFA/SPL Letters: Neil Doncaster.
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https://twitter.com/HeleneG46816352
 
jf1960 said:
It’s the twenty sixth of May, 2019. The weather’s sunny but changeable. The 2018/2019 football season in Scotland has just ended. Two days ago Theresa May resigned as Prime Minister. Celtic football club took that opportunity to release a statement on their former employee and kit-man Jim McCafferty having been convicted of offences against children. That conviction took place 10 days previous.
Celtics statement expressed regret and sorrow but never expressed any apologises. Presumably because to do so would be to accept some responsibility, in both the legal and moral senses. And when responsibility is applied to actions then come consequences. And when crimes are involved the consequences should balance. It’s called justice.
Celtics adopted legal stance from the day that abuse was uncovered has been to ignore the issue, to hide it and to consistently accept no responsibility. That moment and that legal stance didn’t coincide with a single point in time were all and any abuse simply stopped. We know it didn’t. It continued and it was allowed to continue through either neglect or complicity. The omertà endured.
Celtics tactics of self-preservation have evolved and been adapted over the years and within the past decade phrases like “separate and distinct” began to appear in relation to Celtic FC and the Celtic Boys Club. These days “separate entity” appears to be the preferred parlance. The Scottish media also gives Celtic the (from what i can see) unique courtesy of attaching the abuse to the Boys Club. And no doubt as part of this ongoing legal think-tank came the decision to change the name of Celtic Boys Club to St Patrick’s Sports Academy. A less than subtle attempt to distance the name Celtic from the scandal.
Responsibility, what that means and what should come with it is an area of debate (at least amongst the public that aware of this scandal). The stock defence from Celtic-minded detractors is that the victims don’t want the subject raised, whilst what they really mean is that they and Celtic would prefer that the subject wasn’t discussed. Unfortunately for them this has proven to be untrue with many victims stepping forward and demanding that Celtic accept responsibility and show some form of long overdue contrition.
Without a doubt the coverage of the scandal in the Scottish press has been bizarre. A story of its magnitude and severity, relating to an institution of Celtics standing, should be front page billing. The threads, lose ends, cast of famous and well-known characters involved, almost every connotation lends itself to months of debate and speculation across on any platform. And yet that hasn’t happened. The why is perhaps more obvious; simply, many key people don’t want Celtics reputation damaged, don’t want their chosen legal strategy undermined and for the good of the club they want any financial impact to be kept to a minimum. Against that the victims requests are secondary.
We’ve seen a slightly change in tact recently with some cheerleaders asking for Celtic to say sorry, but at pains to assure the public there is no associated blame. A weak but perhaps necessary concession to save face considering the rate at which evidence is accruing. Let’s be honest the likes of Graham Spiers, James Dorman MSP, John Mason MSP only want the best for Celtic and this has been a proven part of their operating model for many years. Unfortunately for them the family of Andrew Gray are determined and relentless in their demands for answers; where wrong-doing has occurred then they want it out in the open where it can be judged. But this is not what Celtic’s politicians and press men want, so they ignore the Gray family. Or they down-play their pleas. The SNPs Justice Secretary and vocal Celtic fan Humza Yousaf has chosen to ignore the Gray family all together, presumably because he realises how difficult it could make his nice and easy life. Spiers and Dornan had eventually contacted them (more through the uncomfortable fact they could ignore them no longer) and quickly realised that their determination would not be intimidated or manipulated, to the extent that they ended up in less than pleasant public spats with them – so much for sensitivity and meeting the needs of the victims?
And what the victims want may vary widely. Some just want it over with. Some just want to hear sorry. Some expect Celtic to compensate for a life damaged, knocked off course or ruined. Some expect Celtic’s part and actions to be held to a greater scrutiny and for the natural consequences to follow. The unacceptable length of time that has passed means that many of the victims are no longer with us and their wishes gone with them. They’ll never know what their justice, if any, looks like.
We know how Dornan operates and who he serves. Would we be surprised if Dornan selectively championed someone who backed his apology-without-blame stance? And then supply with the attention and devotion and prominence that the Gray family had been publicly denied from him? I say prominence because meetings with the SFA and meetings with selected MSPs and journalists to forge strategies carries a degree of responsibility, and if that process then deliberately refuses to involve all victims, or represent the views of all, then it’s slightly disingenuous. There’s been enough games played already in this cover-up to be vigilant and cynical.
Also unfortunate for Celtic and the SFA, and for Celtic fans wishing this would just disappear, is that fact that the Penn State scandal happened. Across the pond the police acted decisively. The governing bodies acted, strongly and assertively. Penn State was dealt heavy punishments and fines as a consequence. The facts of the scandal are contained in this link.
The parallels with Celtic FC are abundant and eerily similar. Why this isn’t use as a topic or starter for discussions and as a model to follow falls into the same bizarre bucket as the rest of the coverage. Perhaps had Celtic and the SFA acted sooner then it could be dismissed. But they didn’t. And now the general public rightfully expect any club found guilty of similar conduct to Penn State to face the similar sanctions. The Scottish press and governing bodies have failed and are failing victims (and the public) miserably in this. Only recently have a few started taking this on. Perhaps some decent journalists in England or the US could join the dots and have the debate that Scotland refuses to have?
Click to expand...
What a post mate,just says it all.
 
jexx said:
If ever a public inquiry was justified, that time has come. Doncaster (as if we didn't know), you facilitated this with your decision to sweep it under the carpet. You sir are guilty and should be immediately removed from anything to do with Scottish Football.
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Doncaster is big Pete's mate they are all in the cover up together it's disgusting, they should all be up on charges justice is not being done because of them and many more they are up to their necks in it , they know it , we know it as well, it is indeed criminal.
 
The recruitment procedure at the top of the game in Scotland needs to be put under the spotlight.
There seems to be a recurring theme of total ignorance and denial to the crimes committed at Parkhead .
Also the subsequent cover up .
Everyone of them cannot be so blind .The scale of criminality is in the public domain.
No research needed it has been on the front pages of the tabloids at various times over the last three decades .
If anyone is ignoring these facts they are ignoring them for a reason .

What is that reason ? .
The only way to stop this happening again .
Is to find out how it happened .
Where it happened .How many knew and suspected it was happening .
They all must put their hands up and admit their failings.
This is abused children. We are talking about .It must stop now
No obscuring the facts .No being clever and pointing fingers and blaming fans .
This cancer must be cut out of our society and as it stands .
The leaders of our game and the media are dancing around these facts
 
This is the worst story of child sexual abuse, collusion and corruption from the countries governing bodies to benefit one sports team in global history.

It is a very sad day when you are not surprised by this, I can't be the only one who is becoming totally desensitised with the information at hand. It is groundhog day with more information rolling on to the next without what should be the shock of horrendous crimes. And sadly no authorities stepping in to do their duty.
I long for the day it is all over and the perpetrators, enablers and those with the clout to have done something but chose not to are jailed and pilloried for their actions and non-actions.

There must be more families willing to come out and say enough is enough, and give the Gray family assistance to gain justice. They are the ones who can break this wall of silence down.
 
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For all this talk of Twitter bans, how the fu.ck can someone have the Twitter name of "ira19162019"?

This is from one of the responses to that link above.
 
jf1960 said:
Celtics adopted legal stance from the day that abuse was uncovered has been to ignore the issue, to hide it and to consistently accept no responsibility.
Click to expand...

Except they did involve CFC lawyers, certainly on one occasion if reports are accurate. Which in itself could be damning evidence of CFC involvement, a cover-up and who knew.

If there are NDAs as reported, they would have involved lawyers. CFC lawyers for sure. The existence or not of NDAs is something for the future. But there is other evidence of lawyer involvement going way back. At least one that I am aware of:

John McCluskey is quoted as saying ""I spoke to Tommy Burns about it instead. He got me to make a statement to Fergus McCann who asked me to make a statement to their lawyers."

If true, the CFC lawyers at that time would have information to prove 1) abuse allegations 2) CFC's involvement and ownership of the problem 3) whatever happened (or didn't happen) next.

Which raises the questions:
Who were the CFC lawyers at that time? What evidence are they holding? How many other similar complaints did they handle?
And the big one - Why were they handling a claim involving a "separate entity"?
 
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jf1960 said:
It’s the twenty sixth of May, 2019. The weather’s sunny but changeable. The 2018/2019 football season in Scotland has just ended. Two days ago Theresa May resigned as Prime Minister. Celtic football club took that opportunity to release a statement on their former employee and kit-man Jim McCafferty having been convicted of offences against children. That conviction took place 10 days previous.
Click to expand...

Link to article ;)

https://uppingtheoutput.home.blog/2019/05/26/cynicism-and-consequences/
 
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imvaison said:
Maybe the slug Reagan wasn’t as stupid as he looks. He got out knowing what was lurking - but he was there long enough and surely will be called back to answer some questions regarding the “open secret”.
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Regarding Reagan, he left under a cloud after a spat with Lawell did he not?
 
Great post OP-Keep digging, and show that disgusting club up for what it is. The list of potential people involved in the cover up just grows and grows.
 
They are all interconnected.

The Japanese, Doncaster and Regan (before he went) knew each other from uni and that is how they two and the Japanese wormed their way into the top positions of our fitbaw up here.

It will continue to happen and they will get more powerful and they will also get their lackeys in surpassing petrie as he's on borrowed time and when the Japanese will push before shove him away thats when another will move in.
 
Le Big Bear Bum said:
Except they did involve CFC lawyers, certainly on one occasion if reports are accurate. Which in itself could be damning evidence of CFC involvement, a cover-up and who knew.

If there are NDAs as reported, they would have involved lawyers. CFC lawyers for sure. The existence or not of NDAs is something for the future. But there is other evidence of lawyer involvement going way back. At least one that I am aware of:

John McCluskey is quoted as saying ""I spoke to Tommy Burns about it instead. He got me to make a statement to Fergus McCann who asked me to make a statement to their lawyers."

If true, the CFC lawyers at that time would have information to prove 1) abuse allegations 2) CFC's involvement and ownership of the problem 3) whatever happened (or didn't happen) next.

Which raises the questions:
Who were the CFC lawyers at that time? What evidence are they holding? How many other similar complaints did they handle?
And the big one - Why were they handling a claim involving a "separate entity"?
Click to expand...

Do CFC and the SPFL not share the same lawyers ?
 
alexg123 said:
With the cover - ups and non action and poor excuses and non apologies to victims one can only wonder just how big this paedo ring has been . Has it been so big within the UK and perhaps Ireland or in the Cairney case does it even involve the USA ? Are there people of so called high standing in places of Government run establishments or in the entertainment world that could be involved in all this ? because there seems to be too much hush hush antics to protect the “ Good name of CFC “:rolleyes: or is it also to protect the “ Good name " of others in the public eye who have also been part of the disgusting paedo ring and are using their influence to try and keep it all low profile ? because the lack of apologies and acknowledgements to the victims is totally unbelievable from the football authorities and the press as a whole . I wish Mr. McGuire every success in winning the case for the victims but I cannot help feeling there is much much more to be discovered from the Stadium of Shame .
Click to expand...

I'll say what I've said from the 1990s.

If what had happened at the cesspit had taken place at Ibrox instead, the same politicians and scum press, who have kept schtum, would have been agitating to get our club shut down.

Imagine vermin like Leckie and Spiers moralising to us about songs, when almost certainly they knew what was happening at the scum hut and they said nothing.

That other piece of excrement, Waddell, let the cat out of the bag when he spoke about all the anecdotes he had heard about the bhoys club. A journalist who doesn't want to act on, investigate all these sinister anecdotes? Waddell sums up Scottish journalists to perfection.

They are to journalistic professionalism and integrity what Myra Hyndley was to babysitting.

They are the scum of the earth.
 
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