Charlotte Fakes

Guess it's time to play Dylanger's FF Bingo again.......

The entire episode stank from beginning to end, doubt we'll ever find out the entire truth.
 
Scrubs UK said:
No one mentioned Murray yet? None of this happens without him pointing a loaded gun towards us.

None of it.
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Anyone who heard the witness Ross Bryan, a fund manager for Ticketus at theCraig Whyte trial knows that Murray knew exactly what was happening when Whyte was buying the club and the involvement of Ticketus. As a support we have been very quiet about this since the trial.

Found a Daily Record article on it (sorry it's the DR)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ticketus-wanted-involvement-craig-whytes-10442881
 
deedle said:
Everything is down to Murray. He could have sold the club at a much earlier stage, avoided EBTs and emerged with some semblance of credibility.

Instead, he plunged us into the mire.

One of the details released by Charlotte Fakes was that Whyte and Irvine had co-operated as far back as 2009. Just who would put these two together?


There is no doubt that people connected to Celtic could see what was going to unfold and exploited it to the max. A post on a Celtic m/board in 2010 alluded to the 'hidden contracts' issue - something we are asked to believe emerged only in late February 2012.

Another Celtic poster argued that Murray's financial empire was teetering on the brink yet this was dismissed out of hand.

There was nothing comparable on our side. Even when Mark Daly revealed that Craig Whyte had received a directorship ban, the overwhelming reaction on this and other m/boards was that it was simply another example of BBC bias. In reality, this was maybe our final opportunity to rescue something from the debacle.

We have to learn the lesson that we have been outclassed in the propaganda war and get our act together.
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Agree totally with your point.

We were/are a football club in the most simplistic interpretation of that term, despite all of our protestations to being more.
We have found ourselves at the forefront of a cultural struggle, where politics, political machinations and politically motivated people have targeted our destruction as one of their community political imperatives.

However, Murray wasn't an island.
His follies and his errors allowed him open to pressures and made him vulnerable to outside influences where powerful people hostile to our club could possibly use this weakness to target our club with malicious intent, using Murray's inability to defend us to that particular advantage.

Murray was caught in a maelstrom that he simply could not control and was swept along with only his own personal survival as a consideration, no matter how many others were condemned to lose out.

I agree that our support were never ready for the assault upon the club.
After all, we are mostly just guys interested in supporting a football team that we enjoy watching for the football, and there it ends.
Even today we mostly don't understand that our opposite numbers see the football as a by-product of the more important raison detre of the existence of their own club.
This is surely a historical inheritance.

The very worst thing that we do, and you can evidence it on this thread itself, is that we totally underestimate them and their determination to continue this struggle against us, and the sophistication of their methods to bring their hatred to bear.

Outclassed indeed.
 
bilkobear said:
Agree totally with your point.

We were/are a football club in the most simplistic interpretation of that term, despite all of our protestations to being more.
We have found ourselves at the forefront of a cultural struggle, where politics, political machinations and politically motivated people have targeted our destruction as one of their community political imperatives.

However, Murray wasn't an island.
His follies and his errors allowed him open to pressures and made him vulnerable to outside influences where powerful people hostile to our club could possibly use this weakness to target our club with malicious intent, using Murray's inability to defend us to that particular advantage.

Murray was caught in a maelstrom that he simply could not control and was swept along with only his own personal survival as a consideration, no matter how many others were condemned to lose out.

I agree that our support were never ready for the assault upon the club.
After all, we are mostly just guys interested in supporting a football team that we enjoy watching for the football, and there it ends.
Even today we mostly don't understand that our opposite numbers see the football as a by-product of the more important raison detre of the existence of their own club.
This is surely a historical inheritance.

The very worst thing that we do, and you can evidence it on this thread itself, is that we totally underestimate them and their determination to continue this struggle against us, and the sophistication of their methods to bring their hatred to bear.

Outclassed indeed.
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Completely agree.
 
Some day we'll find out who are the main movers behind that scam.

By the way, the t@ig has some pull in this land,
 
Rangerista said:
Just another curious decision from the PF's office regarding the bizarre cast of characters involved in the "events" at our club. Another wee reminder for all of us that justice is the last outcome we'll see after the last five years.
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Glasgow PF Office has been long discredited where anything sectarian or Rangers related are concerned. Its only obsessions on these particular issues are perceived anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism offences. Rangers supporters, however, can be the victims of the most brutal violent assaults, murder even, and the Glasgow PF Office, just like the Glasgow based media, will rarely, if ever, arrive at the obvious religious and sectarian motive for such attacks. Such horrific events are sanitised and dismissed as the now customary and predictable " football related incidents " or " due to football rivalry" excuses when Protestants are maimed or scarred. " We've witnessed a two tier and discriminatory judicial system for quite some time now in the West of Scotland.
 
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muttley said:
Glasgow PF Office has been long discredited where anything sectarian or Rangers related are concerned. Its only obsessions on these particular issues are perceived anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism offences. Rangers supporters, however, can be the victims of the most brutal violent assaults, murder even, and the Glasgow PF Office will rarely, if ever, arrive at the obvious religious and sectarian motive for such attacks. We've witnessed a two tier and discriminatory judicial system for quite some time now in the West of Scotland.
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Absolutely. Thing is, they are there to serve the public, not 31% of it.
 
ParagonofVirtue said:
The whole feckin thing is a sham!

I mean, you have Whyte celebrating with Celtic fans after that sham of a trial , yet you still have lots wondering what happened there and who was behind it all!!!

Then those with a wee bit of savvy about them would have clocked one Celtic fan in particular posing with Whyte outside the court in the pics that made the press and will know that was the biggest “get it right up ye’s” you’ll ever see and “there’s feck all ye’s can dae about it noo” ever!
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Poor show mate. Why not say who it is. Going on about some guy but not saying who or how you know him when asked. Why even post this?
 
Superrangers said:
We do have to sort our communications and engagement strategy out 100% but the attack on the club were concerted and from those with mentally challenged sympathies, from John Reid and Lloyds Bank to HMRC and others.
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I don't buy into this version of events.

HMRC would have pursued Murray regardless. (Arsenal had paid up several years before.)

Reid would have known about Murray's problems but he was more concerned with referees.

There are numerous stories out there about how ruthless banks like Lloyds were.


What might be interesting is how the RTC blogger got hold of the HMRC data. It was largely irrelevant in any practical sense but it gave this guy credibility in that he could claim he knew what was going on.

When the RTC blogger started no-one paid too much attention. After a while, though, the site took off. It was at this stage I reckon there was significant input from one particular football club and members of the press.
 
No idea if this is what Paragon of Virtue is getting at but here's one of the pictures with Celtic fans (said be taken during a lunch break at the trial).

JS119996036.jpg


...get any lightbulbs going off ?

Names on this link (sorry, Daily Record) -

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/beaming-craig-whyte-poses-picture-10450276
...left is Mick Brady, right is Farrell McGovern.
 
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muttley said:
Glasgow PF Office has been long discredited where anything sectarian or Rangers related are concerned. Its only obsessions on these particular issues are perceived anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism offences. Rangers supporters, however, can be the victims of the most brutal violent assaults, murder even, and the Glasgow PF Office, just like the Glasgow based media, will rarely, if ever, arrive at the obvious religious and sectarian motive for such attacks. Such horrific events are sanitised and dismissed as the now customary and predictable " football related incidents " or " due to football rivalry" excuses when Protestants are maimed or scarred. " We've witnessed a two tier and discriminatory judicial system for quite some time now in the West of Scotland.
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How can this be challenged?
 
deedle said:
I don't buy into this version of events.

HMRC would have pursued Murray regardless. (Arsenal had paid up several years before.)

Reid would have known about Murray's problems but he was more concerned with referees.

There are numerous stories out there about how ruthless banks like Lloyds were.


What might be interesting is how the RTC blogger got hold of the HMRC data. It was largely irrelevant in any practical sense but it gave this guy credibility in that he could claim he knew what was going on.

When the RTC blogger started no-one paid too much attention. After a while, though, the site took off. It was at this stage I reckon there was significant input from one particular football club and members of the press.
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Why were Arsenal cut a deal but Rangers not?
Why were Rangers used as a test case and not some of the other clubs they are now seemingly going after?

As you say, stuff about the websites is interesting and the potential involvement of a club, sinister.

I am not saying all the parts are perfectly aligned but I feel certain parts are and that Celtc fans in positions of power have tried to harm Rangers.
 
Superrangers said:
Why were Arsenal cut a deal but Rangers not?
Why were Rangers used as a test case and not some of the other clubs they are now seemingly going after?

As you say, stuff about the websites is interesting and the potential involvement of a club, sinister.

I am not saying all the parts are perfectly aligned but I feel certain parts are and that Celtc fans in positions of power have tried to harm Rangers.
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Arsenal weren't cut a deal, as far as is known publicly. They had only used EBTs for a short time (they also had another tax avoidance scheme which they ditched).

Rangers' scheme seems to have began before the others and was far more extensive.

There was also a police raid on Ibrox in 2008 which produced information handed to HMRC.

By the time the FTTT began penalty payments and interest would have been added.
 
deedle said:
Arsenal weren't cut a deal, as far as is known publicly. They had only used EBTs for a short time (they also had another tax avoidance scheme which they ditched).

Rangers' scheme seems to have began before the others and was far more extensive.

There was also a police raid on Ibrox in 2008 which produced information handed to HMRC.

By the time the FTTT began penalty payments and interest would have been added.
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Wasn’t aware of the raid in 2008, although I do recall bitter spew rattling on a good number of years ago on snyde which was the first I heard of it. Must have been 7 or 8 years ago, definitely not 2012 on since.
 
muttley said:
This, yet another typical example of Glasgow PF Office, where a Rangers fan is brutally attacked and stabbed by one of that lot. No religious or sectarian motive, apparently. ? The Sheriff presiding even refers to the the thug jailed as having a prior " football related " conviction.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/195951
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That's an outrageous sentence and I'd say the same if it had been a Bear doing the stabbing. I wonder if this thug has faced the courts again since he literally got out of jail?
 
bilkobear said:
The problem with this entire matter is that it is so multifaceted, broken, complicated and disconnected.

Yet alarmingly if we consider and think about it, we cannot help but see a common thread running from the days of John Reid and his pronouncements about Scottish football, to remarks from inside Celtc Park about nailing Rangers to the floor, to the off field concerted internet campaign that saw even University lecturers of a certain culture contributing to a community project to attack, undermine and destabilise Rangers Football Club.

This was further exacerbated by the press and media who seemed geared up to see the club isolated and given the most unsympathetic reporting possible, whilst politicians and social commentators saw a chance to use the situation to make the club both socially toxic and abandoned from any political support, notwithstanding that the club itself was an integral and vibrant part of Scottish heritage and society!

All this at a time, when those placed in positions of responsibility and power in the games own institutions, were demonstrably antipathetic at best and probably hostile towards both the club and the community who have traditionally supported it.

Now until we have a proper investigation into all of the elements regarding this supposed perfect storm, we will always be condemned into accepting it was nothing more than a set of unrelated circumstances that came together without any guidance or design.
Perhaps it was so, but it is difficult to shake off the feeling that there was something underhand behind it at its very core.
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We had Lord Carloway involved in Rangers-related issues when he tried to impose an illegal transfer ban on our club, sat on the Court of Session HMRC panel, and he unilaterally directed in Court that a chant by some Rangers fans was " racist ". ? We've also witnessed Whyte walk free from a Scottish Court. Why does anyone think we as a club or support will receive justice in Scotland ?
 
Taki said:
Green and white. 'Glasgow's green and white' - the billboard outside the Piggery from 2012 to circa 2014.

You couldn't write it.

I've never believed Whyte woke up one day and decided to bury us or that Green was watching the news (!) and decided to get involved. The whole thing stank and still does.
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Add in signing Celik and the NOMAD called Ireland.

Coincidence right enough.
 
I'd think the case was dropped because Whyte didn't want to make any complaint of his messages being hacked and leaked.
There's no point in going to court unless he does.
 
This seems to be what the police and courts do in Scotland with anything to do with the yahoos. They get charged and then it takes ages to get to court and by the time it gets there most people have forgotten what it is about and the courts can hand down the lightest possible decision. It Stinks.
 
If the roles were reversed and it had happened to the Schum and it was a Rangers man who hacked the emails he would be getting 5-10 with a minimum of 2 years in the clink sued, assets sold and left bankrupt.
 
weebeara said:
Dave King should ask for it back. He bought it, handed it over to the police and now there is no prosecution, so it's his surely. We could make a fortune from the film.

Can anyone tell me what Stevenson does for a living? (if anything)
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That’s like saying I have a bag of oranges and you steal them. Sell them to Joe Bloggs who goes to the Police and tells them I bought these from weebeara who stole them from RuchazieBlue.

Police investigate and PF says no prosecution.

Now who gets them back, me the rightful owner, or Joe Bloggs who bought the stolen goods.

Hope DK kept a copy and used it/uses it when he has too. Bet there is some juicy information contained in them. I also bet DK has a good idea what went on and who was involved. Maybe he will enlighten us all someday.

Stevenson I have no idea what he does but he appears to be a rancid cuhnt.

We all slept and let this happen, let the mhanks control things, the mhankie run media and politicians have been complicit also.

It’s not a time to forgive and forget, never will be, and we should do unto those who did unto us.

We should all get behind Papasmurf and anyone else that has good ideas to take back control again from rancid cuhnts.

Restrict them, control them, turn the screw every day and if you have the opportunity to get rid of rancid cuhnts in politics or media then we should take the opportunity.
 
If
bouncybouncy said:
I'd think the case was dropped because Whyte didn't want to make any complaint of his messages being hacked and leaked.
There's no point in going to court unless he does.
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I send you an email and it gets hacked, surely both of us are victims?
So Whyte could have been irrelevant in this regard, had a determined prosecution been pursued.
 
The way that the Court case against Whyte was presented should not be forgotten.

Fraud cases are notoriously difficult to prove to a jury, consisting of common laymen and women. Most of the evidence is complicated and goes way over their head, so it is difficult to prove that a crime has been committed, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The case against Whyte should have been relatively simple to prove, compared to most fraud cases, but it was clear that the PF chose to make the trial far more complex than it needed to be.

The PF either made a huge judgement error in deciding how to present the case and lead evidence, or made a decision to deliberately present the case in a manner which was unlikely to gain a guilty verdict.
 
Billiericky said:
Is it possible, under the freedom of information act, to get access to the evidence the PF has for cases that are pursued? Is this ever in the public domain?
If yes, can you get access to evidence that the PF is not willing to pursue? Can anyone see this evidence?
Also, who referees the PFs decisions....are they accountable to anyone?

I know PFs are very powerful but surely Joe Public must have some protection, some legal means to question very questionable decisions made by those who are charged with working in the public interest? Surely? Scots Law cannot be seen to be corrupt...can it?
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There was a lot of people lost a helluva lot of money due to what happened fraud on a very high scale
working class as well
 
Superrangers said:
True, we live in London and I'm fed up with long commutes, long hours and everything being dear as fûck, so we spoke semi-seriously about moving back to Scotland and as good as it would be to get to more games, the state of Scotland and the Nazi-poet dominance makes it a no.
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I always thought we'd move back to Scotland at some point. The wife (and not so small now) kids loved it, when we were up the road, but now, I have no intentions of moving back. Still look forward to getting up for the football and seeing friends, that will won't change, but as for moving back, I just don't have the appetite for it at the moment. Politically and socially like you say, the country is a mess.
 
Prosecutors state Whyte took out a £24million loan from Ticketus against three years of season ticket sales to help fund the May 2011 takeover.

Bryan had told the court on Tuesday that when the deal hadn’t closed after Christmas 2010, the firm were “keen” to make sure Murray knew they were involved or that a financial institution was involved.

The court heard that at a Ticketus meeting in March 2011, the company wanted Whyte to tell Murray that a third party was involved and that Whyte agreed he would.

Well going by this, ticketus deserved all they got!
 
bouncybouncy said:
Did anybody else complain to the police that their accounts were hacked ?
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The other people involved in email correspondence with Whyte in many cases may not have known they were victims of that hack, until the police informed them, that is if the police ever bothered to pursue this line of inquiry.
I get the impression it isn't lack of evidence that has undermined this prosecution, but rather a lack of appetite.
 
Disco Deejay said:
The way that the Court case against Whyte was presented should not be forgotten.

Fraud cases are notoriously difficult to prove to a jury, consisting of common laymen and women. Most of the evidence is complicated and goes way over their head, so it is difficult to prove that a crime has been committed, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The case against Whyte should have been relatively simple to prove, compared to most fraud cases, but it was clear that the PF chose to make the trial far more complex than it needed to be.

The PF either made a huge judgement error in deciding how to present the case and lead evidence, or made a decision to deliberately present the case in a manner which was unlikely to gain a guilty verdict.
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The case would be prepared under the guidance of the Crown Office.
 
BobbyShearer said:
I might be going against the grain here but (inadvertently and by no means willingly) CF turned out to be a huge source of information on the whole scheme.

Anything that Toxic Jack goes into a full scale panic about is undoubtedly useful to us.
I think that the whole leaking of documents and recordings ultimately helped to convince people that the whole club had been rotten to the core for a long time and there was no such thing as someone who "didn't know any better"

The enemy of your enemy and all that......
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The negative, however, is that they were deemed inadmissible Whyte's trial because of how they had been obtained. There was more than enough evidence to convict Whyte about 30 times over, had the Crown been allowed to present it in court.
 
Why, oh Why do we keep on moaning about this shit infested Republican hell hole of a Country we live in called Scotland. The writing has been on the wall since the Sixties, those of us that are not of a Republican mind sit on our arses, and expect others to do things for US, leading to an Own Goal. Take a look at Politics, Unions, Judiciary, Local Government, and Schools, all infested at the higher levels, and Why! We have allowed them because of laziness, once you allow Scum to the Top you will never get a free minded person back as they infest it with THEIR OWN. The only chink of light was with the Tories getting some seats in the last Election, but still pissing against the wind.
 
Disco Deejay said:
The way that the Court case against Whyte was presented should not be forgotten.

Fraud cases are notoriously difficult to prove to a jury, consisting of common laymen and women. Most of the evidence is complicated and goes way over their head, so it is difficult to prove that a crime has been committed, beyond all reasonable doubt.

The case against Whyte should have been relatively simple to prove, compared to most fraud cases, but it was clear that the PF chose to make the trial far more complex than it needed to be.

The PF either made a huge judgement error in deciding how to present the case and lead evidence, or made a decision to deliberately present the case in a manner which was unlikely to gain a guilty verdict.
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Have had dealings with the PF office and would say major incompetent organisation.

Some decent hard working individuals but mostly an inferior organisation. No wonder crooks get off.

They go for the easy approach and hope you plead guilty. If you fight it and have decent lawyers your likely to walk away without a conviction.
 
ParagonofVirtue said:
Actually it would.

Let’s just say he wasn’t some daft mentally challenged who had staggered over from the Whistling Kirk to have a wee huddle and a song and dance with Whyte.

As has been said there is feck all we can do about it now. And we have to move on! Isn’t that what we’ve been told to accept?
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So there is a photo and you say we were shafted but you don't want to say much about it. What was the point of bringing it up. I take it you aren't a Rangers fan??????????????
 
The charlotte fakes hacker actually did us a favour intended or not.

The second half of 2013 was fascinating as the hacked info was drip fed onto Twitter.A lot of the info was used by guys like the sons of struth to help get the truth out and galvanise the support into taking action.

It also let everybody see through the recordings Whyte had made that Green,Ahmad & Stockbridge were working in cahoots with Whyte prior to the NewCo route happening.

You then had in the lead up to the 2013 December AGM Jack Irving & Mediahouse infesting FF trying to fight the sp!v PR war.

Merlin/McMurdo and logins like 'Applepine' were constantly on here during that period.Im sure auld Buster caught out a good few of them.:D
 
SasaPapacLoyal54 said:
The duff and phelps guys are allegedly suing the police service for millions over their handling of the whyte case.

The whole thing was a shambles.
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It always astonished me that Whytes "Advisors" paid BDO 24 Million Smackeroonies when they threatened to sue them for "Fraud". Yet Whyte got off. PS: Why were the Jury not asked, if they had any leanings towards The Youknow Whos?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-liquidators-claw-back-24m-4646726
 
Hurt then,still hurt now,we take 250,000 to a European final,then sit back like field mice while the world and it's dug rip us a "new one ".
 
jicrw said:
It always astonished me that Whytes "Advisors" paid BDO 24 Million Smackeroonies when they threatened to sue them for "Fraud". Yet Whyte got off. PS: Why were the Jury not asked, if they had any leanings towards The Youknow Whos?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-liquidators-claw-back-24m-4646726
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Astonishing that this fact did not lead to an open goal for the PF.

Why did they pay? Because they knew of their own part in the fraud and by this act admitted it.
 
bilkobear said:
Agree totally with your point.

We were/are a football club in the most simplistic interpretation of that term, despite all of our protestations to being more.
We have found ourselves at the forefront of a cultural struggle, where politics, political machinations and politically motivated people have targeted our destruction as one of their community political imperatives.

However, Murray wasn't an island.
His follies and his errors allowed him open to pressures and made him vulnerable to outside influences where powerful people hostile to our club could possibly use this weakness to target our club with malicious intent, using Murray's inability to defend us to that particular advantage.

Murray was caught in a maelstrom that he simply could not control and was swept along with only his own personal survival as a consideration, no matter how many others were condemned to lose out.

I agree that our support were never ready for the assault upon the club.
After all, we are mostly just guys interested in supporting a football team that we enjoy watching for the football, and there it ends.
Even today we mostly don't understand that our opposite numbers see the football as a by-product of the more important raison detre of the existence of their own club.
This is surely a historical inheritance.

The very worst thing that we do, and you can evidence it on this thread itself, is that we totally underestimate them and their determination to continue this struggle against us, and the sophistication of their methods to bring their hatred to bear.

Outclassed indeed.
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No more need be said.
 
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