Club 1872 Blog – What We’ve Got Here Is, Failure To Communicate

[daven37]

I'm sick of the whole thing mate. Every day we have this going on and it's the same arguments in multiple threads.

I'm just a guy who is interested in the football and I'm not onside with anyone. At least we can't blame the SMSM for this, there's enough material on here from Rangers fans to keep them going for a long time.

This has now became politics and should be moved to the lounge under one thread. Let the bear pit get back to what it's about, football on the pitch and other information that regards travel or tickets in general.

Am with you mate.

All I want to see and talk about is the ball flying into the opposition net and Rangers fans and players celebrating goals and winning.

As much as I am sure 99% on here want the above also - of course there are the few timposters who are hiding among us - there are true posters on here with agendas and I say that without any disrespect to anyone.

Whether these posters are justified with their agendas or not - I can't keep up. I don't have the patience or the intelligence for it. I really wish we could stop the public bickering. Maybe we should all head to an agreed venue and have the debate there.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Bassey?
Money we’ve spent?

Where did that info come from?

I’m playing devils advocate here mate. I think all to often be just believe what we want to believe depending on what side of the fence we jump to. I think there prob dramatisation and inaccuracies on both sides.

My genuine thoughts….
we’re much better than the club are making out to be. (Not to say we’re flowing in the cash but I think we are probably in a heathy state. Slightly more heathy than our investment in the playing squad would suggest).

Why….
had we not had a run to the EL final, brought in upwards of £50m from player sales (if reports are true) and never made the CL group stages and the rise in ticket costs that come with it. All of which is prob safe to say was not expected, forecasted/budgeted for - it must’ve been catastrophic if we never achieved the above.

Similarly….
If the board did budget for all of the above then it’s absolute negligence as why would they have budgeted for us to get to a European final and bring in £50m in player sales. Budgeting for CL groups is prob “dangerously” speculative on their part but I could see the idea of the gamble.

As I said… there’s two sides to the story/agenda. But somewhere in the middle is the truth most likely.

Not sure what you mean on the Bassey one. I am aware that Ajax had to release info to their Stock Exchange though. Can't be bothered going looking it up.

I tend to be in agreement with your comment that folk will make judgement calls based on which side of the fence they sit. However, I've been reading Maguire's stuff on multiple clubs for many years. It came across to me that you were suggesting his info had been 'planted' by the Board. I think that is a million miles away from being accurate - if it was, indeed, what you were suggesting. He's an expert in his field and has an in-depth knowledge of how transfers, and their payment terms, normally work. Doesn't follow that every single deal will be the same but its a fair working assumption that if 95% of them are structured in the same way then ours will be no different.

I too think our finances will be fine. I think folk have skewed what Roberston said when he mentioned the £20m and made his comparison with the EL. My thoughts are that he meant the difference between EL groups (budgeted for) and CL groups (not budgeted for) was a much lesser figure than folk think. In other words we've got more than we budgeted for (EL groups) but its not the £40m headline figure in the media.

Could we have spent an extra £5m? Probably we could. Maybe they'd have been wiser delaying the Ridvan signing until deadline day. I actually think they'd have taken less heat if they'd done that. Such is the mentality of some of the nutjobs on here. All about the 'optics' for way too many.

 

[Robert Marshall]

The two I bought for the Club Deck were apparently there I’d on average around 35% juniors and concessions and they are between 150 -180 for adults.

The beggars were on average 50 quid cheaper and they spent decent money on their team.

So how many were the £180 for adults and the breakdown of the money we received

 

[Robert Marshall]

Am with you mate.

All I want to see and talk about is the ball flying into the opposition net and Rangers fans and players celebrating goals and winning.

As much as I am sure 99% on here want the above also - of course there are the few timposters who are hiding among us - there are true posters on here with agendas and I say that without any disrespect to anyone.

Whether these posters are justified with their agendas or not - I can't keep up. I don't have the patience or the intelligence for it. I really wish we could stop the public bickering. Maybe we should all head to an agreed venue and have the debate there.

The Louden?

 

[Rio Loyal]

Something i scratch my head at is there is a thread on this forum with a pretty in depth analysis from Kieran Maguire on where the money has been spent and has been received.

We dont have the stockpiles of cash that some people seem to think we have.

If people bothered to watch it then maybe we wouldnt have the millionth mind numbing thread on where the money is.

Maybe they have seen it and have other agendas though.......

As for communication....why on earth would the club reveal how much money they have available to spend, what their strategies are or their wage structures?

Im sorry if fans find it frustrating to not have every detail of the club clarified for them, but the truth is we arent privvy to that information.

Id love to know more but im happier knowing that our enemies know less

Has Kieran Maguire got access to the accounts and sensitive information.

I listened to a lot of his interview and it was mainly supposition so i will wait to see what the accounts say.

 

[Rio Loyal]

So how many were the £180 for adults and the breakdown of the money we received

Robert I honestly don’t know and wouldn’t pretend to but what the kind of indication of the season tickets were 65% adults.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Be plenty of room for both, I actually think opening the sports Bar and Edmiston House will bring fans to the area earlier

The area certainly needs something but it will no doubt effect your takings at least for a little while.

 

[HillsBill]

You are referring to the salary info of the highest paid director of TRFC which Is not Stewart Robertson. That is the same mistake the blogger made.

Well if so, and the most recent salaries have yet to be published as far as I know, then it confirms a lot of the info on here is inaccurate. That makes criticism even less fair.

The higher your turn over the more valuable your asset is it’s the same if you buy a corner shop or a multimillion pound organisation.

Of course there are other factors like assets and debt but as we have a decent amount of asset’s and no debt we are in a much better place than a lot of clubs and would be very saleable if the full club was on the market and would more than bring the investors their cash back.

The value of a football club is what someone is prepared to pay for it, turnover has little to do with it. Look at what happened in 2012, there wasn’t exactly a queue. There are several “formula” used to value companies, and yes turnover is one of them, but football finances do not fall into any “normal” category and neither do club valuations.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Well if so, and the most recent salaries have yet to be published as far as I know, then it confirms a lot of the info on here is inaccurate. That makes criticism even less fair.

The value of a football club is what someone is prepared to pay for it, turnover has little to do with it. Look at what happened in 2012, there wasn’t exactly a queue. There are several “formula” used to value companies, and yes turnover is one of them, but football finances do not fall into any “normal” category and neither do club valuations.

My initial point was they would get their money back if the club was sold and it’s not a wild supposition.

 

[HillsBill]

My initial point was they would get their money back if the club was sold and it’s not a wild supposition.

There is every chance they would, if they were willing sell. Dave King apart, there is only rumour and supposition that other directors want to sell. £100m is around 23p per share. The most recent share for debt swaps from memory were done at 20p and the rumoured USA deal, which most on here seemed to believe, was 40p. Which was rejected, apparently. Just goes to show you should take all such claims and rumours with a large pinch of salt until they are confined.

 

[stooler]

Has Kieran Maguire got access to the accounts and sensitive information.

I listened to a lot of his interview and it was mainly supposition so i will wait to see what the accounts say.

I wish everyone would wait and see the accounts but it seems everyone wants to work themselves into a frenzy over some bad results and performances

We laughed at the Tim's throwing fences
We laughed at the Tim's for all being financial experts

We won't be far off the same going by some of the lunacy on this forum

 

[Rio Loyal]

There is every chance they would, if they were willing sell. Dave King apart, there is only rumour and supposition that other directors want to sell. £100m is around 23p per share. The most recent share for debt swaps from memory were done at 20p and the rumoured USA deal, which most on here seemed to believe, was 40p. Which was rejected, apparently. Just goes to show you should take all such claims and rumours with a large pinch of salt until they are confined.

That was my point that the money they have invested they would get back they hadn’t chucked it away even with the mistakes that have been made.

Their investment is covered and I wouldn’t honestly be surprised to see some of them take it and walk away.

The full club is a much better prospect than selling a percentage,

 

[Rio Loyal]

I wish everyone would wait and see the accounts but it seems everyone wants to work themselves into a frenzy over some bad results and performances

We laughed at the Tim's throwing fences
We laughed at the Tim's for all being financial experts

We won't be far off the same going by some of the lunacy on this forum

All I am saying is he’s not seen under the bonnet he’s guessing which is a fact.

 

[The People]

I wish everyone would wait and see the accounts but it seems everyone wants to work themselves into a frenzy over some bad results and performances

We laughed at the Tim's throwing fences
We laughed at the Tim's for all being financial experts

We won't be far off the same going by some of the lunacy on this forum

Have to agree with that

I really hope this forum is the lunatic fringe of our support and not a snapshot of our overall support.
We all know there are issues right now and they are needing addressed ,but some of the vitriolic bile being posted against the board is shocking and embarrassing imo.

 

[HillsBill]

That’s all fine and dandy but in the present and future, it’s not looking too bright. We can’t live in the past all the time.

Nor can we judge the future by the last few months.

 

[High Society]

Not surprised to hear that from you are as pro board as it gets.

If you read the thread properly I’ve picked it up wrong and I’ve also answered the question.

We will have a turn over of at least 70 million this year potentially higher what’s the advantage to buying 20% if no one else wants to sell its dead money the full lot would go for more than enough for investors to get their money back absolutely no problem.

If you thread my correction you wouldn’t need to be a smart ass. As for pro Board, with people like you anybody who’s not anti board or promoting a dead duck called C 1872 is pro Board.

Who the eff do you think is going to pay £100m for us other than some ego maniac or carpet bagger and we’ve already had them.

Not surprised neither you or your Anti Board pals have picked up on John Bennett stating quite forcefully that NONE repeat NONE of the major shareholders want to sell……apart from your Patron of course.

C1872 are an embarrassment and barely ahead of this of us who bought in via Tifosy to help the club.

 

[FhillBear]

This is not an attack on David Graham - but what is his actual remit? I see him sitting cueing questions at Press Conferences and in RTV videos when we unveil signings. Is he being afforded the latitude to perform his role as he would wish to, or is he working under tighter constraints than he expected? It seems like Rangers Coms is constantly lurching from one PR clusterf**k to the next.

His remit is weightlifting, and stadium tours.

 

[mdingwall]

They all made mistakes but as soon as King was out the door 5 minutes we stopped investing in the team.

Maybe to do with having the find the money to pay for Helander and Kent who Dave signed without bothering to consult with the Board about how to fund them?

We signed 7 players this summer.

 

[mdingwall]

His remit is weightlifting, and stadium tours.

Your remit appears to be gormless fuckwittery.

 

[High Society]

Has Kieran Maguire got access to the accounts and sensitive information.

I listened to a lot of his interview and it was mainly supposition so i will wait to see what the accounts say.

Aye, cos you can’t trust an independent expert like Kevin, you can’t trust a a guy called Bennett who’s invested around E12m of his own cash. What you will do is talk absolute crap until you’re caught. Out and then tell US to wait for the accounts to come out ffs.

 

[Rio Loyal]

If you thread my correction you wouldn’t need to be a smart ass. As for pro Board, with people like you anybody who’s not anti board or promoting a dead duck called C 1872 is pro Board.

Who the eff do you think is going to pay £100m for us other than some ego maniac or carpet bagger and we’ve already had them.

Not surprised neither you or your Anti Board pals have picked up on John Bennett stating quite forcefully that NONE repeat NONE of the major shareholders want to sell……apart from your Patron of course.

C1872 are an embarrassment and barely ahead of this of us who bought in via Tifosy to help the club.

I am not promoting anyone it was a decent written piece so I posted it.

Funny none of them want to sell but someone Is hawking us for sale in American and Paul Murray is involved time will tell.

My main point was the investors would get their cash back which I 100% don’t think is any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Maybe to do with having the find the money to pay for Helander and Kent who Dave signed without bothering to consult with the Board about how to fund them?

We signed 7 players this summer.

I am not saying we didn’t sign 7 players my comment was that Wilson sat and told us money brought in would be spent on the team.

Is I’ve said earlier I never expected it all to be spent but 25% then none despite qualifying for the Champions league isnt good enough investment.

 

[mdingwall]

I am not promoting anyone it was a decent written piece so I posted it.

Funny none of them want to sell but someone Is hawking us for sale in American and Paul Murray is involved time will tell.

My main point was the investors would get their cash back which I 100% don’t think is any stretch of the imagination.

You couldn’t mark their necks with a blowtorch.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Aye, cos you can’t trust an independent expert like Kevin, you can’t trust a a guy called Bennett who’s invested around E12m of his own cash. What you will do is talk absolute crap until you’re caught. Out and then tell US to wait for the accounts to come out ffs.

Has he access to the books yes or no I listened to his interview and it was purely speculation.

We have easily turned over 60 million we weren’t expecting too but don’t let facts get in the way of your personal attacks.

 

[Rio Loyal]

You couldn’t mark their necks with a blowtorch.

Doesn’t make any off it less correct though does it?

 

[DarthVader]

Maybe to do with having the find the money to pay for Helander and Kent who Dave signed without bothering to consult with the Board about how to fund them?

We signed 7 players this summer.

Never heard this before, is it 100% true?

 

[mdingwall]

I am not saying we didn’t sign 7 players my comment was that Wilson sat and told us money brought in would be spent on the team.

Is I’ve said earlier I never expected it all to be spent but 25% then none despite qualifying for the Champions league isnt good enough investment.

It has been and it will be. We front loaded investment in the team to get us to where we are in Europe.

This year we started selling players for good money most of which will actually arrive in our bank account over the next four years - very little this year.

 

[mdingwall]

Doesn’t make any off it less correct though does it?

It makes it all incorrect as they were happy to keep their traps shut when Dave King was in charge pursuing the same policies. Add in their own secrecy, evasiveness and lack of accountability and Bob’s yer uncle.

 

[mdingwall]

Never heard this before, is it 100% true?

100%. It makes the real start of the fall out.

 

[Southsideblueblood]

Unfortunately we’re at a point now where it doesn’t matter if the board communicate or not, the majority have made up their mind and are desperate to have a go at the board whenever they can.

In the past two and a bit years, under the current board, we have:

Won a league title
Made a EL final
Qualified for the CL group stages
Broke our transfer record (sales) twice

That’s not even mentioning the £80million loss the board have covered with their own money over the past 4/5 years.

The current board definitely do make mistakes but I think a lot of people need to take a step back at time and realise how lucky we are to have them.

How's things mr Robertson?

 

[DarthVader]

100%. It makes the real start of the fall out.

That's outrageous and goes a long way towards explaining our recent poor transfer windows.

 

[Rio Loyal]

It has been and it will be. We front loaded investment in the team to get us to where we are in Europe.

This year we started selling players for good money most of which will actually arrive in our bank account over the next four years - very little this year.

This is what you’ve all ready said so is the board telling you this and if you have such sensitive information please share it with the rest of us?

It’s up to us to decide terms when we are selling players Bassey for example had plenty of interest and AjAx took in well over 200 million so if we got peanuts up front that’s another black mark against Wilson.

Regardless there is a lot of guaranteed money to come in and if we are cutting the same deals most of it wouldn’t need to be paid out for 4 years either.

Investment I agree was front loaded but tell me why Wilson less than a year ago said any money that came in for players would go back in team, Robertson has said the sand in the past.

 

[marcovan11]

It’s a sign of how bad the communication is that what should be a heroic effort from the PLC Board and one for which we should be eternally grateful is attracting such a level of criticism

I think they underplay how bad things were and how much they’ve had to invest over the years. I think the roof was a clumsy example to try and do that.

But at the same they’ve let too much expectation build around income and transfers. Combine the reality now coming out with some poor results and frustration from fans is understandable.

What has been achieved is remarkable.
Wrestled control from the crooks, taking over a shell of a club the crooks had completely run down. King estimated £30m to fix and they all ended up having to put in a lot more. On top of that they front loaded investment to allow us to bring in Gerrard, new squad and become competitive again
There was no realistic credit facilities available at the time that could have allowed us to do that. When announcing he was leaving in 2019 King praised main shareholders for the numbers of times they had dug deep. But that Rangers had to move to being self funding. The next year Covid hit and the directors had to dig deep again. In the last few years we’ve won title 55, qualified for CL, Europa League 3 times, including an incredible run to the Europa final.

None of this would have been possible without the fans as well and probably the biggest disappointment is the lack of engagement. Also promised improvements not materialising ie Customer Service, Ticketing, Disabled facilities and Comms. And while we’ve started on player trading model there have been too many bad decisions.

So while I think there are valid criticisms, in overall context some of the criticism this week has been way OTT and at times nonsense. If you offer me a group of successful businessman with Rangers interests at heart owning Rangers I take that every day.

I worry that because communication has been so bad that the AGM could turn toxic. And it really doesn’t deserve that.
My biggest concern is that some shareholders decide they don’t need the hassle. And then it potentially becomes a case of careful what you wish for.

 

[mdingwall]

This is what you’ve all ready said so is the board telling you this and if you have such sensitive information please share it with the rest of us?

It’s up to us to decide terms when we are selling players Bassey for example had plenty of interest and AjAx took in well over 200 million so if we got peanuts up front that’s another black mark against Wilson.

Regardless there is a lot of guaranteed money to come in and if we are cutting the same deals most of it wouldn’t need to be paid out for 4 years either.

Investment I agree was front loaded but tell me why Wilson less than a year ago said any money that came in for players would go back in team, Robertson has said the sand in the past.

Read the accounts.

We got £23m for Bassey - are you seriously arguing that wasn’t enough?!

 

[Rio Loyal]

It makes it all incorrect as they were happy to keep their traps shut when Dave King was in charge pursuing the same policies. Add in their own secrecy, evasiveness and lack of accountability and Bob’s yer uncle.

Mark i am no big supporter of Club 1872 but there are massive Issues between the club and the supporters especially when it comes to communication.

What they did was right coming out and speaking but the content of what was put out made things worse if not better.

The tone of both interviews were condescending and implying half of us button up the back.

If we are needing to claw back money to pay stuff off debts etc fair do’s but don’t let Ross Wilson sit and spout lies and talk pish about roof repairs 7 years ago.

Truth goes a long way even if it’s not what we want to hear.

 

[Bigbluebear]

So is that everybody on club 1872s side again?

I struggle to keep up...

 

[Rio Loyal]

Read the accounts.

We got £23m for Bassey - are you seriously arguing that wasn’t enough?!

Apparently it’s not in till next years accounts and was 19 million then add ons,

Ajax will sell him for 3 x that amount. My comment wax that we should have had a bigger lump sum as you say we brought in practically nothing.

 

[mdingwall]

Mark i am no big supporter of Club 1872 but there are massive Issues between the club and the supporters especially when it comes to communication.

What they did was right coming out and speaking but the content of what was put out made things worse if not better.

The tone of both interviews were condescending and implying half of us button up the back.

If we are needing to claw back money to pay stuff off debts etc fair do’s but don’t let Ross Wilson sit and spout lies and talk pish about roof repairs 7 years ago.

Truth goes a long way even if it’s not what we want to hear.

Club1872 are in a cul de sac where their demented behaviour has alienated them from the club board and major investors.

They have allied themselves with an exiting director whose pronouncements inevitably come when the club hits a low ebb and are nothing but opportunistic mischief making.

If they think that is a strategy for expanding their influence or propping up their huge fall in contributions over the last five years then they are mistaken.

 

[mdingwall]

Apparently it’s not in till next years accounts and was 19 million then add ons,

Ajax will sell him for 3 x that amount. My comment wax that we should have had a bigger lump sum as you say we brought in practically nothing.

It will be accounted for in two parts - what we have received and what we will receive in the Profit & Loss account and in the Balance Sheet.

If he breaks his leg tomorrow or fails to develop - none of which do I wish on him - then Ajax won’t be selling him for anything. You’re indulging in unsubstantiated speculation.

 

[High Society]

I am not promoting anyone it was a decent written piece so I posted it.

Funny none of them want to sell but someone Is hawking us for sale in American and Paul Murray is involved time will tell.

My main point was the investors would get their cash back which I 100% don’t think is any stretch of the imagination.

Stop lying , no one is “hawking us for sake” your just telling lies now.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Club1872 are in a cul de sac where their demented behaviour has alienated them from the club board and major investors.

They have allied themselves with an exiting director whose pronouncements inevitably come when the club hits a low ebb and are nothing but opportunistic mischief making.

If they think that is a strategy for expanding their influence or propping up their huge fall in contributions over the last five years then they are mistaken.

I am really not on to argue about Club 1872 I dont think they are doing anything like they are supposed to either.

 

[Rio Loyal]

It will be accounted for in two parts - what we have received and what we will receive in the Profit & Loss account and in the Balance Sheet.

If he breaks his leg tomorrow or fails to develop - none of which do I wish on him - then Ajax won’t be selling him for anything. You’re indulging in unsubstantiated speculation.

His sale won’t be in the accounts till next year apparently?

We bit straight away when potentially we could have got more money in this window.

My issue was you said we hardly brought anything in and we will get the money over the next 4 years.

Ajax brought in over 200 million so if we received any less than half the initial fee as a down payment someone isn’t doing their job correctly as we obviously need the cash now .

 

[Rio Loyal]

Stop lying , no one is “hawking us for sake” your just telling lies now.

Aww the ongoing court case I’ve just made up have i

 

[High Society]

Aww the ongoing court case I’ve just made up have i

The court case has been brought about by our Board who told the woman they didn’t want to sell.
You’re insinuating she was given an impression they were she can’t “hawk us around” and you know it, you’re just shit stirring

 

[High Society]

The court case has been brought about by our Board who told the woman they didn’t want to sell.
You’re insinuating she was given an impression they were she can’t “hawk us around” and you know it, you’re just shit stirring.
As for getting personal you’re the guy who says I’m as Pro Board as anyone on here but I’ve not to get personal?

 

[Rio Loyal]

The court case has been brought about by our Board who told the woman they didn’t want to sell.
You’re insinuating she was given an impression they were she can’t “hawk us around” and you know it, you’re just shit stirring

You just told me no one was so you have totally contradicted your self

Paul Murray is involved so some one is hawking the club around.

I wasn’t on here a few weeks ago saying we had no money as Park had taken it all back that’s unsubstantiated shit stirring.

There will be changes on that board at a high level sooner rather than later watch this space.

 

[mdingwall]

You just told me no one was so you have totally contradicted your self

Paul Murray is involved so some one is hawking the club around.

I wasn’t on here a few weeks ago saying we had no money as Park had taken it all back that’s unsubstantiated shit stirring.

There will be changes on that board at a high level sooner rather than later watch this space.

Paul Murray has no authority to do anything on behalf of the club.

 

[Rio Loyal]

Paul Murray has no authority to do anything on behalf of the club.

I didn’t say he did but he’s a man who also cares greatly about the club.

 

[High Society]

You just told me no one was so you have totally contradicted your self

Paul Murray is involved so some one is hawking the club around.

I wasn’t on here a few weeks ago saying we had no money as Park had taken it all back that’s unsubstantiated shit stirring.

There will be changes on that board at a high level sooner rather than later watch this space.

I’ve told you the board chased her they DON’T want to sell
John Bennett told us none of the major investors want to sell
How have I contradicted myself?
Now you’re telling us you’re ITK and to watch this space?

 

[Toproadloyal]

In light of the communications (or lack of until very recently) that have come out from the club of late, I thought it was worth looking at the performance of our Comms in general under our Communications Director, David Graham.

For me, someone working at Graham’s level in Comms/PR should be developing and implementing short and long-term strategic communication plans that enhance reputation, are aligned to overall business strategy, and deliver commercial objectives.

Other priorities should include effectively managing proactive, reactive and emergency communication plans to ensure the reputation of the Club is protected.

I'm seeing very little evidence of any the above.
On the contrary, I'd suggest our Comms 'strategy' is a complete and utter shambles.

I don't know what Graham's KPIs are, but I'm seeing nothing of substance whatsoever to back up why he was promoted to the Communications Director position.

Indeed, with no Comms or media experience prior to joining the Club, I'd suggest he was woefully under qualified for the initial Head of Communications position he took up with us.

A position of that importance should be going to someone at the very top of their field.

Always thought he was in there to protect daddy in laws financial interests.