Copa Libertadores 2018

Linfieldloyal said:
Add in that corrupt CONMEBOL will no doubt earn big $$$ for it also
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And you highhlight what the cynics will identify as perhaps the underlying motive. But with any shred of credibility that it may still retain (see Copa Libertadores 2018 passim), does anyone think this will be it's prime motive?
 
Diesel said:
How some people, even on a thread about the final of a tournament involving South American teams, can still manage to mention Celtic's chief executive is beyond me.
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It's completely about Bocas obvious attempt to have the trophy awarded without having to actually win it on a field of play.
The kind of sneaky, devious tactic employed by the filth.

I don't really think for a second that you needed that explained to you, I'm pretty sure you'll have known that is exactly why his name was mentioned.

But there you go, it's not beyond you now.
 
Well from start(flooding postponement) to finish(chaos postponement) it was an utter disaster.

Still, always nice to know you’re living through history.
Certainly one to remember.




“I remember that one, boy.

Waiting 3 hours for the teams to come out whilst talking shite to people on the internet and learning about Tyson Fury and Kenny Sansom. What a time to be alive”
 
ChiefWahoo said:
It's completely about Bocas obvious attempt to have the trophy awarded without having to actually win it on a field of play.
The kind of sneaky, devious tactic employed by the filth.

I don't really think for a second that you needed that explained to you, I'm pretty sure you'll have known that is exactly why his name was mentioned.

But there you go, it's not beyond you now.
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Meh, not actually the post I was referring to, but fair enough.
 
Bowery Boy said:
I'm not sure. I know if Rangers were playing at the Piggery and our players were attacked with pepper spray and one had a shard of glass in the eye we'd all be demanding the game be postponed and the harshest sanctions possible brought against them. I'm not sure why we always have to attach an Old Firm angle to all these other rivalries. They all have their own political and cultural differences.
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Especially if in very similar circumstances in a QF of the same tournament we were thrown out for our fans behaviour. I would be demanding the cup and wanting the club to refuse to play.
 
Coza said:
Especially if in very similar circumstances in a QF of the same tournament we were thrown out for our fans behaviour. I would be demanding the cup and wanting the club to refuse to play.
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Boca fans attacked players in their ground when the tie had been all but won by River.

For all the behaviour of the River fans was both shameful and stupid, the analogy between the two incidents just doesn’t hold.
 
oranje-viola said:
We're not too far off that situation as things stand when we play at that shithole!

Maybe I'm not quite getting the whole picture what's happened in Buenos Aries, but I see this as shameless opportunism from Boca to get both revenge as well as either being awarded the cup by default or getting to play the return leg in an empty stadium or neutral venue.

And for me there's parallels with the filth and their instances of preserving sporting integrity (O'Donnells death, the 2010 refs strike, 2012 and all that ... sure there's shedloads more). I'm not trying to place the rivalry in a Glasgow context - just see similarities in the scraping the barrel opportunism ive interpreted Boca's actions as here with how the mentally challengeds have conducted themselves in the past
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OJ, you’re way off with this mate.

The similarities are very selective and I say that as someone who follows Argentinian football, spent time in BA and attended matches.

There isn’t really a comparison with Glasgow in football terms or otherwise. Both clubs will do anything to get an advantage, literally anything. The President has even said both clubs will be take 20 years to recover if they lose.

Football is everything. Especially in the current climate in Argentina.

This is a country where a football clubs fan base can vote you President. The President of the country was Boca’s President.

The River/Rangers v Boca/Celtic thing is very flawed and based on perceived social class and stadium geography.

Regarding the game, Perez was genuinely injured. That would be like playing them in a Champions League Final without Morelos because their fans had injured him.

They game should go ahead at El Monumental, as soon as possible.
 
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PalefaceRedskin said:
Boca fans attacked players in their ground when the tie had been all but won by River.

For all the behaviour of the River fans was both shameful and stupid, the analogy between the two incidents just doesn’t hold.
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It was 0-0 at half-time in the 2nd leg after River won 1-0 in the first. Hardly “all but won”.

I agree the two incidents are not the same. However, I’m not sure why Boca are coming under criticism for not playing when their players were directly affected.

I don’t think it should be a walkover, though, and hope it’s played at River.

As an aside, it is just another decision going in favour of River should there are be no sanctions. There are other clubs that the authorities have penalized for things River get away with. Ask the Brazillians.
 
Can't help but chuckle at the "Boca acting like Tims" comments

I'm sure the same posters would be demanding the cup and have Celtic permanently shut down if this happened in an Old Firm Champions League final.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
It was 0-0 at half-time in the 2nd leg after River won 1-0 in the first. Hardly “all but won”.

I agree the two incidents are not the same. However, I’m not sure why Boca are coming under criticism for not playing when their players were directly affected.

I don’t think it should be a walkover, though, and hope it’s played at River.

As an aside, it is just another decision going in favour of River should there are be no sanctions. There are other clubs that the authorities have penalized for things River get away with. Ask the Brazillians.
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It's only 18 months since the Dortmund team bus attack where the game was postponed and played the next day.
Dortmund were rightly angry at being made to play and pretty much everyone backed their stance.

I think Boca have let themselves down big time by trying to have the cup awarded without playing the second leg, but they don't deserve any criticism for wanting the game postponed at the very least.

I think people on here are going too far with the Boca 'poets of Argentina' and want to make them the bad guys.

Had the game gone ahead last night, River Plate would probably be Libertadores champions. They have their scummy fans to thank for that not happening.

Anyone wanting to make it an old firm thing should maybe ask themselves which support last nights behaviour is more suited to.
 
Genuinely don't understand how people can complain about Boca's reaction, it's appalling behaviour from the River fans and wholly understandable that the match should be postponed. It's annoying that we've not been able to watch the match this weekend, but the treatment of the bus was appalling, so a postponement is entirely correct.
 
ChiefWahoo said:
I think Boca have let themselves down big time by trying to have the cup awarded without playing the second leg, but they don't deserve any criticism for wanting the game postponed at the very least.
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It'll be interesting to see what Tuesday brings. Perhaps the Boca response regarding the award of the tie has been a tactic to ensure today didn't proceed either.

However, given the punishment of Boca previously there is justification for a similar decision this time.
 
A CONMEBOL source has leaked details of their preparation in advance of Tuesday's meeting. This has been detailed in newspapers:

1. A decision has already been made not to award the tie to Boca.
2. It will be played at the Monumental in front of fans. Given Boca have been asking for "equal conditions" then they will use this to push for River home game.
3. The Middle East rumour is just that. There is no thought to move it from BA.
4. Saturday December 8th.
5. A heavy fine for River.
 
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Given the River bus was also attacked 2 weeks ago at La Bombonera and things like this are a regular occurrence in Argentina, why not have the windows on the buses protected by metal grills or something, similar to what a police riot van would have.

Not ideal, but it would certainly stop needless injuries to players on the way to play a game of football.
 
This did make me LOL. :D

Ds4BGcOX4AEyg0K.jpg:large
 
In my opinion River's fans behaviour has forfeited the right for them to have a home game.The game should be played in a neutral venue like it's going to be in future.
 
ChiefWahoo said:
It's completely about Bocas obvious attempt to have the trophy awarded without having to actually win it on a field of play.
The kind of sneaky, devious tactic employed by the filth.

I don't really think for a second that you needed that explained to you, I'm pretty sure you'll have known that is exactly why his name was mentioned.

But there you go, it's not beyond you now.
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It's still beyond me. Their players were attacked and hospitalised and there was a precedent set.
 
Bill the Butcher said:
Boca fans attacked the River bus, just not as successfully, in the leg at La Bombonera, let's not start thinking their fans are wee angels.
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I agree they're not angels,their behaviour a few years in the Copa game v River Plate was a disgrace. Maybe this year's won't be played but I can't see that happening, it's a difficult decision for the officials to make to be honest.
 
This is confusing...wasn't the tear gas incident accidental and by the police? I haven't heard anywhere it was River fans.

Throwing bricks is hardly angelic behaviour but shit happens...see our trip to play Bohemians Dublin!!
 
Delboy1962 said:
I agree they're not angels,their behaviour a few years in the Copa game v River Plate was a disgrace. Maybe this year's won't be played but I can't see that happening, it's a difficult decision for the officials to make to be honest.
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What happened a few years ago?
 
Bowery Boy said:
It's still beyond me. Their players were attacked and hospitalised and there was a precedent set.
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My post was in reply to the guy who was getting all precious about lawwells name being mentioned and explaining why the comparisons were drawn.

I don't think Boca should be awarded the tie for something that happened away from the stadium and if they actually have lobbied to force River to forfeit on the basis of an incident that took place in La Bombonera then that is scummy as fùck.
River can't be blamed for what their fans do out on the streets, as Rangers fans we should know better than anyone about our clubs name being dragged through the mud if one of us farts in a lift.


I agree that a precedent has been set, but only for what happens inside the ground.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
It was 0-0 at half-time in the 2nd leg after River won 1-0 in the first. Hardly “all but won”.

I agree the two incidents are not the same. However, I’m not sure why Boca are coming under criticism for not playing when their players were directly affected.

I don’t think it should be a walkover, though, and hope it’s played at River.

As an aside, it is just another decision going in favour of River should there are be no sanctions. There are other clubs that the authorities have penalized for things River get away with. Ask the Brazillians.
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I thought they were 2 up but you’ll know better than me of course. I stand corrected. This episode has reminded me the Internet is as fallible as memory in terms of providing reliable info.

I didn’t know there was a general perception RP get away with stuff. I thought Boca ruled the roost politically now?

On the specifics here, I think your position is fair. The game should be played where it was meant to be played but RP should mosg certainly be punished for the attack.

The criticism I think came from a perception that the incident was being milked given the disparity between Boca’s statements and the position of the official doctors. An unfair perception probably but I’m sure that’s it. One thing has nothing to do with the other but lots of people on here are very sensitive to any perceived attempts to win things off the field.

From what you said yesterday, a specialist contradicted the CONMEBOL doctors. I get that diagnosis isn’t arithmetic but it seems sinister to me there was such a significant difference in medical opinion. I would be jumping up and down about that if I was a Boca official.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
It was 0-0 at half-time in the 2nd leg after River won 1-0 in the first. Hardly “all but won”.

I agree the two incidents are not the same. However, I’m not sure why Boca are coming under criticism for not playing when their players were directly affected.

I don’t think it should be a walkover, though, and hope it’s played at River.

As an aside, it is just another decision going in favour of River should there are be no sanctions. There are other clubs that the authorities have penalized for things River get away with. Ask the Brazillians.
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Correct vai Gremio, vai tricolor!:D
All joking aside, play the game behind closed doors and get it over with
 
Earl of Leven said:
This is confusing...wasn't the tear gas incident accidental and by the police? I haven't heard anywhere it was River fans.

Throwing bricks is hardly angelic behaviour but shit happens...see our trip to play Bohemians Dublin!!
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The police were spraying pepper spray out of a window from a moving vehicle at the crowds, there was very little control from them.
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
I didn’t know there was a general perception RP get away with stuff. I thought Boca ruled the roost politically now?
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It is said that Boca get the 'benefits' domestically but River internationally. Given some of the decisions they get from CONMEBOL, it certainly seems that way, especially when compared to punishments meted out to other teams.

EDIT: And just to note CONMEBOL hate Angelici (Boca President), one of the reasons being he looked into creating a new continental tournament a few years back.

It's also worth mentioning that River officials pushed for a forfeit win in 2015. Boca are responding in a similar manner now.
 
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The woman caught strapping flares to her child has now been identified and arrested.

Following on from Saturday, there's debate about fan behaviour and memories of other 'classic' moments, such as when fans of Chacarita stole a fire hose:


This was also the support who took an elephant from a local circus and tried to 'sneak' it into the ground...
 
BrooklynBlue said:
A CONMEBOL source has leaked details of their preparation in advance of Tuesday's meeting. This has been detailed in newspapers:

1. A decision has already been made not to award the tie to Boca.
2. It will be played at the Monumental in front of fans. Given Boca have been asking for "equal conditions" then they will use this to push for River home game.
3. The Middle East rumour is just that. There is no thought to move it from BA.
4. Saturday December 8th.
5. A heavy fine for River.
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That would seem to me to be the fairest outcome.

Incidentally, BB, the whole "poets of Argentina" thing is just a bit of fun. :) This is a football forum based in Glasgow, so I think it's inevitable that there is always going to be a bit of cultural cross over referencing in every discussion about anybody. Take the Barca "poets of Spain"thing as another example. It's inevitable, and if it gives us all a good laugh on the forum and instils a bit more interest in this particular fixture, well I say good LOL

For what it's worth, I also think Luis Suarez is the poet of Uruguay :D
 
Arminius said:
That would seem to me to be the fairest outcome.

Incidentally, BB, the whole "poets of Argentina" thing is just a bit of fun. :) This is a football forum based in Glasgow, so I think it's inevitable that there is always going to be a bit of cultural cross over referencing in every discussion about anybody. Take the Barca "poets of Spain"thing as another example. It's inevitable, and if it gives us all a good laugh on the forum and instils a bit more interest in this particular fixture, well I say good LOL

For what it's worth, I also think Luis Suarez is the poet of Uruguay :D
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To be honest 99% of them are poets in one way or another:D
 
Decision on the Libertadores fallout to made at 1pm (uk) tomorrow.

- Boca have asked for a walkover win after the attack on their bus.

- River argue the attack happened outside the stadium and was security authorities' fault, and want the game played.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
It is said that Boca get the 'benefits' domestically but River internationally. Given some of the decisions they get from CONMEBOL, it certainly seems that way, especially when compared to punishments meted out to other teams.

EDIT: And just to note CONMEBOL hate Angelici (Boca President), one of the reasons being he looked into creating a new continental tournament a few years back.

It's also worth mentioning that River officials pushed for a forfeit win in 2015. Boca are responding in a similar manner now.
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Interesting. It seems clear from football the world over that age old rivalries/ hatreds are just deepening.
 
From now on but both teams should have better protected coaches,ideally unmarked but they'll get a police escort so they aren't going to be that inconspicuous !.
 
So in the aftermath of the weekend the following have happened, apparently:

• Racing Club and Grêmio has joined Boca’s bid to get River Plate thrown out of Copa Libertadores and by so; handing Boca the trophy.

@GremioENG @RacinginEnglish @RacingClubUK
 
BrooklynBlue said:
The woman caught strapping flares to her child has now been identified and arrested.

Following on from Saturday, there's debate about fan behaviour and memories of other 'classic' moments, such as when fans of Chacarita stole a fire hose:


This was also the support who took an elephant from a local circus and tried to 'sneak' it into the ground...
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Thats fucking brilliant.
 
Bill the Butcher said:
So in the aftermath of the weekend the following have happened, apparently:

• Racing Club and Grêmio has joined Boca’s bid to get River Plate thrown out of Copa Libertadores and by so; handing Boca the trophy.

@GremioENG @RacinginEnglish @RacingClubUK
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If true, it's not a surprise. Phil Scolari (Palmeiras manager) is also saying the same. River don't have a lot of goodwill given previous decisions in their favour.
 
According to @AmericaTV ahead of tomorrow's meeting:

River want to play on 8 Dec in El Monumental with fans

Boca want it awarded by decree

CONMEBOL want it played on neutral ground.
 
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