Disabled Section, What’s The Answer

They've commissioned the work? Anything more specific mate? Have they commissioned a 'feasibility study' or have they actually commissioned a contractor to carry out an agreed scope of work? Was there not some additional work going on at the back of the Govan for disabled seats as part of the ongoing work up there? I know you are one of the 'leaders' on this engaging with the Club so I'm sure you have a better handle on it than virtually all of us.

They're in the process of auditing all facilities not just the wheelchair ones (though they're the most visible obviously) as the Cafe/UEFA report takes a holistic approach to disability to include all forms and it's on that basis that the club will proceed.

Yes there's plans re the refurbishment of Argyle House, I saw the original draft but I noticed a flaw in regards to the distance from the wheelchair spaces to the toilet, I understand this required a relocation of the proposed wheelchair spaces to a more appropriate location. I haven't seen the redrafted plans so can't comment on them.
 
Not all disabled fans are in wheelchairs, pushed by a carer.

There are ambulant disabled like myself. I struggle to get to Ibrox. Parking is atrocious despite there being loads of empty spaces behind the Sandy Jardine stand. I am on the waiting list. Big deal.

I’ll not be renewing my ticket next season as it’s just too difficult to get to games.
 
They're in the process of auditing all facilities not just the wheelchair ones (though they're the most visible obviously) as the Cafe/UEFA report takes a holistic approach to disability to include all forms and it's on that basis that the club will proceed.

Yes there's plans re the refurbishment of Argyle House, I saw the original draft but I noticed a flaw in regards to the distance from the wheelchair spaces to the toilet, I understand this required a relocation of the proposed wheelchair spaces to a more appropriate location. I haven't seen the redrafted plans so can't comment on them.
It sounds like there is a little progress - albeit painfully slow -as they realise this has to be done/complied with.

Any idea of the numbers in Argyle House? I assume they will be new places rather than re-allocated 'old' spaces?
 
Could they not use a section of the rear of the enclosures to install a platform? It will need some seats removing but its vital we provide proper facilities for all fans.

There simply must be a way to fix this problem and its too far down the priority list of those who should have dealt with this already.
 
It sounds like there is a little progress - albeit painfully slow -as they realise this has to be done/complied with.

Any idea of the numbers in Argyle House? I assume they will be new places rather than re-allocated 'old' spaces?

My understanding is 5, but a quirk in the Cafe/UEFA guidelines means they don't actually count towards their formula so are on addition to the overall requirement.
 
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I think this is it.
Just very exposed in rotten weather and no opportunity for a view other than pitch level.
That is pretty poor! just out of curiosity, do they still have a `Blind Section` at Ibrox? I recall as a kid there used to be one left of the tunnel where a guy would do a commentary of the game for them!
Was always amazed and in awe at their loyalty in coming to the games.
 
We could extend down the way in either the Copland or Broomloan rear the same we did to build bar 72 in the Govan and that could be the dedicated disabled section.

It's beyond a joke now how long we've hung them out to dry with piss poor facilities.

We couldn’t.

There's no overhang on those stands they way the Govan had one before Bar72 was created.

Something does need to be done urgently though for the disabled fans.
 
I know, but that ramp is nothing like what would be needed to get to the top of the stairs
Don't need to go as far back as the stairs.

which means it was part of the planning at the time

Every building in the country must comply football stadiums are no different in that respect ergo I fail to see the significance of your point.

lets just use argyle house as a start point

how many chairs can use the lift at one time?how many lifts would be needed for 114 wheel chair users plus helper ?
One chair at a time fits in the Argyle House lift (just!) though I haven't been in the new lifts yet but I imagine they're the same even though they're supposed to be slightly larger.

the number of spaces required to watch the game is half that of the stands, remembering that the stands needs the same space in front for others to pass, would mean removing five hundred seats for 114 wheelchair spaces.
It isn't half at all and it's far better if people pass BEHIND the chairs not in front, you simply won't get 114 wheelchair spaces compliant with the Cafe/UEFA guidelines into 500 existing seats at Ibrox.

i would like to see us go from street level too looking down on the pitch, i would love a stadium with that has a roof that closes in bad weather with a bowl shape.

My preference would be to lower the existing vomitories to do away with the steps in the Broomloan, Govan and Copland Stands so that there is level step free access, no lifts, no ramps. Have a platform all round the 3 stands (Swansea and Hearts have a similar set up) and infront of that a new terrace with proper safe standing that would increase the capacity in the front of the stands to partly mitigate the loss of capacity.

its all about money the club does not have, they could try fitting flat style escalators where the stairs are in the enclosures which would act as a ramp in the event of fire or anything else, that wouldnt require removing any seats

It's never been about money it's been about a complete and total lack of will and a corporate mindset that seemed to believe that we should be thankful for what we have.

I find your obsession with lifts, ramps and fires a bit odd to be honest, as I've already demonstrated no lifts or ramps are necessary to make Ibrox compliant.

If you seriously think you can increase the wheelchair capacity without losing any existing seats or expanding the stadium then I'm 100% certain Dougie Park, John Bennet and Stewart Robertson will all be delighted to meet you.
 
This is why the rear of the west enclosure is the area the revamp has to happen. Easy access, no lifts required, raised covered viewing platform, sorted

The only thing stopping it is money

Except if you're in the back 3-4 rows of the Enclosures you can't see the pitch properly when those infront stand.

The slant of the roof and the back of peoples heads blocks your view.

Any disabled section would need to to be quite far forward.

Which is maybe what you meant.
 
That is pretty poor! just out of curiosity, do they still have a `Blind Section` at Ibrox? I recall as a kid there used to be one left of the tunnel where a guy would do a commentary of the game for them!
Was always amazed and in awe at their loyalty in coming to the games.

That was Hugh Gray, sometimes helped by Alistair Alexander.

My dad knew Hugh and we often met him him going in.
 
Exactly! Add to that the extra seating capacity added when there were additional rows put in at the front of the stand and Bar72.

The 7 excellent spaces in the Govan West Corner would have been even better if they had been installed when it was built rather than retrofitted.

The 36 spaces in the East Enclosure were believe it or not were paid for by the council for the Commonwealth Games, intriguingly they also put a platform for wheelchairs in the Govan East Corner but sadly removed it before the start of the football season.
What was changed in the East Enclosure in 2014? I'm over in the Sandy Jardine so I haven't noticed anything different to West Enclosure.
 
Take away both screens, and erect multi level platforms to house disabled fans in the upper corners. Surely this is possible without touching the roof structures.
This would surely be an incredibly costly exercise, compared to other cheaper alternatives.
 
The Argyll House redevelopment would have been iseal, lifts, toilet facilities and weatherproof.
I think part of the sky lounge being built includes sections for disabled fans unless they've gone back on that.
Originally it was meant to be all seated then was changed to include a disabled platform?
 
With my ST being located in the row directly behind the Disabled section I can understand how shite the location is, for both view and when it rains having no shelter. At least I get the option to try find a spare seat further back in the stand when its pishing down and it's a disgrace they have to deal with it.

Logistics in terms of access is what causes the issue, but I'd like to think a solution could be found using SE1 or SE2 being converted, possibly in conjunction with a permanent studio setup for the TV.

For the seats that are being lost, the numbers could easily be matched with the introduction of safe standing.
 
What was changed in the East Enclosure in 2014? I'm over in the Sandy Jardine so I haven't noticed anything different to West Enclosure.

36 wheelchair spaces were installed in the front of the East Enclosure for the Commonwealth Games Rugby 7's.
 
What about removing the last 3/4 rows from one or two of the sections behind one of the goals and building a platform with step free access to it there? Could get a good few spaces in and would be a decent vantage point without exposure to the elements...
 
Are these 'better' than the West Enclosure spaces?

View wise no as they're just as restricted and open to the elements but they're more "comfortable" because you're not crammed in like a sardine, there's more room at the front to move about and the carer sits next to you not behind you.
 
It’s not difficult but the club need to accept that something like 500 seats need to be taken out of the back of one of the enclosures to put an appropriate platform in. Man Utd set the standard for this several years ago when they enhanced their disabled section.
Spotted this recently at Old Trafford. They have set the bar but it's a shame that's not the standard. Doesn't matter how much it costs. It's 2022.
 
We couldn’t.

There's no overhang on those stands they way the Govan had one before Bar72 was created.

Something does need to be done urgently though for the disabled fans.
Would they need the same kind of overhang as the Jardine has?
If it's a platform rather than tiered seating I mean?
 
Away fans especially the rats don't deserve to sit in not only the best stand and seats at Ibrox but also one of the most iconic stands in world sport. IMO.

Best way to segregate them and keep them off camera. Gives us more opportunities to look after supporters with disabilities.

If we keep away fans in the corner I'd love to see us switch cameras to the Sandy Jardine stand so we can show off our brilliant Main Stand. You're right that it's iconic and we don't show it off enough.
 
The biggest problem is getting disabled people access to whatever part of the ground they use. The location they are in at the moment is ideal in that it is 100% wheelchair accessible with no ramps elevators etc. in any emergency situation this is what you want.
The big thing people have to think about when making suggestions is accessibility. Back of the enclosure, SJ corner etc is just not accessible by wheelchairs.
Covering the area that they are in at the moment would meant the first 3/4 rows of seating in the Enclosure would lose their ability to see.
No easy answers to this I’m afraid
 
The biggest problem is getting disabled people access to whatever part of the ground they use. The location they are in at the moment is ideal in that it is 100% wheelchair accessible with no ramps elevators etc. in any emergency situation this is what you want.
The big thing people have to think about when making suggestions is accessibility. Back of the enclosure, SJ corner etc is just not accessible by wheelchairs.
Covering the area that they are in at the moment would meant the first 3/4 rows of seating in the Enclosure would lose their ability to see.
No easy answers to this I’m afraid

This is ill informed nonsense.

There are ramps down to both the East and West Enclosure wheelchair sections.

The Govan West Corner is not only accessible but contains the best wheelchair spaces in Ibrox, has the easiest access with the shortest shallowist ramp, the easiet and closest access to both the toilet and food kiosk.

There is some amount of crap in this thread and posts like this add absolutely nothing to the debate.
 
Would they need the same kind of overhang as the Jardine has?
If it's a platform rather than tiered seating I mean?

Because the views of the people behind the platform (in the existing seats) would be obstructed. That platform extending out vertically stops the people in the front rows of the rear section seeing the near touch line.

I also don't think there's the head height above the rear section of the lower tier to do it either.

While the two end stands look similar to the Govan, they're actually different in their construction.
 
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Not all disabled fans are in wheelchairs, pushed by a carer.

There are ambulant disabled like myself. I struggle to get to Ibrox. Parking is atrocious despite there being loads of empty spaces behind the Sandy Jardine stand. I am on the waiting list. Big deal.

I’ll not be renewing my ticket next season as it’s just too difficult to get to games.
I totally agree . I have been trying for 2 years to get back into Ibrox. I sent my paperwork to show I'm registered disabled as requested but they said as I'm not in a wheelchair they can't help me. Just to get tickets email them and if they aren't suitable and they can't relocate for that game then that's it. Now they ignore my emails that includes people like the DAO SLO ticket office and disability matters.
 
Was at the Red Star game in my chair and had the unfortunate pleasure(if you can call it that) of being in space 100 in the WE. For the whole match my view was blocked by Police, stewards and TV sound techs of the goal at the Broomloan end. I'm not tech savvy so cant upload pictures. When I think back to how much I paid for the whole thing, atmosphere only goes so far. Just thankful it was a dry night!!
The spaces are a joke as they are too tight, spaces 95 to 103 should not be used as this is where police and stewards all gather and view of one goal is blocked for entire match. Ask them to move and it's a blank stare that you get as an answer.
I still love going to Ibrox but it will need to change.
WATP
 

He was at Dens yesterday and introduced himself to supporters in the front couple of rows as these seats were directly in front of the wheelchair section. He was understanding that we'd all be standing and told us he understood that stewards would let supporters in these areas to stand behind the wheelchairs (large space behind for those that have never been to Dens). As far as i know there were no issues.
 
That is pretty poor! just out of curiosity, do they still have a `Blind Section` at Ibrox? I recall as a kid there used to be one left of the tunnel where a guy would do a commentary of the game for them!
Was always amazed and in awe at their loyalty in coming to the games.
Yes they sit behind the dugout , west enclosure
 
Stick the board in the splash zone and move the disabled fans into the directors box
 
He was at Dens yesterday and introduced himself to supporters in the front couple of rows as these seats were directly in front of the wheelchair section. He was understanding that we'd all be standing and told us he understood that stewards would let supporters in these areas to stand behind the wheelchairs (large space behind for those that have never been to Dens). As far as i know there were no issues.

Yes I was there.

That makes a massive difference to us , literally the difference between actually seeing the game and looking at someone's back for 90 minutes.

It's great when people acquiesce to such requests but alas that isn't always the case sadly
 
Just to add a wee bit to something I said earlier about going to Murrayfield. They have track side accessible seating which I’ve been in but the best place I’ve personally had is in two locations in the main stand that sits level to where the coaches sit watching the game. It’s a great view, is nice and dry and has a number of spaces for wheelchairs and a companion, also has seats behind if like me you have kids wanting to or needing to sit with you. It’s serviced by one lift that’s big enough for one wheelchair and a couple of people standing. Never any great issue getting in and up the two flights it takes you. Go in the main entrance of Murrayfield to get to it. Most people don’t arrive at the same time and not really huge queues at the end to get out.

Best venue of the lot just now is the Hydro IMHO where they have an area and adaptive seating either on rails or folding chairs. If you get a seat there and say I’m coming with my wife and son they will sell you a ticket and have the wheelchair space with two seats beside. The folks next to you might be a party of 2 wheelchairs and 1 person and there will be 2 spaces and 1 seat. It’s all very adaptable, disabled people can sit it’s friends or family.

The problem I have mainly with Ibrox is the availability of accessible tickets for games. There is an impossibility long queue for season ticket in accessible area and simply so few match to match tickets to be had. The area in the old enclosure is not the greatest position to view anything with stewards and police constantly in the road.

The club at times want to make a big deal about helping kids with disabilities or veterans who have been injured but it doesn’t really show that in the facilities that are on offer if I’m being honest.

Somebody above mentioned about these things cost money and yeah that’s right but there is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to treat disabled people equally and there are obligations in that to ensure things should be on a more level playingfield for people who need their requirements met

I don’t know for instance if there is a separate more descriptive commentary for blind people or is it just the TV commentary from RTV which only really lends its self to the pictures you see as it’s not descriptive enough.

A reasonable adjustment as I said above could be deemed as reducing the capacity of seats to ensure there was appropriate facilities for disabled people. Maybe needs a group of disabled fans to get together and really be more vocal about this and get the help of MPs/MSP or challenge it in court under the equality act. The old excuse about the club doing it’s best perhaps doesn’t wash
 
Just to add.

The club need to be hearing from disabled fans who currently get tickets or are season tickets to know what’s needed in the ground to aid them but also the huge number of disabled bears who can’t get to games due to no tickets for a real balanced view.

I know it’s changing when the new Edmiston build is finished but even on a week day going to the club shop the rake of the ramp added to the slight hill that the forcourt is on I find difficult with my disability to propel my chair into it myself.

I think this would fall into the auspices of the GCC but things like dropped kerbs and road surfaces around the ground are not great either. A couple of crossings wouldn’t go amiss either
 
I think Robertson & the Board should be invited to join the disabled supporters in their section for a game, preferably one where the weather is atypical of what these fans experience during the winter months.
 
I was looking at the EPL for who had the best disabled stadium and it was Brighton. So I then looked at theirs, they have largely the same issue as us which is the most are sat pitch side open to the elements.

They do offer a platform seat pitch side for a higher viewing point but again open to the elements. Then they have small section around the rest of the stadium.

So the issue itself isn’t one unique to us and modern stadiums don’t seem to have any design for improved seating for disabled fans. So it really is going to take some outside of the box thinking on how we move the fans and where too.
 
I think Robertson & the Board should be invited to join the disabled supporters in their section for a game, preferably one where the weather is atypical of what these fans experience during the winter months.
I think the board need to take a walk round the whole ground to see the many issues that fans face.
 
Up in the clubdeck there is a handrail at the end of every second row. The club could improve conditions for disabled fans if there was a handrail at the end of every row.
 
Just to add a wee bit to something I said earlier about going to Murrayfield. They have track side accessible seating which I’ve been in but the best place I’ve personally had is in two locations in the main stand that sits level to where the coaches sit watching the game. It’s a great view, is nice and dry and has a number of spaces for wheelchairs and a companion, also has seats behind if like me you have kids wanting to or needing to sit with you. It’s serviced by one lift that’s big enough for one wheelchair and a couple of people standing. Never any great issue getting in and up the two flights it takes you. Go in the main entrance of Murrayfield to get to it. Most people don’t arrive at the same time and not really huge queues at the end to get out.

My visit to Murrayfield when we played Hearts there was a major disappointment, shit view pitchside miles from the action, no access to a proper toilet but a portaloo outside.
The problem I have mainly with Ibrox is the availability of accessible tickets for games. There is an impossibility long queue for season ticket in accessible area and simply so few match to match tickets to be had. The area in the old enclosure is not the greatest position to view anything with stewards and police constantly in the road.

It's absolutely beyond scandalous, there is simply no defence whatsoever for the lack of action over the decades. I genuinely believe now that we will see it being tackled, not as quickly as we would like probably but tackled nonetheless for no other reason than they know they have no option.

The club at times want to make a big deal about helping kids with disabilities or veterans who have been injured but it doesn’t really show that in the facilities that are on offer if I’m being honest.

This is something that has always made me feel uncomfortable as it painted an extremely false picture of the reality, basically wheeling someone out for some PR pics then discarding them when they'd served their purpose. We told the club in no uncertain terms that we did not feel included in the Everyone Anyone stuff, they actually photoshoped and cropped wheelchairs and wheelchair fans out of the PR photos, they didn't engage with the Disability Matters Group or the Rangers Disabled Club. The fancy video they made conspicuously omitted the disabled from the list of those that shouldn't be discriminated against.

Somebody above mentioned about these things cost money and yeah that’s right but there is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to treat disabled people equally and there are obligations in that to ensure things should be on a more level playingfield for people who need their requirements met

Yes there's a financial cost but in my decades of dealing with the club on this issue to me the bigger barrier to improvements has been a complete and total lack of will and a deeply ingrained mindset (with a few honourable individual exceptions), they readily enough acknowledged the shortcomings but just did virtually nothing to address them.

That's why I view the the recent AGM as heralding a sea change in the clubs attitude and I really do believe we will begin to see major progress though perhaps not as fast as we would like but advancement as opposed to the status quo.

The new DAO has a bit of a poisoned chalice on his hands but appears to me so far to a very welcome addition and is light years ahead of what we had previously.
I don’t know for instance if there is a separate more descriptive commentary for blind people or is it just the TV commentary from RTV which only really lends its self to the pictures you see as it’s not descriptive enough.

There is and while I've never personally heard it the Blind Party speak highly of it.

A reasonable adjustment as I said above could be deemed as reducing the capacity of seats to ensure there was appropriate facilities for disabled people. Maybe needs a group of disabled fans to get together and really be more vocal about this and get the help of MPs/MSP or challenge it in court under the equality act. The old excuse about the club doing it’s best perhaps doesn’t wash

For years I too thought that the only way to get the club to take the issue seriously and force change would be to do like you say and go down the legal route and several times over the years I along with others were on the cusp of doing so.

As I've said previously I firmly believe we will now start travelling down the road we need to travel simply because the board have reached the conclusion they have no option.
 
Just to add.

The club need to be hearing from disabled fans who currently get tickets or are season tickets to know what’s needed in the ground to aid them but also the huge number of disabled bears who can’t get to games due to no tickets for a real balanced view.

Believe me they do hear they absolutely do hear and have heard and now they're not just hearing they're finally actually listening!
I know it’s changing when the new Edmiston build is finished but even on a week day going to the club shop the rake of the ramp added to the slight hill that the forcourt is on I find difficult with my disability to propel my chair into it myself.

I'm the same with the ramp in the West Enclosure, seems to get steeper after every game!
I think this would fall into the auspices of the GCC but things like dropped kerbs and road surfaces around the ground are not great either. A couple of crossings wouldn’t go amiss either

All these issues are known to the club and are raised continuously with them, the surface of the tarmac on the stadium footprint has been shocking for years, wheelchair access to and from the Albion, dropped kerbs and crossings on Edmiston drive all these issues have been raised ad infinitum.
 
We should be leading the way in terms of facilities for our disabled fans,many of whom endure alot of obstacles just to get to the statium.it should be made welcoming and a pleasure to attend not a hardship.
That goes for every stadium in Scotland.
 
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