Do we now need a dedicated set piece coach?

A coach? I’ll start :D
Try to time your jump. Avoid heading the ball on the way down. Takes all the power away and makes you look a dick.
Try to direct your header, not just the way you are facing at the time.
Try to start your run, away from where the balls expected. Running onto it creates power on the header rather than a static jump against a giant, plus it’s easier than shuffling backwards and losing momentum.
Always assume the ball won’t just land on your head, you may have to move.
Liaise with the corner taker, get him to signal where it’s going.
Corner taker, try and put the cross where you signalled. See that opponent standing in front of you, don’t hit him with the ball.
Use your forehead rather than the side or top of your head. This means you can see where you are aiming.
Put someone beyond the back post for overhits, ie mishit crosses sailing over everyone’s head.
Concentrate on attacking the ball, not wrestling your opponent.

Once all this is achieved we may have to bring in a set piece coach for more advanced stuff such as elbowing, pushing, shoving and diving properly.
 
If Lawrence had caught that first corner cleanly we'd all be talking about how much better our corners were tonight

Have to agree that Yilmaz offers nothing when he hits a corner - never seen anyone hit the first man so consistently

Tav is inconsistent from corners but normally has 2 or 3 good deliveries a game. He's let down by our inability to properly attack the ball
 
We need Ridvan away from corners, he cant cross a moving ball nevermind a deadball and they got two very quick attacks out him yesterday. we are so one sided when ridvan plays
 
We had a good wee thing under Gerrard where big Aribo would run to the near post and flick it on, never worked all the time but we scored a few using it. I’d like to see Lundstram take the corners on the right with his left, maybe Lawrence on the other corner, leaves the full backs near the half way line as they have pace to get back especially Ridvan. We need to be more creative with set pieces I agree, but the delivery has to be good too, too many can’t beat the first man.
 
Just an observation. This thread very quickly turned from set pieces to corners.

I do agree with every single point on our lack of threat from corners but for me it is a set piece issue. Unless we are within shooting distance with a free kick then every other set piece is poor. Throw ins are almost always back the way, so many free kicks are the same. I get the desire to retain the ball but in so many cases we do not even consider an alternative.
 
Yes definitely. It's not just that we don't score from corners, we don't even come close the vast majority of times.
 
Put two men on corners. One to roll it and the other to hit it in the box.
It's a lot easier to get pace and power on a moving ball.
 
Set pieces are cheaply earned goals and give the opportunity, especially in tight games or when not playing well, to entirely change or open up matches.

That we normally have so many set pieces that come to nothing is wasteful.

It seems in most games not only do we rarely score from corners we rarely even threaten or get the first touch.

Last night we took it up a level where for the whole game we looked more likely to lose a goal from our own corners rather than score ourselves, and so it turned out.
 
GersLoyal74 said:
Maybe like most people I'm a bit disappointed going out last night as I felt Benfica were there for the taking, but overall I think it will help us achieve the league title which is always my number 1 target at the start of the season.

Anyway I remember big Phil being asked about bringing in a set piece coach a few weeks back and he said something like, not now as he enjoys doing it too much.

However do we now think we need to bring someone in?

I was hugely frustrated over both legs that their keeper looked suspect and yet not once did we try an inswinging corner. Every one was out the way.

We barely score from them and last night our defending position at our corners was mental

Is it time to bring in a dedicated set piece coach?

This is not a criticism of big Phil. I love the big baldy Begian. But perhaps some extra support and ingenuity might be good.

Thoughts bears?
Click to expand...
Yes we do but can we afford one?
 
100% we need a Set Piece Coach
Clement was asked several weeks ago and said he didn't think so as he would enjoy organising them but I'm sorry we need someone in to focus on it as we are so bad. We don't even make contact with a Corner and that's if it gets past the 1st man.
Last night ending up defending and giving away Goal after we were taking a Corner is criminal.
Hearts showed how to work corners well against them a few weeks ago so it can be done
 
GersLoyal74 said:
Maybe like most people I'm a bit disappointed going out last night as I felt Benfica were there for the taking, but overall I think it will help us achieve the league title which is always my number 1 target at the start of the season.

Anyway I remember big Phil being asked about bringing in a set piece coach a few weeks back and he said something like, not now as he enjoys doing it too much.

However do we now think we need to bring someone in?

I was hugely frustrated over both legs that their keeper looked suspect and yet not once did we try an inswinging corner. Every one was out the way.

We barely score from them and last night our defending position at our corners was mental

Is it time to bring in a dedicated set piece coach?

This is not a criticism of big Phil. I love the big baldy Begian. But perhaps some extra support and ingenuity might be good.

Thoughts bears?
Click to expand...

Simply answer: undoubtedly asap
 
its basics we dont do , one at the front , one at the back and the rest spread out not making the same run
 
Hoojar McKinney said:
Given what we often hear about marginal gains in elite sport, we're currently getting a very poor return from the (literally) hundreds of corners we win.

Might have been H&H or the Rangers Review, but sure I heard yesterday we've scored 4 goals from nearly 350 corners this season. Even a small improvement on that could be the difference in a tight run-in.
Click to expand...
So the 350 corner kicks was over-stated, but still makes for pretty grim reading...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768683296156742013
 
DeeGer10 said:
It certainly wouldn’t make us any worse however you can’t score from a corner when Ridvan can’t beat the first man on 90% of them.
Click to expand...
Don't understand why we don't have one of our bigger players as the first man? Just crowd the near post if there's a good chance he isn't getting it over the first man. Win the flick on like Aribo used to do really well.
 
If it's Clement who is behind this then he needs to work a lot better at it.

We are an absolute shambles when it comes to this. Complete waste of time.
 
Even at my level we have the players given specific jobs. Nobody in the space that the players attacking the ball go into, 4 players at the back of the D - 3 attack, front middle and back and the fourth drops out to the edge of the D. A player starts behind the keeper and moves in front plus a player at he back of the box for overhit corners. The full back goes for the short and if 1 player comes out play around him and if 2 come out in leaves more space in the box. 2 men back.
 
With pretty much 1 game per week for the rest of the season there should be more time available to work on things in training during the week. Hopefully this is at the top of the list.
 
I don't know how many seasons I've been saying this for now. We aren't very good at corners and also look very suspect at defending corners although we get away with it more than often in Scotland. Something that definitely needs improved and worked on in the summer.
 
BlackfordLoyal said:
Way out of our league now Austin has built his CV up over the last few years well and once he leaves Villa it's going to be a top 2 team in the EPL or the like of Bayern, Real etc.

Most goals scored via set pieces across Europe this season and key part in Villas success this season
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Great for him. A career in football 90% of us would snap the hand off for.

I guess he'll just need to do the Nickelback impersonations as a hobby now, rather than a job :))
 
It’s actually unbelievable that a club of our size doesn’t have one. I see today that Chelsea are going to hire Brentford’s set piece coach at the end of this season, a guy called Bernardo Cueva.
The Athletic podcast done a piece on him recently he’s some kind of acknowledged genius in the area, i couldn’t explain what he does but by all accounts Brentford have the best set pieces in the league.

It’s far more complicated than just inswinger or out swinger at corners.
 
We definitely need one as we need to get more creative. I liked the one we took the other night with the low ball to the edge of the box and Lawrence scuffed his shot, but we don't have enough of that variety in our corners
 
If Beale was still in charge it would be a massive drama just because he isn't doesn't excuse how bad we are at them surely a team like us should put massive effort in to thesexas we get so many
 
You look at other clubs in uk/Europe, quite a lot of them have dedicated coaches for this. In the modern game it’s defo needed and it’s one area under clement we seem to be very shite in.
 
Ambiorix said:
Fans expect too much from corners. Statistically, across the game, a goal only results from about 1 in 70 of them.

On a related note, I wish someone would teach Ridvan how to do a throw-in properly. I'm always expecting the ref to award a foul throw against him.
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It’s a funny stat as it is measured in different ways. One is direct play from the corner itself which is probably corner-header-goal or corner-goal which gets about 2-5% conversion rate. But if you take the extended play around a corner such as corner-clearance-shot-goal it does go much higher to about 5-12%. And other than a penalty, a corner is the best chance of scoring, especially if possession is low.

Our scoring from corners isn’t great, we’re very average (which given we’re a top side is poor) but we were one of the worst at conceding from corners, though that is definitely improved under PC, at one point we were running at 1 in 6 corners conceding a goal… that’s abysmal.

We definitely need some attacking set piece coaching.
 
I can't understand why no one ever questions Clement on our horrendous record from corner kicks. We've had about 100 since and including the Ross County game at Ibrox and barely ever looked like scoring from any of them.
If we do get a decent ball into the box our players rarely attack the ball.
 
GersLoyal74 said:
Maybe like most people I'm a bit disappointed going out last night as I felt Benfica were there for the taking, but overall I think it will help us achieve the league title which is always my number 1 target at the start of the season.

Anyway I remember big Phil being asked about bringing in a set piece coach a few weeks back and he said something like, not now as he enjoys doing it too much.

However do we now think we need to bring someone in?

I was hugely frustrated over both legs that their keeper looked suspect and yet not once did we try an inswinging corner. Every one was out the way.

We barely score from them and last night our defending position at our corners was mental

Is it time to bring in a dedicated set piece coach?

This is not a criticism of big Phil. I love the big baldy Begian. But perhaps some extra support and ingenuity might be good.

Thoughts bears?
Click to expand...
All we need is a couple of players who can actually swing in a dangerous cross now and then.
 
DeeGer10 said:
It certainly wouldn’t make us any worse however you can’t score from a corner when Ridvan can’t beat the first man on 90% of them.
Click to expand...
Not just Yilmaz, Tav too.

Our corners are generally dreadful and have been for quite some time.

Does a ‘set piece specialist’ fix that? Who knows, but how difficult is it for a professional footballer to hit a decent corner?
 
HandsomeHead said:
Not just Yilmaz, Tav too.

Our corners are generally dreadful and have been for quite some time.

Does a ‘set piece specialist’ fix that? Who knows, but how difficult is it for a professional footballer to hit a decent corner?
Click to expand...
Tav for the most part hits a very good corner, he has done for most of this time here. Yilmaz shouldn’t be anywhere near them he’s not got a good corner delivery in him. A set piece specialist helps at any club tbh, the players will have set piece routines they can go to during the game. Right now it looks like we get tav or yilmaz to hit a ball in and we hope for the best.
 
We are more likely to lose a goal when we take a corner when the opposition win the ball and break.
Also we cant defend a corner. Dont face our goal but face out to attack a ball going to an opposition player. Goldson own goal a case in point but to be fair it could have been any defender in the wrong position. When taking do in swingers away from the keeper. Out swingers are easier to clear by a defender.
 
RFC56 said:
Tav for the most part hits a very good corner, he has done for most of this time here. Yilmaz shouldn’t be anywhere near them he’s not got a good corner delivery in him. A set piece specialist helps at any club tbh, the players will have set piece routines they can go to during the game. Right now it looks like we get tav or yilmaz to hit a ball in and we hope for the best.
Click to expand...
Personally I’ve lost count of the number of corners Tav hits that are met by the head of an opposition defender, quite often at the near post.

I will say though that with the possible exception of Souttar, we have very few players who actually look like they want to get on the end of our corners and I do think that’s also part of the issue.
 
GersLoyal74 said:
Maybe like most people I'm a bit disappointed going out last night as I felt Benfica were there for the taking, but overall I think it will help us achieve the league title which is always my number 1 target at the start of the season.

Anyway I remember big Phil being asked about bringing in a set piece coach a few weeks back and he said something like, not now as he enjoys doing it too much.

However do we now think we need to bring someone in?

I was hugely frustrated over both legs that their keeper looked suspect and yet not once did we try an inswinging corner. Every one was out the way.

We barely score from them and last night our defending position at our corners was mental

Is it time to bring in a dedicated set piece coach?

This is not a criticism of big Phil. I love the big baldy Begian. But perhaps some extra support and ingenuity might be good.

Thoughts bears?
Click to expand...
It should be a criticism of Phil - since he came in we have had 6,839 corners we took 32 inswingers in 3 games scored from one - and he goes back to cra+p
 
Yes we do. Most EPL clubs will have one and I suspect other big teams do too. It’s quite a niche role but getting free possession is something we should be making more of. Also does a set piece coach work on defending set pieces?
 
HandsomeHead said:
Personally I’ve lost count of the number of corners Tav hits that are met by the head of an opposition defender, quite often at the near post.

I will say though that with the possible exception of Souttar, we have very few players who actually look like they want to get on the end of our corners and I do think that’s also part of the issue.
Click to expand...
They might be met by the head of the opposition but the vast majority of his corner deliveries are put into good areas. We don’t have anyone good at attacking them meaning they are met by the defender.

When Gerrard was here and we had culshaw on set pieces we were the best in the league at attacking them for 2/3 years. With the likes of Goldson still here from then, he was good at attacking then back then. Sometimes players just need some guidance, and I think set pieces is one of they areas.
 
Miko's Warm Up said:
No we don't. Phil said he takes that element. Move on.
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Yeah, that’s the danger of hero worship. The weaknesses are glossed over.

Alex Ferguson is on record as saying one of the defining moments of his managerial career was when Knox said he was going back to Forfar (?) as it was pointless him being there on the training pitch. I believe Ferguson’s wife also told him he had to delegate.

If Clement is taking sole responsibility, he inherits total accountability.

And we are rotten at set pieces.
 
People say you score from a low % but it's not just goals, it feeds through the whole team.

A team that does well at set pieces is gonna be strong, tall, physical, goes beyond just scoring from more corners.
 
TonyAtTheBing said:
People say you score from a low % but it's not just goals, it feeds through the whole team.

A team that does well at set pieces is gonna be strong, tall, physical, goes beyond just scoring from more corners.
Click to expand...
The % may be relatively low but there tends to be a lot of corners in a game. Getting to 5% conversion when we can regularly get 20 corners in a game is likely giving you 1 goal per game. There’s almost nothing else you can do that will give you such a solid return, especially since you can still win a lot of corners when out of possession.

Teams should be terrified of conceding a corner against us and they just aren’t. If they had that fear, they’d play us differently and leave other doors open. Same goes for our defence too, we were imperious in the 55 season as we “knew” we’d deal with set pieces. Strength at set pieces builds confidence.
 
Have to say our ineptitude at corners is staggering.
We have reached the point where we may as well give the opposition a goal kick instead.
The out swinging corners are not being delivered properly and not being received properly either.
We have to approach these is a completely different way.
Start afresh break them down into separate component parts.
I’d look for someone other than Tav and Yilmaz to take them.
 
Number 4 said:
Yeah, that’s the danger of hero worship. The weaknesses are glossed over.

Alex Ferguson is on record as saying one of the defining moments of his managerial career was when Knox said he was going back to Forfar (?) as it was pointless him being there on the training pitch. I believe Ferguson’s wife also told him he had to delegate.

If Clement is taking sole responsibility, he inherits total accountability.

And we are rotten at set pieces.
Click to expand...

It goes like this on here.

Clement can't do any wrong at the moment. Hero worship is a good turn of phrase for it.

He's been excellent so far without a doubt but we made this mistake under Gerrard, and then under Beale, where we gave them the keys to the Kingdom.

Firstly with Gerrard when he point blank refused to cash in on any assets after 55, then when Beale had free reign to waste £20m on players he knew from about 10 years ago.

I hope our board have realised that a functioning football department each has its own roles and there's no point allowing the head of one department to railroad the others.
 
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