Does clement need to win the final

We need to win the SC, if Clement does groundhog day then he deserves all the abuse heading his way.
 
He doesn't need to win it to keep his job.He will feel personally that he needs to win it I would imagine.
I do wish our players would stop f#ck9ng up and not make catastrophic errors that assist them right enough.Whether extremely careless play, defensive howlers, misssing sitters or red cards etc we just don't help ourselves at all.
 
JCDarcheville said:
Did you read the other thread?

Yilmaz was fit, he came on and should have started. If he had to come off after half time and it’s 0-0, that’s an improvement on where we were. That game was the season, leaving someone on the bench was madness.

Lawrence is nowhere near as good a player as cantwell, who only a couple of weeks ago was our creator in a semi final.

So neither of your arguments hold to logic, or at least the kind of logic our manager should be applying.

My team would have been:

Butland
Tav Souttar Davies yilmaz
Lundstram Sterling Diomande
Cantwell Dessers silva

If Lawrence was going to play, it had to be in the forward 3, not in midfield.

The managers’ loyalty to lundstram at raskin’s expense meant raskin couldn’t really be considered, I’m hoping that being forced means we can use him instead of lundstram in the cup final, as well as Sima ahead of Dessers.
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Not sure how many times this needs said ffs.

YILMAZ WAS NOT FIT ENOUGH TO START.

In what world do you think the manager would leave a fully fit Yilmaz out for the guy he’s had as THIRD choice left back behind Yilmaz and Sterling?

As for Cantwell, If he starts him and gets the same nothing performance we’ve been getting from him the last couple of months, you would have been on here screaming “Lawrence has been brilliant when he’s came on, he should have started”

You can clutch at straws to find reasons to blame the manager all day, but here are the reasons we struggled yesterday:-

EIGHT first XI regulars injured or unfit to play 90

Lack of threat in the box

Second top goal scorer injured

Team saturated with loser mentality

John Lundstram

Michael Beale
 
Regardless of the cup final, I believe if Clement is backed properly in the summer, he'll get us back on top, I think the tramps know he is a good manager, and they'll be hoping we revolt on him,
He knows this team are gutless, he's just never going to say so considering the stage of the season.
This team are hanging themselves out to dry, so when they find themselves not part of his plans for next season he can let them know why.
 
Fife Bear said:
He won't be sacked if he doesnt but he's going to start to lose the fans if we don't
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If he loses the fans he will be a dead man walking. I still think he can and will turn things around but he needs to be ruthless in the summer in getting shot of the underperforming core we have
 
midlandbear said:
Not sure how many times this needs said ffs.

YILMAZ WAS NOT FIT ENOUGH TO START.

In what world do you think the manager would leave a fully fit Yilmaz out for the guy he’s had as THIRD choice left back behind Yilmaz and Sterling?

As for Cantwell, If he starts him and gets the same nothing performance we’ve been getting from him the last couple of months, you would have been on here screaming “Lawrence has been brilliant when he’s came on, he should have started”

You can clutch at straws to find reasons to blame the manager all day, but here are the reasons we struggled yesterday:-

EIGHT first XI regulars injured or unfit to play 90

Lack of threat in the box

Second top goal scorer injured

Team saturated with loser mentality

John Lundstram

Michael Beale
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Capital letters or not, Yilmaz didn’t look unfit to play when he came on (unsurprisingly he improved us). What was he being saved for? If he didn’t last the 90, he’d still have been better starting. Hes been training for 2 weeks and came off the bench over a week ago.

As for Lawrence, no you’re wrong. I, and many others said before the game he was a ridiculous selection, especially as part of midfield 3.

Our manager doesn’t have it easy. He does have an inefficient forward line and a lot of injuries. However, the his job is to get the most from what he has… he has failed since the Benfica loss to do that, with bizarre team selections and long ball tactics, which against a side with a half decent midfield results in wave after wave of attack to defend.

Lundstram and Beale are also culpable, but Clement is not blameless, as much as you’re desperate for him to be.
 
JCDarcheville said:
Capital letters or not, Yilmaz didn’t look unfit to play when he came on (unsurprisingly he improved us). What was he being saved for? If he didn’t last the 90, he’d still have been better starting. Hes been training for 2 weeks and came off the bench over a week ago.

As for Lawrence, no you’re wrong. I, and many others said before the game he was a ridiculous selection, especially as part of midfield 3.

Our manager doesn’t have it easy. He does have an inefficient forward line and a lot of injuries. However, the his job is to get the most from what he has… he has failed since the Benfica loss to do that, with bizarre team selections and long ball tactics, which against a side with a half decent midfield results in wave after wave of attack to defend.

Lundstram and Beale are also culpable, but Clement is not blameless, as much as you’re desperate for him to be.
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Mate I respect you as a bear, but saying he “looked fit” when he came on is ridiculous. You are making a snap judgement (through anger) from your TV screen and ruling out what our manager, coaching staff and sport science guys see every day and know about the players fitness.

You are not qualified to make an assessment on a players overall condition, based on how he “looks” when he comes on as a sub.

This forum is full of professional coaches and fitness experts it seems. I’ve seen a fanny but it doesn’t make me a gynecologist.
 
midlandbear said:
Mate I respect you as a bear, but saying he “looked fit” when he came on is ridiculous. You are making a snap judgement (through anger) from your TV screen and ruling out what our manager, coaching staff and sport science guys see every day and know about the players fitness.

You are not qualified to make an assessment on a players overall condition, based on how he “looks” when he comes on as a sub.

This forum is full of professional coaches and fitness experts it seems. I’ve seen a fanny but it doesn’t make me a gynecologist.
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Ffs man. He came on and made a positive contribution.

Therefore, he was proven able to do so.
 
Apart from the league cup win which was a great day and much needed his points to games ratio is worse then Gio and Beale.
He simply has to win the Scottish Cup and if he picks Lundstram (assuming he isn't banned) he will get stick regardless
 
I still cant understand his game plans or substitutions.
We just seemed to lump the ball forward all day rather than play neat attacking football.
Also get fed up with his silly comments like closing the points gap, only team to beat Kilmarnock and moral victories.
 
This isn’t going to be popular but it’s the cold hard truth nevertheless about where we are now in this fixture…all Clement has to do at Hampden..very much like yesterday’s match is to avoid getting an absolute drubbing. They are quite simply the better outfit, more skill, more know how, more threatening middle to front and more desire as well. They very rarely fail to turn up for these game’s and have a manager and player’s with an insatiable appetite for piling on as much misery as they possibly can in these games. The absolutely SICK, VILE and utterly RIDICULOUS era continues and it looks like the mismanagement and folly of not pushing on from the 55 season is going to bite us for INSERT…how many more years?
 
JRei23 said:
If he loses the fans he will be a dead man walking. I still think he can and will turn things around but he needs to be ruthless in the summer in getting shot of the underperforming core we have
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That needs to start in the 3 games. Show he’s learned from his mistakes, play players he trusts and find the winning side for the cup final.
 
This cup final he'll get a pass on. There are too many among us who will say wait till it's his team.

He'll need to win one of his next 2 league games against them for me or he's taking a seat in the departure lounge and he's just waiting on his gate being called.

This cup final we need to see 'something'.

If the cup final sees him again pick Sterling for right wing and Lundstram is brought back in to the starting midfield... Then I think we are fecked and we might have backed the wrong horse - again.
 
It will be telling if Clement goes for the same inept formation and tactics for the final.

I fully expect him to play Lundstram and Diomande as a midfield two despite the fact that they have been over run in the last two rattler games.

We will play not to get beat as opposed to playing to win. I realise that the squad is on its knees with injury but Clement has to try something different.
 
Davie Weir said:
That needs to start in the 3 games. Show he’s learned from his mistakes, play players he trusts and find the winning side for the cup final.
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I'd agree but he needs to bring in his own players
We've said that about the last few managers and here we are again
 
JRei23 said:
I'd agree but he needs to bring in his own players
We've said that about the last few managers and here we are again
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He does of course.

But the way he’s setting up and playing with the players at his disposal is currently below par. Rightly or wrongly, if he fails on his 4th attempt to set up differently and beat Celtic then fans will lose belief.
 
Irrespective of whether or not he wins he’ll be here next season.

That being said, he does ‘need’ to win the game. He needs to get a win against them before going into next season.
 
Regardless of your opinion on Clement it's becoming clear that the Rangers job, though still a great honour, is becoming a role that operates under near impossible circumstances.

For the 3rd season in a row the rumblings have started that their are doubts about the manager - a lot of these are caveated with "I'm not saying I want him sacked" but it's inevitably going to end up that way as confirmation bias will start to kick in and any error or dropped point will just embolden this opinion.

We're in a cycle of binning managers mid season to work with squads who have been put together using truly terrible recruitment and has suffered awful squad management.

I can't believe we're here again.
 
Davie Weir said:
He does of course.

But the way he’s setting up and playing with the players at his disposal is currently below par. Rightly or wrongly, if he fails on his 4th attempt to set up differently and beat Celtic then fans will lose belief.
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Plenty of fans will still give him time , maybe the majority of fans will.

Who knows
 
Earth Worm Jim said:
I can't believe people are describing an old firm final as a free hit when we have failed to win the previous 3

Is that really where we are?
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The idea that Clement will go into next season having not beaten them in four games, lost a final against them and with the fifth to take place at Parkhead where we've been utterly hopeless outside of Gerrard and people will just go "blank slate/free hit" is just fantasy land stuff.

Who was the last manager to fail to win an OF in their first calendar year ?

I don't think it's happened in my lifetime, even for that mob.
 
midlandbear said:
Not sure how many times this needs said ffs.

YILMAZ WAS NOT FIT ENOUGH TO START.

In what world do you think the manager would leave a fully fit Yilmaz out for the guy he’s had as THIRD choice left back behind Yilmaz and Sterling?

As for Cantwell, If he starts him and gets the same nothing performance we’ve been getting from him the last couple of months, you would have been on here screaming “Lawrence has been brilliant when he’s came on, he should have started”

You can clutch at straws to find reasons to blame the manager all day, but here are the reasons we struggled yesterday:-

EIGHT first XI regulars injured or unfit to play 90

Lack of threat in the box

Second top goal scorer injured

Team saturated with loser mentality

John Lundstram

Michael Beale
Click to expand...
Every day mate well said.
As for OP no he doesn't need to win it.
 
CraigMoore3 said:
Regardless of your opinion on Clement it's becoming clear that the Rangers job, though still a great honour, is becoming a role that operates under near impossible circumstances.

For the 3rd season in a row the rumblings have started that their are doubts about the manager - a lot of these are caveated with "I'm not saying I want him sacked" but it's inevitably going to end up that way as confirmation bias will start to kick in and any error or dropped point will just embolden this opinion.

We're in a cycle of binning managers mid season to work with squads who have been put together using truly terrible recruitment and has suffered awful squad management.

I can't believe we're here again.
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The Rangers job will never change. You win the old firms and you are a success, if you don't then eventually it ends in losing the job. We are never going to become a Brentford or Brighton were a manager can build a project over 3-4 years while getting beat.

Gerrard got time but he also won 2 of the 4 old firms in his first season in management. It gave the fans the feeling that if he could get the better of them it wouldn't be too long before he got a league title.
 
IbroxMainStand said:
The Rangers job will never change. You win the old firms and you are a success, if you don't then eventually it ends in losing the job. We are never going to become a Brentford or Brighton were a manager can build a project over 3-4 years while getting beat.

Gerrard got time but he also won 2 of the 4 old firms in his first season in management. It gave the fans the feeling that if he could get the better of them it wouldn't be too long before he got a league title.
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Gerrard was appointed pre-season and got a full rebuild from scratch.

Whatever happens we have to stop appointing managers mid season, we're in constant loop of failure doing it.
 
A1bertz said:
This cup final he'll get a pass on. There are too many among us who will say wait till it's his team.

He'll need to win one of his next 2 league games against them for me or he's taking a seat in the departure lounge and he's just waiting on his gate being called.

This cup final we need to see 'something'.

If the cup final sees him again pick Sterling for right wing and Lundstram is brought back in to the starting midfield... Then I think we are fecked and we might have backed the wrong horse - again.
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We will go into an OF hoping to "see something" as in a defeat but seeing "something" and taking a positive from that?
 
CraigMoore3 said:
Gerrard was appointed pre-season and got a full rebuild from scratch.

Whatever happens we have to stop appointing managers mid season, we're in constant loop of failure doing it.
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I completely agree, but I hope this is clearly appreciated by those backing Clement as well.
 
JMCK said:
I completely agree, but I hope this is clearly appreciated by those backing Clement as well.
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He's on his way to losing the hearts and minds of the support though with his OF record.

Rangers fans will just not have a manager that cannot beat Celtic.

I'm not going to argue that point obviously, my wider question is what do we do next? Get another guy in in September/October to firefight with a failing squad?

People are basically happy to give Clement the rebuild but it's all going to come down to 1 OF game (1st one next season) - what kind of plan is that?
 
CraigMoore3 said:
Gerrard was appointed pre-season and got a full rebuild from scratch.

Whatever happens we have to stop appointing managers mid season, we're in constant loop of failure doing it.
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I totally agree the Oct/Nov appointments never work as unless they win the league they carry the baggage of bad results into the new season and it becomes impossible.

What we really need to stop is handing out multi year contracts to managers. It needs to be shorter term deals that don't cost us millions if it goes wrong.
 
CraigMoore3 said:
Gerrard was appointed pre-season and got a full rebuild from scratch.

Whatever happens we have to stop appointing managers mid season, we're in constant loop of failure doing it.
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There was a genuine argument that this time around we could've held fire, took our time and completely rebuilt the footballing structure at the club and appointed a manager at the end of the season(or even announced him mid season to take charge in the summer). The mess Beale and the board caused in the summer virtually called for it.

That Clement came in and for five months had us dreaming of what seemed impossible when he arrived is a huge plus point for him. Not a lot of managers could've done it.

TBH I think fans are so pigsick of this squad that they're almost willing to ignore or excuse failings on the managers part lately. Perfectly understandable but doesn't do us any favours.

The leadership group are done here. But as a team we look a riot tactically and in terms of structure. How many times did Celtic waltz through us as if we weren't there yesterday ? That can't just be on the players. Neither can the amount of times we just go long in the corners with diagonals be all on them. It's got to be instructional.

I guess your perception on whose fault that is depends on where you stand. For me, it's both.
 
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IbroxMainStand said:
I totally agree the Oct/Nov appointments never work as unless they win the league they carry the baggage of bad results into the new season and it becomes impossible.

What we really need to stop is handing out multi year contracts to managers. It needs to be shorter term deals that don't cost us millions if it goes wrong.
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The problem with that though is when you burn through managers you get a reputation - managers will then only take the job on a long term deal or with terms that include a bumper pay off.
 
CraigMoore3 said:
He's on his way to losing the hearts and minds of the support though with his OF record.

Rangers fans will just not have a manager that cannot beat Celtic.

I'm not going to argue that point obviously, my wider question is what do we do next? Get another guy in in September/October to firefight with a failing squad?

People are basically happy to give Clement the rebuild but it's all going to come down to 1 OF game (1st one next season) - what kind of plan is that?
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I agree, but again we could be in this situation come November. I am not convinced by Clement, but we cannot sack a manager during the season, and it's not great that it seems something that happens if he loses ground in the early part. We need to be clear who leads us next season, and make sure we have that person throughout the season, in my opinion.
 
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