European Super League Officially Announced - All Comments In This Thread - Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Spurs & Chelsea all out of it

Jelle1880 said:
Fans get punished all the times for failings of the club.
If the club goes bankrupt or gets demoted it's them that suffer.

It sucks but I'm pretty sure many normal fans would accept things like a point deduction as a warning that their club can't pull shit like this in the future.
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Indeed.

If an owner is good and pumps money into a club, allowing the manager to spend and buys some success, it is not the owner who gets to revel in it alone, it is the support that take the glory and enjoyment.

When that same owner fucks up you cannot just cut them out of the picture and blame them, while sympathizing with the support.


When Rangers went through our issues in 2012 we had people like McCoist saying out loud and in public that we accepted that punishment had to be handed down and that we would accept it. The level of blood-letting involved was staggering and disproportionate in the extreme, but nobody at Rangers ever tried to make an argument that we should not have seen some sanctions and the club made it clear we were willing to play ball. The level of sanctions handed down was unbelievably out of kilter with precedent and with natural justice.



I have not really seen anyone suggest massive sanctions for these 6 clubs. The consensus seems to be around the 12 month ban from the CL. That level of punishment does nothing more than relegate the support to being like 14 other fanbases in the EPL for a season; Not what they are used to, but hardly cruel and unusual.


Punishments for things like going into admin exist by mutual consensus and are there to prevent clubs doing the wrong thing, whether it is poor ownership or bad luck. Nobody has suggested it is a bad idea because it really needs to happen to stop pre-pack admin and people taking advantage of loose rules. This is no different. The clubs need to be punished, proportionately, in order to head off things like this happening again next year.
 
Duranman said:
They should still be facing sanctions. They have only pulled out as they have shat themselves after fan reaction.
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Firstly, not one of the clubs should get a penny in UEFA prize money this season. And that is only for starters. If I'm UEFA, I'm looking at the national associations to sanction them all to the maximum of their legal powers. In fact, I might be threatening to ban national associations altogether from UEFA competitions if they do not stand firm and hammer these rebels.
 
steve1873 said:
Firstly, not one of the clubs should get a penny in UEFA prize money this season. And that is only for starters. If I'm UEFA, I'm looking at the national associations to sanction them all to the maximum of their legal powers. In fact, I might be threatening to ban national associations altogether from UEFA competitions if they do not stand firm and hammer these rebels.
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that isn’t going to happen, Ceferin has been very conciliatory in his statements and he’s not burned any bridges.
 
Smkz23 said:
that isn’t going to happen, Ceferin has been very conciliatory in his statements and he’s not burned any bridges.
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It would not fall to him or UEFA to begin with, although they would/could step in down the line if needed. It would be down to the home FA to decide if they were sanctioning the clubs in the first instance and I think that UEFA will probably step back and allow that to happen.
 
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CoopBlue said:
Just checked on Juventus.

Went up around 11% on Monday, has dropped by 11% on opening this morning. So back to the same level they were at close on Friday night.
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Surprised if that price will hold. An earnings door has just been slammed shut and Id expect some investors to have fully priced "growth" based on super league rumours/intentions.
 
El Capitan said:
So these clubs are allowed to sneak back in with no punishment for almost destroying the game. Meanwhile, UEFA approve Champions League changes meaning 30% of revenue will go to the big clubs based on their history in the competition, and 2 extra places will be reserved for them when they fail to qualify through their league.



And this is being sold to us as a victory for football??
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I eagerly await Nev and Carra hammering them for this and how it's unfair etc....or not? It will mean more teams from the big leagues in the big competitions with all of the odds stacked in their favour.

This is why I was pushing the opinion the ESL would actually be fantastic for the clubs left behind. Proper big clubs but in leagues who have been left behind due to the TV money making the Super League Clubs untouchable.

I would go as far as to say that it will be a miracle if Rangers ever play in another Champions League Knockout Phase in our lifetimes. The gap between us and the big leagues is only going to widen.
 

The narrative seems to be now punish the Owners but not the clubs, Nothing is going to happen over this and as most people have predicted it will all be forgotten about by this time next week
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
It would not fall to him or UEFA to begin with, although they would/could step in down the line if needed. It would be down to the home FA to decide if they were sanctioning the clubs in the first instance and I think that UEFA will probably step back and allow that to happen.
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It would be the Premier League in England who would decide any sanctions, not the FA.
 
The UEFA power brokers - whether they are corrupt or principled - should learn the lesson from this that placating and empowering a small handful of mega clubs created this and threatened their own power as well as European football generally.

The solution is to prevent a small minority of clubs ever weilding such influence again. True democratic decision-making might be too much for them, but they should at the very least prevent these clubs presiding over the ECA and UEFA committees and essentially dictating terms. And change the rules to prevent any club having representatives on more than 1 UEFA committee. Ensure that many more clubs are involved in decision making going forward.
 
spaceman2 said:
It's just incredible that these guys think the answer to being in incredible levels of debt is trying to do something desperate like this instead of actually running a more responsible business.

How much are Barca paying Messi alone year on year? How much did Real & Juventus spend on Ronaldo?

Maybe if they stopped spunking ridiculous levels of cash on failed signings like Griezmann, Dembele, Hazard etc they wouldn't be in such dire straights.
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Messi gets £70m just for 'loyalty' - as in seeing out his contract!!??
 
Right then Aleks, lets talk about "... everyone has a chance..."

They need to lead from the front and take power back from these 12 clubs and give everyone else a better share.
 
CoopBlue said:
Just checked on Juventus.

Went up around 11% on Monday, has dropped by 11% on opening this morning. So back to level they were at close on Friday night.
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I wonder if, given how quickly this has fallen apart, there will be any sort of share price manipulation investigation?

A stock jumping and then falling by 11% in space of a few days gives a lot of people the abity to make a lot of money.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Wishful thinking I’m afraid.

UEFA are simply the other side of the same coin - a bunch of corrupt shysters and gangsters only interested in lining their own pockets.

Their outrage stemmed from the indignation that their plans to slice off even more of the pie for themselves was shat on by the big clubs whose greed surpassed that of their own.

The idea that they’ll now withdraw into a period of soul searching and emerge with a brave new egalitarian vision for the game is fanciful in the extreme.
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This was a fight over exactly how to shaft clubs like ours and was f*** all to do with the working man's game. I will respect everyone on here by saying I don't think any true blue believed otherwise.
 
Gazzabear v2.0 said:
How do you punish the clubs without punishing the fans who made them u-turn, its a difficult one.
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The main punishment should be to no longer placate and favour them.

If Liverpool/Man U want to play in the CL, then they should still be able to qualify for it on the field of play - by actually having to qualify instead of getting in automatically for finishing 4th in the EPL.

This would be a financial penalty to these clubs - loss of guaranteed revenue - but not a sporting one, as they could still earn their spot by winning matches on the field.

Reserve guaranteed CL spots for league champions only, as a start. No parachute into Europa if you fail in the CL, etc.
 
Discombob said:
The main punishment should be to no longer placate and favour them.

If Liverpool/Man U want to play in the CL, then they should still be able to qualify for it on the field of play - by actually having to qualify instead of getting in automatically for finishing 4th in the EPL.

This would be a financial penalty to these clubs - loss of guaranteed revenue - but not a sporting one, as they could still earn their spot by winning matches on the field.

Reserve guaranteed CL spots for league champions only, as a start. No parachute into Europa if you fail in the CL, etc.
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Agree with this. There should be a long lasting removal of power from these big clubs. There has to consequences for their actions. More serious consequences than currently being discussed.

There needs to be an acceptance that competition needs to improve. Can’t have an ever richer elite with built in preference for income generated. Must always be a link to achievement on the park and money gained.
 
I must admit I'm confused about how this fiasco actually collapsed (although I'm glad it has)

I won't question the depth of feeling among fans but I'm unconvinced this happened solely due to fans opinions
I mean it's not as if anyone's had time to conduct much of a survey or drum up petitions etc. -
& while I can admire the demo at Stamford Bridge last night - but since when did a fans demo bring about instant changes ?

Another thing that's puzzling me is the T.V. company's role in all of this
The break-away clubs surely wouldn't have got as far down the line as they did without assurances from network providers / broadcasting entities / T.V. companies - that sufficient revenue would be generated to risk this plan or without their commitment to provide an enormous amount of dosh to make it work

I'm not fond of conspiracy theories- apart from their entertainment factor - but there's a lot more to this than is apparent at the moment imo
 
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CoopBlue said:
Just checked on Juventus.

Went up around 11% on Monday, has dropped by 11% on opening this morning. So back to the same level they were at close on Friday night.
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And United down 6% today, again back down to the same levels as before the announcement.

If they all fall back to the same level as before it means the market expects them not to be punished (i.e. no negative financial impact ging forward)-
 
gersandproud said:
I must admit I'm confused about how this fiasco actually collapsed (although I'm glad it has)

I won't question the depth of feeling among fans but I'm unconvinced this happened solely due to fans opinions
I mean it's not as if anyone's had time to conduct much of a survey or drum up petitions etc. -
& while I can admire the demo at Stamford Bridge last night - but since when did a fans demo bring about instant changes ?

Another thing that's puzzling me is the T.V. company's role in all of this
The break-away clubs surely wouldn't have got as far down the line as they did without assurances from network providers that sufficient revenue would be generated to risk this plan or without their commitment to provide an enormous amount of dosh to make it work

I'm not fond of conspiracy theories- apart from their entertainment factor - but there's a lot more to this than is apparent at the moment imo
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IMO the English clubs have withdrawn due to pressure from the UK Government and talk of implementing the German 50+1 model.
 
Football fans now have a couple of years to campaign for this new CL format to be binned.
 
dh1963 said:
Football fans now have a couple of years to campaign for this new CL format to be binned.
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Only fans and pundits who will moan about new format is from nations like ourselves, the rest will lap it up with their 4 automatic spots and potentially more with wildcard and EL winning teams.
 
gersandproud said:
I must admit I'm confused about how this fiasco actually collapsed (although I'm glad it has)

I won't question the depth of feeling among fans but I'm unconvinced this happened solely due to fans opinions
I mean it's not as if anyone's had time to conduct much of a survey or drum up petitions etc. -
& while I can admire the demo at Stamford Bridge last night - but since when did a fans demo bring about instant changes ?

Another thing that's puzzling me is the T.V. company's role in all of this
The break-away clubs surely wouldn't have got as far down the line as they did without assurances from network providers that sufficient revenue would be generated to risk this plan or without their commitment to provide an enormous amount of dosh to make it work

I'm not fond of conspiracy theories- apart from their entertainment factor - but there's a lot more to this than is apparent at the moment imo
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This is not solely down to supporters by any stretch, but the overwhelming level of outrage and opposition from all corners has made the concept untenable.

From a PR standpoint it was disastrous. Any commercial partner seeing the outcry and coverage of that would be nervous. It was challenged and about to go into court via the footballing authorities, leagues, clubs even the government looking to legislate to block it.

If (for example) Sky weren't at the table for broadcast rights and saw the risk to their own lucrative rights for the EPL being harmed, then they were always going to facilitate the media coverage being absolutely toxic towards it, hence giving Neville, etc such free rein to shout it down and whip up opposition.

The EPL clubs going in were arrogant enough to think they'd keep their EPL positions/revenue and get this extra boost - presumably they expected their supporters to think that was wonderful. When they saw the depth of hatred for the idea their own customers had, it's little surprise they realised how ill-thought out and high-risk a plan it was and shat it.

The real beneficiaries look more and more likely to have been the Spanish clubs with astronomical debts and declining audiences/TV deals, while the Yankee owners saw an opportunity but realised it was probably more risk than it was worth.
 
gersandproud said:
I must admit I'm confused about how this fiasco actually collapsed (although I'm glad it has)

I won't question the depth of feeling among fans but I'm unconvinced this happened solely due to fans opinions
I mean it's not as if anyone's had time to conduct much of a survey or drum up petitions etc. -
& while I can admire the demo at Stamford Bridge last night - but since when did a fans demo bring about instant changes ?

Another thing that's puzzling me is the T.V. company's role in all of this
The break-away clubs surely wouldn't have got as far down the line as they did without assurances from network providers that sufficient revenue would be generated to risk this plan or without their commitment to provide an enormous amount of dosh to make it work

I'm not fond of conspiracy theories- apart from their entertainment factor - but there's a lot more to this than is apparent at the moment imo
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I thinking it might be player power in this one.
There's some huge names out there that take great pride in playing for their country (Messi, Ronaldo and Zlatan for instance), and being told they cant compete in international tournaments wouldn't have sat well with them.

it would also potentially have stopped the breakaway clubs from signing some of the worlds best players if they were not allowed to play international football.

10 years down the line you could end up with a league full of mercenaries rather than the worlds top footballing talent
 
UEFA are probably more upset that the super league clubs are stealing their role as mal-administrators of the game.

Don't these clubs realise it is UEFA's job to f*ck up European football?

All will be solved over oysters and fizzy wine at some posh Swiss hotel and then head first into the trough again: side-by-side.
 
Euro Scooter said:
UEFA are probably more upset that the super league clubs are stealing their role as mal-administrators of the game.

Don't these clubs realise it is UEFA's job to f*ck up European football?

All will be solved over oysters and fizzy wine at some posh Swiss hotel and then head first into the trough again: side-by-side.
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UEFA was already under the power of these clubs. Many of these changes to the Champions League were pushed through by the clubs.
 
El Capitan said:
So these clubs are allowed to sneak back in with no punishment for almost destroying the game. Meanwhile, UEFA approve Champions League changes meaning 30% of revenue will go to the big clubs based on their history in the competition, and 2 extra places will be reserved for them when they fail to qualify through their league.



And this is being sold to us as a victory for football??
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So basically a European super league dressed up as the Champions league.
 
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