Goldson and Katic

[Kowloon72]

Despite all the different permutations SG has tried at centre back, we've yet to find a better central defensive partnership than these two. Goldson just looks that bit more comfortable with Katic alongside him.

Will be interesting to see what happens when Helander regains fitness if Goldson and Katic keep these clean sheets coming.

Different permutations? I can only think of two he tried this season and two he tried last.

 

[Jaws II]

Helander has had the better career so far. I think Katic's biggest area that needs to improve is his reading of the game-is that care area in anticipating things that he often gets caught short-when it's blood and snotters he'll knock that out the park. Against Killie he was all over the shop-his timing was out and he was constantly fouling to recover positions in his jumps. Goldson absolutely cruised the game so I'm sorry I don't buy this he makes his partner look good stuff.

Also notable teams are targeting him as the weak link....

Show me all the examples of the goals he has been responsible for due to all these crucial errors you keep repeating he is making.
I can show numerous that Goldson has made and quite a few with Helander, but they don’t receive the same scrutiny.
In this league you don’t have time for CHs to be hesitant on the ball as they try to play out as teams will hammer in and make defenders make errors. This is what happens with Goldson every now and again.
Yes Katic is headstrong but mostly he wins everything and his aggression adds something to our team which we lack and other teams notice.

If they are targeting him as a weak link (fucking laughable comment with nothing to back it up) then they are failing badly as he is not making mistakes that cost goals.

 

[DylanGer]

Show me all the examples of the goals he has been responsible for due to all these crucial errors you keep repeating he is making.
I can show numerous that Goldson has made and quite a few with Helander, but they don’t receive the same scrutiny.
In this league you don’t have time for CHs to be hesitant on the ball as they try to play out as teams will hammer in and make defenders make errors. This is what happens with Goldson every now and again.
Yes Katic is headstrong but mostly he wins everything and his aggression adds something to our team which we lack and other teams notice.

If they are targeting him as a weak link (fucking laughable comment with nothing to back it up) then they are failing badly as he is not making mistakes that cost goals.

He's made mistakes for fun in OF games-he was certainly out of position for at least two goals I can think of off the top of my head-a breakaway goal at the Piggery where he did not follow the runner and he was sleeping when Goldson made his bad error in the last game albeit that was a really bad error from CG better defending might have prevented the goal. Similarly he has had several near misses in these games -not least the one Eduardo ran by him after a 5 yard start and cut it back for an absolute sitter to be missed.

It's not rocket science he's the emerging player he simply makes more mistakes than the other two BUT he has the potential to be better than the other two.

Don't argue with me the bottom line is the manager has a pecking order and you can bet Celtic and other teams will and have been pinpointing Katic as the weakest link.

As I said earlier maybe now is his time and he can learn and move on.

Goldson has also been erratic at times I have no argument with that but to be honest we can play it out from the back and we absolutely NEED to be able to come forward from the back with the ball against the majority of teams...and we do. The fact CG made a big mistake in the last league game won't change that. That sort of cave man thinking-get the ball up the park went with DJ.....

 

[final_straws]

You’re not reading my posts properly if that’s you’re take away, particularly since I’ve said what you said in your second paragraph long before you said it. So no, you don’t “get it”, the issue isn’t I love Katic, it’s the determination to obsess over his flaws and conveniently ignore those of his cohorts.

Goldson does get sick, but it’s not from a majority and the Katic fans aren’t a majority as the storytellers and fibbers would have you believe.

Yet you are always in these threads having a go at anyone who dares criticise Katic on the fabricated basis that Goldson gets off much lighter.

Its nonsense - I'm sure there was a thread recently stating Katic was our best defender which just isn't true at this moment whilst Goldson has been getting dogs abuse for the OF game mistake & more recently when his form dropped off a cliff.

 

[prenzlauerbear]

Always makes me laugh how these threads quickly become so meta and weird. Hardcore forumers rattling themselves because other people don't agree with the viewpoint they've convinced themselves to be true.

"I can show numerous that Goldson has made and quite a few with Helander, but they don’t receive the same scrutiny."

Like, what?! Based on a few replies on FF?

 

[prenzlauerbear]

He's made mistakes for fun in OF games-he was certainly out of position for at least two goals I can think of off the top of my head-a breakaway goal at the Piggery where he did not follow the runner and he was sleeping when Goldson made his bad error in the last game albeit that was a really bad error from CG better defending might have prevented the goal. Similarly he has had several near misses in these games -not least the one Eduardo ran by him after a 5 yard start and cut it back for an absolute sitter to be missed.

It's not rocket science he's the emerging player he simply makes more mistakes than the other two BUT he has the potential to be better than the other two.

Don't argue with me the bottom line is the manager has a pecking order and you can bet Celtic and other teams will and have been pinpointing Katic as the weakest link.

As I said earlier maybe now is his time and he can learn and move on.

Goldson has also been erratic at times I have no argument with that but to be honest we can play it out from the back and we absolutely NEED to be able to come forward from the back with the ball against the majority of teams...and we do. The fact CG made a big mistake in the last league game won't change that. That sort of cave man thinking-get the ball up the park went with DJ.....

One of the issues is that the centre half position is not a meritocracy at Gerrard's Rangers. People think players should always be picked on form, but the reality is more complicated.

Goldson infuriates the life out of me at times. For a centre back of his experience, he has some pretty bad traits in his game, from letting the ball bounce to backing off. Despite that, he is Gerrard's de facto captain. He's the one tasked with calling the line, squeezing the game, and making long-field passes. He does these things because Katic and Helander can't. That means he will always be cut a bit of slack when he isn't playing well, and why, barring a catstrophic loss of form (I tend to believe he's always been decent enough despite the flaws) he will be in the team ahead of the other two.

It's not some agenda against Katic, or indeed Helander, it's just the way it is. He's been a fulcrum of this team; a team that has been on an upward trajectory for the past couple of years.

 

[cloodie]

If they are targeting him as a weak link (fucking laughable comment with nothing to back it up) then they are failing badly as he is not making mistakes that cost goals.

There are stats that show which side of the defence shots come from and compare how each centre half is doing in comparison to their partner. The biggest disparity in the league was between Goldson and Katic with the majority of shots coming from Katic side. Since Helander came in the shots have been fairly evenly matched between either side of the defence. I don't say this to disparage Katic in anyway but it does show that teams seem to target him.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

One of the issues is that the centre half position is not a meritocracy at Gerrard's Rangers. People think players should always be picked on form, but the reality is more complicated.

Goldson infuriates the life out of me at times. For a centre back of his experience, he has some pretty bad traits in his game, from letting the ball bounce to backing off. Despite that, he is Gerrard's de facto captain. He's the one tasked with calling the line, squeezing the game, and making long-field passes. He does these things because Katic and Helander can't. That means he will always be cut a bit of slack when he isn't playing well, and why, barring a catstrophic loss of form (I tend to believe he's always been decent enough despite the flaws) he will be in the team ahead of the other two.

It's not some agenda against Katic, or indeed Helander, it's just the way it is. He's been a fulcrum of this team; a team that has been on an upward trajectory for the past couple of years.

The only game I've been able to attend this season was at Fir Park a few weeks ago. I went with my best mate, who's a Motherwell season ticket holder, so I was sat in their Main Stand. Wasn't a great experience but, given how much quieter it was than at a game in with the Bears, I could hear the players shouting on the pitch and, being on the half-way line, I had a great view of how the defence set up.

Be in no doubt that, for all the criticism he gets, Tav is the 'boss' in that team. The amount of shouting and cajoling he does puts the rest to shame. Furthermore, it was also clear that the 'organiser' in defence, and indeed the de facto vice-Captain, was Goldson. He too did loads of shouting and organising and it was he who called the line for offsides etc. To be honest, it gave me a different outlook on both Tav and Goldson. I was actually surprised at how quiet most of the rest of the players were. Arfield is a bit of a shouter and, to a lesser extent, Jack, but that's about it. McGregor as well but hey, that's just Greegs venting on a regular basis.

Sometimes its not just about 'raw' ability - other factors can make one player more indispensable than another as well. Its the whole package that matters.

 

[Jaws II]

There are stats that show which side of the defence shots come from and compare how each centre half is doing in comparison to their partner. The biggest disparity in the league was between Goldson and Katic with the majority of shots coming from Katic side. Since Helander came in the shots have been fairly evenly matched between either side of the defence. I don't say this to disparage Katic in anyway but it does show that teams seem to target him.

How is that working out for them?
Are we losing lots of goals due to him being back in the team. If we were I would be highly critical of him.
The only reason you seem to think he is being targeted is due to him being the aggressive force within our defence to quickly challenge the opposition.
With that style you don’t always come away with the ball but if enough is done to stop an attack or blunt it then so be it.
It works for us and Goldson always looks better alongside Katic. Katic is the attacking force and Goldson organises from behind.
They work as a partnership while with the other pairs we have had the CHs have tended to play as individuals who have made crucial errors in big games.
As for Dylan’s desperation to still blame Katic for the Celtic goal at Ibrox it proves my point how errors by some are exaggerated and by others are ignored.

 

[cloodie]

How is that working out for them?
Are we losing lots of goals due to him being back in the team. If we were I would be highly critical of him.
The only reason you seem to think he is being targeted is due to him being the aggressive force within our defence to quickly challenge the opposition.
With that style you don’t always come away with the ball but if enough is done to stop an attack or blunt it then so be it.
It works for us and Goldson always looks better alongside Katic. Katic is the attacking force and Goldson organises from behind.
They work as a partnership while with the other pairs we have had the CHs have tended to play as individuals who have made crucial errors in big games.
As for Dylan’s desperation to still blame Katic for the Celtic goal at Ibrox it proves my point how errors by some are exaggerated and by others are ignored.

It's not what 'I think' and I haven't posted anthing about my views in that post so I'm not sure how you're able to tell me what they are, I'm only posting the stats based evidence you asked of Dylan.

 

[Jaws II]

It's not what 'I think' and I haven't posted anthing about my views in that post so I'm not sure how you're able to tell me what they are, I'm only posting the stats based evidence you asked of Dylan.

The only stats that matter here is goals lost and goals scored. Katic makes less that cause goals.

 

[two2tango]

Katic offers a big threat at set pieces I’m having him for first goal the morra

 

[cloodie]

The only stats that matter here is goals lost and goals scored. Katic makes less that cause goals.

2/3 of goal scoring chances come from Katic defensive area.

 

[DylanGer]

How is that working out for them?
Are we losing lots of goals due to him being back in the team. If we were I would be highly critical of him.
The only reason you seem to think he is being targeted is due to him being the aggressive force within our defence to quickly challenge the opposition.
With that style you don’t always come away with the ball but if enough is done to stop an attack or blunt it then so be it.
It works for us and Goldson always looks better alongside Katic. Katic is the attacking force and Goldson organises from behind.
They work as a partnership while with the other pairs we have had the CHs have tended to play as individuals who have made crucial errors in big games.
As for Dylan’s desperation to still blame Katic for the Celtic goal at Ibrox it proves my point how errors by some are exaggerated and by others are ignored.

The bottom line is the punters always think they know better than the manager and once Helander was settled he stayed in the team-quite rightly so. The notion that Goldson and Katic is a better partnership and yet the manager ignores it is daft.

I didn't blame Katic for the goal-Goldson made a basic error that was the root cause-as many stated including the manager that the defending after it was poor also.

Katic as the attacking powerhouse can be true it can also be like Saturday where he was poor even at that. Goldson strolled through the game whilst Katic struggled.

Whilst football isn't overly complicated sometimes the punters try to over simplify it. None of our defenders have frankly contributed to a win over them that is meaningful nor indeed have played their way to a trophy. It's a squad game these days more than ever and we will be reliant this season on our younger players-Katic, Kent, Aribo et al will need to be able to both stabilise and lift us-Easter road style.

If they do that and the more experienced players stick to the task we have a chance this season anything less then the arguments about the CH's will be a side show. Frankly that's where we are-irrespective of who plays at the back the team needs to find a way to put genuine pressure on the Beggars even a draw tomorrow will be enough to start that.

 

[Giovanni Van Henry]

I love big katic . I would have him playing more than he does but I also agree with the gaffer that’s he’s still not the finished product and every game or two he gets caught or plays a dodgy pass that puts is in trouble . Once he learns more and better ways to improve his game he’ll be the best cb in Scotland . Want to see more of Edmundson gets more games . The lad can move fast and he can fair pass acsngnhh