Have we been conditioned to expect an underwhelming appointment?

wsb&warmy said:
The scenario you've highlighted here is the scenario which I think is what's currently happening right now.

There were a few 'ITK' posters absolutely certain that Mcinnes was the boards choice and that it was only a matter of time before he was installed as our manager. The word from them was that negotiations had already started.

We're now some time on from those soundbites and still nothing. The only logical explanation for me, is that Aberdeen are currently resigned to losing him and are privately going through their own manager search in the knowledge that Mcinnes will be in charge up until after next weekends game and then probably a caretaker manager in place for the two games against us. I also believe our board are fully expecting Graeme Murty to be in charge of first team affairs until AFTER the sheep double header.

This arrangement takes the pressure off both Mcinnes and whoever the new sheep manager is.

Scenario 1: Derek Mcinnes is in place as our manager for both sheep games and loses them both. Calls for his head would probably start immediately.

Scenario 2: DM still in charge of the sheep and loses both games to us and THEN becomes our manager. There would be cries of foul play at hand as well as our own fans probably thinking he's a rank rotten manager that's just lost twice to Murty's team, so why are we going for him and not sticking with Murty or looking elsewhere?

Scenario 3: DM announced as our next manager before the first sheep game but won't take control until AFTER the 2nd sheep game. Graeme Murty to remain in charge for both those games. Aberdeen probably know who their next manager is by this point but won't announce him until AFTER both games against us. Caretaker manager v Caretaker manager for both games. Win, lose or draw in those games, both new managers starting with a clean slate.

It's all a bit long winded and a tad complicated, but this is what I think is happening just now. If we weren't playing the sheep any time soon then I think Derek Mcinnes would already be our new manager and taking the team this Saturday.
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Or..

Scenario 4: DM still in charge of Sheep for two games against us and wins them both? Our fans raging because we didn't move quicker to get him in the door and fck Aberdeen over. Their fans hate McInnes when he joins us, but are happy to be comfortably ahead of us for the new man coming in while DM is trying to sort out our situation.

Or..

Scenario 5: DM still in charge of Aberdeen for those games and we share the spoils across the fixtures. A couple of draws or a win apiece? Then what?

Are we pegging the idea on him that he'll throw those games because he might be coming to us after them? Because I would suggest if DM is in the dug out at Pittodrie, he is principled enough to set out to win...
 
At the risk of just going over the same thing again and again and again, it looks to me that there’s actually just two main scenarios here:

Either, 1) the board cannot come to an agreement on anyone, McInnes included, and are desperately hoping someone else crops up that they can all get behind, or 2) McInnes is and always really has been the preferred option, but there are sticking points on any combination of compo, wages, backroom setup and the influence of Mark Allen.

If it’s the former, I’m not sure how that resolves itself if no new juicy names throw their hat into the ring before the deadline expires (if, indeed, there actually is a deadline), so in the interests of stability and increasing exasperation, I find myself hoping it’s the latter as it appears the easier of the two to remedy.
 
J Spaceman said:
If our board is starting to worry about what Derek McInnes - a solitary League Cup winner - thinks of all this then we're in a worse position than we think.
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Well, given that we're working on the assumption he is indeed the top target of whatever actual short-list they have currently, I would suggest we are already in that position.

You don't have a top candidate for the job and not give a fck about his opinion of the situation...
 
Bluenose1979 said:
Or..

Scenario 4: DM still in charge of Sheep for two games against us and wins them both? Our fans raging because we didn't move quicker to get him in the door and fck Aberdeen over. Their fans hate McInnes when he joins us, but are happy to be comfortably ahead of us for the new man coming in while DM is trying to sort out our situation.

Or..

Scenario 5: DM still in charge of Aberdeen for those games and we share the spoils across the fixtures. A couple of draws or a win apiece? Then what?

Are we pegging the idea on him that he'll throw those games because he might be coming to us after them? Because I would suggest if DM is in the dug out at Pittodrie, he is principled enough to set out to win...
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I'm not suggesting he'll throw any game, but i'd guess that if he knows he's going to be our manager after both games, then he'd probably rather not take charge of the sheep for their games against us for the reasons I've stated in the post you quoted. I'd imagine our board and the sheep's board probably wouldn't want that either. It could lead to a whole host of issues for either side.
 
wsb&warmy said:
I'm not suggesting he'll throw any game, but i'd guess that if he knows he's going to be our manager after both games, then he'd probably rather not take charge of the sheep for their games against us for the reasons I've stated in the post you quoted. I'd imagine our board and the sheep's board probably wouldn't want that either. It could lead to a whole host of issues for either side.
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Well, that's very much the question though. DOES he know he's going to be our manager? Do Aberdeen know he's going to be our manager?

All this is assuming the two clubs have colluded to create a pointless approach where he is coming to us, but having a fortnight limbo that will achieve nothing in reality from a PR perspective.

If we are getting DM in, we simply have to go and get it done. Trying to work out some silly handover period that leaves both clubs playing head-to-head twice with neither having a permanent manager appointed smacks of idiocy to me.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
Well, that's very much the question though. DOES he know he's going to be our manager? Do Aberdeen know he's going to be our manager?

All this is assuming the two clubs have colluded to create a pointless approach where he is coming to us, but having a fortnight limbo that will achieve nothing in reality from a PR perspective.

If we are getting DM in, we simply have to go and get it done. Trying to work out some silly handover period that leaves both clubs playing head-to-head twice with neither having a permanent manager appointed smacks of idiocy to me.
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Well only people close to the actual situation really know if that's the case or not. I personally believe it is.
 
Nothing will happen without King here.

The board won't be locked in a room trying to thrash something out hour after hour.

I don't think much will be happening at all.
 
WalterLoyal said:
If McInnes had rejected us Aberdeen would be shouting it from the rooftops. It would be viewed as their biggest triumph in decades.
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I meant if we eventually approach him after dilly dallying for weeks to then offer him a sh*te budget etc then he is well within his rights to tell us thanks, but not thanks.
 
the bridge said:
Great contribution and great support of the process. Hopefully we just fling it at someone to give you plenty of moaning time.

Tell you what, you know what you don’t like, let’s read what you do like. It’s easy to be a side line sniper. State your fucking opinion. Who should it be?
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Derek Mcinnes IMO, maybe you'll read this when you come off the rag.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
I meant if we eventually approach him after dilly dallying for weeks to then offer him a sh*te budget etc then he is well within his rights to tell us thanks, but not thanks.
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Sorry I can see that now. I thought you meant he'd already knocked us back. No bother.

Personally I don't think there's a chance in hell he'll knock us back. I believe a big reason he knocked back Sunderland is because he thought this job would be available shortly. I reckon he'd take it in a heartbeat. He won't be offered the Rangers job twice in his life.
 
wsb&warmy said:
Well only people close to the actual situation really know if that's the case or not. I personally believe it is.
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You're entitled to think that. I am confident it has got nowhere near the stage of being agreed at this point and that the Sheep haven't been approached.
 
wsb&warmy said:
The scenario you've highlighted here is the scenario which I think is what's currently happening right now.

There were a few 'ITK' posters absolutely certain that Mcinnes was the boards choice and that it was only a matter of time before he was installed as our manager. The word from them was that negotiations had already started.

We're now some time on from those soundbites and still nothing. The only logical explanation for me, is that Aberdeen are currently resigned to losing him and are privately going through their own manager search in the knowledge that Mcinnes will be in charge up until after next weekends game and then probably a caretaker manager in place for the two games against us. I also believe our board are fully expecting Graeme Murty to be in charge of first team affairs until AFTER the sheep double header.

This arrangement takes the pressure off both Mcinnes and whoever the new sheep manager is.

Scenario 1: Derek Mcinnes is in place as our manager for both sheep games and loses them both. Calls for his head would probably start immediately.

Scenario 2: DM still in charge of the sheep and loses both games to us and THEN becomes our manager. There would be cries of foul play at hand as well as our own fans probably thinking he's a rank rotten manager that's just lost twice to Murty's team, so why are we going for him and not sticking with Murty or looking elsewhere?

Scenario 3: DM announced as our next manager before the first sheep game but won't take control until AFTER the 2nd sheep game. Graeme Murty to remain in charge for both those games. Aberdeen probably know who their next manager is by this point but won't announce him until AFTER both games against us. Caretaker manager v Caretaker manager for both games. Win, lose or draw in those games, both new managers starting with a clean slate.

It's all a bit long winded and a tad complicated, but this is what I think is happening just now. If we weren't playing the sheep any time soon then I think Derek Mcinnes would already be our new manager and taking the team this Saturday.
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Only thing that makes reasonable sense to me. No way a RFC boardroom split would be allowed to continue through the AGM, preferred candidates would be on a shortlist and interviews happening if that was the case.

They are stalling to make life easier for AFC. People on here were saying from day 1 how good it would be to destabilise the sheep ahead of that double header... do people seriously think they weren’t aware of that and seeking to prevent it? Compromise position is he manages neither and we maybe get a few quid knocked off the compo
 
WalterLoyal said:
If McInnes had rejected us Aberdeen would be shouting it from the rooftops. It would be viewed as their biggest triumph in decades.
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... which all points to the depressingly obvious appointment. I think the compensation is the only thing to be ironed out.
 
J Spaceman said:
... which all points to the depressingly obvious appointment. I think the compensation is the only thing to be ironed out.
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If it is to be McInnes then he has to be in before the Aberdeen games.

The Board will be in a no-win situation if not, and they really don’t want that right now. Murty wins = tide turns against appointing McInnes/daft media questions over ‘match fixing and tapping up’ etc. McInnes wins = fans will ask why the hell he wasn’t appointed earlier and would have us potentially 6 points further behind.
 
Hobjo said:
Only thing that makes reasonable sense to me. No way a RFC boardroom split would be allowed to continue through the AGM, preferred candidates would be on a shortlist and interviews happening if that was the case.

They are stalling to make life easier for AFC. People on here were saying from day 1 how good it would be to destabilise the sheep ahead of that double header... do people seriously think they weren’t aware of that and seeking to prevent it? Compromise position is he manages neither and we maybe get a few quid knocked off the compo
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This has to be up there as one of the least likely motivations for delaying an appointment there could be, particularly given the ramping up of pressure over how long it is taking.

Doing it to make like easier for Aberdeen? That borders on dereliction of duty from our board. hence why I simply don't buy it.

That and the any number of alternative and feasible reasons for the delay that have been posted already.

If the board is split, the board is split. The idea there's no way they would allow it is a misnomer. It's either the case or it's not.
 
an underwhelming appointment would be the mHedia golden boy McIness. I trust the board to get it right this time.
 
It’s an underwhelming market

The best options are financially out of our reach

The next best option will be a relatively unknown quantity / gamble I include McCinnes in this catagory

Shite state of affairs but we will find the right man for the job eventually
 
Bluenose1979 said:
This has to be up there as one of the least likely motivations for delaying an appointment there could be, particularly given the ramping up of pressure over how long it is taking.

Doing it to make like easier for Aberdeen? That borders on dereliction of duty from our board. hence why I simply don't buy it.

That and the any number of alternative and feasible reasons for the delay that have been posted already.

If the board is split, the board is split. The idea there's no way they would allow it is a misnomer. It's either the case or it's not.
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If it shaved £300k off the compo, for example, they’d do it. I don’t know why you have such a hard time wrapping your head around it. It’s the kind of thing that probably happens all the time. Milne isn’t Petrie, he’ll pragmatically get what he can get in the circumstances that McInnes wants to go. On our side of things, less compo could mean a new player in January or an agreement to give them some money for McLean in January or whatever is in everyone’s interests.

If it is to do with a boardroom split then, if you think about that for a minute, we are in big f*cking trouble.

It may be a case of wishful thinking but I know the scenario I think more likely (and preferable)
 
Standards1972 said:
The guessing game and excitement has died a bit of a death. The original shouts of Allardyce and Dyche, maybe even Tuchel if he'd be interested! They've been replaced by a staggered reduction in expectations.

People seem fed up with bickering over McInnes and the board seem to be taking a very long time to appoint what will likely be a very 'meh' appointment; Chris Coleman, Michael O'Neil.

The appointment of a new manager should be an event dripping with excitement and possibility but I'm majorly sensing people just want it over and done with now and are prepared for someone they are going to be disappointed with.
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I think that's our problem, people are desperate for a new appoinment, in the same way we would be,come when the transfer windows open.
I don't see the point in rushing to sign someone for the sake of having a new man in place.In saying that i think the club have already made up there mind about who they would like in place.
 
They'd be quicker holding a supporters ballot rather than all this rubbish,so much for transparency,clearly we don't want our enemies know what's going on,but surely they should come out and say something,all this does is unsettle people in positions. Does anyone know what's going on, the silence is deafening, don't know if it's positive or negative vibe.
 
If the board are delaying on hiring McInnes until after the sheep double header they are not fit for purpose. They have an opportunity to get in a manager who knows them inside out and a decent opportunity to get 6 points from them, If McInnes is their choice then he needs to be appointed ASAP. Anything else would just make the board look weak (again).
 
Twitter will be shocked to hear that Rangers have made 'no approach' to @AberdeenFC for Derek McInnes. His irritation about the topic was palpable. Can't blame him.

^^from a journalist at Deeks presser
 
Who ever is appointed it has been a shambles. Some information as where we are wouldn't be amiss -

  • have had 121 applicants
  • narrowed down to 3
  • interviewing next Tuesday or probably more realistic.......
  • done phuck all!
 
Hobjo said:
If it shaved £300k off the compo, for example, they’d do it. I don’t know why you have such a hard time wrapping your head around it. It’s the kind of thing that probably happens all the time. Milne isn’t Petrie, he’ll pragmatically get what he can get in the circumstances that McInnes wants to go. On our side of things, less compo could mean a new player in January or an agreement to give them some money for McLean in January or whatever is in everyone’s interests.

If it is to do with a boardroom split then, if you think about that for a minute, we are in big f*cking trouble.

It may be a case of wishful thinking but I know the scenario I think more likely (and preferable)
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It's not hard to wrap your head around the idea if you invent a £300k discount - but again, why would Aberdeen entertain that for the scenario you're painting?

Aberdeen will want to be seen to have made it as difficult as possible for us to take him. If they are entitled to ask for £800k and we are unwilling to pay it, they're not going to say "Well okay, we'll knock a massive discount off, but as long as he leaves before we play Rangers and doesn't sign with you until the week after" as if that'd in any kind of alternate reality make a blind bit of difference to how their fans, the media or anyone else reacted.

I think the boardroom split is most likely, I also now firmly believe there is substance in McInnes having reservations about the DoF structure and I absolutely believe we have not made any official contact with Aberdeen to discuss any terms.

I would echo your thoughts though that it is poor situation to be in, but it's also more feasible than a pointless delay to make them comfortable giving in to a knock-down value.
 
Lt Murty said:
Twitter will be shocked to hear that Rangers have made 'no approach' to @AberdeenFC for Derek McInnes. His irritation about the topic was palpable. Can't blame him.

^^from a journalist at Deeks presser
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Not on Twitter, but also not shocked to hear...
 
The Great One said:
I think we want McInnes but don't want to pay the 800k compensation figure.
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Like it or lump it Dolly are due it if it is within his contract. The board who need to pay that are the same board who sanctioned compensation for PC, hired him on a 3 year deal and then gave him the guts of 7 million to spend so they will need to deal with it if he is their first choice.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
It's not hard to wrap your head around the idea if you invent a £300k discount - but again, why would Aberdeen entertain that for the scenario you're painting?

Aberdeen will want to be seen to have made it as difficult as possible for us to take him. If they are entitled to ask for £800k and we are unwilling to pay it, they're not going to say "Well okay, we'll knock a massive discount off, but as long as he leaves before we play Rangers and doesn't sign with you until the week after" as if that'd in any kind of alternate reality make a blind bit of difference to how their fans, the media or anyone else reacted.

I think the boardroom split is most likely, I also now firmly believe there is substance in McInnes having reservations about the DoF structure and I absolutely believe we have not made any official contact with Aberdeen to discuss any terms.

I would echo your thoughts though that it is poor situation to be in, but it's also more feasible than a pointless delay to make them comfortable giving in to a knock-down value.
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We don’t actually know he has a formal release clause. But we do know compo will be due. We also know we’re in no position to pay “whatever it takes”. We also know fairly confidently DM wants to come and he had some kind of agreement with Milne etc in the summer after he turned down Sunderland. Milne also wouldn’t want to keep an unhappy manager.

Those are circumstances in which deals get done. Aberdeen have fans to pander to, we’re in no position to financially ride roughshod over that.

Is it an invented scenario? Maybe but it’s no less credible than yours (honestly, yours is less credible to my mind).
 
Hobjo said:
We don’t actually know he has a formal release clause. But we do know compo will be due. We also know we’re in no position to pay “whatever it takes”. We also know fairly confidently DM wants to come and he had some kind of agreement with Milne etc in the summer after he turned down Sunderland. Milne also wouldn’t want to keep an unhappy manager.

Those are circumstances in which deals get done. Aberdeen have fans to pander to, we’re in no position to financially ride roughshod over that.

Is it an invented scenario? Maybe but it’s no less credible than yours (honestly, yours is less credible to my mind).
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There's a lot of speculation in that first paragraph. How do we know fairly confidently that there is an agreement from the summer?

I don't suspect he necessarily has a formal release clause. I firmly suspect he has a higher wage now than he did last season and for a longer period. Those are the things that will dictate compo regardless of any clauses we don't know exist.

I see literally no reason to think Milne would (to the evident detriment of his own club) agree to accept less than he is entitled to, so if they are entitled to (hypothetically) £800k compo, then he will rightly dig his heel in.

We may well try to negotiate it down, but there is still no real world scenario I can see where Aberdeen fans are any happier by the switcheroo being carried out on a slightly different timeline. I don't see the real world benefit to Aberdeen in taking less than they are entitled to that is offset by a slight timeshift in it happening.

I would suggest the notion that we haven't approached Aberdeen yet as not credible as a stretch. McInnes, Rangers and Aberdeen have all categorically publicly stated there has been no contact. How on Earth can that be less credible than an entirely invented scenario involving enormous discount compo packages to make Aberdeen more comfortable by offsetting the move by a fortnight?
 
Bluenose1979 said:
As said before, I think we're stalling because there's a lack of consensus. I think we'll end up with McInnes because he'll be favoured as the best we can get by more votes than those who don't want him. Guesswork on my part entirely, but I think we are where we are.

Ultimately the stalling will allow for any further candidates to come out of the woodwork and did seem too coincidentally timed with the WC qualifiers ending to be accidental. I think they've failed to agree and ultimately those not wanting McInnes have said "give it til we see the lay of the land next week" in case changes happen and names crop up. Hopeful, rather than based on substance.

We'll still, IMHO, end up with Deek.

I don't believe for a second personally that we are smoothing things with Aberdeen and letting him stay til after the double-header. Just don't buy it. If it's to achieve a favourable compo deal, then even more frustrating, but again, I just see no real world value for the sheep in doing that just for the sake of those two games. I'd also expect our club to be more assertive in recognising the double-whammy of taking their manager and throwing them into disruption ahead of those matches as well as getting the new man in to work with our squad ahead of January. It's a glaring opportunity that should not be missed.

Ultimately, happy to reiterate that this is me guessing, but I feel fairly confident in saying that the timeline we are witnessing is not all just part of a planned process and also that I do think we'll end up after umpteen weeks getting the man that everyone has unofficially known it was going to be from the beginning.
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Think you may well be right mate.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
There's a lot of speculation in that first paragraph. How do we know fairly confidently that there is an agreement from the summer?

I don't suspect he necessarily has a formal release clause. I firmly suspect he has a higher wage now than he did last season and for a longer period. Those are the things that will dictate compo regardless of any clauses we don't know exist.

I see literally no reason to think Milne would (to the evident detriment of his own club) agree to accept less than he is entitled to, so if they are entitled to (hypothetically) £800k compo, then he will rightly dig his heel in.

We may well try to negotiate it down, but there is still no real world scenario I can see where Aberdeen fans are any happier by the switcheroo being carried out on a slightly different timeline. I don't see the real world benefit to Aberdeen in taking less than they are entitled to that is offset by a slight timeshift in it happening.

I would suggest the notion that we haven't approached Aberdeen yet as not credible as a stretch. McInnes, Rangers and Aberdeen have all categorically publicly stated there has been no contact. How on Earth can that be less credible than an entirely invented scenario involving enormous discount compo packages to make Aberdeen more comfortable by offsetting the move by a fortnight?
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You’re downplaying the value to the AFC board not to let their popular manager go to Rangers before two season defining matches.

You’re also overplaying the ability of RFC to ruthlessly drive through a double whammy without Aberdeen resisting (and perhaps McInnes also not wanting to be in that position).

You’re being very one-eyed about this. That’s ok when we’re at the games, but isn’t very helpful when we’re trying to work out what the hell is going on in the real world, as opposed to the world of football fan logic
 
Hobjo said:
You’re downplaying the value to the AFC board not to let their popular manager go to Rangers before two season defining matches.

You’re also overplaying the ability of RFC to ruthlessly drive through a double whammy without Aberdeen resisting (and perhaps McInnes also not wanting to be in that position).

You’re being very one-eyed about this. That’s ok when we’re at the games, but isn’t very helpful when we’re trying to work out what the hell is going on in the real world, as opposed to the world of football fan logic
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No. You suggest my theory and approach is driven by fan logic to try and invalidate it, while the reality is you have suggested a literally entirely fictionalised theory based upon Aberdeen’s only benefit being to appease fans’ reaction... while at the same time letting him go cheap to us.

No amount of pride can surely allow you to continue believing that is more credible than the explanation given in full public glare by the three parties actually involved, which is the simple possibility that Rangers just haven’t asked to approach him yet?

Aberdeen fans will only be mildly appeased by two things:

- Aberdeen making it as difficult as possible for us to get him but him forcing their hand, so it’s not their fault.

- Them squeezing every penny they could get out of us in the process.

If McInnes leaves the week before we play them, it’s for one reason and their fans will know it and be fuming. Him not taking the reins until two weeks later won’t take any noticeable edge off of that.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
No. You suggest my theory and approach is driven by fan logic to try and invalidate it, while the reality is you have suggested a literally entirely fictionalised theory based upon Aberdeen’s only benefit being to appease fans’ reaction... while at the same time letting him go cheap to us.

No amount of pride can surely allow you to continue believing that is more credible than the explanation given in full public glare by the three parties actually involved, which is the simple possibility that Rangers just haven’t asked to approach him yet?

Aberdeen fans will only be mildly appeased by two things:

- Aberdeen making it as difficult as possible for us to get him but him forcing their hand, so it’s not their fault.

- Them squeezing every penny they could get out of us in the process.

If McInnes leaves the week before we play them, it’s for one reason and their fans will know it and be fuming. Him not taking the reins until two weeks later won’t take any noticeable edge off of that.
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I don’t believe there has been no contact. Not for a second. Sorry
 
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