Have We Ever Been Scotland’s Team?

WDYGH

WDYGH

Well-Known Member
I am 46, so can only really go back to the early to mid 80’s. Obviously football fans have their favourites and then some have other sides they will follow as a second side, for a variety of reasons, be it family ties, geography or simply a side people don’t mind but don’t favour to the extent of their preferred side but may wish well against another side.

We are obviously a side it seems popular to now dislike, with a bandwagon mentality and irrational dislike being the order of the day but my question is, before the age of social media and Internet, before the pollution of the press by Celtc-minded journalists and before the nationalist uprising, have we ever been seen as Scotland’s team?

I know we have the largest support, I am more meaning, were fans of other clubs ambivalent towards us or even supporting, from a second club perspective?
 
Treble Kings said:
Jesus F#ck...
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It’s just been something that’s been on my mind for a while. We have always been the biggest supporter club in the land but were we always as hated as we are now?

There have been several threads about fans going to watch other clubs back in the day.

It’s a reasonable question to ask.
 
mdingwall said:
Yes we have. In fact I think it was John Fairgreave (Hearts fan) who said that about us and called us the Scots Guards of Scottish football.
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Struth dominated the 20s, 30s and 40s. I would imagine we were the main talk of the town.

I think we were held in high regard early 50s. George Young was Scotland captain, around then? Didn't he get 50 caps? Seems a lot for those times

The early 60s team with Baxter et al were highly regarded as well.

I think the real hatred started when Celtic's Stein were dominant and whenever we returned to the top of was met with outrage.

I've been going to Ibrox since 1980. We have never been Scotland's team then
 
WDYGH said:
What sort of era would that have been GS?
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He said it in a Rangers book about our history. I always thought he meant it in a playing sense. Scottish football's too overheated and partisan to have supporters having 'second teams'. That's my thoughts anyway.
 
I don't have firsthand experience but I have heard older bears talk about how some Rangers fans would go to Kilmarnock because they couldn't get a ticket to Ibrox. I've also heard that a lot of Hearts supporters looked upon us fondly.
 
Didn’t the national team wear the same black and red socks in the 1960s?

Given their relative uniqueness that’s not nothing although I admit I don’t know how this came about or how long it lasted.
 
Treble Kings said:
He said it in a Rangers book about our history. I always thought he meant it in a playing sense. Scottish football's too overheated and partisan to have supporters having 'second teams'. That's my thoughts anyway.
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I think it depends on the individual. Sadly modern day Scotland is filled with bandwagon jumpers, incapable of personal thought.
 
Hearts were always supportive of us,probably because of the protestant connection. But in general we've always been hated because we're the biggest and best. I think when the Souness era started the jealousy got worse. Then the snp got control and the hatred has went over the top.
 
Treble Kings said:
I'd tell a supporter of some shit kicking other team to do one if they started gushing over The Gers. When we needed allies not one of them wanted to know, so f#ck them.
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I agree. I am merely interested about history. Call it nostalgia borne out of our 150th anniversary.
 
I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we might have more fans than every other team combined. Being Scotland's team is pretty much our default position. Your desperate need for a bunch of fans of other clubs to like us is unbecoming.
 
Kubala said:
I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we might have more fans than every other team combined. Being Scotland's team is pretty much our default position. Your desperate need for a bunch of fans of other clubs to like us is unbecoming.
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We did in the mid 2000s
 
Of course we have .

Queens Park FC were Scotlands first club providing almkst the full national team for a period and when they rejected membership of the SFL at its inception choosing to stay both amateur and outside then there status begun to wane .
Soon after due to success and numbers and being a proper ascottihs club we became Scotland’s club without doubt and yes an important factor was Celtic and probably Hibs and Dundee Hibs being Irish clubs .
This all happened really early in the 20th century and persisted for decades and you could say it still does - the issue being Celtic have hijacked the association and league and of course media including the national broadcaster when we were weakened under Murray’s regime .

In terms of the nation though for anyone venturing and adventuring across Scotland no matter the regio and most towns Rangers remain the Scottish public’s team .

Btw one litt;e thing I spotted today ot is 10 years since Celtics QC who ran roughshod was found dead in Asia , Pakistan it was if I remember rightly .
 
Kubala said:
I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say we might have more fans than every other team combined. Being Scotland's team is pretty much our default position. Your desperate need for a bunch of fans of other clubs to like us is unbecoming.
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I don’t need anything mate and as I said, I am only too well aware of the fact we are the biggest support by a distance in the land.

This weekend is our 150th anniversary and I guess I was just being nostalgic, wondering how things were years ago.

People post threads all the time, asking about the past and this time is a time like no other for our great club.

I don’t need fans of other clubs to like us, I was merely asking older fans of how things were in years gone by.
 
We are the biggest team in Scotland ffs. The noisy minority may make it known they hate us but we are the fuckin people.
 
I can only give my experience as a 63 year old.

Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was a diehard Rangers and Scotland supporter like most of my peers

I went to domestic and international games and was as emotionally involved in both equally.

Come the 80's and disillusion set in re Scotland, Rangers' players being overlooked and utter cunts like Andy Roxburgh and Craig Brown ( a former Rangers player to boot) being 'manager' and the rot set in.

90's and we have a takeover of Scotland by the flotsam from the other teams who by this time despise anything Rangers' related due to the Holmes/ Souness revolution in the 80's, and I'm beginning to feel like an outsider in my own country.

Come the millennium and the crass attempts to kill us off whilst being shunned, to all intents and purposes, by the ruling bodies of Scottish football, despite every dug and its owner knowing we were being shafted.

Since then things have gone completely out of sync.

%^*& them, the SFA, SPFL, SNP etc etc.

We are the people.

We, Rangers, who were the epitome of Scottish football and made up the bulk of the national support have been treated like lepers by the fucken morons who attach themselves to the national xi, and will, imho, never regain our rightful place amongst them (nor would I want to)
 
muz73 said:
I can only give my experience as a 63 year old.

Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was a diehard Rangers and Scotland supporter like most of my peers

I went to domestic and international games and was as emotionally involved in both equally.

Come the 80's and disillusion set in re Scotland, Rangers' players being overlooked and utter cunts like Andy Roxburgh and Craig Brown ( a former Rangers player to boot) being 'manager' and the rot set in.

90's and we have a takeover of Scotland by the flotsam from the other teams who by this time despise anything Rangers' related due to the Holmes/ Souness revolution in the 80's, and I'm beginning to feel like an outsider in my own country.

Come the millennium and the crass attempts to kill us off whilst being shunned, to all intents and purposes, by the ruling bodies of Scottish football, despite every dug and its owner knowing we were being shafted.

Since then things have gone completely out of sync.

%^*& them, the SFA, SPFL, SNP etc etc.

We are the people.

We, Rangers, who were the epitome of Scottish football and made up the bulk of the national support have been treated like lepers by the fucken morons who attach themselves to the national xi, and will, imho, never regain our rightful place amongst them (nor would I want to)
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Great post mate.
 
WDYGH said:
Sums up my own mate. I went to my first Scotland game (v England) in 1985 and when you look at that Scotland, compared to the current day Scotland, it’s absolutely appalling the change in the country.
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I was at pretty much every Home International in the late 70's early 80's.

Went to Wembley and witnessed a 3-1 trouncing.

Was at Anfield for the Joe Jordan WC Qualifier, then bit by bit started hating the SFA and their team from the mid 80's.

I'm now at the stage where I am pretty much happy they lose, even when Rangers' players are involved, and contrary to what the Tartan Trannies think, I'm not remotely interested in England doing well.
 
muz73 said:
I was at pretty much every Home International in the late 70's early 80's.

Went to Wembley and witnessed a 3-1 trouncing.

Was at Anfield for the Joe Jordan WC Qualifier, then bit by bit started hating the SFA and their team from the mid 80's.

I'm now at the stage where I am pretty much happy they lose, even when Rangers' players are involved, and contrary to what the Tartan Trannies think, I'm not remotely interested in England doing well.
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Yes mate, I feel the same. I feel so disconnected from Scotland on so many levels.

It used to be great going to the Scotland games way back when but since the days of Souness at Ibrox, I have chucked the national side.

It might seem weird to outsiders but I proactively want the pumped, every game they play. Once upon a time, it would have been so different:
 
Until the 60s Rangers were respected throughout Scotland. Arguably most of the national team's active support came from Rangers fans.

Things began to change in the Stein era but I'd say the rise of nationalism, the steady takeover of the media by the Celtic-minded and resentment/jealousy over the arrival of English players at Ibrox shifted attitudes radically.
 
deedle said:
Until the 60s Rangers were respected throughout Scotland. Arguably most of the national team's active support came from Rangers fans.

Things began to change in the Stein era but I'd say the rise of nationalism, the steady takeover of the media by the Celtic-minded and resentment/jealousy over the arrival of English players at Ibrox shifted attitudes radically.
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The big sea change imho was the rise of Nationalism and the upstarts who despise us leeching onto the national team despite the fact that traditionally Rangers' fans made up the bulk of the Scotland support

They couldn't process the fact that although we would always lean to British values, we were fervent Scottish football fans at the same time.

The fucken morons who bought into Mel Gibson's 'Braveheart' fantasy are the biggest culprits.
 
WDYGH said:
I am 46, so can only really go back to the early to mid 80’s. Obviously football fans have their favourites and then some have other sides they will follow as a second side, for a variety of reasons, be it family ties, geography or simply a side people don’t mind but don’t favour to the extent of their preferred side but may wish well against another side.

We are obviously a side it seems popular to now dislike, with a bandwagon mentality and irrational dislike being the order of the day but my question is, before the age of social media and Internet, before the pollution of the press by Celtc-minded journalists and before the nationalist uprising, have we ever been seen as Scotland’s team?

I know we have the largest support, I am more meaning, were fans of other clubs ambivalent towards us or even supporting, from a second club perspective?
Click to expand...
Not in my lifetime. My late father summed it up for me. When Celtic played in Lisbon 67 the vast majority of Scots wanted them to win. When Rangers played in Barcelona 72 the vast majority outside Rangers wanted us to lose.
 
muz73 said:
I can only give my experience as a 63 year old.

Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was a diehard Rangers and Scotland supporter like most of my peers

I went to domestic and international games and was as emotionally involved in both equally.

Come the 80's and disillusion set in re Scotland, Rangers' players being overlooked and utter cunts like Andy Roxburgh and Craig Brown ( a former Rangers player to boot) being 'manager' and the rot set in.

90's and we have a takeover of Scotland by the flotsam from the other teams who by this time despise anything Rangers' related due to the Holmes/ Souness revolution in the 80's, and I'm beginning to feel like an outsider in my own country.

Come the millennium and the crass attempts to kill us off whilst being shunned, to all intents and purposes, by the ruling bodies of Scottish football, despite every dug and its owner knowing we were being shafted.

Since then things have gone completely out of sync.

%^*& them, the SFA, SPFL, SNP etc etc.

We are the people.

We, Rangers, who were the epitome of Scottish football and made up the bulk of the national support have been treated like lepers by the fucken morons who attach themselves to the national xi, and will, imho, never regain our rightful place amongst them (nor would I want to)
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Being in the same age group as you, you will most likely recall prior to Hampden having a crap makeover, whenever we played there whether it was in cup finals or semis our support always had the end that was covered. Supporters from the other clubs stood out in all weathers.

Scottish Cup finals always had the Pipes and Drums for our entertainment and let's not forget singing God save the Queen was something to be proud of. Changed days indeed.
 
ThorntonMM said:
Not in my lifetime. My late father summed it up for me. When Celtic played in Lisbon 67 the vast majority of Scots wanted them to win. When Rangers played in Barcelona 72 the vast majority outside Rangers wanted us to lose.
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Similar with Seville and Manchester
 
Rupert Pupkin said:
I don't have firsthand experience but I have heard older bears talk about how some Rangers fans would go to Kilmarnock because they couldn't get a ticket to Ibrox. I've also heard that a lot of Hearts supporters looked upon us fondly.
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They said Partick Thistle fans were Rangers fans that couldn’t get tickets

Guy (Clydebank fan if I remember correctly) I used to work with in the late 90’s told me a few times that Motherwell were rejected by the authorities when asked if they could change their name to Motherwell Rangers. Possibly around the 70’s. Don’t know if any truth in it.
 
EBAFB224-085-C-42-AF-AEE2-5607973-C832-A.jpg


All the other teams are also-rans. We are Scotland’s club.
 
When I was a wee bit in the early 70's and not allowed to go to away games without my uncle, me and some pals would go to Firhill, Boghead or Kilbowie.
When the half time scores were announced and Rangers were winning there was always a big cheer went up.
It also was not unusual to see Rangers tops/scarves at Scotland games.
 
ThorntonMM said:
Not in my lifetime. My late father summed it up for me. When Celtic played in Lisbon 67 the vast majority of Scots wanted them to win. When Rangers played in Barcelona 72 the vast majority outside Rangers wanted us to lose.
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I was genuinely pleased for them in 1967- for a week. I realised then that they rejoiced more about us losing to Bayern than celebrated their win in Lisbon. And for the record I rejoiced when they lost to Kyiv in the first round later that summer- the shortest ever defence of the European Cup. A record that nobody ever mentions.
 
ThorntonMM said:
Not in my lifetime. My late father summed it up for me. When Celtic played in Lisbon 67 the vast majority of Scots wanted them to win. When Rangers played in Barcelona 72 the vast majority outside Rangers wanted us to lose.
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I disagree with that.

The media got behind both and no-one really publicly spoke about sectarianism in those days. There were certainly a lot of middle-class Protestants (perhaps mostly nominal) who got behind Celtic because they were very naive. Celtic being successful on the park also made a difference (they had played second fiddle since the War).

Rangers-Aberdeen games were actually fairly friendly affairs - certainly there was none of the manufactured hatred from Aberdeen fans we see today.

I’d say things started to change by the 80s, especially with the arrival of Souness, the presence of Roxburgh as Scotland manager and the hijacking of the national team by kilt-wearing nationalists. Back in the 60s and 70s men with kilts were viewed as ridiculous.
 
WDYGH said:
It’s just been something that’s been on my mind for a while. We have always been the biggest supporter club in the land but were we always as hated as we are now?

There have been several threads about fans going to watch other clubs back in the day.

It’s a reasonable question to ask.
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It is Bro and I speak from experience ( i am 85),we were Scotlands team untill the media poison started with the civil rights movement in Ireland,we had Royalty and British PMs visit Ibrox, and before the media published anything in the press it had to be approved by Bill Struth. We were invited to play Moscow Dynamo by the British Government in 1945 yes it was a political event described as a continuation of war without the guns.
 
muz73 said:
I can only give my experience as a 63 year old.

Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was a diehard Rangers and Scotland supporter like most of my peers

I went to domestic and international games and was as emotionally involved in both equally.

Come the 80's and disillusion set in re Scotland, Rangers' players being overlooked and utter cunts like Andy Roxburgh and Craig Brown ( a former Rangers player to boot) being 'manager' and the rot set in.

90's and we have a takeover of Scotland by the flotsam from the other teams who by this time despise anything Rangers' related due to the Holmes/ Souness revolution in the 80's, and I'm beginning to feel like an outsider in my own country.

Come the millennium and the crass attempts to kill us off whilst being shunned, to all intents and purposes, by the ruling bodies of Scottish football, despite every dug and its owner knowing we were being shafted.

Since then things have gone completely out of sync.

%^*& them, the SFA, SPFL, SNP etc etc.

We are the people.

We, Rangers, who were the epitome of Scottish football and made up the bulk of the national support have been treated like lepers by the fucken morons who attach themselves to the national xi, and will, imho, never regain our rightful place amongst them (nor would I want to)
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I
deedle said:
I disagree with that.

The media got behind both and no-one really publicly spoke about sectarianism in those days. There were certainly a lot of middle-class Protestants (perhaps mostly nominal) who got behind Celtic because they were very naive. Celtic being successful on the park also made a difference (they had played second fiddle since the War).

Rangers-Aberdeen games were actually fairly friendly affairs - certainly there was none of the manufactured hatred from Aberdeen fans we see today.

I’d say things started to change by the 80s, especially with the arrival of Souness, the presence of Roxburgh as Scotland manager and the hijacking of the national team by kilt-wearing nationalists. Back in the 60s and 70s men with kilts were viewed as ridiculous.
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This
 
deedle said:
I disagree with that.

The media got behind both and no-one really publicly spoke about sectarianism in those days. There were certainly a lot of middle-class Protestants (perhaps mostly nominal) who got behind Celtic because they were very naive. Celtic being successful on the park also made a difference (they had played second fiddle since the War).

Rangers-Aberdeen games were actually fairly friendly affairs - certainly there was none of the manufactured hatred from Aberdeen fans we see today.

I’d say things started to change by the 80s, especially with the arrival of Souness, the presence of Roxburgh as Scotland manager and the hijacking of the national team by kilt-wearing nationalists. Back in the 60s and 70s men with kilts were viewed as ridiculous.
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I'd say the mid 70's saw the Liberal left start to exercise their malign influence, primarily about Rangers not signing RC's. The arrival of Souness certainly ramped up the hatred a notch or ten.

As you say their was no rivalry to speak of between Rangers and Aberdeen fans in the early/mid 70's. I think we can thank Sir Furious for that.

Relationships between Rangers and Celtic were more cordial and respectful, though certainly not friendly but the biggest change in attitudes is down, in the main, to the total infestation of the political scene and the media by one section of the community.
 
For the correct answer ask Denis Law. Folks supported their local sides but boy, they looked forwards to Rangers coming to town.
For my money the rot set in when we stopped playing God Save the Queen to represent all home nations, that was the thin end of a very thick wedge and the sowing of seeds of difference and discord rather than unity and harmony.
That coincided with one section of our population, the largest part, being encouraged and actively taught to “critique” and reappraise its view on religious matters - basically to move away from “stuffy Presbyterianism“ and embrace the sexy, hip, secularism - whilst the smaller section of society circled the wagons and encouraged and strengthened the link between “ faith and identity.” Consolidate the “us“ and make others of “them”.

This exercise in social engineering has led to one section of the community being fragmented and the other galvanised and Scotland is far weaker for moving away from the “Presbyterian values“ that drove its enlightenment and its social values.

Which brings us back to Rangers: Rangers was founded on Presbyterian values, hard work, honest endeavour, contributing rather than taking, aspiring and striving to be the best you can be and to bring your fellows along with you.
Long, long ago in a different Scotland that shared and identified with these values, the majority of the population saw Rangers FC as the sporting benchmark, the level to which their local team could aspire.
 
Alex Venters said:
I'd say the mid 70's saw the Liberal left start to exercise their malign influence, primarily about Rangers not signing RC's. The arrival of Souness certainly ramped up the hatred a notch or ten.

As you say their was no rivalry to speak of between Rangers and Aberdeen fans in the early/mid 70's. I think we can thank Sir Furious for that.

Relationships between Rangers and Celtic were more cordial and respectful, though certainly not friendly but the biggest change in attitudes is down, in the main, to the total infestation of the political scene and the media by one section of the community.
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I maintain that the charade surrounding ‘sectarianism’ was always intended as an exercise in marginalising Rangers as a club and support in Scottish life and revolved around the number of Catholics who had achieved influential positions in politics and the media - figures like McConnell and Spiers saw a very useful bandwagon on which to hitch a ride.
 
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