Hearts’ Ann Budge courts clubs in bid to win support for reconstruction

jweebear

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope our club vote No, not because I'm against reconstruction per say. But purely because if Hearts don't get kept in the top league and are relegated, they must sue the SPFL for compensation of millions, for Votegate jerrymandering.
 

andy5836

Well-Known Member
No matter what you think of Hearts they don't deserve to be relegated without a full season being completed, the same way Celtic don't deserve the title without playing all the games.
 

bluetonic

Well-Known Member
That last paragraph still haunts me.
So why do Hearts think there proposal for league reconstruction will pass when they already dismissed it over a week ago?
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
???

14 teams with top 6/bottom 8 split after two rounds of fixtures (26 games) means the top 6 plays a total of 36 games and the bottom 8 a total of 40 games.
I thought it might be a top 7, bottom 7, split. Either way, 40 or 42 is too many games. Even if they drop the LC we could easily have a good run in Europe which would add up to a dozen extra games. Throw in the SC and your potentially close to 60 games. Far too many. They're supposed to be looking to improve the game, not burn it out. Its so typical of Scottish football that everyone is so focused on their own interests, no one cares about the quality of the product on offer. As long as Hearts get their 4 OF games that's all that matters, nobody gives a damn about about progressing on the European stage, even though it would benefit the national team as well.
 

Valley Bluenose

Well-Known Member
I thought it might be a top 7, bottom 7, split. Either way, 40 or 42 is too many games. Even if they drop the LC we could easily have a good run in Europe which would add up to a dozen extra games. Throw in the SC and your potentially close to 60 games. Far too many. They're supposed to be looking to improve the game, not burn it out. Its so typical of Scottish football that everyone is so focused on their own interests, no one cares about the quality of the product on offer. As long as Hearts get their 4 OF games that's all that matters, nobody gives a damn about about progressing on the European stage, even though it would benefit the national team as well.
6/8 is the most likely split so the bottom clubs get two extra games over where they are now (38) to compensate for losing an OF game. The bottom 8 would play 40.

In respect of Rangers, it would see us play two FEWER games, with 36 instead of the current 38.

It won’t happen though.
 

gmbear

Well-Known Member
No matter what you think of Hearts they don't deserve to be relegated without a full season being completed, the same way Celtic don't deserve the title without playing all the games.
I thought that way, initially, but Hearts are happy to go along with the corruption that expelled them from the league, letting those behind the corruption off the hook, so long as those who fvcked them over work it so Hearts remain in the Premier League.

Fvck Hearts, a shameless, cowardly club that seems happy in amongst this shit. They could rid Scottish football of corruption, if they had the gumption. But they don't so fvck them!
 

The Iceman

Well-Known Member
It's how they get Brechin into the Spl , a bit tricky but might just happen.

The only thing left to do after they have hibs v tarriers cup final. Celtic will pump them and it will be a good day out for them all.
 

Hazylight1989

Well-Known Member
Rangers are in a tough position as we’ve consistently said through this that clubs shouldn’t be punished in this manner
Hearts were the first team to vote against us and made this statement in 2012:

'It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties, unfair pressuring of referees, who in themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves.'

%^*& Hearts - they have been the worse team in the league for a year and they deserve to go down - I would love Rangers to torpedo their plans.
 

grangers

Well-Known Member
I thought it might be a top 7, bottom 7, split. Either way, 40 or 42 is too many games. Even if they drop the LC we could easily have a good run in Europe which would add up to a dozen extra games. Throw in the SC and your potentially close to 60 games. Far too many. They're supposed to be looking to improve the game, not burn it out. Its so typical of Scottish football that everyone is so focused on their own interests, no one cares about the quality of the product on offer. As long as Hearts get their 4 OF games that's all that matters, nobody gives a damn about about progressing on the European stage, even though it would benefit the national team as well.
Split to 4 leagues of 4, 36 games

Oops, meant to quote the 16 team post
 

bedsblue

Well-Known Member
You really couldn't make this shite up,you put in charge a person who's club will be shafted before the corrupt decision has been made to come up with reconstruction to save yourself,away and fck.
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
Split to 4 leagues of 4, 36 games

Oops, meant to quote the 16 team post
While the math works I can’t see that being implemented mate. There are numerous issues, not least the logistics of balancing home and away games. I think it would also make the split so late in the season It would become redundant. Also 2 clubs would need to give up an OF game which potentially could be a cash cow. Under the present system you have 4 teams in with a chance of being in the top six each year, so you need to convince them to give that up. Your also creating 24 absolutely meaningless games with the middle 2 post split leagues, and I can also see problems with getting clubs to agree to that, especially as for 4 it will mean relegation playoffS before the relegation play offs
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
6/8 is the most likely split so the bottom clubs get two extra games over where they are now (38) to compensate for losing an OF game. The bottom 8 would play 40.

In respect of Rangers, it would see us play two FEWER games, with 36 instead of the current 38.

It won’t happen though.
My heads hurting with all this mate. As is always the case the tail is waggin the dog. Instead of approach reconstruction from the viewpoint of “what will make for better football?” it’s always TV money or diddy teams getting an OF game that rules the debate. Personally I’d like the old 1st division back with 18 teams playing twice a year, home and away. I know thats unlikely because of TV, but you know what, the TV money isn’t great anyway in the grand scheme of things. Instead of marketing the Scottish game around four games a season we should be trying to generation more interesting games outside of the OF and for Scottish teams to perform better in Europe.
 

rupertdabear

Active Member
spam fudge strikes again.
we own them nothing and only reason they were on side with us was because of them in the relegation position
Rangers need to look after Rangers
end of story
 

bigbluenose

Well-Known Member
I seen hearts supporters saying if they go to court and get the 3 million that they will loss it could be more depending how many championship games go ahead.
Each club would be liable for 70k each as spfl have no money.
The think that will scare enough teams into voting for league reconstruction
 

Mr Wilton

Well-Known Member
Surely to %^*& Budge must realise there’s no chance of reconstruction, the SPFL are corrupt and their only option is legal action? Surely by now she must see this? Or is she that naive!
 

grangers

Well-Known Member
While the math works I can’t see that being implemented mate. There are numerous issues, not least the logistics of balancing home and away games. I think it would also make the split so late in the season It would become redundant. Also 2 clubs would need to give up an OF game which potentially could be a cash cow. Under the present system you have 4 teams in with a chance of being in the top six each year, so you need to convince them to give that up. Your also creating 24 absolutely meaningless games with the middle 2 post split leagues, and I can also see problems with getting clubs to agree to that, especially as for 4 it will mean relegation playoffS before the relegation play offs
I totally realise that some teams would have to forego games against us, that's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned, we either do this, or something along those lines, to improve the absolute nonsensical split that we have now.
Of course there are meaningless games at the end of the season, especially from 5th to 12th but I'll bet there's not too many scenarios where this doesn't happen.
On the plus side, this addresses the amount of times we play a team home and away, also takes the number of times we play most teams to one home and one away, then after the splits another 6 games, three home and three away, with the closest rivals in the league.
As for the split being too late, that's the nature of the league at the moment, no scenario is going to fix that unless we had equal revenue sharing throughout the league, which is a separate issue.
 

Starting Anew

Well-Known Member
You’re wrong mate.

I’ve summarised the Articles below.

A change to the League structure that involves a variation, up or down, from the 42 club figure or which involves a redistribution of the prize money - requires 90% approval from the Premiership clubs (11-1). It is classed as a Qualified Resolution. And 75% approval in each of the other two voting blocks.

However, any change that sees the number of clubs remain at 42 - however they are structured - and requires no change in the prize money would be deemed an Ordinary Resolution or a Members Resolution. As such it would require 75% approval from Premiership clubs, 75% approval from Championship clubs and 75% approval from the combined League 1/2 clubs.

Same as the Rangers Members Resolution recently.

If the clubs agree on a reconstruction model that sees the total number of clubs remain at 42 and no changes to the prize money distribution then it only requires the 75% approval from each of the three voting blocks.
how could a 14 or 16 team top tier not change the prize money? Would the bottom 2 or 4 teams get no money? Or the equivalent of top 2/4 championship money, leaving them increasingly further adrift from the other SPL teams? Or am I misunderstanding this?
 

Artful Dodger

Active Member
Get her and her poxy club to fu*k.Was bought off with promise of reconstruction talks.They fail and she’s threatening court action.When they fail again and they will whats your next step Ann?Arsehole of a woman fu*k her and her club.Ta ta
 

borderbear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Hearts no more deserve to get relegated than than the dark side deserve to be handed the title. That’s the facts.
Budge is now selling her soul to try and save her club. I would expect the same from our leaders, if the shoe was on the other foot. A drop to the Championship could end them.
Hearts are arguably the 3rd biggest club in Scottish football . It cannot be good for our game should they fold.
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
I totally realise that some teams would have to forego games against us, that's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned, we either do this, or something along those lines, to improve the absolute nonsensical split that we have now.
Of course there are meaningless games at the end of the season, especially from 5th to 12th but I'll bet there's not too many scenarios where this doesn't happen.
On the plus side, this addresses the amount of times we play a team home and away, also takes the number of times we play most teams to one home and one away, then after the splits another 6 games, three home and three away, with the closest rivals in the league.
As for the split being too late, that's the nature of the league at the moment, no scenario is going to fix that unless we had equal revenue sharing throughout the league, which is a separate issue.
I wasn’t criticizing your idea as much as pointing out the reasons why it would never get the necessary support to implement it. Scottish football really needs to take a long hard look at itself and start thinking from a standpoint of what will improve the football. If we can do that, and increase our representation in Europe, then TV money will look after itself. The SPFL is ruled by fear, which is never a good way to do something constructive. Given the glory days of Scottish football in Europe came in the 60s and early 70s id prefer a return to an 18 team league, playing each other home and away.
 

Valley Bluenose

Well-Known Member
how could a 14 or 16 team top tier not change the prize money? Would the bottom 2 or 4 teams get no money? Or the equivalent of top 2/4 championship money, leaving them increasingly further adrift from the other SPL teams? Or am I misunderstanding this?
See post #78. You are misunderstanding in the same way as many other in thinking the top flight has its own prize pot. It doesn’t. The prize pot is distributed via percentages from club 1 all the way down to club 42.
 

grangers

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t criticizing your idea as much as pointing out the reasons why it would never get the necessary support to implement it. Scottish football really needs to take a long hard look at itself and start thinking from a standpoint of what will improve the football. If we can do that, and increase our representation in Europe, then TV money will look after itself. The SPFL is ruled by fear, which is never a good way to do something constructive. Given the glory days of Scottish football in Europe came in the 60s and early 70s id prefer a return to an 18 team league, playing each other home and away.
I know bud, but what you have to remember is that back when we had an 18 team league the grass roots were a lot different than they are today, there was hardly a blade of grass that didn't have a kid kicking a ball on it, and even then we had dross teams galore, it would be ten times worse nowadays although we more than likely would up the amount of foreign dross than we had back then.
Fair to say that I'm firmly in the camp of we don't have enough talent, nor do we offer enough cash to talented foreigners, to support an 18 team top division.
 

Laudrup11Cooper

Well-Known Member
Club owner consults across the four divisions

Hearts owner Ann Budge is holding in-depth discussions with Scottish clubs as she prepares to finalise her league reconstruction proposal – which will not be ready until Monday at the earliest.
The Edinburgh businesswoman had hoped to circulate her plan by close of business yesterday but is still consulting teams in all four divisions of the Scottish Professional Football League.
She feels she is making progress on a paper to offer an amended structure to help Scottish football through the coronavirus pandemic.

It will involve an expanded Premiership and keep Hearts in the top flight by increasing the number of teams from 12 to 14 or potentially 16.

Budge is speaking with clubs to understand their individual circumstances, financial challenges and concerns before finalising her document.

Monday is the earliest date that the proposal would be ready as Budge tries to ensure the plan is as robust and thorough as possible to give it the best chance of approval.

Hearts suffered an enforced relegation to the Championship on Monday when the SPFL board ratified the termination of season 2019-20.

League reconstruction is the Tynecastle hierarchy’s preferred option. In order to achieve it, Budge would need to submit a members’ resolution for a restructure to the SPFL, which would then require a vote from all 42 clubs. To pass, 11 of the 12 Premiership teams would be required to vote in favour as there would likely be changes to prize money distribution and, potentially, clubs added to the existing 42 SPFL members.

If there was no change in prize money distribution and no extra teams added, only nine top-flight clubs would need to say ‘yes’. Either scenario would also require approval from eight teams in the Championship and 15 in total across League One and League Two.

Hearts would be voting as a Championship side with their top-flight place taken by promoted Dundee United. Daniel Stendel, the Tynecastle manager, is not confident that Budge’s reconstruction plan will succeed. The German coach believes the voting process is stacked against Hearts.
“My experience tells me that the chance is not very big,” 
he said in an interview with German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine.

“Voting is complicated in Scotland. There can only be one or two votes against and it is usually the case in life that, in the end, everyone looks at themselves. But there is still some hope.”
Stendel is frustrated that the campaign was cut short with Hearts four points adrift at the bottom of the Premiership after a 1-0 loss at St Mirren in their final fixture before the shutdown. They had a further eight league games remaining before the SPFL took the decision to end the season early.
Stendel joined Hearts in December and instantly took to the surroundings at Tynecastle Park. “There are 20,000 fans – sometimes louder than 50,000 in Hannover,” he said.
His team beat Rangers twice and won a pulsating Edinburgh derby against Hibs at Easter Road, but he added: “Then you come to St Mirren and lose 1-0.”
Do turkey's vote for Christmas?
 

yardie

Well-Known Member
Hearts were the first team to vote against us and made this statement in 2012:

'It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties, unfair pressuring of referees, who in themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves.'

%^*& Hearts - they have been the worse team in the league for a year and they deserve to go down - I would love Rangers to torpedo their plans.
I believe that the above quote was from the highly respected Russian Mafia money launderer who is now on the run. A darling of the SPFL.
 

THEGOVANFRONT

Well-Known Member
I think if this reconstruction goes through to save Hearts & promote Dundee then this has been a stitch up from day 1
This would have seen false reconstruction talks to see Hearts relegated & no Dundee promotion take place to ensure the SPFLs corruption is not highlighted in greater detail before the independent enquiry vote only for the vote to save the SPFLs skin & then surprise surprise what Dundee claim to have achieved since their "paused vote" comes to fruition/ back up with the team to be relegated in charge of the reconstruction talks to see who is relegated & promoted saving Hearts & Dundee
Surely this isnt what is happening right in front of our eyes?????
 

yardie

Well-Known Member
I think if this reconstruction goes through to save Hearts & promote Dundee then this has been a stitch up from day 1
This would have seen false reconstruction talks to see Hearts relegated & no Dundee promotion take place to ensure the SPFLs corruption is not highlighted in greater detail before the independent enquiry vote only for the vote to save the SPFLs skin & then surprise surprise what Dundee claim to have achieved since their "paused vote" comes to fruition/ back up with the team to be relegated in charge of the reconstruction talks to see who is relegated & promoted saving Hearts & Dundee
Surely this isnt what is happening right in front of our eyes?????
I would be very surprised if recent events were not included in volume II of our Dossier on maladministration, to refer it in polite terms.

If we as a club are shareholders in the SPFL then we are entitled to challenge the Board for maladministration and breach of the Companies Act.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
 

bluestory

Well-Known Member
Hearts were the first team to vote against us and made this statement in 2012:

'It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties, unfair pressuring of referees, who in themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves.'

%^*& Hearts - they have been the worse team in the league for a year and they deserve to go down - I would love Rangers to torpedo their plans.
Vladimir Romanov wrote that! Strange you would take it so personally! Boy was a nutter.
 

Ponientebear

Well-Known Member
They’ve had their go a reconstruction and if failed but as everything Scotchland if you don’t get the vote you wanted you keep trying until you do,.
I have sat back shaking my head in disbelief at all the crazy permutations being spouted by all and sundry on here.
Bottom line is Rangers should be refusing to entertain reconstruction because it’s being forced through to save the arses of the people their accusing of failing in the corporate governance of this joke league.
Seeing the way this is going to go and Budge’s complete nativity in reading the situation, not once but twice it is beyond me how any sensible person can look at Scottish football as a fair and winnable league as long as the crooks running it remain.
 
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