Hearts/Partick Thistle SFA Charge (Notice of Complaint)

RfcIbrox said:
But what they did know and opted to keep secret from clubs before the Dundee vote was that finishing early would have financial penalties attached and the clubs would bear the potential loss of revenue. And still the clubs refused to back an independent investigation paid by Rangers.
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Think they actually claimed that they didn't need to clarify that the potential clawback was the same for both options as it was obvious that it applied to any games not completed under any option. The fact they specifically chose not to mention it all in their preferred option was, to them, totally irrelevant.
And the clubs, as you say, still refused to back our calls for an independent investigation thereby leading directly to where we now stand.
 
1288Bear said:
From memory there was briefly an explanation given as to why Null & Void was not an option.

It went along the lines of the strict definition of Null & Void means that it is "as if it never existed" and, as such, if it never existed TV companies, sponsors even Season Ticket holders could not only claim a rebate for the outstanding games but could also claim back the money for the games that had been played but now didn't exist.

This was proved to be nonsense and very quickly the narrative changed to simply repeating the line ad nauseam that "N&V, as has been pointed out previously and explained, is not an option".

Even pointing out that it was nonsense and suggesting that, if the definition of N&V was the issue, you call it "incomplete" was simply ignored by those with the original agenda.
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Did the sfa not contact the west of Scotland junior league and told them to reverse the decision to null and void that they had taken at a meeting the day before and award the title to Talbot on an average points basis- as null and void would have ramifications on junior teams entering the Scottish cup and also affect the pyramid system
 
MCKAY72 said:
So when do H/PT request the induction delaying the season?
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They have to give the SPFL time to respond to the arbitration, however that is time limited as the Judge put aside a date for it to return to court, if the SPFL don't respond in time or delay proceedings. However Hearts and PT should have been straight back to the judge, when the SFA issued their notice to them.
 
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weeprimeminister said:
What?...........to Dignitas??

Slightly off the subject, but I know a guy who went to Dignitas to finish himsely off, but after getting the jag, he felt better and decided to come home.

When I was speaking to him, he told me that on that morning, guess what he was given for breakfast...........................f**king CHEERIOS!!!
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It would be their sister company............Sporting Integritas.
 
Blues and Royals said:
For me, it's because Hearts have no problem with the Scum being handed a league title.
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The scum getting awarded a tainted title, isn't Hearts or PT's worry, relegation is, they don't want to dilute their legal challenge by going after titles. If Hearts and PT win the arbitration, or it goes back to the court and Judge Clark who rules in favour of them, then it's Rangers job to go after tainted titles imo.
 
joseph said:
Did the sfa not contact the west of Scotland junior league and told them to reverse the decision to null and void that they had taken at a meeting the day before and award the title to Talbot on an average points basis- as null and void would have ramifications on junior teams entering the Scottish cup and also affect the pyramid system
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Can't recall all the details but there was definitely an issue going back as far as January I believe with threats being made regarding participation in the Scottish Cup and the pyramid system. Think it might have been detailed in a joint statement from Broara Rangers and Kelty Hearts.
 
jweebear said:
The scum getting awarded a tainted title, isn't Hearts or PT's worry, relegation is, they don't want to dilute their legal challenge by going after titles. If Hearts and PT win the arbitration, or it goes back to the court and Judge Clark who rules in favour of them, then it's Rangers job to go after tainted titles imo.
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Noddy said:
That was Rangers' fight, not Hearts or Thistle's.
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I'm guessing his point is that, if Hearts are happy with titles being awarded then they should be happy with relegation being awarded (for want of a better term).
I don't think he's saying that it's Hearts job to fight the title award, but they most certainly didn't have to mention that they were happy with it, because if they are, then relegation has to follow.
 
Carsons Army said:
The problem is it has to be brought to the table. Otherwise to remove a CEO is normally a directors vote. So will the SPFL chairman suggest such?
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I acknowledge that CA.

It's vital that this hard evidence gets out in some way, in my opinion, in order that the
SPFL Clubs/Chairmen have clear evidence, as the I.I. would have shown, we think, that
not only has the executive behaviour has been disingenuous/corrupt but it has ultimately
cost them in their pockets ( ie a Hearts / Thistle payout ).

Don't you think that if this happens that we & others will look for resignations but with
more support than previously ?
 
Cavin said:
Not sure that's is, let's face it, the asterisk run is a joke, 4 x one horse races, 1 x main rivals falling apart and being deducted points, 1 x not actually winning it but being handed it = farce.
Probably more to do with the pot full of money that is the CL, hopefully that and a good bit more will be paid out when their paedo ring is finally forced out into the open
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Sorry but I hope the compensation is seen as a kind of justice for the victims, not as some impediment to that club's "success".

I honestly don't see how they can be allowed to stay open when found guilty.
 
Cavin said:
I don't think he's saying that it's Hearts job to fight the title award, but they most certainly didn't have to mention that they were happy with it, because if they are, then relegation has to follow.
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It's an argument which might come back to bite them on the arse. It makes no sense whatsoever. As you say, there was no need to even mention it. Almost as if they were acknowledging the real reason behind the corruption. Basically saying that's fine. IT REALLY ISN'T THOUGH.
 
HamiltonBear said:
It's an argument which might come back to bite them on the arse. It makes no sense whatsoever. As you say, there was no need to even mention it. Almost as if they were acknowledging the real reason behind the corruption. Basically saying that's fine. IT REALLY ISN'T THOUGH.
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They essentially have two routes for success. The first being the voting procedure and the Dundee vote itself. They need to question the actions of the board in the lead in to the vote (bullying and intimidation), the adequacy of the information provided, the result effectively being announced in advance to UEFA, the announcement of an incomplete vote and the legitimacy of Dundees original vote - all that has real potential to get the vote and decision overturned.

Their other avenue is to question the validity of relegating a team when the season has not been completed and the organisations rules do not allow for such circumstances. They define how relegation should be decided which is after the completion of a set number of games. Hearts and Partick's case in this respect is particularly strong, however, the fact that they themselves chose to specifically mention that they were not challenging the award of titles seems, to me, to weaken their arguement. If you accept the principle of winners you also need to accept the principle of losers and the consequences thereof.

It would have been more sensible to say nothing in this respect and have such matters decided as a consequence of the Hearts/Partick judgement.

In the words of The Whispers "to win somebody's got to lose".
 
archimedes said:
It's obvious why N&V was not an option, is it not?

No possibility of 'Ten' for the rhats. It really is that simple.
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Not really. Season 19/20 would not exist and they could continue their hunt for nine in a row in 20/21. That does of course run the risk that we get our act together and currently they would still be sitting with eight.
 
Cavin said:
I'm guessing his point is that, if Hearts are happy with titles being awarded then they should be happy with relegation being awarded (for want of a better term).
I don't think he's saying that it's Hearts job to fight the title award, but they most certainly didn't have to mention that they were happy with it, because if they are, then relegation has to follow.
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I'd say that Hearts are trying to mitigate any damage should they win. Given what happened in Belgium.

If a decision goes the way of Hearts and Thistle and their relegations are cancelled, then the Scums title needs to go as well.
 
EndOfDays said:
Does anyone know when the arbitration starts?
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I had a look on Kickback earlier today and the rumour among the jambos is that the arbitration is being delayed as the SPFL are late in producing the relevant documents and information that the judge instructed them to provide. Some of their punters are speculating that Budge may interdict to delay the start of the new season.
 
Cavin said:
I'm guessing his point is that, if Hearts are happy with titles being awarded then they should be happy with relegation being awarded (for want of a better term).
I don't think he's saying that it's Hearts job to fight the title award, but they most certainly didn't have to mention that they were happy with it, because if they are, then relegation has to follow.
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Presumably Hearts didn't want Celtic's resources to join Dundee Hivs, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers in opposition to them in this arbitration.
 
Govan36 said:
You've answered your own question there.
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Pretty sure we took them to court over the illegal transfer embargo and won. The judge ruled in our favour and awarded costs. The SFA from memory then hit us with a disciplinary charge for taking them to court and fined us the equivalent of their costs. They then blackmailed us with withholding our license if we didn't accept some form of transfer embargo/restriction. So we won and still ended up no better off.

That is why when gifted an opportunity to clean house we should be doing everything in our power to help remove this mob from power - they clearly believe they are untouchable, that they are above the law and can do whatever they please.
 
jimbear said:
I had a look on Kickback earlier today and the rumour among the jambos is that the arbitration is being delayed as the SPFL are late in producing the relevant documents and information that the judge instructed them to provide. Some of their punters are speculating that Budge may interdict to delay the start of the new season.
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These gangsters are shitting it to allow the evidence to get out Jim.

I wonder why ???? :)) :D
 
jimbear said:
I had a look on Kickback earlier today and the rumour among the jambos is that the arbitration is being delayed as the SPFL are late in producing the relevant documents and information that the judge instructed them to provide. Some of their punters are speculating that Budge may interdict to delay the start of the new season.
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It should legally be delayed as the spfl cannot afford to pay them the requested amount of compensation! Therefore let’s see what the rules and legal lawyers say - null and void
 
jimbear said:
I had a look on Kickback earlier today and the rumour among the jambos is that the arbitration is being delayed as the SPFL are late in producing the relevant documents and information that the judge instructed them to provide. Some of their punters are speculating that Budge may interdict to delay the start of the new season.
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Was the documentation to be issued by Tue I read somewhere.
It's been a couple of weeks now and still nothing in the public domain if it ever will be.
They have 2 working weeks until the season starts, I cannot see how this arbitration can be completed before the first game.
Unless something is happening behind closed doors, this must surely end up back in court.
 
Baz said:
I agree. If Hearts can prove that the Dundee vote was binding then the SPFL have never had any jurisdiction to call the league early - that is when we should move.
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100% and it will be void. Make no mistake the Hearts/Thistle legal case has the SPFL sweating. Not because Hearts or Stranraer will remain in their rightful leagues but because promotion and titles are then void. And this will hurt the SPFL aka Celtic. It was never 8 & 3/4. Patience.
 
Don’t be surprised if
Carsons Army said:
100% and it will be void. Make no mistake the Hearts/Thistle legal case has the SPFL sweating. Not because Hearts or Stranraer will remain in their rightful leagues but because promotion and titles are then void. And this will hurt the SPFL aka Celtic. It was never 8 & 3/4. Patience.
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don’t be surprised if they reach a settlement and it’s all dropped I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.
 
Allyscottsquiff said:
Don’t be surprised if
don’t be surprised if they reach a settlement and it’s all dropped I wouldn’t be surprised in the least.
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Agree, it would be surprising if that is not the route that the SPFL hierarchy have not already suggested. However, it is unlikely to be accepted unless what they offer is sufficiently high for Hearts and Thistle to convince their support that it is worthwhile and a high offer is bound to lead to questions from the member clubs. Suspect that Doncaster won’t be on the scene for too much longer. He is the most expendable of the gruesome trio and the chief candidate to be the fall guy.
 
Carsons Army said:
100% and it will be void. Make no mistake the Hearts/Thistle legal case has the SPFL sweating. Not because Hearts or Stranraer will remain in their rightful leagues but because promotion and titles are then void. And this will hurt the SPFL aka Celtic. It was never 8 & 3/4. Patience.
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Thanks for your guidance on this. Very useful.
 
Tomted said:
Agree, it would be surprising if that is not the route that the SPFL hierarchy have not already suggested. However, it is unlikely to be accepted unless what they offer is sufficiently high for Hearts and Thistle to convince their support that it is worthwhile and a high offer is bound to lead to questions from the member clubs. Suspect that Doncaster won’t be on the scene for too much longer. He is the most expendable of the gruesome trio and the chief candidate to be the fall guy.
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This is not what we want, and is a major risk I fear based upon our desires & objectives.
 
Carsons Army said:
100% and it will be void. Make no mistake the Hearts/Thistle legal case has the SPFL sweating. Not because Hearts or Stranraer will remain in their rightful leagues but because promotion and titles are then void. And this will hurt the SPFL aka Celtic. It was never 8 & 3/4. Patience.
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Hell will freeze over before that’s allowed to happen . They’ll be bought off I guarantee it . It’s an utter disgrace but there will be another £8 million knocked off the sky tv deal to pay hearts and thistle compo
 
Tomted said:
Agree, it would be surprising if that is not the route that the SPFL hierarchy have not already suggested. However, it is unlikely to be accepted unless what they offer is sufficiently high for Hearts and Thistle to convince their support that it is worthwhile and a high offer is bound to lead to questions from the member clubs. Suspect that Doncaster won’t be on the scene for too much longer. He is the most expendable of the gruesome trio and the chief candidate to be the fall guy.
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The soapdodgers will chip in with a brown envelope
 
Tomted said:
Agree, it would be surprising if that is not the route that the SPFL hierarchy have not already suggested. However, it is unlikely to be accepted unless what they offer is sufficiently high for Hearts and Thistle to convince their support that it is worthwhile and a high offer is bound to lead to questions from the member clubs. Suspect that Doncaster won’t be on the scene for too much longer. He is the most expendable of the gruesome trio and the chief candidate to be the fall guy.
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Isn’t he already lined up for his next gig at UEFA?
 
The soap dodgers can't afford to contribute. Their wage bill (£5m per month) is crippling them at present.

This is the main reason for the desperation to get the league called. The extra £1m in prize money being released, the income from their tainted 9 merchandise and access to the CL.

Historically they don't spend until they have secured CL group stage money or, alternatively, sold one of their assets. If they did it would seriously affect their cashflow.

With ST sales later than normal and a slower uptake, and no imminent sales at the required level they dont have cash readily available to fund this.

Other clubs are unlikely to survive the suggested compo coming out the prize pot and the SPFL dont have any other source of income to pay it. This is the reason the SFA, who have generally been very quiet throughout, suddenly appeared with their threats and intimidation designed to panic Hearts and PT into backing down.

They have been backed into a corner and really dont have many options.
 
Maybe unrelated but I hear there is a conference call for all clubs next week to discuss reconstruction again ... It’s Rangers who are instigating it to try and get colt teams into the league

Looks like we are trying to gain consensus
 
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