Shengus Malengus
Well-Known Member
The beasts filling their hovel for a league game is as rare as mentally challenged teeth.
Ibrox Capacity needs increased
- Thread starter SimonLeBon
- Start date
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
There will always be an element of a support that drifts away when results are poor or the performances are garbage. As much as winning 55, it’s more a surge perhaps now that we are competitive or have a chance. The demand is high now and when you look at the size of the support we have, I think if the club ups it’s game in terms of standing up for itself, marketing tickets perhaps more aggressively to fringe supporters, etc. I think we could genuine add 10,000 to the regular gate. As we have seen with the bheasts, fans will buy ST’s and may not go every week but they will still pay their cash.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
They will sell ST’s to fans who may not go every week but it still covers the costs and gives the bigger crowds for the bigger games. I genuinely think if we do things right on the PR, comms and pricing front, we could add 10k to the average gate and more for big games.
Shengus Malengus
Well-Known Member
You'll get no argument from me mate.
Merely touching on the fact we are far more loyal than the mutants.
Gib1958
Well-Known Member
Agree could probably sell an extra 10000 season tickets but how long will it take to recoup the money spent on the extension. To the ground .
We need to invest in what we have at present , the Team , maintance on Ibrox to make up for years of neglect . Once we get 55 & 56 under our belts then start to draw up plans for expansion and development of Ibrox and tbe area around it.
We need to invest in what we have at present , the Team , maintance on Ibrox to make up for years of neglect . Once we get 55 & 56 under our belts then start to draw up plans for expansion and development of Ibrox and tbe area around it.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
You only have to look at the way the fans have stuck by us through thin and thinner. The bheasts would not have surprised what we have had to endure.
Toproadloyal
Well-Known Member
When the corners where filled in, the original plan was seating which would’ve brought the capacity up to 59000.
Think Murray felt apart from the Scum and Champions league games it wouldnt be filled.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
Hard to say. The outlay would be large and as you say, it is imperative that we stay competitive and try to become the dominant force once again. It may depend on how the finance is raised (and therefore what if any interest is incurred).
As it appears that removing the screens and replacing with seats can not be achieved without resticting views, why not use the area available to put in areas of hospitality boxes which are always over subscribed at present? The ground then gets a modern kit out with the potential for large revenue streams.
AND smaller screens could be incorporated for those who like that sort of thing!
AND smaller screens could be incorporated for those who like that sort of thing!
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
How much would I think cost to the ncrease Inbrox capacity by 10k?
I'd guess £20m minimum.
J Spaceman
Well-Known Member
I much prefer this idea too.
And the stadium would be, in my view, aesthetically more pleasing than a patch up and seating job in the corners that could even cost as much as a third tier.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
Probably bud. Perhaps more. Maybe a Rangers friendly company would give a competitive quote?
If you said the average punter spends £1,000 (£500-550 for the season ticket, £200 in additional tickets, then £250-300 on food, drinks, additional merchandise), then there is a two year payback period, ignoring additional costs, staffing, stewarding, electricity, etc. To me, this is surely worth it.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
I admire your ambition S G.
I just think that we've got about 43-45k who will go week and n week out, the club will not spend £20m+ on a punt.
At the last count we grossed £13.6m for the sale of 43,253 s/t's (£314 average cost per season ticket ), we'll never average 49,500 for home games over a season, so sadly for me it's a no-no.
Hopefully I am being over pessimistic
alexg123
Well-Known Member
The Co-op Bank does fantastic loan rates according to a big fat Japanese - eyed guy I met near the piggery .
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
I haven’t looked at the numbers but I thought that ST’s were generally £400-600 a pop at present? I had the chance to buy a mate’s in the Govan Rear this year but living in London makes it hard to get back as much as I’d like. The price was like £620 or so I’m sure? My last ST in the Club Deck was £450-500 I think 5 or so years ago.
I think if the club defended itself and the support better, reached out more proactively to fans who perhaps have fallen by the side and with the natural upsurge in our fortunes, I think 10k on average is achieveable. Once people go back, they will be bitten again I feel. Many became apathetic under the spivs. It would be interesting to know the turnover of ST’s between fans as I think there was a substantial shift in those that had ST’s under the previous regime. I remember many talking about not renewing, lost seats, etc. and others buying new ST’s with their kids, etc.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
Figures quoted are from the plc's annual report ( to June, 2017 ).
Liverpool's new stand increased their capacity by 8,500 (approx ) and cost them £115m, I just can't see how we can afford the risk.
We rarely get 50,000 for the big games.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. Maybe factors in kids, etc.
Not sure how their development compares to any work required at Ibrox, in terms of the structural work required? I know Liverpool did go to extra lengths and made sure they were able to build around the existing structure, which I guess would be more expensive? Also I’m sure there is a substantial ‘wedding tax’ when your customer is an EPL club.
I thought we were selling out league games currently, even against lesser sides. You also have the benefit of selling ST’s, where fans will buy to get big games without having to go every week.
I could be wrong but I think the demand is there.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
Hope you're right S G, I'm just a bit risk averse now when it comes to Rangers.
We've had one 50,000+ crowd this season to date (50,116)
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
But what is our capacity and how many seats are lost to segregation. Where there is common knowledge of available seats, people will buy them. I think some probably think that there is no point in trying as games are generally sold out.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
I just disagree with you S R.
As I said before, hopefully it's me that's got it wrong.
One thing, do you seriously think that there are 10,000 guys waiting to cough between £480 & £600 for an s/t who are holding off because they're unsure of availability? S
We were selling s/t's 4 weeks ago.
Go in early a week on Sunday and you'll probably see spares for sale at the subway and on the periphery of the stadium.
Hopefully I'm wrong though - and I genuinely mean that S G.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
I think it would be a combination of effective marketing, sensible pricing and some would be ST’s and some match day tickets.
Maybe I am wrong and it wouldn’t be every week maybe but I think we could certainly up the capacity. The tims have a bigger stadium. We have a bigger support.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
Sampdoria aside, Juventus have the smallest stadium by some distance in the top 7 ( Serie A ), Napoli Inter, Roma's stadiums are 50 % bigger ( capacity-wise ).
Doesn't mean that Juventus can't be the best.
It would conservatively cost Rangers £30-40m to increase the capacity to 60,000, the club's market capitalisation is less than that. We can't afford to take a punt on our future, we've got a hardcore of approx 45,000 and the club should concentrate on restoring Ibrox to what it once was for the Bears that they can count on.
G C C would veto any proposed increase anyway, there is now insufficient parking to warrant any sort crease since they changed the parking regulations last year.
TimzRFudz
Well-Known Member
Commented earlier in the thread - any move like the ones proposed will obviously be based on the data... and I strongly suspect that would show us that we very rarely fully sell out the ground. Given our current status it would be utter madness to embark on any multimillion pound level of investment in the stadium. The current provision could be much more polished, provide a much better match day experience and in turn increase revenue... without increasing capacity. Murray's club deck - when you divide the cost by the number of seats installed - gave us the most expensive seats of any stadium in Britain at the time. We can't go spunking money on vanity projects again.
Also - FWIW - I don't think it hurts for their to be a demand for tickets. Would rather we had people keen to get their hands on tickets than the other end of the spectrum like at the StyDome - where there are loads of ST holders who rarely show up.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
I know what you are saying but surely then it becomes a case of PR, Comms, etc. to grow the fan base. How many kids were lost to EPL sides during the Spivs era. We are the biggest supported club and there are things we can do. It’s up to the club.
Re the parking bit, it’s up to the club to lobby the council (good luck!!!), the transport authorities (reduced travel costs), look at available coach parking, etc.
A short, medium and long-term approach is required and after all we have been through, the proactive stuff has gone out of the window to a degree but community outreach brings results. Us fans also have an obligation to promote the club to friends, family, kids, etc.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
What would you do to increase revenue or demand? Genuinely interested, not having a go.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
How full price many seats do you think we could fill week in week ou and how much do you think it would cost to extend the capacity to facilitate the demand
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
The costs are hard to say and it may depend on the financing (soft loans vs financing) but I think we could with the right strategy, PR and pricing fill between 5 and 10k more each week (some
may be absentee ST holders?) but for bigger games (bheasts, decent European games, etc.) we could sell 10-15k more I feel.
The thing that frustrates me is Rangers fans questioning our support, which is bigger and more loyal than that of the bheggars, yet they regularly fill their hovel for European and bigger domestic games.
TimzRFudz
Well-Known Member
Ok mate - this is off the top of my head and its late, excuse me if its a bit of a ramble.
Demand is "easy"... have a winning team in place that's competing on all fronts and back playing in Europe. A couple of qualifiers plus three home games in the Europa league would be 5 x 40,000+ x average ticket price of say £25. There's £5M gross for a start.
Revenue - obviously the kit and merchandising deals have still to be unveiled. Hard to speculate on that.
Inside the stadium the catering could be of higher quality and offer better choice. Would hate to see anyone lose money, but look at how much business the burger vans outside do. That could be money spent inside the stadium instead of it going to those third parties. Going even deeper on that front - I've thought for a long time we should look at franchising the stalls to places like Greggs, McDs, KFC, PizzaHut, or a noodles place etc. Yes they would take a whack of the profit, but I suspect the fans would enjoy the better choice, know what they were getting and we'd be dealing with companies that know how to churn out tasty food quickly. Also inside the stadium I'd revisit the WiFi issue. I suspect offering WiFi for say £1.50 a pop per game would be attractive to most people. If it was doable then that's another source of income. I'm a non-smoker (in fact it turns my stomach) but I'd also be in favour of properly vented shelters for people to use, which in turn would make the bogs a bit more pleasant and improve the match day experience.
I'd also be looking at the old Edmiston Club. Some sort of large sports bar area, combined with places to eat, kids / family zones, sky sports dotted around on various screens, bookies outlets etc..... Would encourage folk to get to the stadium earlier and spend money in areas that would directly provide revenue to Rangers. Could also be used for social events on non-match days etc. That could be developed and delivered with some modest investment (cheaper than new stands!) and with zero impact on the current stadium during the build or refit. If there was desire, it could be demolished and a new facility built - could even be of a stilted design so there would be a retention of some parking space. Would try to incorporate the current match day fanzone into it - currently its a bit of a poor effort.
Longer term the much vaunted museum, exiting into a new megastore, would be another revenue stream.
Like I said, just suggestions. But taken together no reason why they couldn't be adding significantly to the income year after year.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. All decent suggestions. The WiFi one is interesting. I think it seems to be hard to do such a thing, although I agree it could be a money spinner. I go the NFL games at Wembley and you just can’t get on the web. Seems that so many people in a small space is still a huge issue.
Cheers for the response.
Have a good night!
E10H
Well-Known Member
govanite
Well-Known Member
Some people are delusional thinking we couldn't fill Ibrox We need to have a committee fully committed to build support , We need to support the construction of a network of supporter clubs in every town possible organising parties events etc because very soon our enemies are going to try and land a massive blow to us ie nationalists etc We need strength in numbers to maximise income because down the line the big money clubs will go bust and we need sustainable revenue streams to be prepared to become a rich and big club again to compete at the top ie Europe . We are on a crest of something big lets not stagnate like through the murray years when we were on top while we should have been building our support and accommodating them .Those saying Ibrox cannot be extended give us the proof on stone because i believe we can nothing is impossible we survived and we need to build bigger better and more sustainable then we can become the people again.
Sam_Seaborn
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a train of thought that the cost of removing the steel supports and filling the corners would costs a ridiculous amount of money for what the actual gain would be.
So let me ask this, hypothetically, would it not make more sense to knock down the three stands and totally rebuild a horseshoe, thus giving us a new and modern stadium, reducing maintenance for a good few years of it being built (presumably), saving on future costs of maintaining our current stands, adding in extra capacity in the process and possibly adding in more premium Bar 72 areas which would bring in increased ST revenue.
I fully understand that this is pie in the sky stuff, but since the thread is here I thought I’d ask the question. Just seems to me that you may get more for your money with this scenario, even though the initial outlay would be massive.
So let me ask this, hypothetically, would it not make more sense to knock down the three stands and totally rebuild a horseshoe, thus giving us a new and modern stadium, reducing maintenance for a good few years of it being built (presumably), saving on future costs of maintaining our current stands, adding in extra capacity in the process and possibly adding in more premium Bar 72 areas which would bring in increased ST revenue.
I fully understand that this is pie in the sky stuff, but since the thread is here I thought I’d ask the question. Just seems to me that you may get more for your money with this scenario, even though the initial outlay would be massive.
Teddyjohn
Well-Known Member
The reason we rarely get 50,000 plus is because we’re relying on the away support selling out. We lose thousands of seats to away fans and segregation. We generally always sell out our own allocation for the big games.
johnkp
Well-Known Member
Here's the 'empty' version ...
Technical and financial obstacles aside, it looks very impressive, I have to say.
CupidStunt
Well-Known Member
I know the land issues have caused issues for us, but genuine question - how would that affect a third tier on the Govan for example?
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Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
We've had two crowds of over 50,000 in the last 14 months, we grossed under £13.4k n s/t money off the back of 43,253 s/t sales (£314 average cost of each s/t), That doesn't indicate a desire for an increase to the current capacity.
Assuming G C C don't block the planning proposal; Rangers could increase capacity, the reduction in local matchday parking in the Ibrox surrounds ( EDER ) would make the G C C go ahead all but impossiblethough.
In your last sentence you say that the rebuild should be sustainabl, how many extra seats would you expect the rebuild to provide how much would The rebuilding work costsand how would we pay for it?
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
It's not about not being able to fill Ibrox, it has to be done consistently for the extra 10,000 extra seats mooted on here.
Thousands of empty seats at matches would be counter productive to the whole point of the increase. The stadium needs modified with moderate extension as opposed to extra tiers similar to the Club Deck.
Sons of the Gers
Well-Known Member
At that price you knock down and rebuild that way you gave it how you want and not just how it has to be.
The problem is there is no moderate extension at a cost effective prices. The best example i can give to this is the M80/M74 extensions. The M80 was twice as long but half the price that the M74 cost.
The M80 virgin ground new road laid with some junction modifications. The M74 had to be built round or across railways lines, rivers, roads, buildings hence the higher costs. So in Rangers terms we are building an M74 rather than an M80 to fill in the corners. I'm not comparing the cost of these projects as comparable cost to any work at Ibrox.
If people think the club deck was a waste of money for the increase in capacity then filling the corners would be viewed upon in the same manor. Since it itself was an "m74" build.
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
I don't think the CD was a waste of money but it's rarely sold out and if it is, it's the last to go, so paints the picture that it's not popular. Not sure of the need to pitch in a similar project with yet more seats.
I've outlined my masterplan earlier in the thread, but the whole big extension may not be filled and is therefore not the best way, IMO. There's no waiting list for season tickets either (as far as I am aware?)
Sons of the Gers
Well-Known Member
I didn't personally mean you think it was a waste of money but many do and many also use it as a stick to beat Murray, it can't be denied, there have been many posts on various threads on here over the years attesting to those facts.
To me, as someone in the construction industry, it's an piece of engineering genius, working on a listed building and externally what it adds, it does look magnificent.
Knock down the Copland, Broomloan and Govan and reinvent them. Copland Front safe standing, Copland Rear seating
Govan Front safe standing, Govan Rear, first few rows hospitality a la Club Europe, the rest seated.
Broomloan Front safe standing (no season ticket) Broomloan Rear, family stand all seated.
Away support housed in the East Enclosure.
Govan East and West part safe standing at the front and hospitality seats towards the back.
I'm protecting this masterplan legally as my idea....
Did you copy that from my post in the last thread about this. It's pretty similar
I'd rebuild the 3 stands in a horse shoe with 3 tiers similar to the Emerates, I would also looking safe standing not to the extents as yourself purely as I don't think there would be such high demand. I'd have the Middle/hospitality tier to be a combination of both argyle house and club Europe. 5 course meals instead of buffets etc.
The Ultimate Warrior
Well-Known Member
Doubt it is a goer but questions would have to be asked re where Scottish attendances will be in 5 or so years time.
A lot of people who attend Ibrox are ehmm older and questionable if attendances hold up long term in Scotland (not just at uhabbits
A sweeping statement but most younger people aren't as religious with their match going habbits.
A lot of people who attend Ibrox are ehmm older and questionable if attendances hold up long term in Scotland (not just at uhabbits
A sweeping statement but most younger people aren't as religious with their match going habbits.
The pillars that support the box beams on top of the three stand roofs are the problem. I often wonder if it would be possible to support the roofs temporarily whilst installing new roof beams that would extend beyond the back of the Copland and Broomloan for the Sandy Jardine roof and beyond the back of the Sandy Jardine for the Copland and Broomloan. That would allow filling the corners full height with no restricted views.
I'd also plan to have a bridge from Broomloan Road into the back of the SJ/Broomloan corner so that opposition support (particularly them) can get in and out whilst allowing the Rangers support unfettered access around the whole ground.
And if the money was there, the roof of the SJ would be replaced to allow installation of a third tier as and when funds allowed.
I'd also plan to have a bridge from Broomloan Road into the back of the SJ/Broomloan corner so that opposition support (particularly them) can get in and out whilst allowing the Rangers support unfettered access around the whole ground.
And if the money was there, the roof of the SJ would be replaced to allow installation of a third tier as and when funds allowed.
Treble Kings
Well-Known Member
You can sling temporary scaffolding up at shitey wee grounds when we visit(including the tramphitheatre)that's deemed safe enough to watch a sporting event.
We can send man to Mars if so required.
This guy is pumping the big blonde thing.
Yet we've to believe the technology is not there to build a permanent structure between two solid stands.
I'm calling bollocks on that one.
Ain't that the big racist tranny that works works for Labour now....?
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
I didn't personally mean you think it was a waste of money but many do and many also use it as a stick to beat Murray, it can't be denied, there have been many posts on various threads on here over the years attesting to those facts.
To me, as someone in the construction industry, it's an piece of engineering genius, working on a listed building and externally what it adds, it does look magnificent.
Did you copy that from my post in the last thread about this. It's pretty similar
I'd rebuild the 3 stands in a horse shoe with 3 tiers similar to the Emerates, I would also looking safe standing not to the extents as yourself purely as I don't think there would be such high demand. I'd have the Middle/hospitality tier to be a combination of both argyle house and club Europe. 5 course meals instead of buffets etc.
nope, made it all up on my own. Maybe overkill for safe standing options but I do feel that there has to be a section for non STs as ST culture of seats has all but added to atmosphere kill.It would look vast and spectacular, no doubt but for me it's consistently filling it.
Virgil Hilts
Well-Known Member
We should be concentrating on making our Ibrox the best that it can be.
Unless it was fully funded via debenture, a meaningful increase to Ibrox capacity would be financial suicide.
Not that G C C would sanction an increase anyway.
Honza1872
Well-Known Member
Do you think Arsenal built their stadium expecting it to be repaid straight away? the same goes for Spurs. It's called forward planning and building for the future.
Honza1872
Well-Known Member
I know we don't have the money for it and I know we could not borrow the money for it now either, but folk are saying they wouldn't increase the stadium regardless due to the financial return, that part I don't get as it obviously would be repaid through time.
remembertheepoch
Well-Known Member
The core beam can be removed, the govan was built with foundations to safely accomodate a third tier.
Kathmandu
Well-Known Member
The Emerites cost them £390m, they got £30m from the sale of Highbury, they sold off naming right till 2024 for a measly £200m. Their lowest season ticket costs over £1k. They got £148m for their finishing place in the EPL and I haven’t a clue how much they got from the multi billion £ tv deal.
They are generating funds to enable them to repay. Us regenerating Ibrox would be in the 10s of millions if not 100’s.
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