Is Klopp a better manager than Pep?

[Leo_Ger]

These threads are great for separating clued up football fans from the the rest. Usually there’s little acknowledgment of the fact Barca were 3rd place behind Villarreal when Guardiola took over, and City had finished 4th when he took up his position there, or that Klopp at one point had Dortmund right down around the relegation zone.

Two brilliant managers, but one revolutionised the game and had a side play the most attractive football the modern game has seen, so much so many a team spent subsequent years trying to emulate it.

Can make that argument for Klopp as well tbh. Gegenpressing by his Dortmund team has an indelible influence on modern football subsequently. In fact, transitions and counter pressing are a bigger focus in the modern game than tiki taka.

However, the reality is neither of them created the style of football they're famous for.

 

[KensingtonBlue]

Both are incredible and both have totally different strengths and styles.

Klopp oozes charisma and is a great motivator.

Pep is an extremely meticulous thinker and perfectionist. Possibly one of the greatest tacticians of all time.

In recent times Klopp has had the better success, but over the course Pep’s legacy destroys almost anyone’s. As others have said, we’ll probably look back at this time the same way we look at Messi v Ronaldo - we’re around at a time two of the greatest ever were in their prime.

 

[Dalmuirbear]

They are both outstanding coaches.

I will leave it at that.

 

[Danger Zone]

Not even close for me. Klopp miles ahead. Better style of football, gets more out of the players he’s got, doesn’t need to spend billions, makes his team the best in Europe rather than join the already best.

How were third placed Barca or 4th placed City “the best in Europe” when Guardiola joined? ‘Kin embarrassing

 

[cooperman]

There’s always an element of luck in cup football though. If that’s where true greatness is measured then Zidane is hands down the greatest manager in the world.

that's why I did also wrote "even that does not mean 1 manager is better than the other" there's no an exact science to this, and I don't pretend to know enough about football to be able to articulate why one manager is better than the other, I prefer klopp cause to me he gets in good players, not the top of the range types in general with a couple of exceptions, Salah and Alisson, Van Dijk was no the superstar he is now before klopp got a hold of him, Andy Robertson he's now one of the best leftbacks in the world, how much is that liverpool squad worth now do you think? compare it to man city to amount spent on their squad to what they're valued now.
As for the champions league, yes you do need a wee bit of luck, but for pep to spend the amount of money he has, and no get even a sniff of it for so long, it's a wee blot on his copy book. in saying all that he could win it this season.

 

[Gazman_Airdrie]

How were third places Barca or 4th places City “the best in Europe” when Guardiola joined? ‘Kin embarrassing

Barcelona had an absolutely horrendous season 07-08 to finish 3rd, the season before 06-07 they finished level points with Madrid and lost on H2H.

Likewise, the Bayern team he took over were dominating.

He joined City the summer after the freak season Leicester won the league, and was 5 pts behind 2nd place Arsenal and having reached the semi-final of the CL, losing by 1 goal to eventual winners Madrid.

To even try and compare any of those sides to that which was inherited by Klopp is the deffinition of "'kin embarrassing"

 

[andyfaethehill]

a simple yes for me

 

[Danger Zone]

that's why I did also wrote "even that does not mean 1 manager is better than the other" there's no an exact science to this, and I don't pretend to know enough about football to be able to articulate why one manager is better than the other, I prefer klopp cause to me he gets in good players, not the top of the range types in general with a couple of exceptions, Salah and Alisson, Van Dijk was no the superstar he is now before klopp got a hold of him, Andy Robertson he's now one of the best leftbacks in the world, how much is that liverpool squad worth now do you think? compare it to man city to amount spent on their squad to what they're valued now.
As for the champions league, yes you do need a wee bit of luck, but for pep to spend the amount of money he has, and no get even a sniff of it for so long, it's a wee blot on his copy book. in saying all that he could win it this season.

All of Klopp’s players are top players though. There’s no diddies in his side.

You’re right though it’s not an exact science, but the idea Klopp’s well out in front of laughable when you look at the whole picture and not just the last 12 months as most of the newly inducted Liverpool fanatics prefer to do.

 

[km_2083]

Klopp is a far better manger than pep, always felt pep is a cheque book manager. Klopp got Dortmund to a champions league final and won it with Liverpool , pep’s champions league record out with a Barca team that picked its self has not been great for what it should be

 

[Danger Zone]

Barcelona had an absolutely horrendous season 07-08 to finish 3rd, the season before 06-07 they finished level points with Madrid and lost on H2H.

Likewise, the Bayern team he took over were dominating.

He joined City the summer after the freak season Leicester won the league, and was 5 pts behind 2nd place Arsenal and having reached the semi-final of the CL, losing by 1 goal to eventual winners Madrid.

To even try and compare any of those sides to that which was inherited by Klopp is the deffinition of "'kin embarrassing"

Well I mean, let’s stick to my point, they absolutely weren’t the best sides in Europe were they? Unless you’re suggesting Barca losing on H2H to a madrid side who couldn’t get near a CL final is some sort of show of European dominance, or the fact Leicester winning the league the year prior to Guardiola’s arrival somehow paints that City squad in a better light. It’s a laughable statement, and Klopp’s been there 5 years now, he’s not walked in a put a team of winners together over night. It’s taken a long time and a whole lot of money, yeah the side he inherited werent in as good a nick as what Guardiola was given but then that’ll be why Guardiola’s went in and achieved his success a lot quicker, I mean it’s all relative isn’t it. Some amount of fantasy on the thread though.

 

[cooperman]

All of Klopp’s players are top players though. There’s no diddies in his side.

You’re right though it’s not an exact science, but the idea Klopp’s well out in front of laughable when you look at the whole picture and not just the last 12 months as most of the newly inducted Liverpool fanatics prefer to do.

I don't think that, there's a baw hair between them on any given day, but if you reframe the question to if we had a chance in a fantasyland somewhere, which one of them would you pick to manage us? I'd pick klopp, what about you?

 

[Danger Zone]

I don't think that, there's a baw hair between them on any given day, but if you reframe the question to if we had a chance in a fantasyland somewhere, which one of them would you pick to manage us? I'd pick klopp, what about you?

I’ll take the one that wins most of the trophies since I want as much silverware as possible. Obviously take Klopp in a heartbeat too.

 

[cooperman]

I’ll take the one that wins most of the trophies since I want as much silverware as possible. Obviously take Klopp in a heartbeat too.

well with either of then, sweeping the board is a given, but whose style do you prefer to watch?

 

[Danger Zone]

well with either of then, sweeping the board is a given, but whose style do you prefer to watch?

Guardiola easy, never seen football played better than the way his sides play it.

 

[Wugs]

He is this season.

 

[96thekop]

I'd say they are about the same tbh. I prefer klopp because he takes on bigger challenges. It's hard to remember just how mediocre Liverpool were.

Well then,let me remind people....klopps first game in charge the players on the bench that day were Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall.Today Liverpool are the English and European champions, World club and supercup champions after spending about 5 million on transfers last summer.For me,the best manager in the game,im so happy he took the Liverpool rebuild job instead of walking into a vault of money to buy a title like the fraud in manchester

 

[Gazman_Airdrie]

Well I mean, let’s stick to my point, they absolutely weren’t the best sides in Europe were they? Unless you’re suggesting Barca losing on H2H to a madrid side who couldn’t get near a CL final is some sort of show of European dominance, or the fact Leicester winning the league the year prior to Guardiola’s arrival somehow paints that City squad in a better light. It’s a laughable statement, and Klopp’s been there 5 years now, he’s not walked in a put a team of winners together over night. It’s taken a long time and a whole lot of money, yeah the side he inherited werent in as good a nick as what Guardiola was given but then that’ll be why Guardiola’s went in and achieved his success a lot quicker, I mean it’s all relative isn’t it. Some amount of fantasy on the thread though.

I'm not arguing Guardiola hasn't been a tremendous manager, both of them are and are up there as the best on the planet.

I'm saying that I believe Klopp's achievement with Liverpool is greater than that which Guardiola has achieved.

And FWIW, I've dreaded Liverpool winning the league for the gloating of their support.

 

[usbear]

Both have revolutionized football in their own right.

You can’t argue with Peps record.

Pep is an intellectual / football genius / innovator with a more clinical serious demeanor who shows little empathy.

I would prefer to play for a manager like Klopp his personality and playing style bring bring a childlike joy to the game unlike many other managers.

 

[petric]

Lol.

Klopp.

 

[El Mas Loco]

How were third placed Barca or 4th placed City “the best in Europe” when Guardiola joined? ‘Kin embarrassing

Messi, Etoo, Ronaldinho, Deco, Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta all in the team. The poor man.

He has spent £1.3b on players. Hardly the sign of a great manager.

 

[John Wilson]

Another thing is Pep signs superstars. Which City players he has signed would have been regarded as superstars at their time of signing? I would say both have signed good players and played their part turns them into great players.

Laporte, superstar? Gabriel Jesus, superstar? Otamendi, superstar? Rodri? Sane? Below is a list off all his City signings. Not one I'd call a superstar.

Pep Guardiola - Purchased players

Diese Übersicht listet alle Spieler auf, die während aller Amtszeiten des Trainers Pep Guardiola verpflichtet wurden.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[KensingtonBlue]

He has spent £1.3b on players. Hardly the sign of a great manager.

If he's given a budget why wouldn't he spend it? He's not the club accountant, he's the football coach.

I'm not sure why spending a lot detracts from a manager's record either. Surely there's a reason he's been given so much to spend? Perhaps because his clubs recognise that he's a great manager and he'll make the most of it?

No one gives an idiot £1.3bn to spend if they don't believe he's extremely capable.

 

[PaulHWATP]

Thinking about tonight and Pep has won leagues with the best teams in their league. Does Klopp trump that with Dortmund and Liverpool? Yes he had money but unfancied teams compared to Pep.

Personally I would say Klopp and he has done champions league and premiership also with Liverpool so that swings it for me.

 

[cooperman]

29 minutes in merson explains what he sees as the difference between the two, and why he likes klopp more

 

[Gibby_ff]

Klopp hands down in my opinion. Pep obviously is a pretty special manager, but he never exactly goes anywhere with a project. He goes to super clubs with an unlimited budget. Klopp is such a great man manager, he has managed to find that balance between being friendly with the players and also knowing when to be strict. What a team spirit he builds within a dressing room

 

[Danger Zone]

Messi, Etoo, Ronaldinho, Deco, Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta all in the team. The poor man.

He has spent £1.3b on players. Hardly the sign of a great manager.

Ronaldinho and Deco never played under Guardiola, they were the first two players he papped out when he walked trough the door. You have no clue what you’re talking about pal.

 

[Danger Zone]

29 minutes in merson explains what he sees as the difference between the two, and why he likes klopp more

Merson’s biggest gripe will be that he said Guardiola had been sussed in the Premier League after his first year, only to be left looking like a slavering idiot the very next season.

 

[Stuhercules]

Klopp for me

 

[Gazb1962]

I love watching both teams because they play some quality football and both managers are excellent.

However ( and it’s just my opinion ) I think Jose has the better record purely because of his champions league record and he’s also the only one of the top managers who has won it without spending fortunes when at Porto.

Sadly he has lost the magic in recent years.

 

[blueshire]

I think both are brilliant but I'll strip it back to this.

Klopp looked at what he had and knew he needed a defensive spine so spent his kitty on VVD and Allison. After losing Kompany and even with Laporte (very unlucky with his injury), I felt City were short.

You get the impression that Pep has the misplaced belief he could turn me into a centre back if he wanted. This is elite level and City need another elite centre back. That cost them in so many games this season.

Very good post,my mate goes to city games and said the exact same,if city had laporte fit and had a coulabaly or vvd beside him you are looking at a cracking team,looks like peps downfall has been not replacing kompany and laporte out injured,will be interesting to see how he rectifies this.

 

[buc11]

Pep is a genius, Klopp is better.

If Pep were to take over at Arsenal and reach back to back CL finals and be English, European and World champions at the same time then I'd reconsider.

 

[cooperman]

Merson’s biggest gripe will be that he said Guardiola had been sussed in the Premier League after his first year, only to be left looking like a slavering idiot the very next season.

Still made some valid points though

 

[The Barcelona Bear]

It's one of these that is down to opinions, both have been blessed with quality players.

 

[El Mas Loco]

Ronaldinho and Deco never played under Guardiola, they were the first two players he papped out when he walked trough the door. You have no clue what you’re talking about pal.

Good managers don’t need to spend £1.3b. You can wank yourself into a Pep frenzy as much as you want, he’s a Mediterranean Harry Redknapp.

 

[Ghost2008]

Pep is a Bell end. Loves himself. For me Klopp is a much better Manager.

 

[knightswood_bear]

pep is a brilliant manager but he was at Barca with a team that picked itself, same with Bayern and Man City has basically unlimited funds. Could fire Mourinho in that as he won league at Porto Chelsea Madrid and inter

The Barca team that could pick itself were nowhere near the level Pep had them at before he came in.

They are both great managers but very different.

 

[NotOffside]

Both sensational managers but right now you would have to have a screw loose somewhat not to go with Klopp if you had to choose. Would love to see Thomas Tuchel and Julian Nagelsmann in the EPL up against these two. Maybe Tuchel at Spurs and Nagelsmann at Arsenal.

 

[Kylegib]

Yes of course he is, Klopp won the title with Dortmund whilst facing the financial might of Bayern. He's now went to liverpool facing the financial might of Manchester City. He's won titles whilst being with the team that's the underdog. Pepp is a great manager and has his sides playing fantastic football but he is generally with the team that's expected to win the title. Liverpool have now went 18 months with only losing 2 games that is remarkable consistency and here's hoping it continues.

 

[baystatebear]

The use of the term 'cheque-book manager' in relation to Guardiola, carries with it the facile and entirely incorrect implication that his success as a manager is solely attributable to his having access to vast sums of transfer monies. Not true. If you equate a huge transfer budget with on-field success, then over the past few seasons ManU would have swept all before them.

No, Pep's success as a manager lies in having a particular vision as to the way football should be played, and in persuading his players to buy into his philosophy. In addition to being a brilliant tactical coach, he is also a superb teacher, having developed the skills of the young players in his squad - Fodden and Sterling for e.g. as well as managing to providing playing time for other young players on the periphery of the first team squad.

Is Pep a better manager than Klopp? I suppose it all comes down to how you like your football. Do you prefer the high intensity so called "heavy metal' style favored by Klopp, or if you'd rather watch the more complex, refined version of the game advocated by Guardiola - I prefer the latter.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Unfancied Liverpool is an interesting take on it

From when he took over till now there are 3 players from Brendan Rodgers last squad still there, lallana, lovren and Henderson, so 1 first choice 11 really. Liverpool had just finished 6th. I think it's fair to say if Liverpool are fancied of late it's down to him

 

[CF3 Bear]

Guardiola gets his players playing some fantastic stuff of that there is no doubt. But his style gets exposed by a particular style of football time and time again and he doesn't appear to have any response to it.

When he was at Barca, Jupp Heinckes' Bayern team beat them 7-0 on aggregate and showed how the "gegenpress" system smashed through the tiki taka stuff.

Roles reversed and with guardiola at Bayern he got his arse handed to him by Barca the following season.

Then at city despite winning the league, Liverpool have tended to out play them in head to head matches. This year Liverpool found the consistency and city basically collapsed as their 1 competent defender laporte has been out injured.

 

[Danger Zone]

Guardiola gets his players playing some fantastic stuff of that there is no doubt. But his style gets exposed by a particular style of football time and time again and he doesn't appear to have any response to it.

When he was at Barca, Jupp Heinckes' Bayern team beat them 7-0 on aggregate and showed how the "gegenpress" system smashed through the tiki taka stuff.

Roles reversed and with guardiola at Bayern he got his arse handed to him by Barca the following season.

Then at city despite winning the league, Liverpool have tended to out play them in head to head matches. This year Liverpool found the consistency and city basically collapsed as their 1 competent defender laporte has been out injured.

Guardiola wasn’t the manager when Bayern humped them, that was Villanova. There’s some amount of fiction in this thread with regards to Guardiola. And for a guy who’s style is more exposed he seems to be better at hoovering up trophies than the rest. But apparently that’s because he took over the best sides in Europe, 2 of whom had finished 3rd and 4th in their leagues when he joined, respectively. Or because he just buys all the best players - like Sane, Jesus, Gudongen, Laporte, Ederson and all these other players that absolutely no one had down as some of the best players in the world prior to their arrival at City.

Meantime Klopp shops at Aldi and makes do with cheap run of the mill players like Salah, Van Dijk, Allison, Mane, Firmino and Keita.

 

[CF3 Bear]

Guardiola wasn’t the manager when Bayern humped them, that was Villanova. There’s some amount of fiction in this thread with regards to Guardiola. And for a guy who’s style is more exposed he seems to be better at hoovering up trophies than the rest. But apparently that’s because he took over the best sides in Europe, 2 of whom had finished 3rd and 4th in their leagues when he joined, respectively. Or because he just buys all the best players - like Sane, Jesus, Gudongen, Laporte, Ederson and all these other players that absolutely no one had down as some of the best players in the world prior to their arrival at City.

Meantime Klopp shops at Aldi and makes do with cheap run of the mill players like Salah, Van Dijk, Allison, Mane, Firmino and Keita.

Fair doos on the Villanova thing, I didn't realise that.

Not having the guardiola shopping at the same supermarket as Klopp though. He's bought a ridiculous amount of fullbacks at £50m plus for them. Just look at the net spend of the two managers to see who's more efficient in the transfer market

 

[BigBill32]

Klopp has turned Liverpool into the best in Europe. Man City are nowhere in comparison.... got to be Klopp.

 

[si72]

I,ll consider it if Klopp wins back to back titles.I very much doubt it.

 

[Bill Struth]

Klopp cause hes a proddy

 

[Stevethebluenose90]

Very good post,my mate goes to city games and said the exact same,if city had laporte fit and had a coulabaly or vvd beside him you are looking at a cracking team,looks like peps downfall has been not replacing kompany and laporte out injured,will be interesting to see how he rectifies this.

City have blown around £200 million on mediocre Full backs alone so it’s tough shit. People seem to forget how much money they have spent on players that have barely had a look in whereas pretty much every single player Klopp has bought has been right the one. Klopp hasn’t had the luxury of an unlimited transfer budget however he knew that from day one. I doubt Pep would have joined city with a transfer strategy like Liverpool’s.

 

[Ruglenbear1872]

There’s some absolute mince being talking about Guardiola on this thread. “Hasn’t has to build a team”, “doesn’t develop players”. Nonsense. He built that first Barcelona team and also took over a Man City team that had struggled the season before.

and with regards to him only taking over big clubs, there’s a reason for that - because he’s a great manager. Klopp isn’t exactly taking over a bunch of no-hopers

Klopp has also had the benefit of five years to get to this point. Guardiola would be under pressure without a league title after two (fair play to Liverpool here, perhaps some of our own support could learn something from this)

It’s fine to think Klopp is better, but at least base your opinion on fact rather than cliched nonsense

next season will be the real tester for Klopp. Can he keep those players at that level for a third year?

 

[Stevethebluenose90]

#	Net Spend last 5 Years	Purchased Gross	Sold	Nett	Per Season
1	Manchester City	£818.5 M	£312.9 M	£505.6 M	£101.1 M
2	Manchester United	£611.1 M	£232.2 M	£378.9 M	£75.8 M
4	Chelsea	£656.9 M	£523.6 M	£133.2 M	£26.6 M
3	Everton	£536.5 M	£261.5 M	£275.0 M	£55.0 M
5	Arsenal	£443.1 M	£194.2 M	£249.0 M	£49.8 M
6	Brighton & Hove Albion	£212.0 M	£14.6 M	£197.4 M	£39.5 M
7	Liverpool	£470.9 M	£378.5 M	£92.4 M	£18 M

 

[Stevethebluenose90]

Since 2015 - Klopp has bought 9 players for over £10 million.

Since 2016 - Pep Guardiola has bought 18 players for over £10 million costing which includes spending £300 million on defenders. All that money spent and they are still awful at the back so please don’t give me the “oh Laporte has been out injured“ nonsense.

Pep without his unlimited funds would not have been near as successful as he has been at City. Great manager but he will only stick around if it’s short term success whereas Klopp has always seen each job as a long term project.