City only conceded 23 goals in the league last year with Pool conceding 1 less. Losing Kompany and then Laporte will have an effect on any team so it's hardly nonsense.
The need for posters to downplay peps achievements at barca is hilarious.
Is Klopp a better manager than Pep?
- Thread starter easton78
- Start date
City only conceded 23 goals in the league last year with Pool conceding 1 less. Losing Kompany and then Laporte will have an effect on any team so it's hardly nonsense.
The need for posters to downplay peps achievements at barca is hilarious.
BlanturBlue
Active Member
I find klopp football better to watch but both great managers
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
But no other team have spent £300 million on bang average defenders have they? It’s there own downfall.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Net spend is one of the biggest myths going.
How is it Guardiola's fault that City let so many players they spent big money on run their contracts down and leave for zero or for pennies?
Pep has only signed 2 players in the last 3 transfer windows or so as well. He spent a bit when he first came in but it was to build a team for years to come and that's what has happened.
Bournemouth have spent about 70m on absolute shite from Liverpool in the last couple of years it's no wonder their net spend looks good.
No team in the world who spends 140m on a centre half and goalkeeper can plead poverty.
How is it Guardiola's fault that City let so many players they spent big money on run their contracts down and leave for zero or for pennies?
Pep has only signed 2 players in the last 3 transfer windows or so as well. He spent a bit when he first came in but it was to build a team for years to come and that's what has happened.
Bournemouth have spent about 70m on absolute shite from Liverpool in the last couple of years it's no wonder their net spend looks good.
No team in the world who spends 140m on a centre half and goalkeeper can plead poverty.
Point well made.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
Liverpool have spent £8 million since 2018 summer transfer window.
Man City signed 4 players last summer spending £145 million. It’s a bottomless pit of cash where the risk associated with each transfer is much less than other clubs.
Also I can’t remember Man City having to part with one of there best players in order for them to strengthen other parts of the team? If Coutinho doesn’t get sold then Van Dijk and Allison doesn’t happen so quickly.
El Mas Loco
Well-Known Member
“Pep” fan boys are worth the watching. Quite funny watching them defend him at all costs.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
I'm not interested in net spend. If we sell Alfie for 20m and bring a striker in on loan Gerrard will have won the league with zero net spend....when he's quadrupled our wage bill since coming in.
Klopp sold Coutinho and spent the money wisely. That's what good managers do.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
Liverpool’s wages have increased which are in line with Man City (due to dodgy accounting) but the money spent on transfers are nowhere near comparable.
Liverpool are a well run football club who’s every success seems deserved whereas it’s much more difficult to appreciate what City have done due to the ridiculous sums of money on players which will continue until the Owners piss off.
The Magnificent Bastard described their bench on Sky, in one of their last two matches, as the best bench he’s ever seen in football, such was the quality they had sitting out the match.
I’m not choosing one of the two managers. They’re both brilliant. If I had to choose one just on which one comes across as a nicer person, it’d be Klopp for me.
Again, though, lucky to have so many brilliant managers working in Britain right now.
Teuchterblue
Well-Known Member
The question is probably better answered in about 5 years time.
Jaws II
Well-Known Member
I know I prefer to watch Klopp’s style of football. Never been a big fan of either Italian or Spanish style of football. Always had a preference for the German style of being technically excellent but still having a more dynamic attacking style of play similar to the U.K. .
I also detest Man City and I have always preferred R Madrid to Barcelona. Infact the only time I didn’t enjoy watching Bayern was under Pep.
I also detest Man City and I have always preferred R Madrid to Barcelona. Infact the only time I didn’t enjoy watching Bayern was under Pep.
He bought Kyle Walker, John Stones, Laporte and Mendy and Danilo.
Sold Danilo and that above is their back 4. Which they couldn't play as the main man Laporte was injured for the majority of the season.
If Liverpool lost Van Dijk for that length of time I suspect things would be quite different.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
He also bought Cancelo for £60 million , Angelino for £10 million (which is more that Robertson) who haven’t got a look in. He bought stones for £50 million who lost his place to a midfielder and also have a £30 million defender in Otamendi.
They’ve spunked a lot of money on shite and got away with it because they are so good going forward and rarely lose the ball. It tells in Europe when the big teams slap them about every season.
Of course liverpool wouldn’t be the same without Van Dijk but considering City Spent £60 million on a full back that has never played that’s there fault that they don’t have adequate backup.
SDF
Well-Known Member
Man Utd have spent over £265m on their defence.
Harry Maguire at £80m is vastly more than any fee Pep has paid for a defender.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
Bobby Russell
Well-Known Member
Yes. Far better.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Man City Strongest 11 to win the title last season:
Ederson - 45m
Walker - 47.43m
LaPorte - 58.5m
Kompany - 7.65m
Zinchenko - 1.8m
Sterling - 57.33m
Fernandinho - 36m
KDB - 68.4m
D Silva - 25.88m
B Silva - 45m
Aguero - 38m
Total Cost Starting 11: 431m
Liverpool Strongest 11 to win the title last season:
Allison - 56.25m
Alexander-Arnold - Free
VVD - 76.19m
Matip - Free
Robertson - 8.1m
Fabinho - 40.5m
Henderson - 16.2m
Wjinaldum - 24.75m
Mane - 37.08m
Firmino - 36.9m
Salah - 37.8m
Total Cost Starting 11: 334m
All fees lifted directly from Transfermarkt. Difference in value between both regular starting 11s is 97m quid, which in the current transfer market, or certainly before Covid-19 kicked in, is 1 top class player/purchase of a difference between both sides.
Liverpool's regular bench also included guys like Keita and Ox-Chamberlain who cost the best part of 85m between them.
Lets nip this whole Klopp has spent no money myth in the bud eh?
Leave the net spend and balancing of the books argument to the Accountants.
baystatebear
Well-Known Member
In trying to determine who is the better manager it all comes down to a question of 'style'. Klopp and Guardiola are both excellent in their own way, but each represents a different philosophy, a different approach as to how football should be played.
Klopp's is a style that emphasizes pace and power, whereas Pep has become identified with an approach that gives precedence to the use of skillful, intricate passing to break down the opposition. At the end of the day it all comes down to how you like your football played. Personally, I'm a Pep fan.
BonessBear90
Well-Known Member
Pep changed the way football was played, for me I'd take pep at rangers over klopp. As good as klopp is, think pep is more consistent.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
Comparing first 11’s is fucking nonsense over a 38 league campaign. Mostly every single time the strongest squad wins the title not just the first 11. City squad has been assembled by spending the guts of £1 billion.
Nobody has said klopp hasnt spent money but to compare the 2 clubs transfer strategy is a joke to be honest.
Klopp has showed throughout his time at Liverpool he works with what he has and adds to it when the right signing becomes available. Man City just continue to sign players until they have the right ones.
Keita and Ox who have been pretty much injured for the last year or two and Klopp still didn’t dip into the market last summer and won’t do this year either.
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Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Who gives a shit about net spend? Klopp isn’t the one negotiating great deals for his players. Add to that a huge part of that net spend is offset but robbing Barca blind for Coutinho, a player Klopp didn’t sign and who was already doing the business prior to his arrival.
When you look at the the amount of fiction in the thread you can really see the similarities between Scouse cheerleaders and mentally challengeds, peas in a pod.
When you look at the the amount of fiction in the thread you can really see the similarities between Scouse cheerleaders and mentally challengeds, peas in a pod.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
Ah so teams shouldn’t be congratulated on getting good value for there players now either.
When Coutinho was sold he arguable was in the top 10 players in the world at the time. It was a bold move selling him at that stage of the season and it paid Dividends in the end but i don’t think I’ve ever seen Man City having to do that?
I stand by my original point, pep keeps laporte fit and signs a top class centre back to partner him, city will win the league next season, no doubt about it.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
If Man City spend big on another centre back of course they should win the league next year. They should win every single trophy again next year as there second team is stronger than 75% of the premier league maybe even more.
But it’s quite amusing that even though they have spent £1 billion on this current squad, people still think they need to Spend big to win the premier league.
Begbie's Moustache
Well-Known Member
Barcelona in 2008-9 were light years ahead of the team Guardiola inherited, and he was a first time manager trying to clear out an expensive legacy - he got lucky with players on the books but what he turned them into was incredible. Comparing his time back then to Bayern or City is a nonsense, let alone comparing to Klopp overall.
I suppose that's the beauty of having owners who are filthy rich,will be interesting to see who Newcastle buy as they are in the same boat now.,maybe they will go for klopp.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
They could easily be the next City.
Going to be some league next season, City, Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea all having a chance I’d say.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
It’s not down to Klopp though is it, he’s not pounding the gavel or sitting on the phone saying “nah you’ll need to give me more than that fellas”, and trying to big up a manager on the basis of a club’s net spend when you’ve taken in over €150m on one player whom he didn’t sign and whom was doing the business prior to his arrival, doesn’t make a great deal of sense.
I wouldn’t say it was particularly bold either, Liverpool were offered silly money for him, far more than he was worth at that time. Bold would have been letting him leave at a more modest price closer to his true value. And now you mention it, it’s strange that City don’t get those offers, you’d think if the tall tales of Guardiola only spunking fortunes on the world’s best players was true then he would be getting multiple big money offers for most of his squad.
Incidentally, the relative cost of the teams that was given above certainly doesn’t correlate with the sort of picture a lot of fantasists have been trying to paint on here. There’s not much in it at all going on today’s inflated market.
baystatebear
Well-Known Member
Attempts have been made to attribute Man City's success to the wealth of their owner, Sheikh Mansour. But there isn't necessarily a correlation between spending huge sums of money and being able to put a winning team on the field - just take look at Man U. The reason they've underperformed is not because they've spent too little, but because they've had a succession of failed managers.
Therefore, attributing Guardiola's success to his having access to a large transfer budget is facile argument.
Equally facile is the assertion that unlike Liverpool - as in the case of Coutinho - Man City don't receive big-money offers for their top players. The idea that elite teams wouldn't wish to sign a de Bruyne - perhaps the best player in the EPL - isn't because he is't good enough and wouldn't be coveted buy any top club, but rather because his transfer fee would likely be stratospheric, and knowing that City don't have to sell because of their financial position, they take a pass.
Therefore, attributing Guardiola's success to his having access to a large transfer budget is facile argument.
Equally facile is the assertion that unlike Liverpool - as in the case of Coutinho - Man City don't receive big-money offers for their top players. The idea that elite teams wouldn't wish to sign a de Bruyne - perhaps the best player in the EPL - isn't because he is't good enough and wouldn't be coveted buy any top club, but rather because his transfer fee would likely be stratospheric, and knowing that City don't have to sell because of their financial position, they take a pass.
IrvineLoyal
Well-Known Member
Who would people rather have in charge of Rangers.
Would be Klopp for me he seems to get the most out players and take them into the next level.
Both great managers but having access to world class players must make it that little bit easier.
Would be Klopp for me he seems to get the most out players and take them into the next level.
Both great managers but having access to world class players must make it that little bit easier.
He's certainly more likeable and have to say, he is creating a monster at Liverpool and I say that with the best of intentions.
ronnierangers
Active Member
klopp, far better, not even close. watch for the league next season, possibly more cups, best team in the world he built in 5 years, big difference than having a blank cheque from a oil dealer.
Klopp took over a team in freefall,sitting 10th in the league.Fraud took over city havin jst won the league .A massive difference in where the two teams were and where they are now.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
This is the same team that were European Champions only 2 seasons prior. And had been winning Titles in that period. BVB had not won anything for years until Klopp came along and knocked Bayern off their perch. Same as Liverpool.
Wazza
Well-Known Member
Really think next season is the big one. They know each other now. If one was to leave today Klopp would have won for me, think Guardiola will be the winner overall through - think he can do a League and CL double with City in same season but then again this ban could completely cock that up.
Forth Bear
Well-Known Member
City finished fourth the season before Pep took over and they finished third in his first season.
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
Bayern had won the league 2 of the previous 4 years, finishing 4th in one of those seasons, then finished 3rd the first year Dortmund won the league.
Lets not pretend Bayern were some sort of unstoppable force that needed to be "knocked off their perch" at the time.
Forza_Napoli
Well-Known Member
I could see pep at Juve or PSG in the next 5years klopp I can't see leaving liverpool anytime soon clearly loves it there unless they have an absolute disaster of a season he'll most likely never be sacked. I could see him as a future Germany manager in time though
prenzlauerbear
Well-Known Member
Referring to Pep Guardiola as "fraud" ffs. 
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
What changes has Klopp made that make him more than one dimensional?
He played 4-3-3 at Dortmund in 2010 and he's playing 4-3-3 at Liverpool in 2020.
Both are great managers from different traditions. It’s hard to separate their achievements in the game due to differences in their paths to the top
What both have been good at is taking the base elements of their traditions and evolving them to suit modern football.
I enjoy watching both teams even if I’m not overly keen on either club.
If I was a player at the top level I’d want to play under both at some point.
What both have been good at is taking the base elements of their traditions and evolving them to suit modern football.
I enjoy watching both teams even if I’m not overly keen on either club.
If I was a player at the top level I’d want to play under both at some point.
Loyaljock
Well-Known Member
You don't have to change formation to demonstrate change and adaptability. Yes, he's stuck with 4-3-3 but the way that 4-3-3 operates has changed quite dramatically. 18/19 it was possession based intensity (not too disimilar to Man City), 19/20 they move towards couter attacking at speed.
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
So really it's just small changes then?
Do you really think this City team play the same way Pep's 2008 Barca team did?
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 are almost the same formation.
My point is that if you're calling 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 a significant change then I'm not sure I'd agree with you.
Rick_Sanchez
Well-Known Member
Klopp has been more successful in England without doubt. Won a League and Champions League.
Guardiola’s time at City has been a success but probably only achieved the minimum expectation. He’s not won a Champions League and got dumped out by Spurs when they had their best ever chance.
Guardiola’s time at City has been a success but probably only achieved the minimum expectation. He’s not won a Champions League and got dumped out by Spurs when they had their best ever chance.
