Long term sustainable growth. Deal with it.

i couldn't give a fück about niar/tiar but a quadruple treble in our 4 seasons back is an utter embarrassment that is utterly indefensible.
 
Aww Skew said:
Of course they’re the ones who started all this but we’re now in a position where we have by far the second biggest budget in the league.

There gets a point that a line has to be drawn and fans stop looking backwards.

2012 is not the reason that we’ve dropped 10 points since returning from the winter break. Our squad shouldn’t be capitulating in the manner that it is, so let’s look at the causes of that rather than citing 7/8 years ago as an excuse
Click to expand...
We have the second biggest budget in the league and sit second in the league. What’s your point?

I’d rather we won the league, but that isn’t going to happen this year. We’ve made progress in the past 2 seasons. For thatGerrard deserves another season.
 
Inverhouse said:
So how long to we hang in sorry but it is blind faith so we give him say another 3 year a we still haven't won a trophy then what another 3 sorry but being 2nd isn't acceptable.
Click to expand...

We gave him a four year contract initially. It's been extended. I think we both know that if we end this season without anything then by xmas he could be gone, unless we're running riot in the first few months. It's not limitless and it's not blind faith. It's called trust and backing the guy in the job.

If we end this season with nothing and we're toiling at the start of next season I don't believe the board will have to sack him. SG will know himself.

What do you suggest? Sack him now? In the summer? And bring in who?? And tell them that - by the way - you absolutely have to stop Celtic winning 10IAR this season? And if they don't, do we get rid of them too?

We need some stability and we need to hold our nerve.
 
Today doesn’t excuse the lack of fight effort or desire to win against utter dross, we should be beating these teams comfortably it’s not acceptable I’m afraid we seem to be accepting mediocrity.
 
thetoptier said:
because the wage bill is 35M and we've spent 7M on one player

if you can't beat the likes of st johnstone with that budget you're a fucking failure that's why
Click to expand...
It was double that when we done niar and we still struggled,what did help though was Celtic were in a similar financial mess to us and if McCann hadn’t turned up we might have got 15 titles,we are not far away we need to get a grip because if we sack Gerard THEY WILL get 15.
 
dt17 said:
We were cheated out of the league cup a couple of months ago but people have forgotten that and use it as a stick to beat Gerrard with now.
Click to expand...

We couldn’t score the penalty and failed to breakdown 10 men in the last 30min.

Clutching at straws to suggest we were cheated, the decision was marginal. We had enough chances to bury them that day but poor finishing in the final 3rd cost us.

Our failure to score chances created is why we didn’t win the cup, not the linesman
 
There is definitely some truth in your post and I will credit your reasons for about half of the points we have lost. It still doesn’t explain the complete and utter collapse since the turn of the year. Even with some squad players on the pitch the right attitude and effort would have won more games
 
BlooBlood said:
We have the second biggest budget in the league and sit second in the league. What’s your point?

I’d rather we won the league, but that isn’t going to happen this year. We’ve made progress in the past 2 seasons. For thatGerrard deserves another season.
Click to expand...

The point is that people keep casting up 2012 as some form of counter argument to people who say we should be expecting better.

Our form since the winter break would’ve been enough to see Pedro sacked and he had a fraction of the budget Gerrard had
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...
Is that how guys like haliday are n the squad ffs
 
We are on track to finish further behind the tims than last season. That is the bottom line. Last season was about making sure we were at least second. This season was meant to be mounting a decent challenge. Saying that, they have actually improved this season which may have been unexpected.
 
SDF said:
Not sure if Celtic have downgraded massively in all honesty.

Manager maybe, but certainly not in the playing squad they haven't.
Click to expand...

Maybe, however the manager is key, they have went from a top Premiership manager to Lennon, massive downgrading.
 
Aww Skew said:
The point is that people keep casting up 2012 as some form of counter argument to people who say we should be expecting better.

Our form since the winter break would’ve been enough to see Pedro sacked and he had a fraction of the budget Gerrard had
Click to expand...
Let’s just forget about the progress will we? The European football doesn’t matter. Pedro would have been sacked for this so Gerrard should be too? Take your negativity to fu ck mate.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...
We can't expect to be brilliant all the time,we have made progress in Europe but we shouldn't be throwing away points from winning positions in this league.
 
david1872 said:
We're no further than we were last season.

As always, Europe is a bonus once we get to the groups.
Click to expand...
I’m sure we have more points in the league than this stage last season. I’m sure we have went further in Europe than we did last season. I’m also sure we were in a cup final where we were robbed.
maybe I’m just too much of an optimist!
 
We bought second place. £20m and second highest wage budget. He didn't out manage the rest of the league he out spent them.

Return for our money is minimal at best. Europe is the skin of the teeth he's surviving by.
 
Aww Skew said:
Of course they’re the ones who started all this but we’re now in a position where we have by far the second biggest budget in the league.

There gets a point that a line has to be drawn and fans stop looking backwards.

2012 is not the reason that we’ve dropped 10 points since returning from the winter break. Our squad shouldn’t be capitulating in the manner that it is, so let’s look at the causes of that rather than citing 7/8 years ago as an excuse
Click to expand...

We have the second biggest budget in the league and guess what, we’re second.

Makes sense really when you think about it, eh?
 
TimzRFudz said:
We gave him a four year contract initially. It's been extended. I think we both know that if we end this season without anything then by xmas he could be gone, unless we're running riot in the first few months. It's not limitless and it's not blind faith. It's called trust and backing the guy in the job.

If we end this season with nothing and we're toiling at the start of next season I don't believe the board will have to sack him. SG will know himself.

What do you suggest? Sack him now? In the summer? And bring in who?? And tell them that - by the way - you absolutely have to stop Celtic winning 10IAR this season? And if they don't, do we get rid of them too?

We need some stability and we need to hold our nerve.
Click to expand...
As far as I am concerned if he doesn't win the scottish cup then he should go as for who we bring in I honestly dont have a clue .
As for trust how can we trust a manager when we again have seen the team fall on its arse after the break nothing he is doing suggests next season will be any different.
As for baking I think he has had plenty from both the board and the fans .
Just my honest opinion but I think a more seasoned manager with a few quality players could stop 10 for the mentally challengeds I dont think Gerrard can if he is in charge next season it will still be the same formation that obviously doesn't work.
 
Howlin Wolf said:
Maybe, however the manager is key, they have went from a top Premiership manager to Lennon, massive downgrading.
Click to expand...

Lennon is sitting on 76 points right now.

Rodgers in his time here was 80, 64 and 66 after the same amount of games.

There's not that much of a drop off in levels of performance from Rodgers first season and it's miles better than his last 2.

If anything, the Tims are going for their opponents throat a helluva lot more under Lennon.
 
Whitelodge said:
I’m sure we have more points in the league than this stage last season. I’m sure we have went further in Europe than we did last season. I’m also sure we were in a cup final where we were robbed.
maybe I’m just too much of an optimist!
Click to expand...
Not sure three more wins in the league is really a measurable difference. More just circumstance going your way could explain that small a change. little luckier nothing more.

£10m plus increase in wage budget to be slightly better off is no return to sing about.
 
BlooBlood said:
Let’s just forget about the progress will we? The European football doesn’t matter. Pedro would have been sacked for this so Gerrard should be too? Take your negativity to fu ck mate.
Click to expand...

Negativity? It’s realism. I’ve supported Gerrard vigorously since he started and thought he was the right man for the job but he’s continuously making the same mistakes

Would I sack him right now? No. However, we need to see tangible changes from now until the end of the season; play players on merit, change the shape/tactics as it isn’t working and we need to see a difference in the mentality

I really hope I’m proven wrong and if I am I’ll be delighted. I was there today and I’ll be in Braga on Wednesday, then Tynecastle on Saturday. You’re such a better fan because you don’t want to criticise Gerrard
 
Punt13 said:
We have the second biggest budget in the league and guess what, we’re second.

Makes sense really when you think about it, eh?
Click to expand...

Yeah, and we’re dropping points from winning positions against teams with a fraction of our budget.

We accuse smaller teams of raising their game against us but it’s exactly what we do vs Celtic and in Europe.

Makes sense when you really think about it, eh?
 
Murray told us it was a 5 year plan when he appointed McLeish in 2001. We have been the 'skint' club ever since. Some trophies have helped along the way. When was the last time you got a rangers team who were capable of going on consistent runs, 2008 maybe, but we were so defensive. Been a tough decade. Don't see much changing soon. Could be worse I suppose and support Sunderland
 
It has been said elsewhere, but if people need reminding.

Steven Gerrard was given a new contract in December. It runs until summer 2024.

He is not leaving any time soon, unless someone comes in for him.
 
Inverhouse said:
As far as I am concerned if he doesn't win the scottish cup then he should go as for who we bring in I honestly dont have a clue .
As for trust how can we trust a manager when we again have seen the team fall on its arse after the break nothing he is doing suggests next season will be any different.
As for baking I think he has had plenty from both the board and the fans .
Just my honest opinion but I think a more seasoned manager with a few quality players could stop 10 for the mentally challengeds I dont think Gerrard can if he is in charge next season it will still be the same formation that obviously doesn't work.
Click to expand...

I agree the SC is hugely important.

The rest of it we'll just have to agree to disagree on mate. We get rid of Gerrard then we're also facing getting rid of most of the first XI too as they are the ones who are not delivering on the pitch. Where we find the £25M+ to do all that - again - and be in a better position to stop 10IAR, which is what seems to be the driver here - is utterly beyond me.

As it stands we have a respected, decent young manager whom we've built the current squad and off the pitch operation around. For him to bridge the gap with some ins and outs and a bit of hard thinking is - I would suggest - more plausible in terms of winning the league next season than starting from scratch again.
 
So
Inverhouse said:
As far as I am concerned if he doesn't win the scottish cup then he should go as for who we bring in I honestly dont have a clue .
As for trust how can we trust a manager when we again have seen the team fall on its arse after the break nothing he is doing suggests next season will be any different.
As for baking I think he has had plenty from both the board and the fans .
Just my honest opinion but I think a more seasoned manager with a few quality players could stop 10 for the mentally challengeds I dont think Gerrard can if he is in charge next season it will still be the same formation that obviously doesn't work.
Click to expand...

So we sack Gerrard and expect the next man to win the league in his first season. Aye I can see that happening ffs
 
Without serious investment there’s only so much Gerrard can do.

Yes the tactics at times shows that he is an inexperienced manager but we’ve got Andy Halliday as second choice left back here.
 
This kind of talk, as reasonable and realistic as it may be, does have a shelf life though, I’m afraid.

We could continue stumbling along until the season’s end, wind up 20 points behind the Yahoos and bowl out of the Europa League and Scottish Cup and Gerrard will still be here next season.

That’s just a fact, but if we’re in this point again in twelve months time with the Beasts en route to TIAR, the long term growth line is going to be down to the bare bones of its arse.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...
Most sensible post of the year
 
HandsomeHead said:
This kind of talk, as reasonable and realistic as it may be, does have a shelf life though, I’m afraid.

We could continue stumbling along until the season’s end, wind up 20 points behind the Yahoos and bowl out of the Europa League and Scottish Cup and Gerrard will still be here next season.

That’s just a fact, but if we’re in this point again in twelve months time with the Beasts en route to TIAR, the long term growth line is going to be down to the bare bones of its arse.
Click to expand...

At that point you’ll get fans saying “but the leagues done now, what’s the point in changing for the sake of it”.
 
We have lost the League past two seasons by not playing a full season.
This year is more annoying as we were in a stronger position by having it in our hands and blew it.
Well it looks like it.
EL has put Rangers back on the map especially overseas if we go through then more credit and money will add to putting Rangers back where we belong as far as Europe is concerned we nearly there
CL spot soon be available, gained mainly down to our mazy performances in Europe.
 
dudzo said:
When recruitment has been more hit than miss it just feels like shooting ourselves in foot.

we haven’t spent a coin on a midfielder in Gerrards time. Aribo we paid 350k for but he was shifted Into the front three.
Click to expand...

Your second point is really important and lost on many.

FWIW, whilst individual errors are costing us, I genuinely believe the midfield three - whichever combination it is - has by and large failed to perform week in week out since December. That puts pressure on the defence and it also means the front three have no platform to play off of. Many won't agree with me, but I still feel we could do with an absolute monster in there to take no prisoners, destroy things coming at us and to release it forwards with no fuss. Pragmatism over style at times....
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...

You stop talking so much sense now. You will be slaughtered on here for that.
 
It’s because Rangers are a club so used to winning trophies every season. The expectation is put on the players/management staff to stop them. If we sack Gerrard right now there’s absolutely no chance of us winning the league for a while and that could be not in the next three seasons.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...
There is that train of thought or another one which is we have thrown more than we have at it and ended up with Kent and Helander for £10m without getting close to it.

The europa is hiding over cracks, we are sitting in February and out of the league race.
 
TimzRFudz said:
I agree the SC is hugely important.

The rest of it we'll just have to agree to disagree on mate. We get rid of Gerrard then we're also facing getting rid of most of the first XI too as they are the ones who are not delivering on the pitch. Where we find the £25M+ to do all that - again - and be in a better position to stop 10IAR, which is what seems to be the driver here - is utterly beyond me.

As it stands we have a respected, decent young manager whom we've built the current squad and off the pitch operation around. For him to bridge the gap with some ins and outs and a bit of hard thinking is - I would suggest - more plausible in terms of winning the league next season than starting from scratch again.
Click to expand...
Can you honestly say he is learning from his mistakes for some reason he is persisting with the same formation I honestly wish I could see it was going to get better under SG but I cant.I honestly think going with him next season could be disastrous for the club but that's just my opinion and we are all entitled to one.
 
SDF said:
Lennon is sitting on 76 points right now.

Rodgers in his time here was 80, 64 and 66 after the same amount of games.

There's not that much of a drop off in levels of performance from Rodgers first season and it's miles better than his last 2.

If anything, the Tims are going for their opponents throat a helluva lot more under Lennon.
Click to expand...

Lennon looks and acts like a Ned but under him, he is the scums equivalent of Walter.
He wins things and he also has his team playing far better in Europe than Rodgers ever did.
We vastly over rate our own team and manager and under rate their players and manager.
Two months ago Mearns Unionist posted on here how we had better players and a squad than them and we would move on after beating them.
Our team seems to have this attitude also as does the manager and board.

We give people new contracts far too quickly from players to management to the board despite no success.
 
I
SDF said:
Lennon is sitting on 76 points right now.

Rodgers in his time here was 80, 64 and 66 after the same amount of games.

There's not that much of a drop off in levels of performance from Rodgers first season and it's miles better than his last 2.

If anything, the Tims are going for their opponents throat a helluva lot more under Lennon.
Click to expand...
would have guessed Rodgers would be beating him every season, there is a very good chance they win the league by more than they did last year which is what progress should be based on
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of what you say. However:

- Their titles aren’t tainted in their eyes, nor the rest of the football community.
- Forget about stopping 9 and 10 - what’s to say we’re going to be any better a competitor for 11? Or 12? The trend won’t buck if something doesn’t change.
- Gerrard isn’t irreplaceable.
- Getting as far in the Europa league as possible has to be our number 1 priority now. Not the SC. We need as much money as possible for top players in summer, and for rainy day preparations...
 
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