Mark Allen - Officially gone

ibrox1975 said:
The Director of football position is a critical one in my eyes.
Get that appointment right and we’ll be signing the best players available.
We need to sign better players than Celtc in order to win the league
Success in the league is 100% related to this
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That's pretty much going to come down to money and they continue to heavily outspend us.

I'm not sure short term we catch them that way-we probably don't need to be better man for man-we need to turn the title into a game of nerves by being much further ahead of third place-that will put serious pressure on them.....whether we have that or not should be clear in a couple of months.
 
DylanGer said:
I think you are missing the crucial point here. If we appointed a DOF then surely the transfer policy and process is a given? Surely that is the core of your football strategy and managers come in and buy into that as part of the job? So when we appointed a DOF was it the plan that a manager should arrive with a real network of contacts and have say 50% of the input of the transfers? So to put it another way do you think SG was running it by Mark Allen to agree on the players he had targeted personally and wanted in?

Right there you don't have a strategy. Right there you have a conflict and my understanding of what I've been told by three different sources is that it was fudged from day one and that SG was accepting players he really wasn't sure about one way or another but it was how it was set up.

It would strike me fundamentally the roles weren't defined and the idea of a committee approach was doomed to fail.

You can be certain after this SG will not be accepting the same process/strategy whatever it was as it didn't work.

I'm saying how the DOF interacted and who was responsible for what when it came to transfers was either not thought out or SG was too strong a character with probably as many good contacts as MA to make it work.
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The policy is a given, of course. The implementation of the policy successfully is entirely down to the vagaries of that wee thing called humanity.

Are you so naive to think that if someone creates a plan, a strategy, it is irrelevant who he uses to implement it? Really? Anyone can do anything successfully so long as they have a plan from above? Wow. So it is not possible that Allen just did not meet the targets he was set, it HAS to be that the targets he was set and the strategy to reach them were at fault?


As I keep saying, you are making this fit the way you want it to fit. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
DylanGer said:
I think when people try to make a case for Mark Allen's success in the transfer market and they throw up Kamara, Arfield and McGregor I find it hard to believe but then again you are passing off the inability of BB to look like a Rangers player being down to SG's coaching.....

If we take Grezda as an example of a bad signing 100% SG has to take a fair share of the blame.....it is remarkable to think they sat round a table and decided bringing this guy in injured at that fee made sense.

Mark Allen would need to have been a real turkey not to have done anything good and I'm sure he did some good stuff but in overall terms?

You are right about SG he is now 100% our football strategy and in my opinion the people above him should have said (unpopular as it might be) that 7M for Kent is too much and cripples our ability to spend in January.....unless of course there's a pot of money coming.
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Not coaching so much as tactics. BB is a threat when he is running on to a ball and crossing at pace. We saw it against us and we saw it in his initial appearances for us. But far too often when Borna does play he has someone either standing where he wants to go and/or not playing into space when he does make a run.

I’m speculating (but not too wildly) that there would be internal politics about sign off and responsibility for certain transfers. That probably could never work long term with two egos like MA and SG - and ultimately SG picks the team and signings live or die in that context. Again it’s speculation but this could lead to SG not being challenged to get the best out of BB (which we know is there) when he can turn around and say “he’s not one of mine, he’s a softie” etc. SG needs to prove himself in that regard first before we give him full control.

My point though is while I’m cool with SG being the king in time, i hope there is sufficient challenge in the system and we are not closed off now to value markets in favour of SG’s English contacts.

Right now I’ve got as many questions about Ojo and Flanagan as I do about Borna and Jordan Jones - more actually (and I think all four are worth their place in the squad before anyone starts)
 
Hobjo said:
Not coaching so much as tactics. BB is a threat when he is running on to a ball and crossing at pace. We saw it against us and we saw it in his initial appearances for us. But far too often when Borna does play he has someone either standing where he wants to go and/or not playing into space when he does make a run.
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This is what I’d like to know. Does Borna not say this to Gerrard? He’s being played wrongly or ineffectively. But getting stick for his performances.

Does he not knock on Gerard’s door and say look, you bought me because you liked A B and C but you’re playing a formation that doesn’t let me play to my abilities.
 
Ünnëcëssärÿ Ümläüts said:
This is what I’d like to know. Does Borna not say this to Gerrard? He’s being played wrongly or ineffectively. But getting stick for his performances.

Does he not knock on Gerard’s door and say look, you bought me because you liked A B and C but you’re playing a formation that doesn’t let me play to my abilities.
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We’ll never know but what I do know is I love and applaud your username
 
SDF said:
Stories last night that the board were less than impressed with his inability to get rid of the deadwood and we were yet again forced into multiple payoffs.

Especially given that Allen promised them he would.
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This is partly it, he failed to get shot but he's also a bit of a difficult character and some at the top couldn't control him.

Some within will be glad to see him gone but also questions need asked about those above who couldn't handle him.

So I hear anyway
 
DylanGer said:
It's a failure in strategy and transparency.

We are still no clearer to what it is exactly he did. The fact is SG clearly had a much bigger impact in finding players and indeed all of the Scottish recruits FF could have found them themselves.

The very fact you are stating in terms of squad size and quality has issues it's not exactly a fantastic endorsement of the role is it?

If we replace him then yes we can say the strategy has been consistent otherwise it's clear we've been making it up as we went along.

A few posters said we didn't need a DOF and it would look like they were right. For seasons we've been asking how exactly he interfaces with the manager-it seems to have been done as a committee and as I said all the evidence I've heard personally or read on here suggests it didn't work.

Of course every club makes mistakes but the appointment of Pedro and then Allen should really be making the support ask how many really bad decisions have been made and no one is accountable.

Facts are thin on the ground in football it is driven by results and opinion that's what keeps debating vibrant and this board alive. Some people are still arguing Pedro wasn't that bad.

The support in general just trust the Board when they should have been asking serious questions about the strategy and indeed the PR of how the club is perceived. They'll get away with it as long as there is hope and belief in terms of genuine success that is clearly near the end of opportunities and what happens this season is crucial for the club.
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Nobody on FF identified Aribo or Helander.
 
Paisleyprod said:
This is partly it, he failed to get shot but he's also a bit of a difficult character and some at the top couldn't control him.

Some within will be glad to see him gone but also questions need asked about those above who couldn't handle him.

So I hear anyway
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There’s been rumours right from the start about his being ‘difficult’.

Over the piece I don’t think his track record has been particularly impressive, but that can also be said of the individual immediately above him.
 
He wasn’t just at Rangers to identify players he has overhauled our scouting and youth system , to my mind the latter two has been a success player recruitment has been overall fine getting rid not so good. Certain posters are focusing on their personal bugbears and trying to make out either Allen or the club has failed when it’s patently not true.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
The policy is a given, of course. The implementation of the policy successfully is entirely down to the vagaries of that wee thing called humanity.

Are you so naive to think that if someone creates a plan, a strategy, it is irrelevant who he uses to implement it? Really? Anyone can do anything successfully so long as they have a plan from above? Wow. So it is not possible that Allen just did not meet the targets he was set, it HAS to be that the targets he was set and the strategy to reach them were at fault?


As I keep saying, you are making this fit the way you want it to fit. Nothing more and nothing less.
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It's what drives success the ability to stick to a process. Of course it can fail for a variety of reasons.

But of course you choose to believe it failed in a certain way because it might disprove my argument-it's not really about me though it's about how successful the DOF was and how that worked with SG and if he will be replaced etc etc. It's about how well we've maximised our transfer policy under the DOF and the manager. It's about how the Board have approached us winning back the title.
 
Sandbear said:
He wasn’t just at Rangers to identify players he has overhauled our scouting and youth system , to my mind the latter two has been a success player recruitment has been overall fine getting rid not so good. Certain posters are focusing on their personal bugbears and trying to make out either Allen or the club has failed when it’s patently not true.
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How do we measure success then?

If we have an indifferent season what do you think will happen?
 
DylanGer said:
But mate the plan went from Warburton to Pedro to Allen and now to no Allen.

Forget the semantics of strategy and planning-it doesn't look joined up and I would say it doesn't look joined up in terms of transfers either.
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I broadly agree, but again, it's when plan has to be implemented that the problems begin.
Pedro was proven to be a mistake but if we're then constrained by our strategy to only the safest choices we'd have made McInnes the proverbial offer he couldn't refuse and ........ well, phuk that.

My own, totally uninformed, theory goes like is.
The DoF was the right idea to prevent directors interfering too much on the football side. A plus.
MA then championed and helped recruit Gerrard. Another, and a huge, plus.
Gerrard, at Rangers, is effectively 'too big' for MA, as DoF he couldn't perform at the new norm, so he's gone. Another plus.
By allowing? MA to go the board have shown they are all-in with Gerrard and I share that approach. Can you name someone who could have had the effect across the club that he has? So, another plus
So, from a planning review perspective it may not look joined up but, IMHO, it's correct. You wouldn't want the board to do the 'wrong' thing because that's what the strategy requires.
The issues will come when this manager decides to leave. Now, that we absolutely cannot leave to serendipity,
 
Commentator said:
I broadly agree, but again, it's when plan has to be implemented that the problems begin.
Pedro was proven to be a mistake but if we're then constrained by our strategy to only the safest choices we'd have made McInnes the proverbial offer he couldn't refuse and ........ well, phuk that.

My own, totally uninformed, theory goes like is.
The DoF was the right idea to prevent directors interfering too much on the football side. A plus.
MA then championed and helped recruit Gerrard. Another, and a huge, plus.
Gerrard, at Rangers, is effectively 'too big' for MA, as DoF he couldn't perform at the new norm, so he's gone. Another plus.
By allowing? MA to go the board have shown they are all-in with Gerrard and I share that approach. Can you name someone who could have had the effect across the club that he has? So, another plus
So, from a planning review perspective it may not look joined up but, IMHO, it's correct. You wouldn't want the board to do the 'wrong' thing because that's what the strategy requires.
The issues will come when this manager decides to leave. Now, that we absolutely cannot leave to serendipity,
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I can agree broadly with that but disagree on SG's level of control over his career-if he wins the title then yes I agree and whilst I'm not saying that if he doesn't win the title he can't go on to have a managerial career....he may do well to survive the Rangers job-if we don't win the title the fall out will be massive and if we lose it how we lose it will have a major effect on whether the support will demand a new manager or not. We are sitting on a knife edge this season is going to deliver unbelievable pressure.
 
Sandbear said:
He wasn’t just at Rangers to identify players he has overhauled our scouting and youth system , to my mind the latter two has been a success player recruitment has been overall fine getting rid not so good. Certain posters are focusing on their personal bugbears and trying to make out either Allen or the club has failed when it’s patently not true.
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Correct.

People here are getting 'Director of Football' confused with 'Head Scout.'
 
Well it's certainly got the chin strokers going that's for sure.

I'm sure like every other position in the football department, we'll have replacements earmarked and lined up, so it needn't be a big deal at all.

Good luck to him.
 
Sad, as he was doing a great job. Based on the press release it would appear he left on good terms. It is a compliment to our status that he is been linked to Man U. We can expect more English clubs poaching our best employees.
 
sw26 said:
You want Leeann Dempster signing players for Rangers? Really?

She’s an executive who deals mainly with the business and operational side.
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Lots of Chief Execs do the player signing at clubs, some huge clubs too, and she would have the Management and Scouting teams recommendations, the actual business side she would be have been doing for years.
 
Bowery Boy said:
It probably will be but I wouldn't rule anyone out based on nationality. It's not like he's not familiar with Rangers and European football.
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Leave the big apple and usa to come to live in say bearsden.
Get verbal at every corner from the tims and some of our fans if not going well.
Cant see it myself.
 
SDF said:
Stories last night that the board were less than impressed with his inability to get rid of the deadwood and we were yet again forced into multiple payoffs.

Especially given that Allen promised them he would.
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that might well be the case but the board sanctioned some horror show signings. it's a bit like getting annoyed Allen couldn't shift Herrera. however you come back to the fact that they sanctioned the 20k + a week signing.
 
Allen going and contract dealings at least taken away from Robertson could be creating a nice role for Dempster?
 
The Huguenot said:
Sad, as he was doing a great job. Based on the press release it would appear he left on good terms. It is a compliment to our status that he is been linked to Man U. We can expect more English clubs poaching our best employees.
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Was he though?

There are rumours the board weren’t happy with his performance - the glowing press release doesn’t tell us much in all honesty - just as there have been persistent rumours right from the start that he’s a difficult character.

If I was to take a guess, and this isn’t based on anything other than my gut feeling, Gerrard was too big a personality for Mark Allen and there have been clashes between the two with regards to how we’re implementing strategy.

Which isn’t to say there’s been any big rammies, more a difference of opinion that happens at all big organisations at upper management and executive level.

I suspect we may now look for someone Gerrard knows to fill the position and I think we’ll be all the better for it.
 
Gerrard seemed pretty happy with our recruitment - they were the first to get a mention after we qualified for the EL in his RTV youtube post match video.
 
Clicker said:
Wonder if any of the gutter tabloids have us “in disarray” over this.
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The sun is focusing on ‘tensions’ between the board and Mark Allen because he was unable to move on deadwood players. tomorrow the article will probably move on to liquidation rumours and that’s why he left.
 
DylanGer said:
That's pretty much going to come down to money and they continue to heavily outspend us.

I'm not sure short term we catch them that way-we probably don't need to be better man for man-we need to turn the title into a game of nerves by being much further ahead of third place-that will put serious pressure on them.....whether we have that or not should be clear in a couple of months.
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The right appointment in the DOF role and it isn’t about money. It is about spending what you have wisely.

They bought Julian for £7m we bought Hellander fir £3.5m. If Hellander is a better player we narrow the gap for half the price.

This role is crucial in our development. Absolutely crucial. We need a really good appointment here.
 
Commentator said:
Do you want the board to overrule the football guys employed to make football decisions or not?
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what do you mean? if Allen's remit was to get rid of Pedro's duds and other shite players on high wages signed before his time then they should also share the blame. Dorrans, Pena & Herrera on reportedly 20k+ a week? The board also sanctioned Pedro in the first place - they can't exactly sack themselves however they wasted £10-15m pounds of their own (the club's) money. Not to mention wasting a whole season of fan's time + utter PR embarrassment with such a ridiculous appointment.
 
DylanGer said:
It's what drives success the ability to stick to a process. Of course it can fail for a variety of reasons.

But of course you choose to believe it failed in a certain way because it might disprove my argument-it's not really about me though it's about how successful the DOF was and how that worked with SG and if he will be replaced etc etc. It's about how well we've maximised our transfer policy under the DOF and the manager. It's about how the Board have approached us winning back the title.
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How is Allen leaving Rangers not sticking to a process? If Tesco fire a store manager, does it necessarily follow that he was fired because the plan to implement the over-all strategy was wrong? Of course not. It is FAR more likely to indicate that the store manager was failing to deliver the plan correctly.

I am not saying it succeeded or failed at all. I have specifically said on numerous occasions that I simply do not have the information to make that call. YOU are saying that Allen going is a vindication of your entrenched position. It is so obviously not a vindication that it really should not have to be pointed out at all.

I am not choosing to believe it failed in a certain way at all, that is a simple lie. I am very deliberately NOT choosing to believe it failed in a certain way. I am not choosing to believe it failed in any way at all. I am stating the bloody obvious by saying that the lack of information you bemoan means you are not even close to being in a position to declare the whole thing a failure and that Allen going for any number of reasons, such as being asked to leave or landing a job with another club are FAR more likely than the board just ripping up the whole process. You are too blinded by what you WANT to be the truth that you are tying yourself in knots trying to make all the pieces fit and you are missing the most obvious answer.
 
We need a DOF to ensure that there will be some continuity after Gerrard. We can’t forget that whilst it’s great to have Beale et al in the coaching team, it is a huge risk, because they are all more loyal to Gerrard than the club. We can’t have a mass exodus with no plan as to how to replace each of those individuals.
 
Singapore Sling said:
Strange time to depart, so clearly something has gone on, despite the statement.
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Is it though? There’s no ‘good’ time to go but I guess shortly after the transfer window closes is as good as it gets, when you have a Manager 15 months into his tenure and looking secure.

Announcing it late on a Friday evening is a bit bizarre right enough. Though the Club’s statement suggests they had been preparing it for release for some time before then.
 
supersonic said:
what do you mean? if Allen's remit was to get rid of Pedro's duds and other shite players on high wages signed before his time then they should also share the blame. Dorrans, Pena & Herrera on reportedly 20k+ a week? The board also sanctioned Pedro in the first place - they can't exactly sack themselves however they wasted £10-15m pounds of their own (the club's) money. Not to mention wasting a whole season of fan's time + utter PR embarrassment with such a ridiculous appointment.
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You criticised the board for 'sanctioning some horror show signings'. Do you or do you not want them to overrule a recommendation from the football management regarding a player?
Your post above is just hot air, letting off steam and ultimately pointless given that we need men prepared to put funds into the club. They've made an arse of some things, no argument, but backing those responsible for football decisions is not one of them.
 
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