Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
Embarrassing yourself again I see.
Messi
- Thread starter Ruben Sosa
- Start date
Embarrassing yourself again I see.
scottishcampbell
Well-Known Member
Can't be arsed looking but who has won more major trophies between them?
Gheorghe_Hagi
Well-Known Member
As I've said before, claiming that Maradona is anywhere near better than Messi is the reserve of old codgers desperate to believe that football was better "back in my day".
No players in football history have hit the standards that Messi and Ronaldo have as consistently as they have - we're talking a decade of two players being comfortably the two best players in the world at a time when football is more technical, tactical and requires more fitness and athleticism than ever before. Even a "poor" season for these two produces upwards of 40 goals in one of the world's elite leagues.
Dismissing their achievements because they haven't won a World Cup which just doesn't seem to have the prestige it once did is laughable.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of the ones expressed in this thread are frightening.
No players in football history have hit the standards that Messi and Ronaldo have as consistently as they have - we're talking a decade of two players being comfortably the two best players in the world at a time when football is more technical, tactical and requires more fitness and athleticism than ever before. Even a "poor" season for these two produces upwards of 40 goals in one of the world's elite leagues.
Dismissing their achievements because they haven't won a World Cup which just doesn't seem to have the prestige it once did is laughable.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of the ones expressed in this thread are frightening.
Kaiserweiss
Well-Known Member
I think football can’t be compared now due to the rule changes, the science available and the sheer technology behind it now.
Aragorn
Well-Known Member
Messileftfoot
New Member
messi is by far the most technically gifted player of the last 30 years.
ronaldo is a machine who is very clinical.
i though ronaldo's speed, intensity and physical aspects would slow down as he got older but he has maintained the highest standards possible. however there will come a point where overnight it will change. it happened to Zidane, Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldinho.......players at their peak and world class can seem to havee a drastic drop in consistancy and physical traits like strength, speed reflexes and reactions start to suffer, technical traits always remain and i think thats why messi will outlast ronaldo in relation to consistancy at the highest level as his game is built around technical apects (passing, dribbling, finnesse finishing, low centre of gravity movement)
just my two tupence worth.
ronaldo is a machine who is very clinical.
i though ronaldo's speed, intensity and physical aspects would slow down as he got older but he has maintained the highest standards possible. however there will come a point where overnight it will change. it happened to Zidane, Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldinho.......players at their peak and world class can seem to havee a drastic drop in consistancy and physical traits like strength, speed reflexes and reactions start to suffer, technical traits always remain and i think thats why messi will outlast ronaldo in relation to consistancy at the highest level as his game is built around technical apects (passing, dribbling, finnesse finishing, low centre of gravity movement)
just my two tupence worth.
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
I think a lot of people also seem to forget that Messi is 3 years younger than Ronaldo.
Their stats are very similar at the moment but unless Messi retires young or Ronaldo plays until he's much older, Messi will always have time to completely overtake him.
Messi's peak (arguably) when he scored 91 goals in the calendar year will never be topped unless they drastically increase the number of games played throughout the year.
Everyone was going on about how brilliant Salah's season has been yet for Messi and Ronaldo it's just their typical season.
Their stats are very similar at the moment but unless Messi retires young or Ronaldo plays until he's much older, Messi will always have time to completely overtake him.
Messi's peak (arguably) when he scored 91 goals in the calendar year will never be topped unless they drastically increase the number of games played throughout the year.
Everyone was going on about how brilliant Salah's season has been yet for Messi and Ronaldo it's just their typical season.
Ronaldo is a machine and will be around for a long time yet. I hope they both are.
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
Horrible to say but one or the other is probably due an injury.
They both play some amount of matches.
BlueBritain
Well-Known Member
Closer to 2 years younger.
It's Messi's 31st birthday tomorrow. Is he wishing to get to the next round or to get away from Russia on the next flight home??
The body language doesn't look good from him.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
I hope you’ll be as magnanimous in thirty years time when some new kid is strutting around the global stage to swoons of adulation from all and sundry.
Gheorghe_Hagi
Well-Known Member
Blues and Royals
Well-Known Member
Nobody can deny what Messi has achieved at Barcelona but he has never matched Maradona’s brilliance on the international stage.
Hamburg
Active Member
Messi hasn't scored for Argentina for over 600 minutes. Ronaldo scores, whoever he plays for.
Ronaldo is the best player I've ever seen and I'm 68 and have been a football fan all my life.
Maradonna, Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Best, Pele were all wonderful footballers, but Christiano Ronaldo shades it for me.
I don't like how he acts sometimes on the park, but his sheer brilliance makes up for that.
Ronaldo is the best player I've ever seen and I'm 68 and have been a football fan all my life.
Maradonna, Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Best, Pele were all wonderful footballers, but Christiano Ronaldo shades it for me.
I don't like how he acts sometimes on the park, but his sheer brilliance makes up for that.
omegaman
Well-Known Member
Serious question: is it his sheer brilliance at scoring goals that does it for you?
I could understand the swooning over Ronaldo if he also selflessly set up team mates with incredible assists - skinned defenders to whip in lethal crosses (which to be fair he used to do in his Man U days), dropped back into midfield to spray 40 yard cross field passes to feet, dribbled past 2, 3, 4 players to slip in sublime through balls for team mates and all the rest of it, but he doesn’t really do any of that, not really - he’s just this incredible goal scoring machine, which is quite a thing in itself, but as someone who’s old enough to have witnessed the all round brilliance of guys like Pele, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane, etc, I find it a little baffling that you or anyone for that matter would argue that Ronaldo is a more complete footballer, because sorry, he’s just not.
Hamburg
Active Member
Well, I think he is.
Baldrick
Well-Known Member
Well that's bollocks, he scored a couple in a warm up game for the World Cup and in his last competitive game before the World Cup for Argentina he scored a hat-trick in Ecuador where the Argies hadn't won in 20 years or something to ensure they qualified.
Messi is a better dribbler and passer and when it comes to goal scoring over his career it's a very similar ratio to Ronaldo's plus the fact he creates more chances.
Messi playing poorly in a Poor Argentina side does not alter the fact that for me Messi has been the better player over the course of his career.
Messi dragged an average Argentina side to a World Cup Final and for the sake of a few inches means he can't be considered a great because he never won it? That's harsh.
Btw I also consider Ronaldo an all time great. More of in a Gerd Muller way than a Maradona.
Dr. Strangelove
Well-Known Member
It's like arguing that Ronaldo and Messi are obviously better because Pele and Maradona never won European Cups. I wouldn't really make that my only argument in the way that people are with Pele and Maradona having won the World Cup. It's just open to so many counter arguments but the rigidity of the people who think they need to win a World Cup to overtake the rest is just bizarre.
Gheorghe_Hagi
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I mean think how taxing it must be to win the Champions League while also competing simultaneously in your league and Cup competitions. You have to go back 5 years to when Messi or Ronaldo didn't win the Champions League!
gersfan52
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even say he's the best Portuguese player, I'd give that honour to the great Eusebio.
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi: In bigger games on the world stage, the Real Madrid and Portugal superstar is now showing himself to be superior
PUBLISHED: 07:32, 23 June 2018 | UPDATED: 16:07, 23 June 2018
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In the quarter-finals of the 2017 Champions League, Cristiano Ronaldo scored five times against Bayern Munich over two legs. In the semis, he scored a hat-trick against Atletico Madrid.
So when Real Madrid won the final against Juventus in Cardiff, it came as little surprise that it was orchestrated by Ronaldo. He bagged a brace, deciding yet another game.
Ronaldo is a man for the big occasion. At the 2018 World Cup in Russia, he has continued to show that mentality, leading to those inevitable comparisons with Lionel Messi.
+6
Cristiano Ronaldo has shown at the World Cup his appetite to star on the biggest stage of all
+6
Meanwhile his rival, Lionel Messi, carrying the weight of a nation, has failed to find the net
RELATED ARTICLES
Share
663 shares
Atletico Madrid manager Diego Simeone accidentally contributed to the debate this week when a WhatsApp audio message to his assistant German Burgos was leaked in Spain.
In it, Simeone said: 'Messi is very good but he is very good because he is accompanied by extraordinary footballers. If you had to choose between Messi and Ronaldo for a normal team, who would you choose?'
In terms of who you would rather have in your side when it comes to the big games — the 90 minutes where it really matters — then the majority may side with Ronaldo.
A look at their Champions League records tells us how much of an influence he has. In the group stages, both have bagged 60 goals, though the Barcelona man has managed it in 15 games fewer.
Yet as the competition progresses, Ronaldo takes over. In the quarter-finals, he has scored 23 goals in 20 games. Messi has scored 10 in 20.
+6
An analysis of their Champions League records shows Ronaldo excels later in the tournament
+6
Messi has scored more goals in the group stages, but fewer in the quarter and semi-finals
In the semis, Ronaldo has scored 13 compared to Messi's four. In the final, it's four to two.
Once the heat is on, Ronaldo steps up, just as he has in Russia.
Every football fan will have his or her own preference. But with both Ronaldo and Messi carrying the expectations of entire nations on their shoulders, one has delivered, the other has not.
For Portugal, 33-year-old Ronaldo has decided two games – securing a draw with a hat-trick against Spain, and scoring the winner against Morocco. Iran are next on Monday.
Messi, meanwhile, has cut a frustrated figure at this World Cup. Having a country turning to him for inspiration appears to have weighed him down.
LIONEL MESSI
Champions League Group Stage
63 games, 60 goals
Round of 16
26 games, 24 goals
Quarter-finals
20 games, 10 goals
Semi-finals
13 games, 4 goals
Final
3 games, 2 goals
CRISTIANO RONALDO
Champions League Group Stage
78 games, 60 goals
Round of 16
28 games, 20 goals
Quarter-finals
20 games, 23 goals
Semi-finals
21 games, 13 goals
Final
6 games, 4 goals
In Argentina's 1-1 draw with Iceland, he missed a penalty to turn one point into three. In their 3-0 defeat by Croatia on Thursday, he failed to join the party again.
Messi was the bookmakers' favourite to win the World Cup's Golden Boot at the start of the tournament. So far, it is four goals for the Portuguese, and zilch for the Argentinian.
As well as Simeone, a fair few others in the world of pundits have given their two cents' worth on the debate over who is better. As it turns out, so has Ronaldo.
Well, arguably. In celebrating his opener against Spain, he stroked his chin, seemingly signalling that he is the GOAT – the Greatest Of All Time. In recent days, the normally clean-shaven Ronaldo has grown a goatee, though he claims the beard is a good luck charm following a conversation with team-mate Ricardo Quaresma.
+6
Ronaldo has inspired Portugal to four points from two matches, scoring all four of their goals
+6
The debate remains open to interpretation but many pundits think Ronaldo is the better player
In truth, it is open to interpretation. Plenty prefer Messi's unique talents, which he seems to have been born with. Others like the way Ronaldo has worked so hard to get so good.
Roy Keane, arguably biased, offered his opinion this week when he said: 'I think there has been a great debate about him and Messi but over the last six months I think he's on a new level.
'Ronaldo's out there on his own. It's not natural ability, as brilliant as he is, it's sheer hard work. He's got a lot of courage, he's brave and the guy is a genius.'
Ian Wright added: 'We've been fortunate to watch both at the height of their powers, but in years to come I think Ronaldo will pinch it for me.'
The Ronaldo vs Messi debate will rumble on until one or both retires, and no-one is wrong. It can come down to a matter of personal preference.
Yet as Simeone said, if you surrounded both with 10 players of typical professional quality, who would you back to do the better job? Messi has had his moments but judging by what we've seen recently, that man is now Ronaldo.
RELATED ARTICLES
- The Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi debate has continued at the World Cup
- Ronaldo has hit four goals in two games for Portugal while Messi has zero so far
- A look at their Champions League records says Ronaldo steps up when needed
- The Portuguese has the better record in quarter-finals, semis and finals
PUBLISHED: 07:32, 23 June 2018 | UPDATED: 16:07, 23 June 2018
- e-mail
240
View comments
In the quarter-finals of the 2017 Champions League, Cristiano Ronaldo scored five times against Bayern Munich over two legs. In the semis, he scored a hat-trick against Atletico Madrid.
So when Real Madrid won the final against Juventus in Cardiff, it came as little surprise that it was orchestrated by Ronaldo. He bagged a brace, deciding yet another game.
Ronaldo is a man for the big occasion. At the 2018 World Cup in Russia, he has continued to show that mentality, leading to those inevitable comparisons with Lionel Messi.
+6
Cristiano Ronaldo has shown at the World Cup his appetite to star on the biggest stage of all
+6
Meanwhile his rival, Lionel Messi, carrying the weight of a nation, has failed to find the net
RELATED ARTICLES
Argentinian TV hosts hold minute's silence after Lionel...
Dejan Lovren labels Lionel Messi 'stoppable' after Croatia...
Neymar's insistence on taking centre stage is not good for...
'His goals have come from set-pieces, penalties or...
Share
663 shares
Atletico Madrid manager Diego Simeone accidentally contributed to the debate this week when a WhatsApp audio message to his assistant German Burgos was leaked in Spain.
In it, Simeone said: 'Messi is very good but he is very good because he is accompanied by extraordinary footballers. If you had to choose between Messi and Ronaldo for a normal team, who would you choose?'
In terms of who you would rather have in your side when it comes to the big games — the 90 minutes where it really matters — then the majority may side with Ronaldo.
A look at their Champions League records tells us how much of an influence he has. In the group stages, both have bagged 60 goals, though the Barcelona man has managed it in 15 games fewer.
Yet as the competition progresses, Ronaldo takes over. In the quarter-finals, he has scored 23 goals in 20 games. Messi has scored 10 in 20.
+6
An analysis of their Champions League records shows Ronaldo excels later in the tournament
+6
Messi has scored more goals in the group stages, but fewer in the quarter and semi-finals
In the semis, Ronaldo has scored 13 compared to Messi's four. In the final, it's four to two.
Once the heat is on, Ronaldo steps up, just as he has in Russia.
Every football fan will have his or her own preference. But with both Ronaldo and Messi carrying the expectations of entire nations on their shoulders, one has delivered, the other has not.
For Portugal, 33-year-old Ronaldo has decided two games – securing a draw with a hat-trick against Spain, and scoring the winner against Morocco. Iran are next on Monday.
Messi, meanwhile, has cut a frustrated figure at this World Cup. Having a country turning to him for inspiration appears to have weighed him down.
LIONEL MESSI
Champions League Group Stage
63 games, 60 goals
Round of 16
26 games, 24 goals
Quarter-finals
20 games, 10 goals
Semi-finals
13 games, 4 goals
Final
3 games, 2 goals
CRISTIANO RONALDO
Champions League Group Stage
78 games, 60 goals
Round of 16
28 games, 20 goals
Quarter-finals
20 games, 23 goals
Semi-finals
21 games, 13 goals
Final
6 games, 4 goals
In Argentina's 1-1 draw with Iceland, he missed a penalty to turn one point into three. In their 3-0 defeat by Croatia on Thursday, he failed to join the party again.
Messi was the bookmakers' favourite to win the World Cup's Golden Boot at the start of the tournament. So far, it is four goals for the Portuguese, and zilch for the Argentinian.
As well as Simeone, a fair few others in the world of pundits have given their two cents' worth on the debate over who is better. As it turns out, so has Ronaldo.
Well, arguably. In celebrating his opener against Spain, he stroked his chin, seemingly signalling that he is the GOAT – the Greatest Of All Time. In recent days, the normally clean-shaven Ronaldo has grown a goatee, though he claims the beard is a good luck charm following a conversation with team-mate Ricardo Quaresma.
+6
Ronaldo has inspired Portugal to four points from two matches, scoring all four of their goals
+6
The debate remains open to interpretation but many pundits think Ronaldo is the better player
In truth, it is open to interpretation. Plenty prefer Messi's unique talents, which he seems to have been born with. Others like the way Ronaldo has worked so hard to get so good.
Roy Keane, arguably biased, offered his opinion this week when he said: 'I think there has been a great debate about him and Messi but over the last six months I think he's on a new level.
'Ronaldo's out there on his own. It's not natural ability, as brilliant as he is, it's sheer hard work. He's got a lot of courage, he's brave and the guy is a genius.'
Ian Wright added: 'We've been fortunate to watch both at the height of their powers, but in years to come I think Ronaldo will pinch it for me.'
The Ronaldo vs Messi debate will rumble on until one or both retires, and no-one is wrong. It can come down to a matter of personal preference.
Yet as Simeone said, if you surrounded both with 10 players of typical professional quality, who would you back to do the better job? Messi has had his moments but judging by what we've seen recently, that man is now Ronaldo.
RELATED ARTICLES
agentcooper
Well-Known Member
Amazing hyperbole due to Messi having a couple of poor games. My point of view:
1. Messi is the greatest footballer of all time
2. Messi has been shit in World Cups so far
Number 2 does not make number 1 untrue. Of course he will be disappointed if he never turns it on in a WC but it doesn't make him a poorer player than other greats.
As for Ronaldo, not the most likeable guy but certainly one of the big 4 of all time for me (Messi/Maradona/Pele/CR). But worth noting he has also been pretty shit in WCs prior to this one.
1. Messi is the greatest footballer of all time
2. Messi has been shit in World Cups so far
Number 2 does not make number 1 untrue. Of course he will be disappointed if he never turns it on in a WC but it doesn't make him a poorer player than other greats.
As for Ronaldo, not the most likeable guy but certainly one of the big 4 of all time for me (Messi/Maradona/Pele/CR). But worth noting he has also been pretty shit in WCs prior to this one.
Jacrispy
Well-Known Member
The hyperbole is mental. He’s literally 2 games into a WC with a shitty fractured team. He’s just come off the back of an outstanding season for Barca where he was as close to a one man team in a title winning side as I’ve seen.
Meanwhile the same ones mocking him have Ronaldo as the favourite for the Ballon D’or almost solely because of an overhead kick against Juventus and a hat trick vs Spain. No mention of having a horrendous half season for Madrid where they finished third and nae mention of him going AWOL in the CL semi’s and final. Cúnts lucky his teams can cross the finish line without him or he’d be another 2 Ballon D’ors down.
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dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
I've genuinely never seen anything like it in the Messi vs Ronaldo debate. It's gone absolutely mental since Messi's had two poor games and Ronaldo's scored 4 goals.
Wonder what they were all saying when Portugal went out at the group stages in 2014? What about 2010 when Ronaldo's only goal of the tournament came in a 7-0 pumping of North Korea? WC 2006 his only goal was a penalty vs Iran.
Hardly setting the world alight...
Wonder what they were all saying when Portugal went out at the group stages in 2014? What about 2010 when Ronaldo's only goal of the tournament came in a 7-0 pumping of North Korea? WC 2006 his only goal was a penalty vs Iran.
Hardly setting the world alight...
Sir Drake of Autzen
Well-Known Member
At least Ronaldo scored his penalty.
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omegaman
Well-Known Member
Okay, why?
What is it that he does beyond scoring a shed load of goals that marks him out as the best ever in your book?
Bigbluebear
Well-Known Member
Lukaku is currently joint best player in the world, since he has 4 world cup goals.
JeffreySpaulding
Well-Known Member
This American pundit has settled the debate once and for all. Messi is a fraud apparently.
https://twitter.com/KindPrins/status/1009968549295685632
https://twitter.com/KindPrins/status/1009968549295685632
Jacrispy
Well-Known Member
Ballon d’or surely? No penalties and he didn’t need the keeper to chuck the ball in the net for any of his either
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
You fancy Argentina to go through young in? Got Messi in my dream team and sticking by him.
Who do Argies play if they beat Nigeria?
Who normally plays in goal for them? The boy from Man Utd must be a better option on that cow who sold the Modric goal as well
KensingtonBlue
Well-Known Member
It’s going to be quite amusing in here when Argentina pump Nigeria and end up going further than Portugal in the competition
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
Portugal will beat Russia if I'm right about groupsIt’s going to be quite amusing in here when Argentina pump Nigeria and end up going further than Portugal in the competition
Jacrispy
Well-Known Member
I genuinely wouldn’t bet on them. They look horrendous, the squad they’ve taken is fairly pish save for a few quality attackers, and there’s clearly some sort of turmoil in their camp.
They could easily arse it up. Even if they don’t, they’re going right out in the round of 16!
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
Romero got injured I think otherwise he normally would be their first choice?
If Argentina finish 2nd in the group and France finish top of theirs, they'll meet in the last 16.
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
We like a laugh and a wee dig about they two!have done for years lol.
Messi genuinely looks absolutely disgusted with his team mates.
I play 11s have done for years etc
Messi and Ronaldo must have some influence in the sides the manager is picking not think so?
Who do they play in the last 16 when they beat Nigeria?
Messi genuinely looks absolutely disgusted with his team mates.
I play 11s have done for years etc
Messi and Ronaldo must have some influence in the sides the manager is picking not think so?
Who do they play in the last 16 when they beat Nigeria?
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
They're out then! Young boy from PSG running at that ride playing for City lol
KensingtonBlue
Well-Known Member
If they make it through but I think Iran are really going to fancy their chances.
BrooklynBlue
Well-Known Member
Armani from River Plate will likely be in goals on Tuesday.
Gioloya1
Well-Known Member
A jumper or a t-shirt would be an improvement
rabbie73
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't consider myself a old codger only 49 but football was better years ago. Ronaldo great as he is a football player he's also a cheating diving bastard.
Can't see it,having seen the Croatia game,Messi apart,Argentina are a poor team,too many players not playing for the team and every time I've seen Messi in an Argentina shirt, he's disappointed,the difference is Ronaldo always seems to turn up.It’s going to be quite amusing in here when Argentina pump Nigeria and end up going further than Portugal in the competition
Jjbscotty
Well-Known Member
Its mental the stick messi is receiving atm, its not so far fatched to think argentina will qualify and portgual go out looking at the the group standings Iran could beat portgual.
CalgaryLoyal
Well-Known Member
Messi is a footballing genius because he was born with it
Ronaldo is almost as good as Messi because he has worked his bollocks off to be where he is plus his natural ability
Both are 2 of the best players that the world has ever seen
Messi is better than Ronaldo that's just a footballing fact
Grown men having getting upset about who is better need to have a can of juice and just accept we have watched 2 of the best players in the world in our lifetime
Ronaldo is almost as good as Messi because he has worked his bollocks off to be where he is plus his natural ability
Both are 2 of the best players that the world has ever seen
Messi is better than Ronaldo that's just a footballing fact
Grown men having getting upset about who is better need to have a can of juice and just accept we have watched 2 of the best players in the world in our lifetime
Gheorghe_Hagi
Well-Known Member
Depends how you define better. More fun to watch or better quality?
Dr. Strangelove
Well-Known Member
I think I'd change my mind to not agree with him if I didn't already.
Teddyjohn
Well-Known Member
Messi surpassed Maradona a very long time ago.
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
I agree to an extent. There are videos of Messi at 7/8 years old and he's running amok, but I think it also discredits him a little as it sounds as if he's not hard to work hard to get where he is.
By all accounts Ronaldo's a complete animal when it comes to training. First in and last out, extra gym work etc. Fair play to him.
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
People need to remember that Messi is also 3 years younger than Ronaldo. If there records are similar now, imagine how far ahead Messi is going to be if he plays 3 years longer than Ronaldo.
