Miller and Wallace appeals upheld

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I guess the devil will be in the detail.
Were they appealling claiming they were not guilty of anything or was it just the severity of the punishment.

Doubtless we have a few versions of events to endure over the next few days.
Be good to put it all to bed anyway.
 
a_weir said:
Constructive dismissal can also relate to non-renewal if fixed term contracts
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Not in this instance, although certain things apply in any industry football included nobody would view not renewing a contract of a 38 year old footballer as being a breach
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
An utterly embarrassing episode in all honesty. A nothing situation that should have been dealt with behind closed doors without a word even getting outside about it.

The fact it's rumbled on for months is embarrassing in all honesty.
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I agree with the main sentiment of your post, but rather than it having been an embarrassment it should have been unnecessary. There's possibly the hint the board were placed in an impossible situation and I expect they're glad it's over, regardless of the outcome.
 
Safe Standing Bear said:
Bleating to the press? I hope he does go to the press and gets his story out it's abysmal the way we have treated him and alot of us want to know the truth!
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He will indeed get his story out and it will be his version of the truth. I'm sure others will have their versions and we may never get to hear those.

Fairly confident the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth will never be known.
 
a_weir said:
Wallace won’t be owed a penny but will have any disciplinary scrubbed from his record.

We may have to pay out based on constructive dismissal for Miller but it’s only to cover his wages until he got the Livie job
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Don’t think we actually dismissed him. Just suspended him and his contract expired during that?

Other than that I don’t think it will mean anything for the club other than having to return any “fined” wages to the players.
 
This was handled abysmally by the club.

Miller and Wallace might have gone OTT but they cared about us getting tanked by Celtic. Did Murty?

The story emerged in such a way as looking like an embarrassing attempt to deflect from the result.

As for leaks, who tipped off STV to film Wallace and Miller on their arrival for talks with Robertson?

This should never have escalated as it did and Stewart Robertson is ultimately responsible.

What happens in the dressing-room should stay in the dressing-room. Finally, football clubs cannot afford to have disputes within the team treated as if they were a tiff between employees in a supermarket or call-centre.
 
How Murty comes out of this smelling of roses is beyond me,those two players were just as outraged as the supporters and had every right to state their case, as the most senior players at the club Murty should have been savvy enough to take on board any advice they wanted to give,to treat them the way he did was probably the cause of how it blew up.
 
Truthfully, from the very start of this complete fiasco, we all heard what had gone on.

Miller and Wallace had a few home truths to be told to those who absolutely shamed our jerseys with disgraceful performances against Scum FC.

I've never really understood why Rangers backed Murty on this. From where I was standing, they were both right if they went right through the whole lot of them after those surrender monkey displays

Anyway, hopefully this draws a line under this and I mean this when I say I would like Kenny Miller to be able to enjoy the deserved acclaim of the crowd at Ibrox as a fitting end to his days with us. Not as a player now, obviously, but as a welcome guest. Same for Lee Wallace.

Don't know if that will be a popular view, but it's how I feel
 
TN8 said:
Strange reaction when it sounds like they were found to be in the right?
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Found in the right by who? The SPFL?

I'll take any determination from Lawell's board with a pinch of salt and I'll back the club personally.

If this is true well done to Gerrard for getting Wallace out of the Euro squad.
 
sheddensbear said:
Nonsense. If Murty thinks they have behaved wrongly, drop them and make them train with reserves. Same with Barton. A manager picks best team possible. He just says "that's team I've picked"
All this HR nonsense has no place in football w.r.t. players.
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Murty was between a rock and a hard place as, with the exception of the foreign players Pedro had signed, Kenny was in control of the dressing room. Interviews by players such as Windass show the huge influence Miller had on the dressing room.
 
deedle said:
This was handled abysmally by the club.

Miller and Wallace might have gone OTT but they cared about us getting tanked by Celtic. Did Murty?

The story emerged in such a way as looking like an embarrassing attempt to deflect from the result.

As for leaks, who tipped off STV to film Wallace and Miller on their arrival for talks with Robertson?

This should never have escalated as it did and Stewart Robertson is ultimately responsible.

What happens in the dressing-room should stay in the dressing-room. Finally, football clubs cannot afford to have disputes within the team treated as if they were a tiff between employees in a supermarket or call-centre.
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Spot on as usual, Deedle.

The worry here is that it's yet another shambolic episode of Robertson and the club badly handling a situation.

Gerrard's arrival and our positive start has helped deflect attention away from the managing director and the club's board (which to be fair is more or less as it should be) with many perhaps imagining we've turned a corner in administrative matters, but this whole circus tends to suggest otherwise.
 
TN8 said:
Clears their name at least. Who knows what it means for the club, Murty etc.

Can't say it really interests me to be honest.
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Upheld to me would suggest that it doesn’t clear their name, unless I am missing something.

I’d have expected it to say appeal granted, if they were cleared.

It is down to the way it is worded, and there’s nothing official I suppose
 
Arminius said:
Truthfully, from the very start of this complete fiasco, we all heard what had gone on.

Miller and Wallace had a few home truths to be told to those who absolutely shamed our jerseys with disgraceful performances against Scum FC.

I've never really understood why Rangers backed Murty on this. From where I was standing, they were both right if they went right through the whole lot of them after those surrender monkey displays
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I think the club's initial response was correct in purely HR terms - the players verbally attacked the manager who raised a grievance necessitating their suspension pending review.

That it took this long to resolve though is the embarrassing bit and there's certainly a good argument it should never have gotten that far anyway.

Playing devil's advocate however, I wonder if Miller and Wallace's previous opposition towards Pedro may have given the club food for thought if we were already in early talks with Gerrard at the time, i.e. did we really want this pair hanging around to undermine yet another manager?
 
omegaman said:
Spot on as usual, Deedle.

The worry here is that it's yet another shambolic episode of Robertson and the club badly handling a situation.

Gerrard's arrival and our positive start has helped deflect attention away from the managing director and the club's board (which to be fair is more or less as it should be) with many perhaps imagining we've turned a corner in administrative matters, but this whole circus tends to suggest otherwise.
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What is your basis for saying that this is another shambolic episode of Robertson and the club badly handling a situation?
 
Tomted said:
What is your basis for saying that this is another shambolic episode of Robertson and the club badly handling a situation?
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Warburton's departure; Pedro's appointment; the McInnes debacle; Murty getting the job; Murty getting his P45, and now this - it's a litany of embarrassment mate, all under his watch.
 
Safe Standing Bear said:
Bleating to the press? I hope he does go to the press and gets his story out it's abysmal the way we have treated him and alot of us want to know the truth!
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It’s a funny one mate. I don’t want to hear the club badmouthed, but I’m glad that these 2 players who’ve always given us their all , have had their name cleared.
 
Murty made a mess of a game against them and our fans are right to be annoyed and against his management. Players on the other hand can be unhappy but mouthing off against any Rangers manager no matter the result of a game is not the Rangers way and never has been.
Wallace surprises me but as he is still in the squad I am sure he played a lesser part.
Miller did his best for us on the park but he is a mouthy character and thinks too much of himself. Did not last long at Livi as clearly he was not suitable for the job and it looks like he just wants to continue playing.
It should be remembered when there were leaks coming out of Rangers he was dropped from the team and strangely there were few leaks thereafter.
Regards Murty I don't think he is suitable in his current position but that is up to Robertson to decide and how those under his current management fare.
 
deano1981 said:
It’s a funny one mate. I don’t want to hear the club badmouthed, but I’m glad that these 2 players who’ve always given us their all , have had their name cleared.
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We need to wait and find out of they've had their name cleared. There is absolutely nothing that suggests that. It could be the decision is simply that the fine of two weeks wages is excessive, it could be that there was no case to answer. In fact, we don't even know if they appealed against ANY punishment or if they appealed against the SEVERITY of the punishment. Unless I've missed it.
 
Arminius said:
Truthfully, from the very start of this complete fiasco, we all heard what had gone on.

Miller and Wallace had a few home truths to be told to those who absolutely shamed our jerseys with disgraceful performances against Scum FC.

I've never really understood why Rangers backed Murty on this. From where I was standing, they were both right if they went right through the whole lot of them after those surrender monkey displays
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But we don't know - we don't know what was alleged to have been said, we don't know what was said to or about the manager, we don't know who witnessed what. All we know is the club felt it appropriate to take disciplinary action against the two players
 
amabluestar said:
No doubt Miller will try to take us for a few quid.
Wallace can go train with Murty till his contract is up.
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No he won’t but he will be wanting what is due to him, it looks like they did nothing but make it heir feelings known and all ours for that matter to a weak man who made up a story to deflect his own shortcomings. poet like behaviour by Murty to save his own skin.
 
Genuinely can’t believe the board backed Murty in this instance.

Both players were harshly dealt by the club imo. Murty was 100% in the wrong and created a storm in a tea cup that he could have nipped in the bud in he changing room at full time.
 
Alex said:
Calling a man who stepped up after two managerial failures a stain on our club isn’t right, in my opinion. We all know his failings, and weaknesses, as a manager but I feel it’s harsh to say he’s never welcome back.
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Stepped up?

He accepted the job, he sent us out for a humiliation at Parkhead, before the game he stood there and shrugged his shoulders and said "I just stand on the sidelines" , He took the piss out of every single supporter that day and I will never forget or forgive him.

9-0 over two games, no wonder certain players were furious with him, and for him to scuttle off and make an HR complaint shows the weak willed individual he is.

When I say never welcome back, I mean never allowed to walk back through those doors as a Rangers employee.

Oh, and he was our "Manager" for longer for Caixhina, so lets not try and make the temporary excuse for him, he was a ridiculous failure who's final act was humiliating the fans - that I can never forgive.
 
Hkda said:
Upheld to me would suggest that it doesn’t clear their name, unless I am missing something.

I’d have expected it to say appeal granted, if they were cleared.

It is down to the way it is worded, and there’s nothing official I suppose
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If their appeals were upheld that would mean they'd won their appeals o_O
 
Jaws II said:
Need to punt Murty now, I can’t be too critical of the players on this incident.
He stinks of failure and needs punted from Rangers.
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I can't believe he's still here, and in the role he's in, after what Gerrard said about his management (or lack thereof) of McCrorie towards the end of last season.
 
TN8 said:
I'm saying it sounds like they were. If the OP is correct, which hasn't been confirmed yet.
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We don't even know what they appealed against. Was it that there was no case to answer or was it the severity of the fine? Lots of assumptions being made it seems.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
We don't even know what they appealed against. Was it that there was no case to answer or was it the severity of the fine? Lots of assumptions being made it seems.
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It was reported as the severity of their fines and suspensions.

So IF the OP is correct then it would seem as plenty of us suspected that Murty shat the bed and burst into tears because they showed a bit of passion and disgust at getting pumped off the filth.
 
Bobans27 said:
Genuinely can’t believe the board backed Murty in this instance.

Both players were harshly dealt by the club imo. Murty was 100% in the wrong and created a storm in a tea cup that he could have nipped in the bud in he changing room at full time.
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This sums up my opinion exactly
 
Unless we hear all the evidence ,which we won't, it's impossible to make a judgement on who is right and who is wrong. The only thing I would say is that it should never have got to this stage.
 
TN8 said:
It was reported as the severity of their fines and suspensions.

So IF the OP is correct then it would seem as plenty of us suspected that Murty shat the bed and burst into tears because they showed a bit of passion and disgust at getting pumped off the filth.
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That suggests then that they accepted that what they did was wrong but were simply contesting the punishments.

If that's the case then they haven't been 'cleared' at all as some are suggesting.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I doubt we will ever hear a factual and unbiased account of what actually went on that day.

Unless Kenny goes bleating to the Press then, hopefully, this will be the end of it. Ridiculous that it got to this stage quite honestly.
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What do you mean unless he will be on the phone to the rebel now.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
That suggests then that they accepted that what they did was wrong but were simply contesting the punishments.

If that's the case then they haven't been 'cleared' at all as some are suggesting.
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Or maybe they think they shouldn't have been punished at all and it was just a heated argument that Murty couldn't handle? I would imagine other players who were there would've been asked for their accounts of what happened.

None of us know I suppose, so you're right that it's all based on assumptions. But knowing what we know of Murty I would lean strongly to the players side of things.
 
Murty took the heat off the board. If he has any sense, he'll have had his contract amended to mean a large pay-off would be required to remove him.

The players look as though they've been hard done by, but something tells me that there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.
 
omegaman said:
I think the club's initial response was correct in purely HR terms - the players verbally attacked the manager who raised a grievance necessitating their suspension pending review.

That it took this long to resolve though is the embarrassing bit and there's certainly a good argument it should never have gotten that far anyway.

Playing devil's advocate however, I wonder if Miller and Wallace's previous opposition towards Pedro may have given the club food for thought if we were already in early talks with Gerrard at the time, i.e. did we really want this pair hanging around to undermine yet another manager?
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Possibly.

Looking back at the entire period, though, Pedro was an unmitigated disaster, as was Murty's period at the helm.

Honestly, it just saddens me that two players who genuinely gave the club some great performances and good years of service should have their time with us come to an end in this manner.

We all saw what was going on, on the pitch. It was absolutely shameful stuff. Complete surrender. I've never seen that before in my life from any Rangers team. If Miller and Wallace had something to say about that, good.

If I had been in that dressing room, it would be me that's now trying to clear my name
 
TN8 said:
Or maybe they think they shouldn't have been punished at all and it was just a heated argument that Murty couldn't handle? I would imagine other players who were there would've been asked for their accounts of what happened.

None of us know I suppose, so you're right that it's all based on assumptions. But knowing what we know of Murty I would lean strongly to the players side of things.
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Don't get me wrong - I'm not taking sides here. Senior players have a right to be critical - up to a point. I have no idea if they crossed that line.

What I'm getting at is that folk are saying the players have been 'cleared' when, if you are correct, they were, in fact, appealing the severity of their punishment. Appealing the severity of the punishment - rather than the 'conviction' - suggests they accepted that they over-stepped the line.

Whatever the circumstances, it should never have come to this.
 
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