Rangers - its the way you defend the charges that bothers me.

GF7

Well-Known Member
So ask yourself why UEFA have partnered with an ultra left wing pressure group like FARE who's directors openly support Palastine and abuse the British Military? Come on! Open your eyes.
Pretty sure cletic were sanctioned for flying Palestine flags?
Your 100% right it's FARE that are driving this agenda and having a free reign to do so.
That's probay true. FARE have reported us in every European game since being back in the top flight - Uefa ignored them. A uefa delegate attends jospehs game and we sing a song we know is banned, and get sanctioned as per uefa's rulebook. Keep doing it then stadium is closed, keep doing it after that then expelled from tournament.

FARE might be questionable at best, but the sanction is for something we actually did do. So until we clean up the songbook not sure how we can tackle FARE
 

Zwingli'sSausages

Well-Known Member
Exactly how it should pan out.
Being honest, I have zero faith that it will.

For all the good the board have done, they are still Murray-esque negligent when it comes to defending the club or fans.
My only criticism of the board (so far) in all this is they should be actively engaging with the UB (maybe they are?). The UB also need to take this on the chin and move forward. They can potentially have a huge role in making sure none of the pish is sung at games whilst creating a brilliant atmosphere.

The FARE problem is a battle for another day. Just now, we need all supporters, including the board, the UB, BO and RSC's on the same page. Some bears are just not seeing how potentially serious this whole thing will play out. Simple-minded defiance will see us papped out of Europe with hugely negative consequences.

At what point do these fans start to learn?
They will do more damage than any Rangers hater could wish for.

FARE's day will come.
 

Earl of Leven

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
FARE have UEFA's ear but there is nothing we can do about that. Stop giving FARE reasons to report us and their work dries up, their funding runs out. We can help kill FARE by cutting out the stupid songs that are neither part of our history or heritage, as someone else suggested. We need to box clever.
That's not for you to say though. For generations, decades, longer....those songs, beliefs and attitudes were part of our support and made us a hiuhe club. It is not for you to decry that.
 

Zwingli'sSausages

Well-Known Member
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy
You are completely missing the point here. We are very close to being kicked out of Europe ffs.
What do you think the consequences of that will be?
 

BlueHaze

Well-Known Member
The club have to have their say in this,A strong statement telling fans exactly what songs,chants and add ons that will not be tolerated,Season ticket removal life bans and lay down a message that the rules will be strictly enforced and strongly policed.
To sit and do nothing is not an option.
 

ChiefWahoo

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
My only criticism of the board (so far) in all this is they should be actively engaging with the UB (maybe they are?). The UB also need to take this on the chin and move forward. They can potentially have a huge role in making sure none of the pish is sung at games whilst creating a brilliant atmosphere.

The FARE problem is a battle for another day. Just now, we need all supporters, including the board, the UB, BO and RSC's on the same page. Some bears are just not seeing how potentially serious this whole thing will play out. Simple-minded defiance will see us papped out of Europe with hugely negative consequences.

At what point do these fans start to learn?
They will do more damage than any Rangers hater could wish for.

FARE's day will come.
I've no doubt that the songs will disappear. My only fear is that they return again, as they have done now, as a result of an uneven agenda.

Had we seen the filths ira repertoire under the spotlight, songs about the Ibrox disaster or mentions of huns and orange bastards under the same scrutiny, then TBB would never have come back.

I hope this is something the club recognise or we could be back here in a few years time.
 

daven37

Well-Known Member
Mate – I get the feeling that something is off here.

There is clear evidence that we are being specifically targeted by a group who have questionable motives.

The pisser is we have absolutely no defence for continuing to sing these songs.

We have been warned over the years – well warned and still they continue. This is disappointing as we had made real progress in weeding out the crap – and it is not just the Billy Boys or references to “fenian”.

We are playing in UEFA’s tournaments, we abide by their rules and the rules are clear.

We can’t make any push back from a position where we are clearly in the wrong and quite frankly this has to be the kick in the arse the fans need to weed this utter shite out of our stands.

This is a threat to our future as much as any witch hunt/stitch up over EBTs. This threat is within our own support though and we need the mindset to change in line with modern times. This is not to say we bin our traditions – we just need to tweak certain things like singing songs of celebration instead of fxxking this guy/group or killing or maiming anyone.

We (the fans – C1872 or Union Bears if they have the will to do it and I would certainly contribute if they were seeking to raise funds to afford legal fees) need to take ownership of this and we need to seek legal advice over what is acceptable and what is not. We should not be waiting for the club to issue a list of acceptable chants.

Any investigation of FARE and their motives would need to be independent from the club.
 

Zwingli'sSausages

Well-Known Member
Mate – I get the feeling that something is off here.

There is clear evidence that we are being specifically targeted by a group who have questionable motives.

The pisser is we have absolutely no defence for continuing to sing these songs.

We have been warned over the years – well warned and still they continue. This is disappointing as we had made real progress in weeding out the crap – and it is not just the Billy Boys or references to “fenian”.

We are playing in UEFA’s tournaments, we abide by their rules and the rules are clear.

We can’t make any push back from a position where we are clearly in the wrong and quite frankly this has to be the kick in the arse the fans need to weed this utter shite out of our stands.

This is a threat to our future as much as any witch hunt/stitch up over EBTs. This threat is within our own support though and we need the mindset to change in line with modern times. This is not to say we bin our traditions – we just need to tweak certain things like singing songs of celebration instead of fxxking this guy/group or killing or maiming anyone.

We (the fans – C1872 or Union Bears if they have the will to do it and I would certainly contribute if they were seeking to raise funds to afford legal fees) need to take ownership of this and we need to seek legal advice over what is acceptable and what is not. We should not be waiting for the club to issue a list of acceptable chants.

Any investigation of FARE and their motives would need to be independent from the club.

Agree with all of that bar the last sentence. The club needs to be taking on FARE (at the right time which is not now). Who else is going to do it?
 

StirlingBear

Well-Known Member
Reading this thread I have the absolute fear we will be cited again with a stadium closure.

How difficult is it to understand that we have to really clean up our act for UEFA competition. We could have our stadium closed, and at worst expelled from the competition.

What do you think our manager will do if we are thrown out of Europe after reaching the group stages again? I doubt he will be here long in that scenario.

What cost is a stadium closure to the club in revenue? 1-2M?

Are our fans actually that stupid they want to derail our entire season and possibly chase our manager out the door?

All this is staring us right in the face because for a few games of football we cant sing about our club rather than some songs deemed offensive by the tournament organisers?

As for FARE why is it such a surprise to some folk? They have at this for over 10 years with us. People need to realise that by giving them ammo we can never attack them or do anything about them as we are in a self inflicted position of weakness. If we are squeaky clean we can go straight for the throat.

And as for this notion that UEFA are in cahoots with them that's utter nonsense. UEFA ignored their reports on us all last season. UEFA probably cant be bothered with them but they are a registered charity and if they complain about us enough times then UEFA are forced into action.
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Piara Powar has a close connection to Dermott Desmond's son and has worked for his organisation . We have a right to question the impartiality of FARE and their chief executive and to question why they are targetting our club.
After we clean up our act THIS is what MUST happen, we can't throw stones from our glass house at the moment. They've made the mistake of doing just that and their time will come
 

squaddie-bear

Well-Known Member
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy
you are an idiot.

it has been explained by numerous organisations and even our own club that singing about/against catholics, the pope etc is not going to be tolerated.

That's the end of it. If you are so stupid that you seem to think that we should keep on doing it and subsequently get kicked out of Europe and all the other consequences just because it is "oor kultchure" then i don't know what else to say.

Go sing about that sort of stuff somewhere else - the club have told the support numerous times its not welcome.
 

hammer-time

Well-Known Member
After we clean up our act


THIS is what MUST happen, we can't throw stones from our glass house at the moment. They've made the mistake of doing just that and their time will come

thats 2 points in the stock answer reply for this thread! you could have used whataboutery and that was a jackpot score
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
thats 2 points in the stock answer reply for this thread! you could have used whataboutery and that was a jackpot score
Have you just learned what you believe the meaning of whataboutery to be, and it's your new go to word!
Your definition is wrong because there's nothing whataboutery in what I said mate
 

MarkieLoyal

Active Member
For me the OP is spot on.

Its the manner of this " charge" The "Claimant" has a hatred of Rangers and is linked like a spiders web to liewells chamber of brushed over horrors.

Okay, lets get one thing straight, i think being able to or not being able to sing offending songs is a nonsense. HOWEVER the rules say we cant - so we cant. We MUST stop. And for the record I am a regular attendee ( and season ticket holder at Ibrox and i DO not and NEVER have sung the offending songs)

But i do feel slightly, no not slightly, hugely discriminated against. We are NOT the only club to be "naughty" but we are the only one to be thrashed for it.

We need total impartiality no matter what competition and our board can do so so much more to fight the corner that we are in.

Whilst we must to as Dave King says and follow the guidelines laid out we should be looking for more action elsewhere.
 

ChiefWahoo

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
And as for this notion that UEFA are in cahoots with them that's utter nonsense. UEFA ignored their reports on us all last season. UEFA probably cant be bothered with them but they are a registered charity and if they complain about us enough times then UEFA are forced into action.
It was UEFAs observer apparently, a Norwegian chap, who reported the songs.

I reckon the scenario is that UEFA have got bored with FARE constantly reporting us, and FARE have spat the dummy.

UEFA send their own guy and unfortunately our support give him the evidence.

We know FARE are at every game we play in Europe, we know they are operating to an agenda, I suspect that UEFA do too.

If we get our act together then we starve FARE out.
 

Blue Willie

Active Member
Does anyone think if we stopped singing the Billy boys and the adds on the corrupt FARE would stop targeting our songs?
This organisation have been after us for decades they would be offended with other songs. Our board should be questioning why FARE seem to target one club ours.
We can all Google to see the Racism and bigotry from FARE and they're very political so why are UEFA using them.
I think we (The Fans/1872 etc ) should start a another Fighting Fund and be seeking a human rights lawyer to go after FARE and expose them for their hatred of our club.
 
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Mondraker

Well-Known Member
So you don't actually want the songs defended, you want the club to engage in finger-pointing?
See this finger pointing and whataboutery argument, it does nothing but shutdown discussion.

In order to help the club/fans and even society. You have to explain why the double standards or how things are being viewed and reported.

Otherwise it just raises questions and it usually gets peoples backs up who then react negatively to being told to do something when others are allowed to do similar.

Its human nature...treat one set of people differently and get unrest. Treat everyone the same and explain reasons and usually we comply.
 

Tom Petty

Well-Known Member
There is no defending it. UEFA are judge and jury. We don't stand trial or go to court, the charge is the charge. Fans said the word in question. Don't say the word, that's literally all people have to do. That's what the club have told you.
 

A1bertz

Well-Known Member
We don't have a leg to stand on OP.
Rangers may have responded to the charges for all we know but maybe just not in public.

Let's all agree to get out own house in order. That's all you me and the rest of the fans can do. Comply at long last with the club's wishes. They have asked us for years and it's largely been ignored.
 

StirlingBear

Well-Known Member
Does anyone think if we stopped singing the Billy boys and the adds on the corrupt FARE would stop targeting our songs?
This organisation have been after us for decades they would be offended with other songs. Our board should be questioning why FARE seem to target one club ours.
We can all Google to see the Racism and bigotry from FARE and they're very political so why are UEFA using them.
I think we (The Fans/1872 etc ) should start a another Fighting Fund and be seeking a human rights lawyer to go after FARE and expose them for their hatred of our club.
See this line trotted out time and time again.

Of course they won't they will try their hardest to pin something on us but no matter how hard they try it wont work. As long as we keep to the PC song book there is nothing that can be done and if UEFA eventually listen to them at least we are in a position of strength and can defend ourselves.

Still plenty to sing apart from BB, 50p flute & Super Rangers its not difficult.
 

Mark Walters

Well-Known Member
Rangers can't be seen to condone religious stuff.

We might not like it but thathere we're at.
That's true but they've proved to be pretty fucking Murray-esque when dealing with the support in all aspects of support related PR stuff. We had English and Stewart make fun of the fact that our support were involved in a crushing incident and their response was as pitiful as they come, growing more and more frustrated at how limp-fucking-wristed they are.

I fully agree the song sheet needs to change, argued that fact on here and twitter when TBB, bought a flute etc crept back in circa 5 years ago but if this board think they can piss on us from a great height like Murray did then I'll oppose them just as vehemently. They better get their act together.
 

Mbear

Well-Known Member
But it shows it's not a word that causes them any offence. They use it to describe themselves...would they really use an offensive word in a banner?

No.
This really isn’t the point.

It boils down to the fact that we can’t sing it. End of
 

blueballs

Well-Known Member
There is no defending it. UEFA are judge and jury. We don't stand trial or go to court, the charge is the charge. Fans said the word in question. Don't say the word, that's literally all people have to do. That's what the club have told you.
Once again, every word you wrote is right and understood. Totally. No arguments. No defence.

Do you then think that the likes of FARE will then simply stop their infatuated intent to do us serious harm? If, as you put it, it's literally down to not saying the word (which I'm in agreement with you) are you really saying, in all honesty, that will be an end of FAREs deeply set desire to besmirch our name?

Cause where your undoubtedly right in what you've said, its blindingly obvious, its what you've not said that worries me. Theres more afoot here than us stopping to sing one word, I assure you
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Agree mate, but we shouldn't be sucking anything up. Thats the thin end of the wedge and if we accept it now, we have lost. Screw UEFA and FARE and defend our history and heritage at any cost in my opinion. We are Rangers, and they HATE everything we stand for. You only have to Google or Twitter search FARE and its immediately clear who there people are, and we should not lie down under any circumstances for anything they say.
What does not accepting it look like to you? Keep singing and just don’t play football?
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Once again, every word you wrote is right and understood. Totally. No arguments. No defence.

Do you then think that the likes of FARE will then simply stop their infatuated intent to do us serious harm? If, as you put it, it's literally down to not saying the word (which I'm in agreement with you) are you really saying, in all honesty, that will be an end of FAREs deeply set desire to besmirch our name?

Cause where your undoubtedly right in what you've said, its blindingly obvious, its what you've not said that worries me. Theres more afoot here than us stopping to sing one word, I assure you
Because there’s more than one word.
 

ecossebear

Well-Known Member
This argument of “if we stop singing the songs they’ll get us for something else” is completely irrelevant. How about we stop singing the songs then we can take that argument if we are still pursued! At the moment we don’t have a leg to stand on. If we clean up our act then it’s a different story and we can go after FARE if we still think it’s double standards.
 

punksnotdead

Well-Known Member
There’s nothing to defend. It was loud and clear and indefensible. The “but what about Celtic” nonsense is so immature it’s unreal. I don’t want the club to “stand up” for sectarian singing. They have told us not to do it, so we don’t do it! It’s that simple. It’s UEFAs tournament and we play by their rules whether we like it or not. If we start getting picked on for one or two people singing banned songs then I agree we need to look at it as a witch hunt, but this particular charge we are guilty no doubt. Anyone watching the game knows we were but you still want the club to fight it?
In the OP's post he says the songs have to go, he's not asking the board to defend sectarian singing. What he's saying is we should be looking at the background of FARE and why they are so obsessed with Rangers. The other mob have had numerous fines for loads of misdemeanours including players being assaulted, we sing a naughty word in a song and face stadium closure. Surely the club should be asking these questions, they deserve to be answered.
 

wee bud's pit boots

Well-Known Member
They should absolutely be challenging the validity, and impartiality, of the accusers.
Why hasn't it already been done?

It is gross negligence by a board who already know how life works here in Timmyo.

You confront them at every turn, you highlight every single peace of cheating by the scum in black, domestically.

The bottom line is, the board simply doesn't have the stomach for that fight. I realise that they have came into fights that Murray should have been fighting, but where is this line in the sand?

It's not about criticising the board per se. It's just that they never understood the tsunami of hatred coming their way when they started turning the club around.

You then, over the last couple of weeks, have the filth draping banners over three segments of stands. Pelting an opposition European team with objects but we get 3,000 seats closed down for a song, and we don't say a word, other than to have a dig at our own fans?

In 21st century Scotland that is negligence.

In any fecking century it is negligence.
 

blueballs

Well-Known Member
Because there’s more than one word.
Seriously. You write that as if it's an effective shutdown.

I'm aware of the issues over the songs thanks...but if you read the message to which I'm replying the poster talks about 'literally one word' needing changed. I'm referencing their post hence aligning the response.

But thanks for the lazy, half arsed and unhelpful response. Moving on now.
 

Coop1872

Well-Known Member
Other clubs have been fined for "illicit" chants including the scum (IRA, I think), Man U ( Hillsborough) and Liverpool ( Munich air crash). I would like to see the club seek clarification as to why these particular chants are not dealt with in a similar manner. One about an organisation that has murdered thousands of innocents, another about the deaths of football supporters and the other about the deaths of footballers themselves.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Seriously. You write that as if it's an effective shutdown.

I'm aware of the issues over the songs thanks...but if you read the message to which I'm replying the poster talks about 'literally one word' needing changed. I'm referencing their post hence aligning the response.

But thanks for the lazy, half arsed and unhelpful response. Moving on now.
Trying to isolate a single word and cut songs as close as possible is a disaster waiting to happen.
 

hammer-time

Well-Known Member
We don't have a leg to stand on OP.
Rangers may have responded to the charges for all we know but maybe just not in public.

Let's all agree to get out own house in order. That's all you me and the rest of the fans can do. Comply at long last with the club's wishes. They have asked us for years and it's largely been ignored.

I keep seeing this written so, can you tell me what you think then happens? Do you think they wont ever come after us for something else and then something else?

This for me is not just about a few words sung in a song but instead about us as a club and who and what we are seen as representing.

This is Piara Powar at an anti Israeli and pro Palestine meeting so, when the tramps had their support Palestine banners and flags during a European match..he wouldn't be thinking, they should have their stands closed for breaking the rules..He was thinking, I agree! even though their display was racist antisemitism.



http://www.inminds.com/article.php?id=10604&hc_location=ufi
They hate us!
 
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Mondraker

Well-Known Member
This really isn’t the point.

It boils down to the fact that we can’t sing it. End of
That's what I'm getting at though. To help the club and fans, they need to explain their reasoning and just saying its a derogatory religious word doesnt wash because celtic support displayed a banner with it.

As I've said on other posts. They have to explain because it's the only way people move forward. Targeting one group only hardens that group against everyone else.
 

hammer-time

Well-Known Member
Other clubs have been fined for "illicit" chants including the scum (IRA, I think), Man U ( Hillsborough) and Liverpool ( Munich air crash). I would like to see the club seek clarification as to why these particular chants are not dealt with in a similar manner. One about an organisation that has murdered thousands of innocents, another about the deaths of football supporters and the other about the deaths of footballers themselves.

Thats what Im asking
 

roscof

Well-Known Member
Since Friday there have been no end of posts in a multitude of threads calling out the club or the board for appeasement, lack of leadership or not defending the fans.

The reality is they can't. There are certain things you can't defend publicly and come out looking good. Does anyone think the club saying "they're just as bad" or "it's not really racist, it's just sectarian" or "you're racism police are bigots" is actually going to help? Because those are the 3 defenses the board is being taken to task for not making.

Also, remember this isn't a dialogue. It isn't even a trial. Once it's been highlighted this is a sentencing hearing. When UEFA say we're going to close the ground or expel you from the competition, all the club can do in mitigation is try to comply with the rules and say they're working on it.

UEFA are an organisation which cares little for football and nothing for reason or fairness. They care about money and corporate sponsorship. Corporate sponsors don't like even a whiff of organisations like FARE screaming the R word. As much as we might think it's untrue or biased, it doesn't matter.

In the end any sort of mixed message is going to get us expelled from UEFA competition. It's a serious threat and it's happened before. I'm guessing plenty of the support nowadays have forgotten we never got to defend our one European trophy and it hurt.

There are folk in our support who took all those warnings about FARE, Dave King's appeal on the pitch, the Everyone Anyone campaign, the Follow with Pride broadcasts on the screens before every game, and decided nobody really told them they couldn't sing any damn thing they want. That somehow they were getting a nod and a wink to FTP it up. They're still pleading ignorance. That isn't going to cut it as a defence. They really need it spelled out very simply and clearly - no more. Any sort of mixed message and those folk will take that as a go ahead to get us punished again - there's a point where pleading ignorance and victimisation is just whining.

I think we need to take a step back. Do we want the club to defend this?

Some of our songs are frankly embarassing. Take UEFA out of the equation. Why does anyone want to sign FTP at a football match? It doesn't matter whether it's racist, it's plainly got nothing to do with football and doesn't exactly attract new fans. I'm not exactly the world's most pc person as my previous bans and closed accounts testify, but I cringe at some of the song book.

The default mentality of many seems to be fight because this is coming from the club's enemies. We should be looking at the effect it has on the club's friends. When they're embarrassed maybe we should take the hint. We should think more about the message rather than the messenger.

The aim of every song at the football should be to get the whole ground singing to encourage the team. There was a time when songs like the Billy Boys did that, but it doesn't any more. Times change, and the song book needs to evolve to survive. That's life - literally. There are plenty of fans who find it an embarassing anachronism. The best singalongs now are ESWF because the whole stadium can join in even if you came with your granny or your kids.
 
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