RMT taking strike action - majority of trains across Scotland cancelled tomorrow

luckywhitefeather

Well-Known Member
Strikes been on for months but no one has the will to sort it.
Shit for the people affected tomorrow

this period of covid / less people on trains to be affected was perfect time for facing down the unions and bring forward autonomous driving trains across the network /and reframe the role of the conductor to focus on tickets / passengers / not door opening / closing as the unions have been holding the general public to ransom with the trains for years
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
I believe it's being forced to work overtime on Sundays, hence the Sunday strikes. Stand to be corrected though.

My understanding is there was agreements made that the various different roles would receive an increased premium on their OT rate for working on Sundays. The drivers got theirs, then covid happened and the rest of the roles have been told they won't be getting theirs. It's technically not a strike, just not doing OT.

The government won't budge on giving them the agreed raise and neither will the unions.

Under the circumstances can see both points of view

Whats really ridiculous about it though is that the main rail operator in the country relies on OT to run a Sunday service.
 

irnbruchew

Active Member
Shit for the people affected tomorrow

this period of covid / less people on trains to be affected was perfect time for facing down the unions and bring forward autonomous driving trains across the network /and reframe the role of the conductor to focus on tickets / passengers / not door opening / closing as the unions have been holding the general public to ransom with the trains for years
Ok, as my wife is a conductor, I’ll bite.

In a round of strikes about 4/5 years ago, when there was a move to lower the importance of the role of a conductor, it was Abellio’s insistence that they would ensure there were always two members of staff on a train (minimum) for any journey. Indeed, they did so saying that there were many services that travel without a conductor in Scotland so what would be the difference. True - but those services tend to be low level trains, stopping every couple of minutes and not getting up major speeds. Not travelling at 100mph plus and putting non safety critical trained staff in carriages to assist anyone injured or otherwise.

Also, re the doors comment you make…
6 years or so ago, my wife working a train. Someone runs to make the train. She holds it for them. As they approach the train, they slip, catch their leg between the train and platform and end up with a pretty gory and gruesome injury (I’ll spare details). Immediately the train is held, and ambulance etc are called whilst everyone else on train is informed of what’s happened by a person trained to do so. Now imagine that scenario where ‘doors’ are checked remotely from inside the driver’s cab (who has enough to do and concentrate on), looks and thinks that person running for the train made it on ok. Closes the doors. And drives off. Actually, let’s not imagine it.

The attempt to cause division by blaming the staff is pretty blatant. I’d hope people would see through it.
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
My understanding is there was agreements made that the various different roles would receive an increased premium on their OT rate for working on Sundays. The drivers got theirs, then covid happened and the rest of the roles have been told they won't be getting theirs. It's technically not a strike, just not doing OT.

The government won't budge on giving them the agreed raise and neither will the unions.

Under the circumstances can see both points of view

Whats really ridiculous about it though is that the main rail operator in the country relies on OT to run a Sunday service.

Spot on. Sunday is mandatory overtime. What other industry operates on that basis? Almost certainly none. A full day of work essentially subject to workers goodwill
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
I never knew that what they done. It’s 2021 and they’re relying on people doing voluntary overtime to keep the country moving?

Its all really old protected terms and conditions from when Sunday was a traditional rest day.

Again I admire the strength of the union in keeper good terms for its members, however its also 2021.

They would probably strike properly if people were employed to just work Sundays, plus given the volume of staff required and training training timescales and costs it would likely be a non starter anyway.

Modernisation coming across the entire UK rail network though so things will change.
 

Henry Hill

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
My understanding is there was agreements made that the various different roles would receive an increased premium on their OT rate for working on Sundays. The drivers got theirs, then covid happened and the rest of the roles have been told they won't be getting theirs. It's technically not a strike, just not doing OT.

The government won't budge on giving them the agreed raise and neither will the unions.

Under the circumstances can see both points of view

Whats really ridiculous about it though is that the main rail operator in the country relies on OT to run a Sunday service.
Almost all train companies do
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
Ok, as my wife is a conductor, I’ll bite.

In a round of strikes about 4/5 years ago, when there was a move to lower the importance of the role of a conductor, it was Abellio’s insistence that they would ensure there were always two members of staff on a train (minimum) for any journey. Indeed, they did so saying that there were many services that travel without a conductor in Scotland so what would be the difference. True - but those services tend to be low level trains, stopping every couple of minutes and not getting up major speeds. Not travelling at 100mph plus and putting non safety critical trained staff in carriages to assist anyone injured or otherwise.

Also, re the doors comment you make…
6 years or so ago, my wife working a train. Someone runs to make the train. She holds it for them. As they approach the train, they slip, catch their leg between the train and platform and end up with a pretty gory and gruesome injury (I’ll spare details). Immediately the train is held, and ambulance etc are called whilst everyone else on train is informed of what’s happened by a person trained to do so. Now imagine that scenario where ‘doors’ are checked remotely from inside the driver’s cab (who has enough to do and concentrate on), looks and thinks that person running for the train made it on ok. Closes the doors. And drives off. Actually, let’s not imagine it.

The attempt to cause division by blaming the staff is pretty blatant. I’d hope people would see through it.
Im a driver. My perspective is different. However the way weve been split is disgusting. ASLEF deliberately took a pay deal that isolated our colleagues in the RMT. By seperation of pay bargaining from March to October. Sympathise mate
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
Its all really old protected terms and conditions from when Sunday was a traditional rest day.

Again I admire the strength of the union in keeper good terms for its members, however its also 2021.

They would probably strike properly if people were employed to just work Sundays, plus given the volume of staff required and training training timescales and costs it would likely be a non starter anyway.

Modernisation coming across the entire UK rail network though so things will change.

Some things need to change sadly, id like to see a modernisation of the TE role into a more safety critical role with better pay
 

irnbruchew

Active Member
Im a driver. My perspective is different. However the way weve been split is disgusting. ASLEF deliberately took a pay deal that isolated our colleagues in the RMT. By seperation of pay bargaining from March to October. Sympathise mate
The Drivers have been placed in a helluva awkward position, but nobody resents you guys the pay deal secured just before the pandemic hit. Indeed, it’s why the RMT members rejected strike action to protest the conductors not getting the matching one last spring. Many felt they were very lucky to have a job, and that’s why it failed.
The attempts to further sew division by scotrail are pretty poor this time though, politicising twitter statements etc.

As Stonehaven showed last year, you guys more than earn your money. Still shudder at that.
 

Gardy Loyal

Well-Known Member
While ignoring the arguments arising, we parked in the Albion today with no issues, about 20 mins before kick off.

May help anyone getting there early enough tomorrow, there was no one checking passes or anything.

Looks like it could be bedlam tomorrow though, going by this thread :D
 
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Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
The Drivers have been placed in a helluva awkward position, but nobody resents you guys the pay deal secured just before the pandemic hit. Indeed, it’s why the RMT members rejected strike action to protest the conductors not getting the matching one last spring. Many felt they were very lucky to have a job, and that’s why it failed.
The attempts to further sew division by scotrail are pretty poor this time though, politicising twitter statements etc.

As Stonehaven showed last year, you guys more than earn your money. Still shudder at that.

Your wife is correct though. They deserve pay linked to ours. Its frustrating i totally get it. All id say is some issues we face others can never understand. Thats no excuse for degradation of pay for other grades. I certainly stand in solidarity with your wife. Though i do feel sometimes the RMT miss the bigger picture when it comes to our role. Thats not essentially a criticism just advice. We all work better together without a shadow of doubt
 

EC54

Well-Known Member
OH NO o_O no another Scotrail/ railway bashing thread we only had one through the week. Listen nothing is ever going to change you are going to be waiting on late/ cancelled trains for the rest of your lives that's the way it is on the UK railways, if you don't like it or accept it use another mode of transport;)
 

CoplandKeklord

Well-Known Member
OH NO o_O no another Scotrail/ railway bashing thread we only had one through the week. Listen nothing is ever going to change you are going to be waiting on late/ cancelled trains for the rest of your lives that's the way it is on the UK railways, if you don't like it or accept it use another mode of transport;)

What an attitude to have. No wonder this country lags so far behind the likes of the Netherlands et al when it comes to public transport.

Automation will sort out some of these issues hopefully, at least on the Subway.
 

irnbruchew

Active Member
Your wife is correct though. They deserve pay linked to ours. Its frustrating i totally get it. All id say is some issues we face others can never understand. Thats no excuse for degradation of pay for other grades. I certainly stand in solidarity with your wife. Though i do feel sometimes the RMT miss the bigger picture when it comes to our role. Thats not essentially a criticism just advice. We all work better together without a shadow of doubt
For a bit of clarity, I should say she voted not to strike last year. Aware of the perception of striking in a pandemic and also with the good fortune to have a job when many lost theirs (my own industry thrown into chaos).
But your last point stands. And genuinely, she stands with you guys too. The pressure and scrutiny you guys are under is crazy. Friend of ours was actually ‘downgraded’ to conductor and felt a weight off his shoulders in the stress released. Not that conductor is easy of course. Still dealing with the public etc.

good luck to you guys. It shouldn’t be this hard.
 

Leopold

Well-Known Member
Im a driver. My perspective is different. However the way weve been split is disgusting. ASLEF deliberately took a pay deal that isolated our colleagues in the RMT. By seperation of pay bargaining from March to October. Sympathise mate
You guys hold all the cards and other workers just want something close to parity. It’s refreshing to see a Driver sympathise :))
 

irnbruchew

Active Member
What an attitude to have. No wonder this country lags so far behind the likes of the Netherlands et al when it comes to public transport.

Automation will sort out some of these issues hopefully.
True. And we can all be paid to watch that the robots do their jobs properly. Thereby ensuring that we don’t lose any money individually and the companies in charge of a publicly subsidised franchise don’t automatically get a free hit at cash whilst jettisoning staff left right and centre. Aye, let’s do that. :)
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
You guys hold all the cards and other workers just want something close to parity. It’s refreshing to see a Driver sympathise :))

We do. Ones of the few unions left with power, but, even as an admitted tory. Il never abandon my colleagues. They deserve parity mate. Il never not defend them. I withdrew from voluntary Sunday work last week
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
For a bit of clarity, I should say she voted not to strike last year. Aware of the perception of striking in a pandemic and also with the good fortune to have a job when many lost theirs (my own industry thrown into chaos).
But your last point stands. And genuinely, she stands with you guys too. The pressure and scrutiny you guys are under is crazy. Friend of ours was actually ‘downgraded’ to conductor and felt a weight off his shoulders in the stress released. Not that conductor is easy of course. Still dealing with the public etc.

good luck to you guys. It shouldn’t be this hard.
Its so difficult for your wife. The RMT knocked back a tremendous deal, to get parity. Scotrail rejected and i feel the union went uber militant, but, that said. Il still support my colleagues, including your wife mate. Dont worry about that
 

CoplandKeklord

Well-Known Member
True. And we can all be paid to watch that the robots do their jobs properly. Thereby ensuring that we don’t lose any money individually and the companies in charge of a publicly subsidised franchise don’t automatically get a free hit at cash whilst jettisoning staff left right and centre. Aye, let’s do that. :)

If that works for you it works for me.

It would just be nice to have a transport infrastructure that has extensive services levels like a modern country is actually supposed to have, rather than scrambling about on a Sunday having a logistical nightmare because of shop floor politics.
 

luckywhitefeather

Well-Known Member
Ok, as my wife is a conductor, I’ll bite.

In a round of strikes about 4/5 years ago, when there was a move to lower the importance of the role of a conductor, it was Abellio’s insistence that they would ensure there were always two members of staff on a train (minimum) for any journey. Indeed, they did so saying that there were many services that travel without a conductor in Scotland so what would be the difference. True - but those services tend to be low level trains, stopping every couple of minutes and not getting up major speeds. Not travelling at 100mph plus and putting non safety critical trained staff in carriages to assist anyone injured or otherwise.

Also, re the doors comment you make…
6 years or so ago, my wife working a train. Someone runs to make the train. She holds it for them. As they approach the train, they slip, catch their leg between the train and platform and end up with a pretty gory and gruesome injury (I’ll spare details). Immediately the train is held, and ambulance etc are called whilst everyone else on train is informed of what’s happened by a person trained to do so. Now imagine that scenario where ‘doors’ are checked remotely from inside the driver’s cab (who has enough to do and concentrate on), looks and thinks that person running for the train made it on ok. Closes the doors. And drives off. Actually, let’s not imagine it.

The attempt to cause division by blaming the staff is pretty blatant. I’d hope people would see through it.
It’s unfortunate for your personal circumstances but eventually all trains will be driverless & have no conductors

the technology, removal of human error / wages (& not having to deal with unions) will speed that up

each strike just quickens that happening gives the political capital to make it happen as general public just want the trains to run
 

EC54

Well-Known Member
What an attitude to have. No wonder this country lags so far behind the likes of the Netherlands et al when it comes to public transport.

Automation will sort out some of these issues hopefully.
Nothing to do with attitude Coplandakeklord, too many posters are utterly clueless regarding how railway's work in this country and the antiquated system we work under. Automation What do you
you mean ? Surely not main line in the UK never in your lifetime and I don't even need to ask your age..
 

EC54

Well-Known Member
It’s unfortunate for your personal circumstances but eventually all trains will be driverless & have no conductors

the technology, removal of human error / wages (& not having to deal with unions) will speed that up

each strike just quickens that happening gives the political capital to make it happen as general public just want the trains to run
"But eventually all trains will be driverless & have no conductors"
What century are we talking here :D
 
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Leopold

Well-Known Member
We do. Ones of the few unions left with power, but, even as an admitted tory. Il never abandon my colleagues. They deserve parity mate. Il never not defend them. I withdrew from voluntary Sunday work last week
Fair play mate. We (engineers) ended up getting advanced payments for rest day working and their response was to stop giving us overtime and limping on regardless. Haven’t had a sniff of ham for 2 years.
 

Leopold

Well-Known Member
It’s unfortunate for your personal circumstances but eventually all trains will be driverless & have no conductors

the technology, removal of human error / wages (& not having to deal with unions) will speed that up

each strike just quickens that happening gives the political capital to make it happen as general public just want the trains to run
Refusing to work overtime isn’t a strike
 

Hurricane Run

Well-Known Member
Fair play mate. We (engineers) ended up getting advanced payments for rest day working and their response was to stop giving us overtime and limping on regardless. Haven’t had a sniff of ham for 2 years.

Typical. They use us cause they know by and large we keep the railway going (in a strictly A to B sense) some of my colleagues. You included are being shafted royally. Im not taking a part of it anymore mate. If we all pull out, hopefully you guys get a settlement
 
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