Rugby officials v football officials.
- Thread starter Cambuslangger
- Start date
Anony Mouse
Well-Known Member
They say, rugby is a gentleman's game, with what's said or done on pitch stays there.
As for mic up refs, aren't they already mic'd up with each other, wouldn't take much to link to stadium facilities
As for mic up refs, aren't they already mic'd up with each other, wouldn't take much to link to stadium facilities
Scoot
Well-Known Member
Wayne Barnes and Jonathon Davies never played the game at a high level. I think the standard of refereeing in rugby union is very good although i have seen some stinking decisions.
The biggest thing I wish that would transfer from rugby to football is the lack of playing acting. Can always remember the famous incident where Stuart Hogg was called out by the ref for going down easilty and told if he wanted to dive like that he should come back in a couple of weeks time (when the fitba was on)
You must’ve missed the tries wrongly disallowed and those wrongly given, if you are indeed a coach and you think the standard of officiating has been good then that is worrying, I’m not a coach but I did play at a very decent level for a long time.
Today’s Rugby Refs are fast tracked like Football, most are very inexperienced, especially of forward play.
If you turn a free kick into a penalty if any back chat, you'd son get the respect.
But equally, mic up the ref to openly explain decisions
But equally, mic up the ref to openly explain decisions
Stewmelbill
Well-Known Member
Football would end as a game if they got rugby refs to run it.
The whole 'respect the referee' thing would lead to swathes of lippy wee neds getting sent off.
If they then added the culture of not pretending to be hurt, that would lead to another wave of yellow cards for simulation.
Once you have either played football at any level or watched any rugby, you know how players act when they are actually injured (clue: they tend not to writhe around on the ground or clutch body parts unrelated to the area that took the hit. When you are actually hurt, you STAY hurt).
The whole 'respect the referee' thing would lead to swathes of lippy wee neds getting sent off.
If they then added the culture of not pretending to be hurt, that would lead to another wave of yellow cards for simulation.
Once you have either played football at any level or watched any rugby, you know how players act when they are actually injured (clue: they tend not to writhe around on the ground or clutch body parts unrelated to the area that took the hit. When you are actually hurt, you STAY hurt).
Bearskin
Well-Known Member
I've long since thought football should introduce the sin bin. Would stop the constant back chat, so called gamesmanship of trying to influence the ref into decisions. That doesn't help things with our refs.
Imagine trying to do your work with 4 or 5 guys round every few minutes shouting rubbish at you to try and change the outcome.
Imagine trying to do your work with 4 or 5 guys round every few minutes shouting rubbish at you to try and change the outcome.
nemessis
Well-Known Member
I've been saying that for a long time the ONLY reason they would not do it would be because they have things that they must cover up, give us honesty and transparency with no skulduggery and secret panels.
NHAMPTON_BEAR
Well-Known Member
Spot on sir.
TheEgg
Well-Known Member
The respect shown to Refs is drummed into kids from the minute they pick up a rugby ball.
Rugby clubs do loads of initiatives to keep the message ingrained in players all they way through to senior rugby.
one of the first things I taught my squad when they started at P3 (now P7) was if they moan or shout at the ref about a decision they would be off the park.
football thrives on drama, shouting at refs, rolling on the floor and pretending to be injured, you cant stop that now without giving out straight reds.
no one would be willing to go through the transition period as youd be getting multiple guys sent off for the first few months each game
Rugby clubs do loads of initiatives to keep the message ingrained in players all they way through to senior rugby.
one of the first things I taught my squad when they started at P3 (now P7) was if they moan or shout at the ref about a decision they would be off the park.
football thrives on drama, shouting at refs, rolling on the floor and pretending to be injured, you cant stop that now without giving out straight reds.
no one would be willing to go through the transition period as youd be getting multiple guys sent off for the first few months each game
JCDarcheville
Well-Known Member
As said above, mic the refs up, make them accountable for their decisions, it will lead to better clarity.
Taffyblue
Well-Known Member
Sorry, you’re wrong there.
If you watch the footage again, this was a centre-field penalty. Farrell had gathered his players for a chat about their continuous infringements, as directed by the referee. When they broke, the left side of England’s defence was in place and ready, the right hand side were too slow to set up. Dan Biggar had spotted this and played a blinder by asking the ref if the time was back on and took advantage.
Farrell can bitch as much as he wants - but there’s youtube footage of him doing exactly the same thing at club level so he knows the score.
The other controversial try in that game was more of an issue imo. As far as I’m concerned the Welsh player lost control of the ball and it should have been a knock on. But, by the laws of the game, it wasn’t because the ball hadn’t touched the ground. The ref was correct, just didn’t seem right.
I remember losing my rag at the ref once and lost my team 40m. I wasn’t popular in the dressing room that day.
Libertonchaz
Well-Known Member
Always thought Football could learn from Rugby in a lot of ways. Respect for refs is a starter.
Bluetou
Well-Known Member
France scored a try, the ref gives it then the TMO looks at an incident just before the try and you can see a French player has grabbed the Welsh guy up round about the eye socket, straight red card and try dissalowed. The ref and TMO were very calm and dealt with it brilliantly.
Cambuslangger
Well-Known Member
Look at our citing system. Both Ajeti and Taylor recent penalties were deemed acceptable. I suppose there is the root of the problem. Our governing bodies are not fit for purpose.
Cambuslangger
Well-Known Member
But we shouldn’t accept this. It’s that simple.
I’ve been reffing for about a year and a half since I stopped playing albeit it’s been a bit interrupted over the last year.
On dissent there’s a bit of a line I think with the players. %^*& sake ref or fucking hell ref or what the %^*& ref I have no issue with but as soon as someone starts with you’re a fucking this or that or if it’s something directed at me personally they will be off the park. You don’t have a fucking clue ref is a yellow. Your a fucking prick ref is a straight red for me.
I do quite a lot of youth games and in the club academies the parents are fine because the clubs make it’s clear that it’s not acceptable however in the boys clubs they can be challenging. If the parents get too much I will go over to whoever is in charge of the team and tell him that as he’s in charge if it doesn’t stop next time he (the coach) will be cautioned and if it continues he will be sent off. That usually works.
On dissent there’s a bit of a line I think with the players. %^*& sake ref or fucking hell ref or what the %^*& ref I have no issue with but as soon as someone starts with you’re a fucking this or that or if it’s something directed at me personally they will be off the park. You don’t have a fucking clue ref is a yellow. Your a fucking prick ref is a straight red for me.
I do quite a lot of youth games and in the club academies the parents are fine because the clubs make it’s clear that it’s not acceptable however in the boys clubs they can be challenging. If the parents get too much I will go over to whoever is in charge of the team and tell him that as he’s in charge if it doesn’t stop next time he (the coach) will be cautioned and if it continues he will be sent off. That usually works.
TheEgg
Well-Known Member
the refs fair game once hes out of his kit mate hahaI spend my entire time watching rugby whinging at the referees, they're definitely not perfect. The players may accept the decisions but it doesn't mean they respect them! Alex Dunbar called one a dickhead in the clubhouse after one Warriors game.
aslong as we respect him for the 80mins
Mackania
Well-Known Member
Haha, it wasn't to the refs face. He'd been yellow carded with five minutes to go, I couldn't see it properly but I completely agreed with Dunbar.
I agree though, if you can get to a place where players accept decisions it would make a difference. To do that they need help though, it's hard to take when you watch Morelos being booked when fouled just because the referee doesn't like the way he frowns a lot.
bear wi nae hair
Well-Known Member
been happening for years though mate. 30 years ago I was at uni with Tommy Craig’s daughter and my big mate was in the rugby team. He and Tommy were having a big debate about exactly this issue.
my other half lives rugby but watched Rangers with me and she always comments on it too. However, it’s a 2 way street. You’ll just as often see a footballer politely ask why a decision was made and he’s told to go away like a little child.
micing up the ref would be a good start but both sides would need to relearn how to communicate with each other.
The Baron of Renfrew
Well-Known Member
Agree watched this egg chasing game as well and the ref was interacting and explaining every decision and no back chat either from the players, even told big Jones the captain to sort it out or more would be going off as well. Any decision that required a review was sorted in a few seconds as well
Blaze Of Glory
Well-Known Member
It all starts with mutual respect and consistency across all levels. Imagine starting a kid's football team and preaching "rugby values" to them with regards to respecting the ref's decisions. The kids would follow this in training then not know what hit them every time they play a different team. This, along with what they'd watch on TV would soon impact their behaviour.
Mondraker
Well-Known Member
Aren't walls moved back of there's any shit at free kicks?
Sin bin should be introduced for backchat.
Blaze Of Glory
Well-Known Member
Being party to these conversations also helps the fans understand the rules better. Imagine if every football fan actually knew the rules and what the ref is looking for!
Dumfriesbear
Well-Known Member
Simple, football wont copy rugby despite it being a good system. You dont see any dissent.
Dumfriesbear
Well-Known Member
They tried the 10 yards a few seasons ago in league cup matches but quickly dropped it.
Bangersbc
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Rugby refs act like teachers. They don't rush in to punish behaviour. They call the players over to them and calmly explain the offending players actions and the consequences of such. Back-chat can and will lead to overturned decisions and cards.
It's instilled in rugby players from the very beginning through school and club level. Football could learn a thing or two. Dissent is basically taught to kids in football when they watch professionals endlessly get away with it (unkess it's morelos).
Mondraker
Well-Known Member
Thought that but ever knew it was dropped.
Still say 5 to 10 minute sin bin for back chat...although the sad part is I couldn't trust the refs to implement.
Opalescent
Well-Known Member
By the laws of the game it WAS a knock-on. Rees-Zammit knocked the ball on and had to gain control of it before it hit the ground or another player. He didn't do that.
A very similar incident happened in the Ireland / England match yesterday which resulted in a disallowed try for Earls' fine finish from Sexton's cross field kick.
The Irish forward ran onto a pass failing to gather the ball, knocking it forward and then batting it backward over his head to Healey. It was given as a knock-on because he didn't regain control after knocking on and before it hit another player (Healey), or the ground (as in the RZ knock-on).
Correct decision.
That's how the would should have happened to when RZ knocked on.
I like this idea. It's at the stage now where commentators are judging the referee's decision by the reaction of the players. "He didn't make much of an appeal for a penalty there" etc. Surely it only matters what the referee thinks.
I also think some sort of sin bin type punishment could be a good deterrent for the cynical fouling that happens when a team has a promising attack. Just getting a yellow card isn't enough.
Dadosgotabrandnewbag
Member
Spot on, I think if you are blocking a free kick from being taken it should be carded or free kick moved on 10 meters.Also, in rugby union or rugby league, if you interfere with the ball or prevent the other team from playing on after the referee has blown for an infringement you are immediately penalised.
In football, interrupting play is normal now. Why is it so bad? Is it the referees being weak?
It’s a pain in the arse and wish it would stop.
Lance Uppercut
Well-Known Member
Easy to sort - mark where the free kick wall is to be and the taker can move any distance away from the wall and the goal. Backchat within 10 yards of the penalty box results in a penalty. The coaches will soon stamp it out.
I think it just seemed to die a death. I was speaking to a grade one ref in the pub a few years before it was introduced and brought it up in conversation. I asked what he thought about marching them back ten yards for disrespectful backchat like in rugby & he was dead against it for some reason.
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
The difference between the two sports is that the rugby rules are black and white whereas football rules have a lot more subjectivity to them.
I think rugby rules have evolved over the years to help the TMO get the correct decision. Football rules change yearly but never clarify anything and more often than not cause even more confusion.
For example, “There was contact” is used quite a lot to justify wrong/poor decisions in football when it’s not one of the laws of the game.
If VAR is going to come into football forever then to get the correct decisions 100% of the time, the rules need changed/rewritten to be black and white.
I think rugby rules have evolved over the years to help the TMO get the correct decision. Football rules change yearly but never clarify anything and more often than not cause even more confusion.
For example, “There was contact” is used quite a lot to justify wrong/poor decisions in football when it’s not one of the laws of the game.
If VAR is going to come into football forever then to get the correct decisions 100% of the time, the rules need changed/rewritten to be black and white.
Done similar myself
Taffyblue
Well-Known Member
When Zammit dropped the ball it went backwards. It hit his leg and was kicked forward as if he’d hacked it on - that was the ref & 4th officials interpretation anyway. Wasn’t a try for me as I thought he’d lost control.
Clementime
Well-Known Member
I watched a video some years back about Rugby referees and the level of respect they get from players.
What an eye opener it was, the players manners and respect towards the officials was exemplary, the tone, no backchat, waiting until the ref was done, before asking a question.
The feeling I get is there is a much higher level of respect back and forth, in rugby.
Football is riddled with complete pricks, present company excluded
What an eye opener it was, the players manners and respect towards the officials was exemplary, the tone, no backchat, waiting until the ref was done, before asking a question.
The feeling I get is there is a much higher level of respect back and forth, in rugby.
Football is riddled with complete pricks, present company excluded
Bear72
Well-Known Member
I remember my 1st Rugby game at amateur level. The ref made a decision against me which I thought he was wrong. With my football head on I said something along the lines of "ffs ref you're taking the piss". My coach did not let my feet touch the ground! Gave me an almighty bollocking about respect for the refs. It is a different culture but, I'd say rugby has got it right... (apart from when Aus knocked Sco out of the world cup quarter finals in 2015, that was a ref cock-up!)
Clementime
Well-Known Member
Fair point,but they should be professional enough to explain decisions as this no accountability is no use. Everyone else in the game is,so why aren't they.
Opalescent
Well-Known Member
He knocked it forward 1st before it went backwards. I posted earlier in the 6N about it.
Look at the situation with Ireland's disallowed try. It's the same.
Last edited:
dbear
Well-Known Member
I refereed a bit in rugby after getting injured so I couldn’t play; before my career took me away from it all.
I think the respect thing is a (good) hangover from the old class argument, rugby being for toffs and private schools, and it’s a behaviour that just continued. There has always been a zero tolerance towards backchat, although that’s relaxed in the professional era by a wee bit.
The threat of getting marched back 10 yards for backchat is also a substantial penalty in a game of fine margins, whereas 10 yards in football would mean bugger all.
ultimately, it’s learned behaviour from the age of 5+ and impossible to bring those levels of respect into football unless the kids have a firebreak from the shenanigans going on worldwide at the senior level on TV.
The fact kids playing rugby see the seniors treating the refs with respect (and that is mutual from the ref to the player in the most) makes it easier for them at grass roots to Behave in the same manner.
I think the respect thing is a (good) hangover from the old class argument, rugby being for toffs and private schools, and it’s a behaviour that just continued. There has always been a zero tolerance towards backchat, although that’s relaxed in the professional era by a wee bit.
The threat of getting marched back 10 yards for backchat is also a substantial penalty in a game of fine margins, whereas 10 yards in football would mean bugger all.
ultimately, it’s learned behaviour from the age of 5+ and impossible to bring those levels of respect into football unless the kids have a firebreak from the shenanigans going on worldwide at the senior level on TV.
The fact kids playing rugby see the seniors treating the refs with respect (and that is mutual from the ref to the player in the most) makes it easier for them at grass roots to Behave in the same manner.
Man on the post
Well-Known Member
Struggling to watch rugby, but one of the few games iv been too was impressed with the supporters getting access to refs mic.
Don't kbow if that's just a hospitality thing though?
Don't kbow if that's just a hospitality thing though?
Share this page
Latest posts
-
-
-
If you were offered a ticket in the Celtic end for the SCF, would you, could you?
- Latest: HighlandLoyal3036
-
