Sheyi Ojo to sign five-year deal at Liverpool before joining Rangers on loan

GLAGAZ said:
Morelos - £1 million bought us the leagues top scorer.
Arfield - Free and had a superb season
Davis - Free and dominated the midfield in every game once fit
Jack - Similar to Davis
Kamara - £50k a steal!
McGregor - Free
Tav - £200k and a fundamental part of our setup.
Kent - Loan and got young player of the year.

Etc etc. Our bargain basement shopping has been very successful overall and the model won’t change much. Where we have to spend, we will, ala Goldson but the majority of our signings from now on will not be multi-million pound purchases until we are back in the CL or have huge external investment.
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Have any of those players won us the league?

We need to forge a league and cup winning team.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
A winning one. That's all that matters.

I'd take 11 aliens on loan for next season if it guaranteed the title.

Accessing the CL windfall is critical to our future. Our revenues are miles below the mentally challengeds, our only way of competiting financially with them just now is selling assets and reinvesting.
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To me, a winning one needs a few players of genuine quality. This means a bit of cash sunk into them.

People keep referencing our current team as an example of successful loans / bosmans. Seem to forget this team hasn’t been capable of winning anything this season.
 
RFC97 said:
To me, a winning one needs a few players of genuine quality. This means a bit of cash sunk into them.

People keep referencing our current team as an example of successful loans / bosmans. Seem to forget this team hasn’t been capable of winning anything this season.
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All I've seen is people providing examples of loans and bosmans that have worked out well for us and been better value than others we've spent millions on. Nobody said anything about the current team being good enough to win anything, that's not the debate of the thread.

Not sure if you're deliberately misinterpreting here tbh.
 
RFC97 said:
Have any of those players won us the league?

We need to forge a league and cup winning team.
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Well, having these players and see them perform is one (major) thing when it comes to winning trophies and titles. Then you have inept referees, , plastic pitches, the brick-wall brigade of Scottish football and a streak of ill- / luck which all come into the equation.

Half a handful of results that were taken from us via dubious decisions or because this or that player`s blackout moment have cost us titles this season. No matter whom we sign, this can happen again and again.

That said, as I noted above, quite a few players we have right now and who will return are capable to deliver silverware. Some more experienced quality to fill out the ranks as well as adding something special wouldn`t go amiss.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
All I've seen is people providing examples of loans and bosmans that have worked out well for us and been better value than others we've spent millions on. Nobody said anything about the current team being good enough to win anything, that's not the debate of the thread.

Not sure if you're deliberately misinterpreting here tbh.
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You talked of a ‘winning’ transfer policy.

I’ve said that needs serious investment in the realm of 4/5m players. Others responded to me saying no, look at the loans/bosmans we’ve brought in who have been successful.

That argument fails because the current policy is not brought us a squad that is capable of winning anything.
 
Der Berliner said:
Well, having these players and see them perform is one (major) thing when it comes to winning trophies and titles. Then you have inept referees, , plastic pitches, the brick-wall brigade of Scottish football and a streak of ill- / luck which all come into the equation.

Half a handful of results that were taken from us via dubious decisions or because this or that player`s blackout moment have cost us titles this season. No matter whom we sign, this can happen again and again.

That said, as I noted above, quite a few players we have right now and who will return are capable to deliver silverware. Some more experienced quality to fill out the ranks as well as adding something special wouldn`t go amiss.
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I’m not disagreeing.

I just firmly believe about 2 player of proper quality should be brought in. I don’t expect us to go and sink 3m on a left back.

But in positions like CM and inside forward. I want investment.
 
RFC97 said:
I’m not disagreeing.

I just firmly believe about 2 player of proper quality should be brought in. I don’t expect us to go and sink 3m on a left back.

But in positions like CM and inside forward. I want investment.
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IMHO, Davis grew back to his usual self and best when given his chance and some game time. He could well have made an impact before he actually signed, but it was not to be. While I do not exactly disagree, we have to keep in mind that next season`s central midfield, as of now, reads:

Steven Davis
Ryan Jack
Glen Kamara
Graham Dorrans
Ross McCrorie
Jason Holt
Greg Docherty
Jordan Rossiter

Of those we know that Davis, Jack and Kamara do click. We have yet to see much of Dorrans as well as Rossiter, likewise, Docherty may grew into bigger boots with better players around him.
 
Bluebrox said:
That's the bottom line.

We HAVE to win trophies next season. No two ways about it - and the league has to be one of them.
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Yip. Our scattergun policy of last season was necessary to overhaul a terrible squad.

But it hasn’t been close to, and won’t ever be, close to winning the league.

That tells me we need change. That change should be bringing in a few quality players on key positions, with us dipping into our pockets to make it happen.
 
RFC97 said:
You talked of a ‘winning’ transfer policy.

I’ve said that needs serious investment in the realm of 4/5m players. Others responded to me saying no, look at the loans/bosmans we’ve brought in who have been successful.

That argument fails because the current policy is not brought us a squad that is capable of winning anything.
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Yet....

If you are unable to realise how big a gap was created between us and them during our demotion then you need to open your eyes. It was always going to be a long term job to win the title back outwith some sugar daddy coming into the club flinging 10s of millions at us.
 
Jaws II said:
So Arfield was playing as one of the wingers in that formation after Morelos dropped out due to suspension.
Why have the players spoke about the change in formation also?
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You can play 4-3-3 without wingers hugging the touchline. Which is what we have been playing.
 
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Drumchapel-Bear said:
Yet....

If you are unable to realise how big a gap was created between us and them during our demotion then you need to open your eyes. It was always going to be a long term job to win the title back outwith some sugar daddy coming into the club flinging 10s of millions at us.
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Look I’m not denying that.

We needed a squad overhaul during the summer - hence the scattergun approach.

This summer is the first of many in which we don’t. Instead we build on the current squad. Not with more bosmans and loans but with proper investment.
 
RFC97 said:
No we’ve been playing 4-3-2-1.
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It's still a form of 3 forwards you just don't have traditional wingers. Look at Liverpool, the play 3 up top but it's essentially 3 strikers. What we have done is just put our wide men closer in and focused play through the middle and use the full backs as width instead of constantly trying to look for crosses from out wide. So I'd say it's still 4-3-3, just a narrow one.
 
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People turning their noses up at this need to remember that Kent flopped in the championship and the bundesliga before coming to us
 
RFC97 said:
Yip. Our scattergun policy of last season was necessary to overhaul a terrible squad.

But it hasn’t been close to, and won’t ever be, close to winning the league.

That tells me we need change. That change should be bringing in a few quality players on key positions, with us dipping into our pockets to make it happen.
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Totally disagree. The gap was closed last year and we gave the filth 2 sound beatings at Ibrox.
We were unlucky last season and robbed by some cheating refs that cost us points and players for key games, but still just a couple of results away from a serious league challenge.
 
TexMexBear said:
Totally disagree. The gap was closed last year and we gave the filth 2 sound beatings at Ibrox.
We were unlucky last season and robbed by some cheating refs that cost us points and players for key games, but still just a couple of results away from a serious league challenge.
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You’ll probably get laughed at for this but the 2 Hibs away games and Dundee away were all drawn directly because of the referees

Decent officials and there’s the 9 point gap totally gone
 
RFC97 said:
Look I’m not denying that.

We needed a squad overhaul during the summer - hence the scattergun approach.

This summer is the first of many in which we don’t. Instead we build on the current squad. Not with more bosmans and loans but with proper investment.
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If we signed a bosman on a 3 year deal
On 50k a week, it would still be an investment. It would cost the club 7.5m over the course or his contract.
 
RFC97 said:
Look I’m not denying that.

We needed a squad overhaul during the summer - hence the scattergun approach.

This summer is the first of many in which we don’t. Instead we build on the current squad. Not with more bosmans and loans but with proper investment.
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What difference does it make if we bring in Bosmans or buy players (rhetorical question as the answer is no difference at all, except it saves us money) and we're very fortunate that in our position, and with Stevie Gs ties to Liverpool and England, we are able to bring in quality loans like Kent, from one of Europes strongest squads at the current time. I expect the same from Ojo, if he signs, which I hope he does!
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
If we signed a bosman on a 3 year deal
On 50k a week, it would still be an investment. It would cost the club 7.5m over the course or his contract.
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Correct. And because wage expenditure correlates much more strongly with league position than transfer expenditure, the chances are you'd get a better player than someone you spent £4m and £25k/week on.
 
RFC97 said:
Look I’m not denying that.

We needed a squad overhaul during the summer - hence the scattergun approach.

This summer is the first of many in which we don’t. Instead we build on the current squad. Not with more bosmans and loans but with proper investment.
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We’re going to have 10-15 players leaving in the summer.

Signings like Greg Stewart on a free make total sense, he’s a vast upgrade on any current squad player and it keeps the numbers at a healthy level.

Yes, we need to add serious quality but that doesn’t mean you have to neglect the overall squad
 
Necro said:
You’ll probably get laughed at for this but the 2 Hibs away games and Dundee away were all drawn directly because of the referees

Decent officials and there’s the 9 point gap totally gone
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No doubt about it. People state we need to be better, so that cheating refs and bad decisions that never appear to even themselves out don't matter, but the facts are that we are as good as they are, but not far enough in front to account for being cheated.
 
Speaking to a mate who is a Liverpool season ticket holder, he says Ojo is more talented than Kent and has more in his drawer and that little bit of something special to unlock defenses and beat multiple men. If he comes with the right mentality and application, which is something that was in doubt by Liverpool fans about Kent before he came to us, he could be fantastic.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
I think part of the worry is that you can never be certain of the motivation levels of loan players. How many loan players have we signed on loan who "got it" like Kent did? I think that's part of the reason there's such a clamour to get him back.
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Exactly this. There is no way of knowing for sure until you see how they respond when things are going against us. Ejaria had loads of talent but you need that ‘desire’ and fight in your make up to compliment the talent. Kent had it . It’s not just loan players who can turn out not to have it though. I am pretty excited by Ojo. Derek Johnstone raved about him. Hopefully he’ll have a bit of heart too. At Rangers you need this refusal to accept defeat and to fight your corner.
 
Few comments from Liverpool forum.

He's got immense potential, much more than Kent but just seems unable to get his head right in order to consistently perform to the level he's capable of. He's incredibly fast and has a wand of a left foot. To me he's always seemed similar to Ibe, in that he's always been used to being head and shoulders above all his opponents as he progressed through the age groups and has really struggled since he's tried to perform against players with experience and know how. Exactly the same as Ibe, he often seems determined to receive the ball to feet, rather than making runs behind his fullback for the pass. It's this trait that held both players back at the club and is a tell tale sign of players who have always been used being able to receive the ball and then simply dribble past inferior opponents. Unlock this area of Ojo's game and there's an extremely dangerous attacker there. And that's without getting into the Ojo should be moulded into a centre mid discussion.

Ojo looked brilliant when he first came onto the scene and was getting gametime in the first team at the end of Klopp's first half a season (we were rotating heavily in the league while chasing the Europa League). His loan at Fulham was a disaster though, their fans really didn't like him and he was reduced to a backup after a promising start, although he did have a couple of injury spells that season which probably didn't help. I didn't watch him at Reims but they're not one of the stronger sides in Ligue 1 and he only started 2 league games for them having been there since September. As posted above he does have the potential to be a good player and I'll never forget that amazing goal he scored in the cup for us, but his last 2 loan spells have been incredibly underwhelming.

In terms of natural ability and attributes for me he’s a top 10 PL player and superior than the likes of Kent and Wilson. He’s a good athlete with pace, strength, height and athleticism. Good technique, left footed, can spot a pass, has skill and is a good finisher. I just don’t think he really believes in himself nearly as much as he should. If someone could light a fire in his belly and get him playing with his chest puffed out rather than with his chin in his chest he’d be a really good player. In all honesty, I don’t think he’d fancy playing on the shitty pitches in Scotland and getting lumps kicked out of him, but ability wise he's better than Kent.
 
sregnar said:
Few comments from Liverpool forum.

He's got immense potential, much more than Kent but just seems unable to get his head right in order to consistently perform to the level he's capable of. He's incredibly fast and has a wand of a left foot. To me he's always seemed similar to Ibe, in that he's always been used to being head and shoulders above all his opponents as he progressed through the age groups and has really struggled since he's tried to perform against players with experience and know how. Exactly the same as Ibe, he often seems determined to receive the ball to feet, rather than making runs behind his fullback for the pass. It's this trait that held both players back at the club and is a tell tale sign of players who have always been used being able to receive the ball and then simply dribble past inferior opponents. Unlock this area of Ojo's game and there's an extremely dangerous attacker there. And that's without getting into the Ojo should be moulded into a centre mid discussion.

Ojo looked brilliant when he first came onto the scene and was getting gametime in the first team at the end of Klopp's first half a season (we were rotating heavily in the league while chasing the Europa League). His loan at Fulham was a disaster though, their fans really didn't like him and he was reduced to a backup after a promising start, although he did have a couple of injury spells that season which probably didn't help. I didn't watch him at Reims but they're not one of the stronger sides in Ligue 1 and he only started 2 league games for them having been there since September. As posted above he does have the potential to be a good player and I'll never forget that amazing goal he scored in the cup for us, but his last 2 loan spells have been incredibly underwhelming.

In terms of natural ability and attributes for me he’s a top 10 PL player and superior than the likes of Kent and Wilson. He’s a good athlete with pace, strength, height and athleticism. Good technique, left footed, can spot a pass, has skill and is a good finisher. I just don’t think he really believes in himself nearly as much as he should. If someone could light a fire in his belly and get him playing with his chest puffed out rather than with his chin in his chest he’d be a really good player. In all honesty, I don’t think he’d fancy playing on the shitty pitches in Scotland and getting lumps kicked out of him, but ability wise he's better than Kent.
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I agree with the last two lines as it is a fact. We have some shitty pitches and he will get lumps kicked out of him due to the mindset of some Scottish players, a compliant media and weak and incompetent officials. We only have to look at Oduwa to see what can happen to a young kid playing up here.
 
sregnar said:
Few comments from Liverpool forum.

He's got immense potential, much more than Kent but just seems unable to get his head right in order to consistently perform to the level he's capable of. He's incredibly fast and has a wand of a left foot. To me he's always seemed similar to Ibe, in that he's always been used to being head and shoulders above all his opponents as he progressed through the age groups and has really struggled since he's tried to perform against players with experience and know how. Exactly the same as Ibe, he often seems determined to receive the ball to feet, rather than making runs behind his fullback for the pass. It's this trait that held both players back at the club and is a tell tale sign of players who have always been used being able to receive the ball and then simply dribble past inferior opponents. Unlock this area of Ojo's game and there's an extremely dangerous attacker there. And that's without getting into the Ojo should be moulded into a centre mid discussion.

Ojo looked brilliant when he first came onto the scene and was getting gametime in the first team at the end of Klopp's first half a season (we were rotating heavily in the league while chasing the Europa League). His loan at Fulham was a disaster though, their fans really didn't like him and he was reduced to a backup after a promising start, although he did have a couple of injury spells that season which probably didn't help. I didn't watch him at Reims but they're not one of the stronger sides in Ligue 1 and he only started 2 league games for them having been there since September. As posted above he does have the potential to be a good player and I'll never forget that amazing goal he scored in the cup for us, but his last 2 loan spells have been incredibly underwhelming.

In terms of natural ability and attributes for me he’s a top 10 PL player and superior than the likes of Kent and Wilson. He’s a good athlete with pace, strength, height and athleticism. Good technique, left footed, can spot a pass, has skill and is a good finisher. I just don’t think he really believes in himself nearly as much as he should. If someone could light a fire in his belly and get him playing with his chest puffed out rather than with his chin in his chest he’d be a really good player. In all honesty, I don’t think he’d fancy playing on the shitty pitches in Scotland and getting lumps kicked out of him, but ability wise he's better than Kent.
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Sounds like a lad who has a load of ability/talent under his bonnet but struggles to get it out on a regular basis and needs a kick start to get him going at times.

Hamilton/Killie/Livi etc. away on a cold November afternoon ?
 
Morelos2106 said:
You can argue the toss on how you define success, but I put him down as one because he is their first choice striker, he does produce and they'll be able to sell him for a decent fee.

But in any case, the casting of doubt on whether Edouard was worth the outlay proves my point.
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He doesn't produce anywhere near enough for a £9m player. Let's not be silly.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
It can or it can't Tazza.

All young athletes mature and develop at different speeds.

Compare Derek Johnstone at 16 to someone like Kai Kennedy for example.

Our development coaches will bring them along at the right pace.
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Guys like Johnstone have a better chance at that level due to their build.
I know the concept is wrong but it’s still the truth.
I “suffered” it.
I had the height but, in terms of physicality, I probably made Josh Windass look like an ox.
 
We have learnt over the years that is more about attitude and mentality than it is ability when signing a young loan player from a top club.

In that sense, none of us can have much of an opinion. It’s a gamble, Kent wouldn’t be. In that sense, it has to be regarded as a step down - but it was unlikely we would get Kent again anyway, or anyone who would close to guarantee the impact he has made this season.

I fear the same with Morelos.

Both will be incredibly difficult to replace.
 
Growler said:
We have learnt over the years that is more about attitude and mentality than it is ability when signing a young loan player from a top club.

In that sense, none of us can have much of an opinion. It’s a gamble, Kent wouldn’t be. In that sense, it has to be regarded as a step down - but it was unlikely we would get Kent again anyway, or anyone who would close to guarantee the impact he has made this season.

I fear the same with Morelos.

Both will be incredibly difficult to replace.
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Tav could also be an absolute nightmare to replace @Growler .

His goals and incredible assists stats aside, the fact that he is always available for selection, never injured or suspended, will make him a seriously hard act to follow.
 
Growler said:
We have learnt over the years that is more about attitude and mentality than it is ability when signing a young loan player from a top club.

In that sense, none of us can have much of an opinion. It’s a gamble, Kent wouldn’t be. In that sense, it has to be regarded as a step down - but it was unlikely we would get Kent again anyway, or anyone who would close to guarantee the impact he has made this season.

I fear the same with Morelos.

Both will be incredibly difficult to replace.
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I disagree mate.
We have Defoe and we looked a far better outfit. Kent saved his best for the poets, which was great but in terms of contribution over the course of a season I reckon Murphy will offer more.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Or do whatever we need to do to win the league?

Do you think Derby fans are furious about using Harry Wilson to make the play off final, as opposed to developing one of their own youngsters mate?
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Loans are fine in theory, but as the chap says our success rate with them has been utterly dreadful over the years.
Kent is definitely the exception to the rule, and even at that he’s been only good/decent not totally sensational as some would have you believe.
 
Graemelins said:
Loans are fine in theory, but as the chap says our success rate with them has been utterly dreadful over the years.
Kent is definitely the exception to the rule, and even at that he’s been only good/decent not totally sensational as some would have you believe.
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I was referring more to Gerrard's loan signings and also the fact why would you block a loan signing simply to develop and play an inferior young player of our own?

Who in their right mind deliberately weakens the strength of their first eleven simply to develop their own youth player over a superior loan signing?
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Tav could also be an absolute nightmare to replace @Growler .

His goals and incredible assists stats aside, the fact that he is always available for selection, never injured or suspended, will make him a seriously hard act to follow.
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Yep. Tav, McGregor, Morelos and Kent are the main 4. And we are going to have to replace 2 of them.

Can’t help but think we should have saved the Jones and Stewart wages to throw on top of whatever we budget to replace Kent, to make sure we get someone really special.

I know it’s incredibly early but Big Ade for Worrall, Jones and Stewart for Kent and Grezda, whoever locally for Foderingham and I’m starting to feel concerned most signings are downgrades. Lafferty and McAuley the only two left to be replaced. (And probably Morelos).

Unless we’re aiming for a huge squad, or even more are leaving.
 
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