Tackle on Harvey Elliot

Kingging

Well-Known Member
Looks to me like his foot getting caught in the turf was as much the cause of the break than anything. Remember Larsson breaking his leg when there was nobody near him because he caught his studs in the turf while running hard. I don't think the ref has any option but to issue a red in the circumstances but that looked a run of the mill tackle to me.
 

geo81

Member
Injury was unfortunate but a think those tackles should be red, your jumping in from behind the player who can't see you coming to even get out the way, a thought tackles from behind were a foul and at booking automatically anyway are they not?
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
He has went through the boy, hit his leg and broke it. How is that not excessive or endangering a player...

Its not the contact itself that breaks his leg, there’s no excessive force on Elliot. Football has changed enough already in respect of offering players extra protection. Any more and you really won’t be able to make a solid challenge anymore.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
100% not a red
Agree.
It was one of those really unfortunate things that happen on a football field.
There was no intent there to do anything other than win the ball.
Every so often players come together in nothing more than a sporting fashion but the gods of misfortune are up to mischief.
Football has a physical edge to it and occasionally accidents will happen.
I still maintain that Kemar Roofe should never have been banned for four matches for his collision with the mad Czech goalkeeper.
 

onelegwonder

Active Member
Its not the contact itself that breaks his leg, there’s no excessive force on Elliot. Football has changed enough already in respect of offering players extra protection. Any more and you really won’t be able to make a solid challenge anymore.
it is his scissor kick challenge that connects with the boys leg to snap it... or am i watching another clip from you

 

Greggy75

Well-Known Member
It's not about intent though.

If you go into a tackle with enough force to break someone's leg then IMO you're using excessive force and it's a red card.
What happens at a 50/50? Would you be happy to see one of our players pull out or go in half hearted?
 
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bilkobear

Well-Known Member
Its not the contact itself that breaks his leg, there’s no excessive force on Elliot. Football has changed enough already in respect of offering players extra protection. Any more and you really won’t be able to make a solid challenge anymore.
A St Johnstone player made a far more reckless challenge on Ryan Kent yesterday if truth be told.
Whereas the challenge today was made with the sole intent to win the ball cleanly.
I saw John Greig make a ton of challenges like that and I am proud to say I managed to make a few myself after being inspired by the Great Man.
 

Johansen

Well-Known Member
As others said - was never a red, just total bad luck with the way the guy caught him with his trailing leg. I actually thought it was a really good tackle at the time.

I quite like Klopp but he was being a dick there going tonto at folk. Sometimes players get hurt.
In the heat of the moment Klopp was upset over his young player being badly injured, put any manager in that type of situation the reaction would be the same.
 

Mollysblackcoat

Well-Known Member
Where does it end though? Morelos holds off a player, using his physique and turns the defender and the defender twists his knee....Morelos fault? Thats where this goes. The lad has taken a sore one today but it wasnt intentional, in fact Im sure the Leeds player will be in bits about it.
Why bring the Buff into it? Playing with my emotions!?
 

onelegwonder

Active Member
A St Johnstone player made a far more reckless challenge on Ryan Kent yesterday if truth be told.
Whereas the challenge today was made with the sole intent to win the ball cleanly.
I saw John Greig make a ton of challenges like that and I am proud to say I managed to make a few myself after being inspired by the Great Man.
The only time the Leeds player got the ball today was after he had broken the kids leg. I cannot understand anyone watching that clip thinks it was fair and not a red card...
 

Chester Loyal

Well-Known Member
Wasn't excessive imo. More unlucky for the young boy but the tackle wasn't bad in anyway for me.

Think it's best if we just agree to disagree mate.

Nah mate, not having that. Plenty have had leg breaks from hard but 100% fair tackles. Luck of the draw

What happens at a 50/50? Would you be happy to see one of our players pull out or go in half hearted?

If you're going into a tackle with enough force to break someone's leg in half than that's excessive force and endangering an opponent.
 

HelandersWhiteTuft

New Member
Official Ticketer
Horrible seeing a player getting injured like that. Have my doubts if the ref would’ve shown a red had Elliot not got injured though. Really unfortunate
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
it is his scissor kick challenge that connects with the boys leg to snap it... or am i watching another clip from you

No you’re watching the same clip and seeing something different from me. Its hard to see exactly what happens with only one angle and in real time, but after slowing it down I can say it’s not a scissor kick, trailing leg comes through (as it does in so many tackles) and as Elliot is still trying to run his leg becomes entangled with the players trailing leg.

Although it’s not easy to see on the footage, I’d bet it’s just the way he’s gone over after becoming entangled that’s caused the break, and NOT the actual impact of his leg striking Elliots leg. That’s what it looks like anyway. Maybe that’s why the ref didn’t even bother to award a foul first time round. I think if you had your way football would be a piece of piss for attackers (particularly those with decent ball control and a bit of pace) because defenders wouldn’t feel like they could ever go to ground in a challenge again, or that they could give anything more forceful than a shoulder challenge.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
The only time the Leeds player got the ball today was after he had broken the kids leg. I cannot understand anyone watching that clip thinks it was fair and not a red card...
I just looked at it again.
The only angle I have seen it in is the one on here, and I simply cannot see what is wrong with the challenge.
The only intent was to win the ball.
If we start getting hysterical about that kind of challenge, then it is time to pack our boots away because the game is finished as a physical encounter.

The fact that the player who was injured was young, a kid as you emotively mention, makes no difference to the fairness or unfairness of the challenge.
I have watched challenges like that in over six decades of football and usually, they remain unremarkable.
But in a physical sport, there is always the outside chance of an unfortunate injury from players coming together.

It is a shame for the lad though, and I wish him a speedy recovery.
 

Aortic

Active Member
It's a really poor angle to decide from.

It could be his studs got caught as the Leeds players leg comes through.

It could be he had a weakness and it was just a matter of time. It's not as if it was a 50/50 and the Leeds player has went over the top of the ball and put a straight leg in with the studs up.

It's unfortunate but not a red card. The fact the game was continuing until Salah screams for help says that the ref didn't even seem it a foul initially.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
That is terrible refereeing.
I haven’t watched replays but my reaction wasn’t “ooft that’s a horrible tackle” although I thought it was a free kick. It’s possible the ref heard the noise of the break and it threw him off tbf.
 

Bryanmc

Well-Known Member
If he’s not badly injured the referee doesn’t send him off

but to be honest it’s irrelevant as a young boy has took a massive injury so early in his career hope he’s back playing soon
 

onelegwonder

Active Member
No you’re watching the same clip and seeing something different from me. Its hard to see exactly what happens with only one angle and in real time, but after slowing it down I can say it’s not a scissor kick, trailing leg comes through (as it does in so many tackles) and as Elliot is still trying to run his leg becomes entangled with the players trailing leg.

Although it’s not easy to see on the footage, I’d bet it’s just the way he’s gone over after becoming entangled that’s caused the break, and NOT the actual impact of his leg striking Elliots leg. That’s what it looks like anyway. Maybe that’s why the ref didn’t even bother to award a foul first time round. I think if you had your way football would be a piece of piss for attackers (particularly those with decent ball control and a bit of pace) because defenders wouldn’t feel like they could ever go to ground in a challenge again, or that they could give anything more forceful than a shoulder challenge.
You bet? On the clip i posted you can see the challenge on the boys back leg that initiates the snap... The challenge was also from behind and one leg goes in before the other (scissor like).

We are going to need to agree to disagree on our thoughts on this challenge as having my leg snapped by similar i have bad feelings about it.
 

Tommy48

Well-Known Member
As others said - was never a red, just total bad luck with the way the guy caught him with his trailing leg. I actually thought it was a really good tackle at the time.

I quite like Klopp but he was being a dick there going tonto at folk. Sometimes players get hurt.
Klopp was going mental at the Leeds fans because of the abuse they were shouting at the young lad as he lay in agony.
 

Chester Loyal

Well-Known Member
I just looked at it again.
The only angle I have seen it in is the one on here, and I simply cannot see what is wrong with the challenge.
The only intent was to win the ball.
If we start getting hysterical about that kind of challenge, then it is time to pack our boots away because the game is finished as a physical encounter.

The fact that the player who was injured was young, a kid as you emotively mention, makes no difference to the fairness or unfairness of the challenge.
I have watched challenges like that in over six decades of football and usually, they remain unremarkable.
But in a physical sport, there is always the outside chance of an unfortunate injury from players coming together.

It is a shame for the lad though, and I wish him a speedy recovery.

It's not 1965 anymore mate. Intent doesn't matter.
 

Greggy75

Well-Known Member
I
Think it's best if we just agree to disagree mate.





If you're going into a tackle with enough force to break someone's leg in half than that's excessive force and endangering an opponent.
There’s a ball in between 2 players and they both swing a leg at it. Make contact with ball at same time and one snaps their leg. Are you sending the other player off?
 

onelegwonder

Active Member
I just looked at it again.
The only angle I have seen it in is the one on here, and I simply cannot see what is wrong with the challenge.
The only intent was to win the ball.
If we start getting hysterical about that kind of challenge, then it is time to pack our boots away because the game is finished as a physical encounter.

The fact that the player who was injured was young, a kid as you emotively mention, makes no difference to the fairness or unfairness of the challenge.
I have watched challenges like that in over six decades of football and usually, they remain unremarkable.
But in a physical sport, there is always the outside chance of an unfortunate injury from players coming together.

It is a shame for the lad though, and I wish him a speedy recovery.
The fact the player injured was young? It does not matter a jot what age the player is.. It was scissor challenge from behind, (guy i have just commented on said it was one leg after other but not scissor, %^*& me), the boy had no chance and from what i am seeing it is clear as day that the contact is what breaks his leg.. If that is not excessive then what in the hell is? Leg fully amputated in challenge?
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
Looks to me like his foot getting caught in the turf was as much the cause of the break than anything. Remember Larsson breaking his leg when there was nobody near him because he caught his studs in the turf while running hard. I don't think the ref has any option but to issue a red in the circumstances but that looked a run of the mill tackle to me.
My recollection is Larsson was running on the right side of an opponent who had the ball on the left wing, Larsson stamped down with his left leg, his calf, in front of the ball, to stop the runner. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred it works, the opponent is literally stopped in his tracks. This time his tibia and fibula snapped when the opponent made contact with the ball at speed.
Anyone else recall it?
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
You bet? On the clip i posted you can see the challenge on the boys back leg that initiates the snap... The challenge was also from behind and one leg goes in before the other (scissor like).

We are going to need to agree to disagree on our thoughts on this challenge as having my leg snapped by similar i have bad feelings about it.

You can’t possible tell from the available footage that it was the contact that resulted in the break and not the way he’s went over after their legs come together. But sure, we’ll agree to disagree.
 

Chester Loyal

Well-Known Member
Well they miss the ball and kick each other?

If they both go to kick the ball the way you'd hit a free kick or penalty (as an example), I don't think it's possible to generate enough force to snap someone's leg. If it did happen then I don't think it would be a red.

If they go over the top of the ball and catch the person on the shin stamping down then yes it's a red.
 

onelegwonder

Active Member
You can’t possible tell from the available footage that it was the contact that resulted in the break and not the way he’s went over after their legs come together. But sure, we’ll agree to disagree.
Cool mate.. I'm not wanting a fight on my first day back from not being here for many many years... :)
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
I always think that there is maybe a weakness in the break area before it’s happened. Some totally innocuous challenges end up with horrible breaks.
I
Wasn't excessive imo. More unlucky for the young boy but the tackle wasn't bad in anyway for me.
Agreed. You see umpteen tackles like that every weekend and hardly ever an injury. Timed poorly? Aye. Zero malice in that for me though. Just a horrific accident.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
The fact the player injured was young? It does not matter a jot what age the player is.. It was scissor challenge from behind, (guy i have just commented on said it was one leg after other but not scissor, %^*& me), the boy had no chance and from what i am seeing it is clear as day that the contact is what breaks his leg.. If that is not excessive then what in the hell is? Leg fully amputated in challenge?
Well, I would be making that challenge on the park any year you care to mention.
It wasn't two-footed and it wasn't a scissor-legged challenge either.
No matter how you square it, every player has two legs and when you challenge with the one you cannot exactly put the other one in your handbag.
Not yet anyway, even although it is 2021 and handbags seem to be all the rage.

By the way, you are the person who decided to mention the player's age to begin with, which given your post above is a tad ironic.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
Cool mate.. I'm not wanting a fight on my first day back from not being here for many many years... :)

Genuinely not trying to provoke you or be argumentative for the sake of it! It’s football, we all have different takes on different facets of the game and on different incidents. Even referees who are all supposed to be working from the same rule book, have different takes :)
 

nasalsinatra

Well-Known Member
Son of Tottenham made a similar challenge on Gomes of Everton two years ago and broke Gomes’s leg. He was red-carded but the FA downgraded that retrospectively to a yellow card.
 

sifter

Well-Known Member
Son of Tottenham made a similar challenge on Gomes of Everton two years ago and broke Gomes’s leg. He was red-carded but the FA downgraded that retrospectively to a yellow card.
Which is what should happen here. Especially when the red didn’t even give a foul
 

Tpol_rfc

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
As far as I'm concerned, and I don't want to see challenge again, any over physical challenge that leads to horrific injuries like this boy has just suffered should be red cards.
Don't see the sense in that. Surely every similar one should be red under that logic regardless of injury severity? Or do you keep letting people get away with it until there's a terrible injury? Surely that's just encouraging it?

For what it's worth it should have been a yellow card in my opinion regardless of the obvious unintentional consequences.
 
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