The Trophy Haul Head-To-Head

[ClockworkOrange]

I despaired for years at posters dismissing talk of their trophies as "tainted."

Firstly, it gave them a winning culture and a taste for winning that has still not abated.

Secondly, they've caught up with us. Their trophies are in the history books. You can talk of them being tainted all you want, but they're still there, in black and white.

 

[dh1963]

How can you have a "head-to-head" if one team isn't in the same competition?

The cups will obviously count, but the leagues will not.

It's not really a head to head though, it's national trophies. Numbers of league and Cups won is open to all clubs, not just us and them.
If you are Scottish champions, you're the best team in Scotland. If you win the Scottish Cup, you beat anyone you play in it.

Trying to wriggle out of what's happening is both daft and embarrassing.

 

[PT98]

Be a minor miracle if they haven't overtaken us by the end of next season.

 

[The GOAT]

It's not really a head to head though, it's national trophies. Numbers of league and Cups won is open to all clubs, not just us and them.
If you are Scottish champions, you're the best team in Scotland. If you win the Scottish Cup, you beat anyone you play in it.

Trying to wriggle out of what's happening is both daft and embarrassing.

In the context of this disucssion, it's clearly the head-to-head trophy haul between the two clubs.

They "won" 5 league titles when we were forced out of the league. On a purely logical level they cannot be counted. They obviously happened but they don't count for H2H between the clubs' sake.

 

[Angus Young]

Except they were in the same league as us in the 90s. Not our fault they were shite.

We were thrown out of the league by corruption and bigotry.

Does their league count in the season after we lost the playoff to Motherwell and failed to get promoted from the 2nd Division?

Was that a conspiracy too?

Have a bit of self respect for God's sake.

 

[dh1963]

In the context of this disucssion, it's clearly the head-to-head trophy haul between the two clubs.

They "won" 5 league titles when we were forced out of the league. On a purely logical level they cannot be counted. They obviously happened but they don't count for H2H between the clubs' sake.

It's just a total of how many national trophies we have ever won, compared to how many they have won. Loads of other teams have also won them, but far fewer than the 2 biggest clubs in the country.
You can try to hide under your comfort blanket, but all you're doing is denying reality.

As a comparison, down south they often do a "head to head" of league titles won by Liverpool and Manchester United. The numbers used are quite simply how many league titles each club has won. They have actually both won titles when the other team was in the second division, but that's irrelevant to it. And so it should be.

 

[Charing]

In the context of this disucssion, it's clearly the head-to-head trophy haul between the two clubs.

They "won" 5 league titles when we were forced out of the league. On a purely logical level they cannot be counted. They obviously happened but they don't count for H2H between the clubs' sake.

By that criteria if we won the penalty shoot-out in Seville they could discount it as they weren't in the competition.

 

[The GOAT]

By that criteria if we won the penalty shoot-out in Seville they could discount it as they weren't in the competition.

They were in the competiton. They just got knocked out of it.

 

[KensingtonBlue]

I don't know if you're being serious, but I wouldn't go that far.

Discounting leagues "won" if the other team isn't in the league is a perfectly valid point though.

The two pretty much go hand in hand, no? The only additional season which this brings into account is when we finished 3rd behind Aberdeen which for me was just as invalid as us being in the Championship because we essentially had a Championship squad with no chance of being competitive that year. But if they want it, fine, take it. The ones where we weren't there at all are obviously absurd

 

[The GOAT]

Does their league count in the season after we lost the playoff to Motherwell and failed to get promoted from the 2nd Division?

No.

 

[Ray Von]

Least they were in the league for all of our 90s titles

And they were about as much use in a title race as we were in the lower divisions for most of them.

Except they were in the same league as us in the 90s. Not our fault they were shite.

We were thrown out of the league by corruption and bigotry.

Aye, whatever.

 

[JC85]

It's inevitable now. The best we can hope for now is that it swings back and forward and they don't pull away. But there's no doubt 2012 has led to it, which was always going to be the case.

 

[Pioneer]

An awful lot of coping going on in here. They’ve caught us. We spend years peddling the most successful club patter and it’s came back and bitten us on the arse. It’s hard to take.

 

[douzpwa]

I can remember when we won trophy 100 in 2000 thinking they would never ever catch us in my life time.

Fucking horrific.

They got plenty of help and continue to do so which is why we need to find the money and bring in some quality but never forget the help they get!

 

[Charing]

They were in the competiton. They just got knocked out of it.

Well spotted!
Still, you're discounting European successes and keeping it National i suppose.

 

[DivRFC]

Well spotted!
Still, you're discounting European successes and keeping it National i suppose.

European success is nothing when the flip side is total failure domestically.

 

[Firetrap]

It's only up in Scotland that the line we are the worlds most successful club is mentioned , no one outside of their would know of this , so it's only relevant to them and us IF they overtake us, I would rather have say Real Madrids trophy haul ie all those Champs Leagues.

 

[DivRFC]

It's inevitable now. The best we can hope for now is that it swings back and forward and they don't pull away. But there's no doubt 2012 has led to it, which was always going to be the case.

2012 can’t be an excuse anymore. It stopped being one the moment we were confirmed Champions 3 years ago. 3 years of total mismanagement at all levels of the club has seen us throw the chance of our own period of success down the tubes and now we are likely going to watch them overtake our trophy count before the end of this year.

 

[TamS-RFC]

The relief we all had after 10iar was thwarted in style was huge.

Now this hangs over us. The Scottish Cup is an absolute must, it is unthinkable to go in to the summer on the back of losing two more trophies to these rat bastards.

 

[The Spaniard]

It's just a total of how many national trophies we have ever won, compared to how many they have won. Loads of other teams have also won them, but far fewer than the 2 biggest clubs in the country.
You can try to hide under your comfort blanket, but all you're doing is denying reality.

As a comparison, down south they often do a "head to head" of league titles won by Liverpool and Manchester United. The numbers used are quite simply how many league titles each club has won. They have actually both won titles when the other team was in the second division, but that's irrelevant to it. And so it should be.

Absolutely bang on.

 

[The Spaniard]

Except they were in the same league as us in the 90s. Not our fault they were shite.

We were thrown out of the league by corruption and bigotry.

Get a grip ffs. Actually embarrassing reading the nonsense you’re posting.

It’s about pure numbers.

 

[CaptainCourageous]

So it’s now 55 - 54 in our favour.

They win the Scottish Cup and they are level with us on trophies?

 

[Jelle1880]

So it’s now 55 - 54 in our favour.

They win the Scottish Cup and they are level with us on trophies?

Yes, we'll both be on 118 then

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

So it’s now 55 - 54 in our favour.

They win the Scottish Cup and they are level with us on trophies?

Yes.

 

[JDC76]

Our cup record has been unforgivable as well last 5 years. We had opportunities to pick up cups when they got put out and we failed to capitalise.

 

[CaptainCourageous]

Yes, we'll both be on 118 then

Just win the Scottish Cup.

 

[Papasmurf]

When I see those scum celebrating bogus trophies, it always reminds me of what the great Brian Clough said to his Leeds players crowing about what they'd " won " under Don Revie.

They won the trophies. Sadly that’s the bottom line.

The ‘ah but’ response doesn’t hold much water now let alone 10 years time.

As much as a good chunk of what they’ve won have been the result of a stitch op

 

[muttley]

They won the trophies. Sadly that’s the bottom line.

The ‘ah but’ response doesn’t hold much water now let alone 10 years time.

As much as a good chunk of what they’ve won have been the result of a stitch op

Sadly true, mate.

 

[Laudrup11Cooper]

Can we throw in war time trophies?

Oh, if only.
Poor departed Ian from Strathblane (I forget his moniker) wanted to start an online petition to support exactly this.We had a few discussions on this forum, which I fully supported.
But if the club doesn't even support this, what chance have you?

 

[SamEng]

Oh, if only.
Poor departed Ian from Strathblane (I forget his moniker) wanted to start an online petition to support exactly this.We had a few discussions on this forum, which I fully supported.
But if the club doesn't even support this, what chance have you?

The correct answer is winning more in the present.Clutching at straws.

 

[Laudrup11Cooper]

I agree.Nice idea.
Don't think our board can.
Our argument was the for the sake of the families. Of these players that still played for those trophies and won. Fair and square!
Yes I think straws might be the only prize we can look forward to winning, at the moment.

 

[bear wi nae hair]

I'm far from a Tav hater, but at the same time was quite confused at threads after 55 - 'where does Tav rank as greatest Rangers captain and so on'

But Celtic winning 16 trophies (and counting) to Rangers 2 whilst he has been at the club and captain for the majority of it, is a massive stick to beat him with and I don't think time is going to look kindly on this.

Of course at the start there was circumstances and so on, but from 20/21 the fact that to the present day they have won more trophies than us is completely unacceptable.

Not defending him but that’s just a ridiculous comparison. We’re skint and they’re rich (by comparison). They have a team filled with guys used to winning. We don’t. You cannot blame one player for that. You need to look at his contribution and performances with respect to the Clubs situation at the time.

Would you nod along while a celtic fan told you that ‘Broonie’ is their best ever captain as (I suppose?) he’s lifted more trophies than any other before him?

 

[UlsterW1llie]

Yes, I would extend it to any league they won where we didn't finish 2nd doesn't count as a title, at least in H2H standards

When the opponent didn't show up, you didn't win anything. You were awarded it by default. Zero glory, zero honour. That wipes out at least 10 of their 'titles'.

What a load of pish this is btw, do people not think things through before they construct themselves a comfort blanket.

I'm assuming this works both ways, in which case we've won the League 30 times and they've not finished 2nd, whilst they've won it 25 times with us not finishing 2nd.

So only 25 of our titles 'count' in this logic of yours, while 28 of theirs do. Soon to be 29.

Pity Hearts aren't within 5 points of us eh, we could've just lost the last two games and then let Hearts take 2nd and claim this one didn't count either.

Crackpots.

 

[BobbyShearer55-65]

I'm far from a Tav hater, but at the same time was quite confused at threads after 55 - 'where does Tav rank as greatest Rangers captain and so on'

But Celtic winning 16 trophies (and counting) to Rangers 2 whilst he has been at the club and captain for the majority of it, is a massive stick to beat him with and I don't think time is going to look kindly on this.

Of course at the start there was circumstances and so on, but from 20/21 the fact that to the present day they have won more trophies than us is completely unacceptable.

Aaron Mooy was at the Tramps for 18 months. He won more with them in that time, than Tav has in a decade with us.

 

[Boom Toon Bear]

This should be highlighted to the manager & more importantly players, in every press conference between now & the final.

We have been the most successful team in Scotland for over half a Century, the absolute minimum these players owe us & the club is maintaining that.

 

[Loud and proud]

Not worried, we will pull away once we sign Mcmann, Gogic and Baningime.

 

[spotlight]

Win that Cup. Just do it.
And whatever happens we go from here and build a team and look to the next 20 years and beyond. We will catch them and put that trophy number back where it should be.
Draw a line in the sand now and get on with it. A two horse race in this country. Win cups too and stop losing to the likes of Sheep and the Broon Spoon Brigade from Leith.
Fight back Rangers.

 

[Chapman billie]

Sod it - I'm counting the Challenge Cup. Won at Hampden in front of a capacity crowd with a wonder goal from Tav for good measure. That's major enough for me!

 

[Firetrap]

We should be out of sight as we’ve had a16 year start over them.

 

[VGM]

This should be highlighted to the manager & more importantly players, in every press conference between now & the final.

We have been the most successful team in Scotland for over half a Century, the absolute minimum these players owe us & the club is maintaining that.

Yes because this squad have shown they react well in the face of pressure and adversity…

 

[Bluestevo]

This should be highlighted to the manager & more importantly players, in every press conference between now & the final.

We have been the most successful team in Scotland for over half a Century, the absolute minimum these players owe us & the club is maintaining that.

Don’t expect anyone to be listening

 

[MartinS93]

The mental gymnastics in here are more imaginative than anything JK Rowling could conjur up and write down.

Their leagues between 12-16 very much 'count'. Absolute nonsense to go down that road, embarrassing actually.

 

[MrStruth]

Our cup record has been unforgivable as well last 5 years. We had opportunities to pick up cups when they got put out and we failed to capitalise.

For years we had Rangers fans saying the league Cup is a Diddy Cup and doesn't really matter.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

For years we had Rangers fans saying the league Cup is a Diddy Cup and doesn't really matter.

Yep, this is true.

What these guys failed to realise that 1. A trophy is a trophy and 2. It gives a team an appetite for success.

The same guys who dismissed the LC for years were also the same guys who enthusiastically celebrated us winning it this year.

 

[dh1963]

Aaron Mooy was at the Tramps for 18 months. He won more with them in that time, than Tav has in a decade with us.

Great attempt at a stat to have a kick at Tavernier, but not quite right.
Mooy was actually there for 1 season and they won the treble in it. But he missed the Scottish Cup final win.
So he has won 2 Scottish trophies, 1 less than Tavernier.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Yep, this is true.

What these guys failed to realise that 1. A trophy is a trophy and 2. It gives a team an appetite for success.

The same guys who dismissed the LC for years were also the same guys who enthusiastically celebrated us winning it this year.

If you look at our league cup record.winning the league cup was either the only trophy we won in lean times or a launch pad to further success.

 

[westl65]

The last time they were within 1 league title was back in 1929-30 puts it in perspective

 

[Calvinist]

This should be highlighted to the manager & more importantly players, in every press conference between now & the final.

We have been the most successful team in Scotland for over half a Century, the absolute minimum these players owe us & the club is maintaining that.

Too many of this squad don’t care or are so conditioned to failure it doesn’t register.

This should be highlighted to the board. Losing the Scottish cup sees them buying more signs saying “Joint most successful club”

Next season might see our boast rammed right down our throats, in fact you can guarantee it will. The board need to get this tight and run a broom right through the club.

Another shambolic collapse cannot be allowed to happen

 

[Greggy83]

The fact is they have caught up massively, doesn't matter if we weren't in the league for some of them. It's a pure cope to say otherwise

The only way to shut the bastards up is to start racking up trophies again, get back to where we have always belonged

Obviously they have a massive financial advantage so we have to be very smart in the transfer market. Clement has to select a style and bring in players who fit it and hit the ground running. No more scatter gun approach to signings

 

[The Meik's Crombie]

I have only stumbled onto this thread. A previous poster indicated the last time Celtic were within a single league title of us was 1929-1930. If I remember the stats correctly, before that time, Celtic were ahead of us in league titles as they won 6 iar in the 1900’s and another 4 or 5 around the time of the First World War. It was only during the Struth years that we overtook them in league titles and other competitive trophies.

I don’t know if another poster was at it when they said we should, to paraphrase, be out of sight of them because we were founded before them. The all conquering Queens Park were only regularly defeated by the onset of professionalism from the 1890’s and prior to that had reigned supreme in Scotland.