Tillman perma purchase

High Society said:
He’s our player for a season then we have an option to buy him at whatever price was agreed. There’s no real benefit in buying him early unless Bayern remove their buy back clause.
the buy back price is normally double the agreed purchase price.
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So which part of what I said earlier was wrong?

Can the player refuse to sign at the end of the loan period if we pay the agreed fee?
 
If there is a buy back clause they are normally a lot higher than the original fee, it's a win win for us.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
According to German magazine Kicker, Bayern Munich secured a buy-back clause in the deal to send Tillman to us on loan.

If we do sign him permanently next summer, Bayern will still have the option to take him back to Germany for a fixed price. Although nobody seems to have any idea what that price would be.
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Alan McInally will know. He's got a lot of very good, good friends at Bayern.
 
I believe we have an exclusive option to buy. Figures quoted on this thread appear to be in line with what was published at the time (circa €5m)

We are not stupid though, any option will be taken up just a few days before the deadline.

No point signing him now, paying money for a player we already have ‘locked in’ only for him to do his cruciate or something (always a risk with any player)
 
Bluebeard said:
Most excellent news.

I’m watching this boy today in the flesh and thinking if he stays injury free he could well be an absolute beast for us.
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Delighted with that and the sooner the better. The guy looks a class act love the way he makes himself available for a pass and the way he links play.
 
If we have an option price and Bayern have a buy back already it must surely be almost a formality he will sign permanently?

The loan must be merely a season long trial…
 
I posted about this on another thread, German clubs tend to do transfer business on a much more intelligent level than you’ll see elsewhere in Europe. The details of this deal are murky because any buy option we do have will have a buyback for Bayern inserted, the benefit to us is getting a high level player for an affordable fee and getting a return out of that in terms of on the pitch. Celtic done it with Edouard in a way with the 40% of profit deal, they spent 9m on him and gained next to nothing after wages when they did sell him.

I’m potentially jumping the gun a bit, but I think it’s as clear as day that he’s a very talented player and is already US capped and featured for Bayern in the CL. If our buy option is anywhere around say what we paid for Kent, we’d be doing well taking it up.
 
Opta said:
Not necessarily, player could still reject the move if Rangers triggered the option to buy
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How do you know this? Seems to me possible that Tillman has already agreed to be transferred if Rangers trigger the clause. In other words, he, his agent, and Rangers have already agreed details like salary, bonuses, and so on, if he joins the club permanently.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
According to German magazine Kicker, Bayern Munich secured a buy-back clause in the deal to send Tillman to us on loan.

If we do sign him permanently next summer, Bayern will still have the option to take him back to Germany for a fixed price. Although nobody seems to have any idea what that price would be.
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Was wondering about that. If we buy after loan can Bayern buy back straight away just to sell him for much more to another team (the way they got done on the Henry to Belgium deal?)
 
Blootoonboy said:
If we have an option price and Bayern have a buy back already it must surely be almost a formality he will sign permanently?

The loan must be merely a season long trial…
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Pretty much. Similar to the Sands deal and the Hagi deal a few years ago. The only deviation is Bayern have put a buy back clause in to the agreement.

Whatever happens he's here for at least a couple of seasons. Assuming he carries on his current trajectory and doesn't decide he wants to go elsewhere next summer. Usually there's an agreement in place so the latter doesn't happen though. We also wouldn't activate the option to buy, if the player had zero desires or interest in joining us for a second season. It's similar to the Jota deal they did last summer and subsequently completed this summer.
 
Who was the guy on the transfer thread that said he was a “project player”? Own up before I search back. B-D

Guy is strolling it after a few games and making an impact too.

Delighted with his contributions so far. If we’re having the same convo come Christmas I’m sure we’l be looking at excercising the option. No rush yet though.
 
ronadamus_prime said:
Pretty much. Similar to the Sands deal and the Hagi deal a few years ago. The only deviation is Bayern have put a buy back clause in to the agreement.

Whatever happens he's here for at least a couple of seasons. Assuming he carries on his current trajectory and doesn't decide he wants to go elsewhere next summer. Usually there's an agreement in place so the latter doesn't happen though. We also wouldn't activate the option to buy, if the player had zero desires or interest in joining us for a second season. It's similar to the Jota deal they did last summer and subsequently completed this summer.
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If we do sign him permanently I think we’ll make a very tidy profit.

I dont think he’ll reach Bayern’s level but he’ll be a top player.
 
Ruben Sosa said:
Loan with option to buy means the player has agreed to sign permanently at the end of the loan season, and the fee for the permanent move has been agreed.
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Playing devils advocate here....

Say he has an incredible season and Ajax offer Bayern £20M and him £60k per week.

Everything changes, we can't expect Bayern to knock that back over our £6M, and we can't expect him to accept £30k a week with us.

If we can, we should buy him now.
 
Heisenberg said:
Playing devils advocate here....

Say he has an incredible season and Ajax offer Bayern £20M and him £60k per week.

Everything changes, we can't expect Bayern to knock that back over our £6M, and we can't expect him to accept £30k a week with us.

If we can, we should buy him now.
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Its an exclusive offer to buy which means if we offer the agreed fee to Bayern its accepted. They cant accept another offer until our negotiations with Tillman fail (theoretically).
 
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The Shadow said:
I believe we have an exclusive option to buy. Figures quoted on this thread appear to be in line with what was published at the time (circa €5m)

We are not stupid though, any option will be taken up just a few days before the deadline.

No point signing him now, paying money for a player we already have ‘locked in’ only for him to do his cruciate or something (always a risk with any player)
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He's already had an ACL injury.
www.bavarianfootballworks.com

Injury update: Malik Tillman tears ACL, will miss several months

www.bavarianfootballworks.com www.bavarianfootballworks.com
 
Ruben Sosa said:
Yeah Opta has put me right on that one.

As per my reply to him, he will be out of our reach with regard wages, I would imagine, if he continues to look like an absolute star.
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I’m not saying there isn’t an agreement in place regarding fee and wages and that it wouldn’t be straight forward to do, in the case of Tillman.

Generally speaking though, having agreed a fee with a club doesn’t mean terms with the player are also agreed. Celtic and Jota being a decent example.
 
ItsInTheNet said:
This thread is in a shocking state.
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I’m not an expert on contract law, and I have no inside knowledge of this deal, but logic tells us a few things.

1. Rangers wanted to sign the lad, and GVB told him he wanted him for the first team. So why a loan deal? Surely not a “try before you buy” in these circumstances, and given what we know already about how he can play? Logic suggests Rangers couldn’t afford a permanent purchase of Tillman in the current window, and not because of his salary, which Rangers must be paying anyway, but because of the agreed fee.
2. For an “exclusive option to buy”, a fee must be agreed.
3. Therefore, the fee must be at least £4m, perhaps significantly more. More than Rangers could afford this window, but not more than Rangers think they can afford next summer.
4. If a contract has been agreed between the clubs, no other club can come in with a big offer - Rangers have the rights to first refusal, at the end of this season. Ergo, Tillman is guaranteed at Rangers for this season at least. But the lad’s head could be turned by a big money offer from a big club, so he could still choose to go elsewhere at the end of the loan.
5. Nobody knows the buy-back amount, but it must be to prevent Rangers buying Tillman for, say £5m this season, then selling him a year later for £25m. Bayern are no mugs.
 
for me it’s got to be made permanent, the lad is a star in the making, even if he goes back to Bayern we’ll make a profit and have the pleasure of watching him play for hopefully a few seasons.
 
Mr_Miscellaneous said:
According to German magazine Kicker, Bayern Munich secured a buy-back clause in the deal to send Tillman to us on loan.

If we do sign him permanently next summer, Bayern will still have the option to take him back to Germany for a fixed price. Although nobody seems to have any idea what that price would be.
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He also has to want to go back mind. I know it's Bayern, but if your a first team player and Bayern want you as back up, and there's maybe other clubs interested that want to make you a first team player, it's not guaranteed he goes back there for that price
 
academical said:
I’m not an expert on contract law, and I have no inside knowledge of this deal, but logic tells us a few things.

1. Rangers wanted to sign the lad, and GVB told him he wanted him for the first team. So why a loan deal? Surely not a “try before you buy” in these circumstances, and given what we know already about how he can play? Logic suggests Rangers couldn’t afford a permanent purchase of Tillman in the current window, and not because of his salary, which Rangers must be paying anyway, but because of the agreed fee.
2. For an “exclusive option to buy”, a fee must be agreed.
3. Therefore, the fee must be at least £4m, perhaps significantly more. More than Rangers could afford this window, but not more than Rangers think they can afford next summer.
4. If a contract has been agreed between the clubs, no other club can come in with a big offer - Rangers have the rights to first refusal, at the end of this season. Ergo, Tillman is guaranteed at Rangers for this season at least. But the lad’s head could be turned by a big money offer from a big club, so he could still choose to go elsewhere at the end of the loan.
5. Nobody knows the buy-back amount, but it must be to prevent Rangers buying Tillman for, say £5m this season, then selling him a year later for £25m. Bayern are no mugs.
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A measured post as usual @academical. Only thing I would say in response to point 3 is that we signed Tillman on loan a good 10 days before the deal for Yilmaz. Now it may be that we felt we had to prioritise the cash for the Yilmaz deal, and I don't think anybody would dispute that given that Barisic is/was going through an inconsistent spell, but there was money there. We just chose to spend it on Yilmaz.

My theory is similar to yours. We only had a finite figure to spend and chose to spend it on Yilmaz because we knew we could get the 'loan with option to buy' on Tillman - but that sort of deal wasn't available for Yilmaz. Which almost amounts to the same thing. Whether we should have spent it on Tillman, and maybe failed to get Yilmaz, remains to be seen.
 
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Sandbear said:
The price is set and it’s an exclusive option to buy, they also have a buy back option which we will have agreed to obviously. The details of the deal will not be public knowledge even after the deal is done I would expect.
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I think most big clubs are doing this now, Chelsea have one with Tammy Abraham but Im sure its a lot more than they paid for him
 
nateman said:
That wont happen. Our option to buy is for £6m and Bayern's buy back clause is set around £20m.
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For real? I thought it was first refusal rights and not a flat out buy back fee already agreed

Strange deal really, basically a 1.5 year loan where we have the option of profiting 14m, I guess.

What happens if tillman says no to bayern if they don't offer him first team football for example? I'm guessing he still has to go as its in the contract?
 
DM55 said:
Surely there must be an element of choice for Tillman as well? I could understand if the lad feels if he comes here and plays outstanding he might be in with a shout for playing in the Bayern team proper.

He is class and I really hope this carries on and he stays but I will enjoy it while it lasts either way.
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Bayern wouldn’t have allowed that clause had they felt there was any chance of that happening, they’d easily be able to punt him on loan to almost any other German side had they seen a future for him.
A buy back clause if we get a reduced buying fee perhaps?
 
Heisenberg said:
Playing devils advocate here....

Say he has an incredible season and Ajax offer Bayern £20M and him £60k per week.

Everything changes, we can't expect Bayern to knock that back over our £6M, and we can't expect him to accept £30k a week with us.

If we can, we should buy him now.
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if weve given him a platform he could sign for us on the monday for our agreed price and go to Ajax on the Tuesday...
 
Arkanoid said:
Bayern wouldn’t have allowed that clause had they felt there was any chance of that happening, they’d easily be able to punt him on loan to almost any other German side had they seen a future for him.
A buy back clause if we get a reduced buying fee perhaps?
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tbf i think a buy back clause is happening in most moves now from Elite clubs. its a no brainer on thier part
 
Heisenberg said:
Playing devils advocate here....

Say he has an incredible season and Ajax offer Bayern £20M and him £60k per week.

Everything changes, we can't expect Bayern to knock that back over our £6M, and we can't expect him to accept £30k a week with us.

If we can, we should buy him now.
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He seems like a grounded lad, so hopefully with the fee already agreed, he won't be too hard to deal with in terms of wages, if that figure hasn't already been set.

Hopefully he does have an incredible season though, he's certainly started off on fire.
 
BlueSeaOfIbrox said:
For real? I thought it was first refusal rights and not a flat out buy back fee already agreed

Strange deal really, basically a 1.5 year loan where we have the option of profiting 14m, I guess.

What happens if tillman says no to bayern if they don't offer him first team football for example? I'm guessing he still has to go as its in the contract?
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If the player doesn't want to go then the clause is meaningless. Same as our option to buy clause would be meaningless if he doesn't want to come here.
 
Visions of the famous Rickie Fulton signing sketch in my head when reading Tillmans wiki :))

“Tillman has an older brother, Timothy“
 
Waiting until after the loan deal is up, next summer possibly helps with Financial fair play.

People with a greater understanding may know better.
 
OlegKuznetsov said:
His anticipation is de Boer levels. Not lightening fast. But one move ahead of anything else on the park. You cant teach that. The boys a super star
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I think one of the Kilmarnock players is still trying to get back into Ibrox now, after he sold him last week.
 
govanfront85 said:
Waiting until after the loan deal is up, next summer possibly helps with Financial fair play.

People with a greater understanding may know better.
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Perhaps cash flow but I wouldn’t think it would be an ffp thing with all the money we have taken in, in terms of transfers and the Europa run.
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Excuse a stupid question but is our ‘Option to buy’ as straightforward as it sounds, i.e if we want him we can buy him and if so is the price already set?

Conversely, is there any option for Bayern to then insert a buyback clause with any purchase, essentially meaning he’s sort of still on loan?

The kid is $1,000,000 every time he’s on the ball and we have to make him ours.
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I asked this question a few weeks back because I was in the same quandary wrt to the many layers of his contract. I’m not sure what the outlay was for this years loan, (Say $1M for this year) and I reckon he will do well for us and let’s say we bought him for £6M in the summer, so if we pay £6M and put him on a 3 year contract with a buyout of £15M, can Bayern come in right away and buy him, like a release clause?

Could Tillman refuse to go to Bayern and stay with us?

Best case scenario, he stays with us a for a good few years and Rangers set the fee for any deal.

Really glad we got this guy.
 
Roscoblue said:
I’m not saying there isn’t an agreement in place regarding fee and wages and that it wouldn’t be straight forward to do, in the case of Tillman.

Generally speaking though, having agreed a fee with a club doesn’t mean terms with the player are also agreed. Celtic and Jota being a decent example.
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Yeah I doubt a player would agree to something that he's bound by but the club aren't.
 
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