What's an appropriate assessment of Beale?

Angrybluebear said:
It’s nothing to do with people/personalities.

If we are sacking a manager (who incidentally had the identical domestic record for the same amount of games in charge as Posticoglu) then we need to improve. GvB took us to the Europa League final with a squad that was on their @rses, 13 wins out of 24 games, two wins in their last 10 European games, humiliated at Hampden by Hibs. If we didn’t go to Seville we were winning the league no doubt about it. He won the Scottish Cup, never lost a domestic cup match.

Beale has came in lost the same amount of domestic games in almost half the amount of matches. Was further behind celtic when they won the league than when he came in, bottled both cup competitions.

So yes I’ve yet to be convinced there is an improvement.

GvB came in when we were left in the lurch by Gerrard, he was hamstrung by an ageing bloated squad he inherited. Gerrard‘s signing policy after 55 was a disgrace, whether that was the Board saying you knew you were front loaded or we know you are angling for an out so you are getting nothing, who knows.

Our backbone of 55 was based on the following players, their league starts during 55, in brackets League starts last season.

Goldson 38 (25), Helander 21 (0), Davis 29 (1), Hagi 23 (3), Roofe 18 (0), Morelos 26 (15). Roofe was our top league scorer in 55 with 14 goals he had 1 goal last season. Hagi had 7 he got 1 last year. Morelos scored less in fact they 6 players contributed 38 goals during 55, they got 16 last season.

The Club sold Patterson, Aribo and Bassey from under him you could probably include Swiss league and cup title winner Cedric Itten. GvB was given just over £10million to work with, Aribo played 149 games over 3 seasons for us, an Europa League final scorer, a huge void to fill. But hey he had Ofoborh and Bacuna as replacements.

When you have your longest ever season followed by your shortest preseason with games twice a week like at the start of last season not only do you not have proper rest and recuperation time you don’t have enough time for preparation, you invariably pick up injuries. We were decimated by injuries, Our new signings started the following league games Yilmaz 8, Lawrence 4, Souttar 8, Matondo 9. Colak started the season on fire 14 goals before Beale came in was hardly seen under Beale. Davies took a while to settle you could argue only him and Matondo have still to prove they can handle playing for us.

Beale came to the Club in to a far better position than GvB did.
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You neglect to mention that Gio changed the tactics 180 from a team that had developed after seasons and then when it started to unravel he came up with a hybrid style-that was Gio’s key problem domestically.
Gio’s signings last season were also catastrophically bad.

I would suggest that’s why he never survived and if the signings were a team decision also why Wilson wasn’t kept too much longer.

The jury is out on Beale one thing is for certain the style is a better match and he has caught the imagination of the support with his two signings even though I personally find that overstated
 
DylanGer said:
You neglect to mention that Gio changed the tactics 180 from a team that had developed after seasons and then when it started to unravel he came up with a hybrid style-that was Gio’s key problem domestically.
Gio’s signings last season were also catastrophically bad.

I would suggest that’s why he never survived and if the signings were a team decision also why Wilson wasn’t kept too much longer.

The jury is out on Beale one thing is for certain the style is a better match and he has caught the imagination of the support with his two signings even though I personally find that overstated
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The 3-0 win against them was huge for the club and for Beale hopefully that result has restored a bit of optimism around and within the club.
 
He clearly is not convincing a lot of people, there is also a fair bit of discontent around the running of the Club as well.
As far as an appropriate assessment goes, I'd say honeymoon or general goodwill now over but there's not a lot of room for slip ups or disappointing performances going forward.
 
The only rational way to judge him is by comparing him to the previous guy.

So far he’s lost out on 2 domestic cups whereas Gio won the only cup on offer, beating Celtic along the way.

He’s not had a shot at Europe yet but Gio got us into the CL group stages and to a EL final so the chances of him matching that are pretty slim. Have already seen a lot of people start to say it’s not fair to judge on the CL because they know it’s a tall order and there’s a high chance it doesn’t go our way.

In the league Gio faltered, no doubt about it. Be it injuries to key players or a squad just not good enough or his possession based game plans. When Beale came in the phrase was “reduce the gap and win a cup”. As noted above he never won a cup and the gap increased until after Celtic officially won the league.

The team does look a lot better now, with the caveat that is mainly down to 3 players, Goldson being back fit (until he got injured again and we started dropping points again), Cantwell and Raskin. Taking a step back do I think Beale would have been as consistent without them, no.


He finally beat Celtic in the last OF game. In theory it was meaningless but for me it was a must win for Beale. He needed to get that off his back going into next season having lost the two cups. It will give him a bit of breathing space over the summer and up to the first old firm game.

I’ve always said whoever it was that came in would struggle as Gio’s achievements on paper were extremely good.

For me, if he doesn’t make the CL groups he has to beat them the first game and make sure we are ahead of them or the above comparisons will get louder when he continues to fail to achieve what Gio did.

Imo the board backed the players instead of the manager as it was the easy decisions prior to the AGM and WC break.

The fact even with a new manager it’s blatantly clear the squad isn’t good enough and needs a complete overhaul says it all.
 
The draw at Ibrox 2-2 the subs he made sold the points bringing Sands and Wright on.

The cup final he got his team wrong.

The 3-2 and 1-0 loss to the scum it’s individual errors by the players letting him down he got everything spot on. They certainly haven’t bullied us or dominated us since he came that’s for sure.

The rest of the league games fine bar the shit show at Pittodrie.

2 signings he made that we’ve seen so far have been excellent so happy in that department.
 
To be fair probably needs this transfer window to allow a proper assessment.
To be honest one cup win was not an unreasonable target after he took over so would say decent progress has been made but disappointing on the cup front
 
The_Gaffer said:
I think you're being very harsh, he by and large did improve the form of those that see their future here and the newer players all look completely bought in.

The ones that knew they were leaving? That's a very, very high bar you're judging him on. They didn't look to be lost causes they were lost causes, the killer was they were probably the first choice front 3. It's no coincidence the rest of them functioned pretty well but when it came to relying on these guys to step up they were empty shirts.
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Your argument seems to be that he did the best anyone could realistically expect with what he had.

I don’t agree.

Expecting him to win one cup, or reduce the points gap, or beat them a couple of times weren’t unfair expectations when he came in. Most appeared to be in agreement at the time.

A really good reaction would have been for him to have done all three, but without labouring the point, he didn’t manage any.

So I get the arguments you’re making about having key players who’d already checked out, and I’d even add in Helander and Roofe’s unavailability as further hindrances, but I still think those expectations were reasonable so to have failed made it a fairly uninspiring first six months in the role for me, a 6/10.
 
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Angrybluebear said:
It’s nothing to do with people/personalities.

If we are sacking a manager (who incidentally had the identical domestic record for the same amount of games in charge as Posticoglu) then we need to improve. GvB took us to the Europa League final with a squad that was on their @rses, 13 wins out of 24 games, two wins in their last 10 European games, humiliated at Hampden by Hibs. If we didn’t go to Seville we were winning the league no doubt about it. He won the Scottish Cup, never lost a domestic cup match.

Beale has came in lost the same amount of domestic games in almost half the amount of matches. Was further behind celtic when they won the league than when he came in, bottled both cup competitions.

So yes I’ve yet to be convinced there is an improvement.

GvB came in when we were left in the lurch by Gerrard, he was hamstrung by an ageing bloated squad he inherited. Gerrard‘s signing policy after 55 was a disgrace, whether that was the Board saying you knew you were front loaded or we know you are angling for an out so you are getting nothing, who knows.

Our backbone of 55 was based on the following players, their league starts during 55, in brackets League starts last season.

Goldson 38 (25), Helander 21 (0), Davis 29 (1), Hagi 23 (3), Roofe 18 (0), Morelos 26 (15). Roofe was our top league scorer in 55 with 14 goals he had 1 goal last season. Hagi had 7 he got 1 last year. Morelos scored less in fact they 6 players contributed 38 goals during 55, they got 16 last season.

The Club sold Patterson, Aribo and Bassey from under him you could probably include Swiss league and cup title winner Cedric Itten. GvB was given just over £10million to work with, Aribo played 149 games over 3 seasons for us, an Europa League final scorer, a huge void to fill. But hey he had Ofoborh and Bacuna as replacements.

When you have your longest ever season followed by your shortest preseason with games twice a week like at the start of last season not only do you not have proper rest and recuperation time you don’t have enough time for preparation, you invariably pick up injuries. We were decimated by injuries, Our new signings started the following league games Yilmaz 8, Lawrence 4, Souttar 8, Matondo 9. Colak started the season on fire 14 goals before Beale came in was hardly seen under Beale. Davies took a while to settle you could argue only him and Matondo have still to prove they can handle playing for us.

Beale came to the Club in to a far better position than GvB did.
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Stopped paying attention pretty early on here, when you said we were winning the league if it wasn't for the run to Seville. Gio had fucked ELEVEN points in the bin between the January restart and the end of February. ELEVEN dropped points in 8 games. The filth were top of the league, from 6 points behind, before we'd even gone to Dortmund. Absolutely nothing to do with Seville. Utter garbage.

Yet another lengthy post. Extraordinary lengths to go to in order to denigrate the current Rangers manager. Bizarre stuff.
 
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Beale has done fine. He understands what is needed.

My concern is we are making a lot of changes quickly. Who is conducting transfer business? Who is doing admin and registration?

Our transfer window so far has signed 4 players. Dowell a decent punt should be a good squad player, Butland should be fine but hasn’t played regularly for a long time, has a risk attached. Sterling again a decent squad player. Low risk. Lammers is a high risk signing not scored regularly for a few seasons.

That is it so far. Tillman not coming. If Ross Wilson was still here in charge of recruitment there would be pages of posts slagging off our business so far.

We have moved on nobody. So Beale needs a striker signed fairly quickly that will hit some goals.

Otherwise this could go pear shaped. We have a bonus in them changing manager. It cannot be wasted.
 
Chrisr said:
I think he done what he could with what he had. The team had long passed its sell by date. He steadied the ship and started recruitment. This will be a hard year. Say what we want but that lot are a good side with good players. I don’t think Rogers will make them better so it is a good chance. I have faith that Beale can get there. I’m liking the fact Wer getting our transfers done early
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I agree with everything you say other than Rogers not making them a better team.

He will and that's the challenge in front of us.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Your argument seems to be that he did the best anyone could realistically expect with what he had.

I don’t agree.

Expecting him to win one cup, or reduce the points gap, or beat them a couple of times weren’t unfair expectations when he came in. Most appeared to be in agreement at the time.

A really good reaction would have been for him to have done all three, but without labouring the point, he didn’t manage any.

So I get the arguments you’re making about having key players who’d already checked out, and I’d even add in Helander and Roofe’s unavailability as further hindrances, but I still think those expectations were reasonable so to have failed made it a fairly uninspiring first six months in the role for me, a 6/10.
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You're not really getting the arguments if you are blatantly unwilling to adapt your original expectations.

You acknowledge key player X, Y and Z had downed tools but it doesn't matter. His only fit and properly committed forward was Sakala.

By the time the semi final came around it was laughable how predictable the games against them had become but we simply had nobody else.

I wouldn't even care to give him a rating or an appraisal. I can simply understand that he inherited a team dead on its arse that badly needed well overdue surgery.

As much as we don't like it Celtic were just better than us last season. They had committed players that were all bought in, we had numerous players counting down the days until they could leave.
 
The_Gaffer said:
You're not really getting the arguments if you are blatantly unwilling to adapt your original expectations.

You acknowledge key player X, Y and Z had downed tools but it doesn't matter. His only fit and properly committed forward was Sakala.

By the time the semi final came around it was laughable how predictable the games against them had become but we simply had nobody else.

I wouldn't even care to give him a rating or an appraisal. I can simply understand that he inherited a team dead on its arse that badly needed well overdue surgery.

As much as we don't like it Celtic were just better than us last season. They had committed players that were all bought in, we had numerous players counting down the days until they could leave.
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We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

The thread was about an appropriate assessment of Beale’s first season / six months in charge and my feelings were that it was actually a bit of a disappointment.

You disagree.

That’s okay.
 
I will reserve my judgment until the break in January.
If we are still in Europe, and very much in touch, if not in front in the SPFL then I will be more than content that his job is safe until at least the end of the season.
There are so many variables on the other side of the city. At the moment it’s difficult to know what will happen..
I’m sure flange will pay big money for a couple of his former players.
And no doubt Brenda will be on a promise of a decent transfer kitty.
However, it is possible that flange’s players who are left will down tools if they don’t like Brenda. He is a weird one.
 
All to prove this coming season he never did well in the games that mattered but will get a chance to prove he has what it takes next season with his own players.
A surprising choice for me as we had moved on considerable from when Gerrard another inexperienced manager took us on.
 
Some posters write a lot, also some posters tend to write in the same style as other posters who write a lot, and it's a lot of negative stuff - one poster with multiple log ins? Who knows, anyway.

I'll put my cards on the table and say I will judge Beale on how things look next January, I am hopeful of a good league campaign where we win the title and if we are on top or a few points off by the midway point, I'll be happy; one of the two cups and making the CL Groups would be brilliant as well.
 
Laudo. said:
I agree with everything you say other than Rogers not making them a better team.

He will and that's the challenge in front of us.
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Yes, Rodgers is a decent coach with lots of experience and we have Beale who's starting out at his career as a manager with little or no experience in the role.
They will also have offered Rodgers a big transfer budget to get him here.
Like everyone else I just want to win the league and knock them down a peg or two but lets not kid ourselves on it will be easy.
 
RAFBob said:
Some posters write a lot, also some posters tend to write in the same style as other posters who write a lot, and it's a lot of negative stuff - one poster with multiple log ins? Who knows, anyway.

I'll put my cards on the table and say I will judge Beale on how things look next January, I am hopeful of a good league campaign where we win the title and if we are on top or a few points off by the midway point, I'll be happy; one of the two cups and making the CL Groups would be brilliant as well.
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Putting your cards on the table but not showing them until January did make me chuckle
 
HandsomeHead said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

The thread was about an appropriate assessment of Beale’s first season / six months in charge and my feelings were that it was actually a bit of a disappointment.

You disagree.

That’s okay.
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No. You're wrong and I'm right and that's how we'll leave it.
 
He’s doing a good job and found his feet and will only get better
He will ruin the so called Elite level managers second coming blah blah blah
 
TN8 said:
Stopped paying attention pretty early on here, when you said we were winning the league if it wasn't for the run to Seville. Gio had fucked ELEVEN points in the bin between the January restart and the end of February. ELEVEN dropped points in 8 games. The filth were top of the league, from 6 points behind, before we'd even gone to Dortmund. Absolutely nothing to do with Seville. Utter garbage.

Yet another lengthy post. Extraordinary lengths to go to in order to denigrate the current Rangers manager. Bizarre stuff.
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Did ye aye ? Still took the time to reply and use shouty letters.

Let me educate you.

We dropped

3 points away to Dundee Utd after and before the Malmo fiascos.
2 points home to Motherwell straight after Lyon home
2 points home to Hearts immediately before Brondby home
humiliated by Hibs at Hampden immediately before Sparta Prague home
2 points dropped away to Dundee Utd immediately before Dortmund home.
2 points dropped home to Motherwell immediately after Dortmund home
3 points dropped home to celtic immediately before Braga away.
2 points dropped away to celtic immediately after Leipzig away.

we dropped points in 7 games immediately before or after a big European game.
We dropped points in a total of 10 games.

celtic dropped points
away to Hearts after Midjtiland away
away to us after AZ Alkmaar
away to Livi after Real Betis
home to Dundee Utd before Bayer Leverkusen
home to Livingston before Ferenvaros away
away to St Mirren no excuses
away to Hibs after Bodo Glimt away
out of Europe
home to us
away to Dundee Utd

So they dropped points in a total of 9 matches, 7 whilst still in Europe and only 1 of these that wasn’t before or after an European tie.

It’s not an unknown phenomenon across Europe for players to be more focused on an upcoming European tie or the come down after one. Only the clueless or those that don’t get football can’t understand this.

celtic won the league by 4 points. We lost to them on the eve of our first leg Europa League quarter final and drew with them in the game sandwiched between our Europa League semi final ties. That right there alone is the title swing.

Last season we dropped points
away to Hibs with 9 men immediately after PSV home
Away to celtic immediately before our first CL tie in over a decade
Home to Livingston immediately before Napoli away
Away to St Johnstone immediately after Ajax the end of our CL group games

St Mirren away the only exception but in a game we were missing Goldson, Helander, Davies, Yilmaz, Souttar, Hagi, Sakala, Lawrence, Colak. Jack came on for his first game in 5 weeks, as did 18 year old Robbie Ure, We started with 18 year old Leon King who sold the goal and went off injured, leaving us with Sands as our only centre half.

celtic‘s only loss until GvB left was away to St Mirren straight after they played Shaktaar Donetsk.
 
GBY74 said:
We were miles ahead after winning 55 and I'm at a complete loss as to why the board never backed Gerrard and kicked on everything was in place to do so. I agree if we don't get it right this season they'll continue to dominate for the foreseeable future.
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They regrouped as they had the cash to do so, we simply aren't in their healthy position. Unless you want us to take a gamble and start throwing money around that we don't have.

I've read some posts on here saying you have to speculate to accumulate, which is a just a way of gambling with the future of the club. Not for me, I doubt we'll ever be wealthier than them, the best we can do is match them off the pitch, but we are still behind them on that score. The very same situation when we were spending big. At this moment in time, they spend the tenner while we spend the fiver.
 
TheDerryend said:
They regrouped as they had the cash to do so, we simply aren't in their healthy position. Unless you want us to take a gamble and start throwing money around that we don't have.

I've read some posts on here saying you have to speculate to accumulate, which is a just a way of gambling with the future of the club. Not for me, I doubt we'll ever be wealthier than them, the best we can do is match them off the pitch, but we are still behind them on that score. The very same situation when we were spending big. At this moment in time, they spend the tenner while we spend the fiver.
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I get that but if we want to be successful we simply have to find investment to back the manager if we can't do that we'll continue to watch them dominate unfortunately.
 
GBY74 said:
I agree however I'm hoping that result has given us some confidence.
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True and so do I, but I just feel it kind of brushed over a lot of cracks for fans and I hope not the manager. They have a team hitting their prime and the manager won’t downgrade that too much I think. Recruitment as always will defy wether we’re challenging or not.
 
GBY74 said:
I get that but if we want to be successful we simply have to find investment to back the manager if we can't do that we'll continue to watch them dominate unfortunately.
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I agree, but as long as we're careful. The problem is the game up here is in a lot worse condition than it was back when we started spending big. TV has changed the whole landscape of football now and as a club we need to be very wary of people making big promises as there is no fortunes to be made from Scottish football.

That lot seems to run like an Irish mafia, not easy for us since we basically had to start from scratch.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Your argument seems to be that he did the best anyone could realistically expect with what he had.

I don’t agree.

Expecting him to win one cup, or reduce the points gap, or beat them a couple of times weren’t unfair expectations when he came in. Most appeared to be in agreement at the time.

A really good reaction would have been for him to have done all three, but without labouring the point, he didn’t manage any.

So I get the arguments you’re making about having key players who’d already checked out, and I’d even add in Helander and Roofe’s unavailability as further hindrances, but I still think those expectations were reasonable so to have failed made it a fairly uninspiring first six months in the role for me, a 6/10.
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Very overambitious.
 
TheDerryend said:
Seems so mate. We've to completely ignore that, but it would mean admitting celtic are the power in scotland at this time, some just can't face up to that fact.
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I agree with this. Blue tinted specs are on for a good few.

Tin hat on, I'm not expecting Beale to win the league this season. I think his will be similar to the fat man's first season at the scum hut, where we really should've won it but managed to f--- it up. I don't think they'll give us the chance we gave them to get in front.

We have to hope our rookie manager gets every single signing absolutely spot on and hope they gel quickly, whereas they'll have a treble winning team already, a good manager incoming and a huge budget compared to ours.

Hope I'm wrong but Beale's 2nd season, depending how his first goes, is where I'd expect the rebuild to be complete and ready.
 
GBY74 said:
We were miles ahead after winning 55 and I'm at a complete loss as to why the board never backed Gerrard and kicked on everything was in place to do so. I agree if we don't get it right this season they'll continue to dominate for the foreseeable future.
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RossS1872 said:
The money wasn't there. Gerrard wanted to keep the core of players and add to it without a sale to fund it. Our transfers in summer 2021 were 3 free transfers tells you everything. I think we should be in a position where we should be having a big sale every season to help fund the squad maintenance, whilst that isn't always possible if no one want to buy players, but I don't think that its a coincidence in Gio's first transfer window, theres a big sale, then in the summer there's one as well.
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We were never miles ahead 55 was a season they, well Neil Lennon imploded. It summed up Lennon’s persona, he thought he was untouchable and above everything, including COVID 19. A team that won a quadruple treble doesn’t become a bad team overnight. They had spent over £20million the season before to win the quadruple title I think the only first team regular they lost was Craig Gordon

Our squad was

McGregor, McLaughlin, Firth, McCrorie
Tavernier, King
Goldson, Balogun
Helander, Simpson, Katic
Barisic, Bassey
Davis, McCann
Jack, Kamara
Hagi, Arfield
Aribo, Wright
Morelos, Roofe, Itten
Kent, Middleton, Hastie

We brought in Lundstram, Sakala, Bacuna, Ofoborh
to replace who left Stewart, Edmundson, Jones and Zungu

We were arguably stronger, a 31 man first team squad was unsustainable, as pointed out Gerrard wanted his cake and to eat it. The Board backed him by not selling any of our assets when they had value.

That is why GvBs first transfer window we got 3 loans and a 19 year old Polish reserve. Despite Aribo, Patterson, Bassey and arguably Itten being sold from under him, the following season around £10million or 20% of what we brought in. Posticoglu spent around £50million over the same period.
 
the architect said:
Putting your cards on the table but not showing them until January did make me chuckle
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Very short reply for you.

I've said what I want for the season, I've said when I would give Beale until. What else do you need to know, or is my message too short?
 
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bLuE PirAtE said:
Are we expecting unrealistic expectations from Beale? Seperate Entity's transfer budget totally dwarves ours?
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What is realistic?

Our wage bill last season was north of £40m. We dropped points to Hibs, Livingston, Hearts, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Aberdeen. Going by your budget logic, we should be blowing these teams away?

We spent the guts of £15m in the summer window, and topped that up with another £3m in January.

There’s not a single player in the Celtic squad that is out of reach for us, financially. Their best players last season were Hatate and Mooy who cost a combined £1.5m. They had a bigger budget than us when we won 55 - but we got our house in order, found consistency, and went and did what needed to be done.
 
Angrybluebear said:
That is why GvBs first transfer window we got 3 loans and a 19 year old Polish reserve. Despite Aribo, Patterson, Bassey and arguably Itten being sold from under him, the following season around £10million or 20% of what we brought in. Posticoglu spent around £50million over the same period.
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I think we got what we did under GVB mainly because he was happy to play 2nd fiddle to Ross Wilson and Ross Wilson himself was keen to take the lead.

Say what you will about Michael Beale but I think its clear he is someone with his own ideas and how to implement them, no moreso than with Players.

The transfers secured so far address the deficiencies and have upgraded our Team/Squad massively. We continue to pursue targets that, while varying opinion on quality, certainly continue along that line.

There is no scattergun or gamble feeling to what is being done at Rangers this Summer and were Ross Wilson still in post hed no doubt be having his say, but he would be kept on a straighter path by Beale.
 
TheDerryend said:
They regrouped as they had the cash to do so, we simply aren't in their healthy position. Unless you want us to take a gamble and start throwing money around that we don't have.

I've read some posts on here saying you have to speculate to accumulate, which is a just a way of gambling with the future of the club. Not for me, I doubt we'll ever be wealthier than them, the best we can do is match them off the pitch, but we are still behind them on that score. The very same situation when we were spending big. At this moment in time, they spend the tenner while we spend the fiver.
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While they continue to do that the reality is they will probably continue to pick up more silverware. We may win the odd title or cup, as we have done, but the likelihood is they will remain the dominant side.

If we’re unable to compete financially then the only way we change that is to ensure our recruitment is more or less inspired.

This is what we’re hoping from Beale and the players he brings in, because if he’s unable to win a greater share of trophies than he should realistically expect, he’ll find himself out of a job sooner rather than later.

That is also part of our reality.
 
Laudo. said:
I agree with everything you say other than Rogers not making them a better team.

He will and that's the challenge in front of us.
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I don’t doubt Rodgers is a good manager. Personally I don’t think he is an upgrade on ange. If I where to play an ange team at full flow or Rogers I’d pick a Rogers team
 
Angrybluebear said:
Did ye aye ? Still took the time to reply and use shouty letters.

Let me educate you.

We dropped

3 points away to Dundee Utd after and before the Malmo fiascos.
2 points home to Motherwell straight after Lyon home
2 points home to Hearts immediately before Brondby home
humiliated by Hibs at Hampden immediately before Sparta Prague home
2 points dropped away to Dundee Utd immediately before Dortmund home.
2 points dropped home to Motherwell immediately after Dortmund home
3 points dropped home to celtic immediately before Braga away.
2 points dropped away to celtic immediately after Leipzig away.

we dropped points in 7 games immediately before or after a big European game.
We dropped points in a total of 10 games.

celtic dropped points
away to Hearts after Midjtiland away
away to us after AZ Alkmaar
away to Livi after Real Betis
home to Dundee Utd before Bayer Leverkusen
home to Livingston before Ferenvaros away
away to St Mirren no excuses
away to Hibs after Bodo Glimt away
out of Europe
home to us
away to Dundee Utd

So they dropped points in a total of 9 matches, 7 whilst still in Europe and only 1 of these that wasn’t before or after an European tie.

It’s not an unknown phenomenon across Europe for players to be more focused on an upcoming European tie or the come down after one. Only the clueless or those that don’t get football can’t understand this.

celtic won the league by 4 points. We lost to them on the eve of our first leg Europa League quarter final and drew with them in the game sandwiched between our Europa League semi final ties. That right there alone is the title swing.

Last season we dropped points
away to Hibs with 9 men immediately after PSV home
Away to celtic immediately before our first CL tie in over a decade
Home to Livingston immediately before Napoli away
Away to St Johnstone immediately after Ajax the end of our CL group games

St Mirren away the only exception but in a game we were missing Goldson, Helander, Davies, Yilmaz, Souttar, Hagi, Sakala, Lawrence, Colak. Jack came on for his first game in 5 weeks, as did 18 year old Robbie Ure, We started with 18 year old Leon King who sold the goal and went off injured, leaving us with Sands as our only centre half.

celtic‘s only loss until GvB left was away to St Mirren straight after they played Shaktaar Donetsk.
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Incredible stuff. I don't know if this mental level of detail you're going into about a season when Beale wasn't even here is about criticising him or defending Gio. Either way I think you've lost sight of what the thread is about.

Most seem to be in agreement that while a few games could've gone better under Beale, performances generally improved, there were plenty of positive signs, and the real time to judge him will be next season. Abdolutely no idea why that triggers you into bashing out these weird essays in every reply full of excuses for Gio.
 
RAFBob said:
Very short reply for you.

I've said what I want for the season, I've said when I would give Beale until. What else do you need to know, or is my message too short?
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Usually when someone says “putting their cards on the table” they offer an opinion, not say they will give that opinion in 6 months.

I genuinely laughed when I read it. Wasn’t much more to my short post than that.
 
Angrybluebear said:
It’s nothing to do with people/personalities.

If we are sacking a manager (who incidentally had the identical domestic record for the same amount of games in charge as Posticoglu) then we need to improve. GvB took us to the Europa League final with a squad that was on their @rses, 13 wins out of 24 games, two wins in their last 10 European games, humiliated at Hampden by Hibs. If we didn’t go to Seville we were winning the league no doubt about it. He won the Scottish Cup, never lost a domestic cup match.

Beale has came in lost the same amount of domestic games in almost half the amount of matches. Was further behind celtic when they won the league than when he came in, bottled both cup competitions.

So yes I’ve yet to be convinced there is an improvement.

GvB came in when we were left in the lurch by Gerrard, he was hamstrung by an ageing bloated squad he inherited. Gerrard‘s signing policy after 55 was a disgrace, whether that was the Board saying you knew you were front loaded or we know you are angling for an out so you are getting nothing, who knows.

Our backbone of 55 was based on the following players, their league starts during 55, in brackets League starts last season.

Goldson 38 (25), Helander 21 (0), Davis 29 (1), Hagi 23 (3), Roofe 18 (0), Morelos 26 (15). Roofe was our top league scorer in 55 with 14 goals he had 1 goal last season. Hagi had 7 he got 1 last year. Morelos scored less in fact they 6 players contributed 38 goals during 55, they got 16 last season.

The Club sold Patterson, Aribo and Bassey from under him you could probably include Swiss league and cup title winner Cedric Itten. GvB was given just over £10million to work with, Aribo played 149 games over 3 seasons for us, an Europa League final scorer, a huge void to fill. But hey he had Ofoborh and Bacuna as replacements.

When you have your longest ever season followed by your shortest preseason with games twice a week like at the start of last season not only do you not have proper rest and recuperation time you don’t have enough time for preparation, you invariably pick up injuries. We were decimated by injuries, Our new signings started the following league games Yilmaz 8, Lawrence 4, Souttar 8, Matondo 9. Colak started the season on fire 14 goals before Beale came in was hardly seen under Beale. Davies took a while to settle you could argue only him and Matondo have still to prove they can handle playing for us.

Beale came to the Club in to a far better position than GvB did.
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Are we ignoring the fact that the standard of Football under Gio was as bad as I remember and getting worse, horseshoe developing to a level it wasn't enjoyable to even watch us and it was getting worse by the week?
 
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the architect said:
Usually when someone says “putting their cards on the table” they offer an opinion, not say they will give that opinion in 6 months.

I genuinely laughed when I read it. Wasn’t much more to my short post than that.
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Makes no sense bud - I said I'll judge Beale in January and then said what I hope for from next season - that's the way I am saying it.
 
RAFBob said:
Makes no sense bud - I said I'll judge Beale in January and then said what I hope for from next season - that's the way I am saying it.
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Its completely fine to say you'll judge Beale in January, its probably a fair comment.

However, prior to that, using the phrase "I'll put my cards on the table" doesn't tie in with waiting to January to offer your opinion.

I genuinely laughed as it was contradictory and that actually "makes no sense", nothing to do with what you actually intend to do.

The thread is called "What's an appropriate assessment of Beale?" so "putting your cards on the table" would require you to offer an opinion right now of whether you think he's done a good, bad or mediocre job in his first 8 months.

Or you don't "put your cards on the table" and just say you'll pass judgement in January.

I feel you've taken my post as a dig when in reality it was a light hearted joke.
 
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