Jesus Christ! Now Dave King wants the club to love Club 1872 and let Chris Sutton back in!

adidasler said:
This board has been screaming for journalists etc to get banned forever.
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I was going to say that, the list of who should have access would be tiny compared to those who should be banned on here.

The board have there reasons to ban him and that’s there prerogative, like when King banned Gollum and sent him to the roundabout.
 
GarMckin said:
Is your view that King comes in in 2015 and that’s the end of the fight for control? Did you forget about Ashley and Rangers Retail, those are part of the old regime too.

If you actually read what he says none of it mentions C1872 were around in 2015, just that they were important in achieving regime change and more importantly, reengaging with fans.

It wasn’t until after 2016, after C1872 were formed, that we could begin issuing shares to external investors, including C1872, to allow us to solidify control and bring in the right investors.

In fact, at that point we didn’t even have control. Remember the anger after the 2016 AGM when McCoist never voted with his 1.25% and Resolution 11, to issue new shares, was defeated by just 0.4%?

In the following year, C1872 bought out Ashley, became the second largest shareholder in Rangers, then their votes enabled the issuing of new shares at the 2017 AGM, which brought in many of our current investors. This led to their shares being diluted to it’s current level, but was instrumental in achieving complete regime change.
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NO IT WASN'T!
The Regime had gone before C1872 was formed. Buying Ashley’s shares did not cause or contribute to regime change.
At that point C1872 was strong and still credible. Their revenue collapsed , they banned the Club Chaplain and caused problems by writing directly to our major sponsors in defiance of the club.
 
High Society said:
NO IT WASN'T!
The Regime had gone before C1872 was formed. Buying Ashley’s shares did not cause or contribute to regime change.
At that point C1872 was strong and still credible. Their revenue collapsed , they banned the Club Chaplain and caused problems by writing directly to our major sponsors in defiance of the club.
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What questions did they ask in defiance of the club ? Can’t say I’ve seen.
 
Club 1872 overstepped the mark contacting castore , don’t know when I last heard from them , shambles . We should have 20000 contributing but we have less than 7k probably way less
 
In Walter We Trust said:
Club 1872 overstepped the mark contacting castore , don’t know when I last heard from them , shambles . We should have 20000 contributing but we have less than 7k probably way less
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The Hearts Trust - with a much smaller supporter base has done infinitely better than C1872. C1872 is (or already has) failing and that is down to incompetent leadership
 
Hillheadbear said:
The Hearts Trust - with a much smaller supporter base has done infinitely better than C1872. C1872 is (or already has) failing and that is down to incompetent leadership
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Are the requisitioners planning on another tilt at toppling the board of C1872?
 
Buffalobluebear said:
Does anyone know how much King wants for his shares/how much they are valued at?

and is there any possibility of a non C1872 group buying them in the interest of the club and severing ties with him?
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A non C1872 group is his answer. He can parcel his shares for fans like you and I to buy for ourselves. Id never invest in a C1872 type share purchase screen. I don't see any merit in it.
 
Morte said:
Are the requisitioners planning on another tilt at toppling the board of C1872?
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Well, we've all been booted out of C1872 for having the temerity to challenge and criticise them. We are not, however, going away and, unsurprisingly, have a better relationship with Rangers than do C1872.
 
High Society said:
They were made privy to details about Castore deal by Stewart Robertson. They didn’t believe him then wrote to Castore.
R Marshall will remember
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Would not want this kind of amateurism running a burger stand never mind having a 20% stake in Rangers.
 
Oranje said:
Would not want this kind of amateurism running a burger stand never mind having a 20% stake in Rangers.
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When you look at the current board of C1872, the only one of the four that has any real business experience is James Irvine (essentially a high level ambulance chaser). Yet they imagine that they can drive C1872 from their current 4.9% stake to 25%+1.

When you look at the results of the past few years, it is obvious to anyone that they are grossly incompetent.
 
Chris Sutton isn’t even really banned, if we were filming inside a box like we used to there wouldn’t be an issue. The club can see what would happen if he was involved in an outside broadcast at Ibrox, he would get the same treatment Boyd got off the Celtic fans on Sunday.

Difference is we don’t have a compliant media to gloss over it and demand apologies etc and worse with it being a European game we’d be facing a certain stadium closure at the back of it.
 
Sir Sasa Papac said:
Chris Sutton isn’t even really banned, if we were filming inside a box like we used to there wouldn’t be an issue. The club can see what would happen if he was involved in an outside broadcast at Ibrox, he would get the same treatment Boyd got off the Celtic fans on Sunday.

Difference is we don’t have a compliant media to gloss over it and demand apologies etc and worse with it being a European game we’d be facing a certain stadium closure at the back of it.
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I look at it this way ..... what benefit does allowing people like Sutton, Lennon or Stewart into Ibrox bring to Rangers? Does it lead to any extra revenue and if so, how much? Are there any intangible benefits and, if so, what are they?
 
Hillheadbear said:
I look at it this way ..... what benefit does allowing people like Sutton, Lennon or Stewart into Ibrox bring to Rangers? Does it lead to any extra revenue and if so, how much? Are there any intangible benefits and, if so, what are they?
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There’s a certain level of gritted teeth diplomacy I think you need at times. I wouldn’t like to have them in Ibrox but if thats who BT send I wouldnt ban them from mugging it in a studio.

But when it’s clear their presence was going to be immediately and seriously detrimental to Rangers football club then we must do all we can to stop it and if that means banning them then it has to be.
 
High Society said:
They were made privy to details about Castore deal by Stewart Robertson. They didn’t believe him then wrote to Castore.
R Marshall will remember
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Be good to find out and stop the he said she said stuff.

Was it during the rumours Sports Direct were still involved with the new deal? It would put a different spin on it if Club 1872 were asking about something like that.
 
A1bertz said:
A non C1872 group is his answer. He can parcel his shares for fans like you and I to buy for ourselves. Id never invest in a C1872 type share purchase screen. I don't see any merit in it.
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Correct that was the point I was trying to make. C1872 is the poisoned chalice that King has laid his hat on as something he could control if/when he sold his shares to them. Unfortunately C1872 treatment of members including @Robert Marshall and Rev Stuart MacQaurrie along with the clandestine dealings of Chris Graham has exposed them to the wider support as power hungry, corrupt and untrustworthy

So the possibility of C1872 having the money to buy the shares is gone, if he holds on to them, the club can issue more and dilute King’s stake and financial benefit.

So he has 2 options. He sells to a member of the current board and takes what he can get. Or like you suggest, he bundles shares into packages sells them to non C1872 members who would be interested in buying them and maybe make a little extra on them.
 
Careca said:
Be good to find out and stop the he said she said stuff.

Was it during the rumours Sports Direct were still involved with the new deal? It would put a different spin on it if Club 1872 were asking about something like that.
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No he said she said, Stewart Robertson told supporters who attended the meetin in Ibrox a few weeks ago.
 
Hillheadbear said:
Well, we've all been booted out of C1872 for having the temerity to challenge and criticise them. We are not, however, going away and, unsurprisingly, have a better relationship with Rangers than do C1872.
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That's not really a surprise now is it :D I've read most of your posts on this and you've said a good few times now that you don't believe in fan representation on the rangers board, I don't get why you even bothered to put yourself forward as a requistioner.
 
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High Society said:
No he said she said, Stewart Robertson told supporters who attended the meetin in Ibrox a few weeks ago.
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Told supporters Club 1872 broke confidence by approaching Castore direct or told them what was being asked of Castore, by Club 1872?
 
He’s right that club 1872 should have a way of challenging our board (by means of a constructive relationship)

Reason for a lack of a constructive relationship existing is another story altogether as c1872 are an absolute riot!

We (all rangers fans) need to try and fix c1872 and help them have a voice to be reconed with. Waaaaayyyy easier said than done though as it seems more of a closed shop that first thought.

A board room full of spivs is only a generational change and/or few wrong decisions away.
Would be ignorant to think that “could” never happen again.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
That's not really a surprise now is it :D I've read most of your posts on this and you've said a good few times now that you don't believe in fan representation on the rangers board, I don't get why you even bothered to put yourself forward as a requistioner.
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What I have said is that you don't need to be on the Board to have influence. Bear in mind that it is management that runs the club and not the Board. In my experience, both management and boards are willing to listen to individuals that can add value to the business - or club in this case. The problem with C1872 is not just that they don't add any value but that they have also become disruptive.

On the other hand, I do believe that achieving the 25%+1 is a worthwhile objective. C1872 in its current form is wholly incapable of achieving that objective. That is why I and others put our names forward in order to reform C1872 and help it move forward to achieving that objective.
 
A1bertz said:
A non C1872 group is his answer. He can parcel his shares for fans like you and I to buy for ourselves. Id never invest in a C1872 type share purchase screen. I don't see any merit in it.
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Think the problem with that is the volume of shares. Approx £13m worth if you value them at 20p a share.

1- Most people have already said they would rather fund the club directly, rather than buy off King, or would rather current investors fund the club.

2- A direct share issue by the club aiming to raise £6.75m fell short of the target in the summer so getting £13m for King is going to be a non starter.

3- if you blame the high minimum buy in, then even if the average buy from King was £100, you’d need 130,000 people.
 
Oranje said:
Think the problem with that is the volume of shares. Approx £13m worth if you value them at 20p a share.

1- Most people have already said they would rather fund the club directly, rather than buy off King, or would rather current investors fund the club.

2- A direct share issue by the club aiming to raise £6.75m fell short of the target in the summer so getting £13m for King is going to be a non starter.

3- if you blame the high minimum buy in, then even if the average buy from King was £100, you’d need 130,000 people.
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Some folk lose money on shares.
He either sits on them and sells them at a later date or he cuts his losses and sells what he can. He may be able to get pennies on his pound. It's his call. If he's waiting on C1872, he's a fecking idiot.
 
A1bertz said:
Some folk lose money on shares.
He either sits on them and sells them at a later date or he cuts his losses and gets pennies on his pound. It's his call. If he's waiting on C1872, he's a fecking idiot.
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That is one thing that Dave King is not.

In my opinion he knows full well that C1872 are never going to be able to raise enough money to buy his shares.

I think he is playing a different game. I'm not sure exactly what it is but I suspect he is trying to get to 25% of the shares without actually having to buy them and C1872's 4.9% are a piece of that.
 
Hillheadbear said:
What I have said is that you don't need to be on the Board to have influence. Bear in mind that it is management that runs the club and not the Board. In my experience, both management and boards are willing to listen to individuals that can add value to the business - or club in this case. The problem with C1872 is not just that they don't add any value but that they have also become disruptive.

On the other hand, I do believe that achieving the 25%+1 is a worthwhile objective. C1872 in its current form is wholly incapable of achieving that objective. That is why I and others put our names forward in order to reform C1872 and help it move forward to achieving that objective.
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Sorry but unfortunately I'm not quite sure I believe you there I'm afraid. I can't shake off the feeling others are actively trying to ensure Kings shares dont end up anywhere near club 1872. These shares are the best chance c1872 will ever have of reaching that goal.

It would also seem King is also of this opinion hence his comments regarding the coordinated attacks.

It would have been great if at the very beginning of this sorry saga if everyone rolled up their sleeves and worked together on trying to achieve this. Unfortunately, instead what happened was c1872 was ripped apart.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
Sorry but unfortunately I'm not quite sure I believe you there I'm afraid. I can't shake off the feeling others are actively trying to ensure Kings shares dont end up anywhere near club 1872. These shares are the best chance c1872 will ever have of reaching that goal.

It would also seem King is also of this opinion hence his comments regarding the coordinated attacks.

It would have been great if at the very beginning of this sorry saga if everyone rolled up their sleeves and worked together on trying to achieve this. Unfortunately, instead what happened was c1872 was ripped apart.
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We will just have to agree to disagree then.
 
Tbh, in reality it's probably true of all our board members They will say things we as supporters totally disagree with, but the fact of the matter is. They are only looking after their investment, which is understandable.

Again though, this only exasperates how we as supporters are looked upon in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, we are appreciated by the current board, for obvious reasons, but our love of our club, is completely different to theirs.

Dave King is entitled to his opinions, as are the others, so long as their aim is to sure fast the security of our football club, that's fine by me.

As we have seen in relation to Club1872. Power became it's downfall and with it, a total lack of respect to the people that put them into such a strong position.

And that just goes to show how far Dave King is out of touch with reality, but that tells us, people like Mr King live in a different world to you and me.

As I said, our love for our club, is completely different to theirs.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
Sorry but unfortunately I'm not quite sure I believe you there I'm afraid. I can't shake off the feeling others are actively trying to ensure Kings shares dont end up anywhere near club 1872. These shares are the best chance c1872 will ever have of reaching that goal.

It would also seem King is also of this opinion hence his comments regarding the coordinated attacks.

It would have been great if at the very beginning of this sorry saga if everyone rolled up their sleeves and worked together on trying to achieve this. Unfortunately, instead what happened was c1872 was ripped apart.
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Are you for real? Why should investor directors Roll up their sleeves for a guy who walked away and wants his cash back ffs
DK was the right man and has had total respect from 99% of us….up until his behaviour since resigning.
Since then he’s behaved like a spoilt brat
 
High Society said:
Are you for real? Why should investor directors Roll up their sleeves for a guy who walked away and wants his cash back ffs
DK was the right man and has had total respect from 99% of us….up until his behaviour since resigning.
Since then he’s behaved like a spoilt brat
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What are you talking about?

I was meaning c1872 members, contributors etc working together to ensure we could actually make a worthwhile attempt at purchasing his shares.

Don't know where you plucked investor directors from from my post.
 
Careca said:
Seems a strange decision to cross the Rangers board and freeze themselves out by approaching Castore direct. Was it justified?

Would need to hear the Club 1872 reasoning before going all in.
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It’s a fact , I’ve told you the reason. They didn’t believe Stewart Robertson
 
Careca said:
Seems a strange decision to cross the Rangers board and freeze themselves out by approaching Castore direct. Was it justified?

Would need to hear the Club 1872 reasoning before going all in.
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Their reasoning was. They thought they were bigger than they were. They were quite rightly brought back down to earth with a thump.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
What are you talking about?

I was meaning c1872 members, contributors etc working together to ensure we could actually make a worthwhile attempt at purchasing his shares.

Don't know where you plucked investor directors from from my post.
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Ok my apologies if that’s what you meant but it’s incredible you think we can all work together when 3 people and a guy on £60k plus ran a closed shop
 
wother1690 said:
not even comparable. Next time Sutton shows up he should need carried out.
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Sutton was horrendous in his pursuit of Alfie. In my opinion Sutton's comments regarding Alfie are born out of his racism. I 100% agree if he shows up he should need carried out.
 
High Society said:
Ok my apologies if that’s what you meant but it’s incredible you think we can all work together when 3 people and a guy on £60k plus ran a closed shop
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No problem.

Is the £60k guy your refer to Chris Graham? I haven't seen one bit evidence that proves he is getting paid this by c1872 (or has a company car) but it gets mentioned constantly on here. Show me the evidence so I can get on board and start bashing him.

Also what he earned from Rangers is of no concern of mine, if a director or chairman agreed to pay him that then that's their business.
 
I’ll try this again.

Does anyone know what questions Club 1872 asked Castore? We have already established they crossed the Rangers board by doing so.
 
High Society said:
Ok my apologies if that’s what you meant but it’s incredible you think we can all work together when 3 people and a guy on £60k plus ran a closed shop
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When you look at the numbers, the C1872 board have presided over a calamitous decline in revenue. So the idea that they had the skills and the business experience to go out and raise £13 million is hilarious.

When King first announced that he would sell to C1872, I was supportive. We had a long discussion on here about it. I made the point that to raise that kind of money, you needed a different approach.

You needed to be able to attract Bears who could put in thousands and not hundreds and to do that, they needed to change the model because nobody was going to put in £5,000 in return for one vote, no shares in his or her name and the risk that they could get booted out by the C1872 board and lose all that money.

What they came up with was the Legacy Scheme. A good idea in itself but one that was never going to be enough. At £500 per donation, it needed 26,000 Bears to get to the £13 million. I don't think they ever got much over 2,000 and now they are down to under 1,200. But there was nothing else. No new ideas, no outreach to Bears that actually knew something about business and investing. Instead, the C1872 Board retreated into their shell. They pissed off Rangers and stopped communicating with the members. The only time they came out of that shell was when our group challenged them. Self-preservation, not the success of C1872, was the order of the day.

But apparently we should have all rolled up our sleeves and worked together. Our group would have been willing to have a dialogue on that basis but, other than a phone call with James Irvine - set up by Dave King btw - they never tried.
 
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