Jesus Christ! Now Dave King wants the club to love Club 1872 and let Chris Sutton back in!

Hillheadbear said:
When you look at the numbers, the C1872 board have presided over a calamitous decline in revenue. So the idea that they had the skills and the business experience to go out and raise £13 million is hilarious.

When King first announced that he would sell to C1872, I was supportive. We had a long discussion on here about it. I made the point that to raise that kind of money, you needed a different approach.

You needed to be able to attract Bears who could put in thousands and not hundreds and to do that, they needed to change the model because nobody was going to put in £5,000 in return for one vote, no shares in his or her name and the risk that they could get booted out by the C1872 board and lose all that money.

What they came up with was the Legacy Scheme. A good idea in itself but one that was never going to be enough. At £500 per donation, it needed 26,000 Bears to get to the £13 million. I don't think they ever got much over 2,000 and now they are down to under 1,200. But there was nothing else. No new ideas, no outreach to Bears that actually knew something about business and investing. Instead, the C1872 Board retreated into their shell. They pissed off Rangers and stopped communicating with the members. The only time they came out of that shell was when our group challenged them. Self-preservation, not the success of C1872, was the order of the day.

But apparently we should have all rolled up our sleeves and worked together. Our group would have been willing to have a dialogue on that basis but, other than a phone call with James Irvine - set up by Dave King btw - they never tried.
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Remember what could have seen as threats that were issued prior to your groups creation? It was all out attack mode from the beginning.
 
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Careca said:
Do you know? Your answers seem to indicate you do. Justifiable questions on behalf of the fans like is Ashley involved or stuff that’s got nowt to do with them?
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Stewart Robertson confirmed they’d broke his confidence and used commercially sensitive information. So I would guess it’s to do with money or strips?
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
No problem.

Is the £60k guy your refer to Chris Graham? I haven't seen one bit evidence that proves he is getting paid this by c1872 (or has a company car) but it gets mentioned constantly on here. Show me the evidence so I can get on board and start bashing him.

Also what he earned from Rangers is of no concern of mine, if a director or chairman agreed to pay him that then that's their business.
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So you aren’t concerned that the club paid someone to work with 1872 and 1872 didn’t tell the members? That’s the kind of transparency you expect from fans org.

Ffs laura and co resigned because Craig Houston went for a job with the club and didn’t disclose it.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
That's true, I was hoping they might have mentioned it.
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Do you not think it unusual that the didn’t? Personally it displays a pattern of secrecy that is not acceptable in a fans led organisation.

No wonder they have such little influence in the support if that’s the contempt they treat us.
 
Careca said:
Do you know? Your answers seem to indicate you do. Justifiable questions on behalf of the fans like is Ashley involved or stuff that’s got nowt to do with them?
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You’re missing the point
C1872 were treated with respect at a meeting with Stewart Robertson.
They chose to doubt his word and bypassed him by writing directly to Castore
 
You can tell DK is too far out the loop of what’s going on now or surely he’d have to be going in and out through the Club 1872 board for breaching protocol and forcing out members who whistleblew the breaches and disagreed with the 3 of them.
 
DK should lie low til May. We don't need a boardroom squabble while we are trying to win a championship and the riches that will bring. Our enemies in the media would like nothing more than boardroom civil war.
 
Edman said:
Do you not think it unusual that the didn’t? Personally it displays a pattern of secrecy that is not acceptable in a fans led organisation.

No wonder they have such little influence in the support if that’s the contempt they treat us.
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Possibly or maybe they felt best not to go there again after the fallout. Might have made things worse. They are making it 10 times worse on themselves now though by not addressing it.
 
Edman said:
So you aren’t concerned that the club paid someone to work with 1872 and 1872 didn’t tell the members? That’s the kind of transparency you expect from fans org.

Ffs laura and co resigned because Craig Houston went for a job with the club and didn’t disclose it.
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Is that not the reverse of what Craig did though? It depends on what the remit is. For example I'd love it if the club said they were willing to pay a salary to someone who would work with c1872 in order to grow member numbers, why wouldn't we. But I don't have a clue what his role was when RFC were paying him a salary.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
Possibly or maybe they felt best not to go there again after the fallout. Might have made things worse. They are making it 10 times worse on themselves now though by not addressing it.
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They have a pattern of secrecy and I genuinely don’t believe they respect the support enough.

Their job is to represent their members. Where were they?

The only question they ask at the AGM is one that interests Dave King. Where are the ones about customer service, season tickets during lockdown, the lies in George square?

If they aren’t up to defending the reputation of the fans then they should leave. They are only interested in cosy chats where they can finger wag at the club. They don’t put themselves infront of the fans so aren’t accountable.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
Is that not the reverse of what Craig did though? It depends on what the remit is. For example I'd love it if the club said they were willing to pay a salary to someone who would work with c1872 in order to grow member numbers, why wouldn't we. But I don't have a clue what his role was one RFC were paying him a salary.
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The principle is the same. The only thing is they were aware of this one and chose not to disclose it to the members. Hypocrisy imo
 
Careca said:
It most certainly does matter what they asked and I find the verbal gymnastics dancing round it strange in the extreme.
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Ffs they asked got answers, refused to believe the Managing Director and broke privelage
It doesn’t matter what they asked. Nobody’s dancing round anything.
You’re dragging this out when it’s all been explained many times before
They banned the Rev MacQuarrie who stood up against them.
They are a disgrace
 
Robert Marshall said:
Club 1872 wasn;t even formed when we had regime change, getting really pissed of at the amount of lies coming from the King / 1872 mouthpieces
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Club 1872 was a merger of Rangers First & the Rangers Supporters Trust.

Between them they had a significant number of shares & them voting with King helped overthrow the spivs.

Sadly Club 1872's leadership is a shambles & whilst I support what they stand for it's hard to support the current incarnation of the organisation.

Kings clearly a bit out of touch.
 
High Society said:
Ffs they asked got answers, refused to believe the Managing Director and broke privelage
It doesn’t matter what they asked. Nobody’s dancing round anything.
You’re dragging this out when it’s all been explained many times before
They banned the Rev MacQuarrie who stood up against them.
They are a disgrace
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The very reason for having a fans group in my opinion is to avoid the forelock tugging that led to 2012. If questions need asked to avoid similar then tough, privileged or not.

As no one seems to have any idea what these questions were (though you say it’s been explained many times before,) I won’t be taking the pitchforks and flaming torches approach just yet.

They are a disgrace in your opinion.
 
Careca said:
The very reason for having a fans group in my opinion is to avoid the forelock tugging that led to 2012. If questions need asked to avoid similar then tough, privileged or not.

As no one seems to have any idea what these questions were (though you say it’s been explained many times before,) I won’t be taking the pitchforks and flaming torches approach just yet.

They are a disgrace in your opinion.
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If, as an investor, you are given confidential information by company management, you don't then write to one of the club's sponsors/suppliers questioning the veracity of that information.

The questions are irrelevant. It is the breach of confidence that matters. The outcome is that the club no longer trusts C1872 and is no longer prepared to engage with them. That means that not only are C1872 not in a position to ask those questions, they are not in a position to get any answers either.
 
Careca said:
The very reason for having a fans group in my opinion is to avoid the forelock tugging that led to 2012. If questions need asked to avoid similar then tough, privileged or not.

As no one seems to have any idea what these questions were (though you say it’s been explained many times before,) I won’t be taking the pitchforks and flaming torches approach just yet.

They are a disgrace in your opinion.
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I’ll try again. It’s got eff all to do with forkock tugging. They were at the meeting as shareholders and asked questions about the Castore contract. They got answers and refused to believe the MD.
They had no right to try and discuss privelaged information that’s why it’s called privelaged
My opinion and the option of thousands of C1872 members
 
High Society said:
I’ll try again. It’s got eff all to do with forkock tugging. They were at the meeting as shareholders and asked questions about the Castore contract. They got answers and refused to believe the MD.
They had no right to try and discuss privelaged information that’s why it’s called privelaged
My opinion and the option of thousands of C1872 members
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I’m a member as well and want to hear both sides of the story. That is all.

Again in my opinion, if the questions asked of Castore were in the interests of the fans, then it could be justified.
 
Careca said:
I’m a member as well and want to hear both sides of the story. That is all.

Again in my opinion, if the questions asked of Castore were in the interests of the fans, then it could be justified.
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It’s private information. It’s not information that we as fans are entitled too. Otherwise it would be out in the public.
 
Careca said:
I’ll try this again.

Does anyone know what questions Club 1872 asked Castore? We have already established they crossed the Rangers board by doing so.
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Stuart Mcquarrie knew, but unfortunately, he wasn't told about it until after the event, despite being a Director of Club 1872
 
Careca said:
I’m a member as well and want to hear both sides of the story. That is all.

Again in my opinion, if the questions asked of Castore were in the interests of the fans, then it could be justified.
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It’s not that they only asked a question, I’m sure they broke confidentiality which put the club on the spot and open to action from Castore.
 
If he wants to let Sutton back in - presumably he wants the same with McLaughlin and the BBC? No?
 
bLuE PirAtE said:
DK should lie low til May. We don't need a boardroom squabble while we are trying to win a championship and the riches that will bring. Our enemies in the media would like nothing more than boardroom civil war.
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Dave King is not a director of Rangers. There is no board room squabble. If anything the board look like they are all pulling in the same direction, and are very united.
 
mart22 said:
Only in as far as dislike. Boyd conducts himself very differently from Sutton. One is a loud mouthed, bully racist, and the other is an analyst, ex Rangers player with a sense of humour.
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Yes that’s how we see Boyd and Sutton. They certainly don’t say the same about the two, which is my point.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
It’s not that they only asked a question, I’m sure they broke confidentiality which put the club on the spot and open to action from Castore.
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They caused problems for the Club and threatened its relationship with Castore. It wasn’t only the email, it was the fallout from it and subsequent reaction of Club 1872. I’m not privy to the actual content of emails but I was told by someone who knows that Laura’s email to Stewart was an absolute disgrace.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
No problem.

Is the £60k guy your refer to Chris Graham? I haven't seen one bit evidence that proves he is getting paid this by c1872 (or has a company car) but it gets mentioned constantly on here. Show me the evidence so I can get on board and start bashing him.

Also what he earned from Rangers is of no concern of mine, if a director or chairman agreed to pay him that then that's their business.
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I was a former c1872 director. He was paid by the club..
 
mully10 said:
I was a former c1872 director. He was paid by the club..
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So what was his role in C1872? And how did he get into the role given he was unelected?
Or was it understood by C1872 directors CG was a Rangers employee, and his designation was supporting Club 1872?
 
Dave King wants the money back for his shares. He made a mistake in thinking Club1872 would be the vehicle to do so.

Now that it’s failed he’s lashing out like a jilted ex blaming everyone else apart from Club1872 themselves.
 
mart22 said:
So what was his role in C1872? And how did he get into the role given he was unelected?
Or was it understood by C1872 directors CG was a Rangers employee, and his designation was supporting Club 1872?
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I don't really get the fixation on Chris Graham here. First, lots of companies pay people to do 'investor relations' and C1872 is an investor in Rangers.

Second, when you are running a business, you generally want to have people you know and trust in key positions. Dave King was chairman of Rangers and he wanted CG in there with him. All perfectly normal.

When Dave King moved on, CG was out because his face didn't fit with the new management. Again, pretty normal stuff. Apparently it upset the C1872 board but who cares?

So does CG still have influence at C1872? Yeah, probably and that is down to certain members of the current board. Should he have influence? That will depend on what value he brings to the table.

The issue isn't really CG, the issue is transparency and accountability from the C1872 board to their 'members' and that is what is really lacking here.That is also true of the extent of influence that Dave King has over C1872. Who is really running C1872 and is the C1872 board representing their members or Dave King?

And, of course, the financial performance of the C1872 board has been terrible.
 
Careca said:
The very reason for having a fans group in my opinion is to avoid the forelock tugging that led to 2012. If questions need asked to avoid similar then tough, privileged or not.

As no one seems to have any idea what these questions were (though you say it’s been explained many times before,) I won’t be taking the pitchforks and flaming torches approach just yet.

They are a disgrace in your opinion.
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If you accept that C1872 went direct to a supplier to verify and check up on statements given to C1872 by SR that he believed to be confidential and privileged information, do you honestly expect anybody is going to answer your repetitive question with any known details of it on a public forum?
Or, are you just endlessly banging on for the sake of it?
 
Hillheadbear said:
I don't really get the fixation on Chris Graham here. First, lots of companies pay people to do 'investor relations' and C1872 is an investor in Rangers.

Second, when you are running a business, you generally want to have people you know and trust in key positions. Dave King was chairman of Rangers and he wanted CG in there with him. All perfectly normal.

When Dave King moved on, CG was out because his face didn't fit with the new management. Again, pretty normal stuff. Apparently it upset the C1872 board but who cares?

So does CG still have influence at C1872? Yeah, probably and that is down to certain members of the current board. Should he have influence? That will depend on what value he brings to the table.

The issue isn't really CG, the issue is transparency and accountability from the C1872 board to their 'members' and that is what is really lacking here.That is also true of the extent of influence that Dave King has over C1872. Who is really running C1872 and is the C1872 board representing their members or Dave King?

And, of course, the financial performance of the C1872 board has been terrible.
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I'd like clarity on CG because there are many rumours, and claims being banded around. All of which feed into speculation and conspiracy theories.
Let's not forget C1872 are supposed to be entirely independent of Rangers. It's being said on this board CG was employed by Rangers, and practically was in charge of C1872. I've no idea if this is true, but I would like to know. CG most certainly was never elected as a director of C1872. It's a pretty big deal.
It's safe to say, in my opinion, DK has no influence over C1872 voting. The AGM resolutions he voted against were well backed by C1872 members. There were also no communications from C1872 that could have influenced their members to vote against the same resolutions DK did. So I believe C1872 directors continue to represent their members, rather than DK.
Retaining members has been a problem to C1872. Plenty of FF users announced cancellation of their memberships for various reasons. However, the assumption C1872 are the bad guys has never been backed up with convincing evidence. And they are now trying to address this issue by investing in an operations manager, and a marketing strategy. The expenditure was approved by the membership.
 
Hillheadbear said:
I don't really get the fixation on Chris Graham here. First, lots of companies pay people to do 'investor relations' and C1872 is an investor in Rangers.

Second, when you are running a business, you generally want to have people you know and trust in key positions. Dave King was chairman of Rangers and he wanted CG in there with him. All perfectly normal.

When Dave King moved on, CG was out because his face didn't fit with the new management. Again, pretty normal stuff. Apparently it upset the C1872 board but who cares?

So does CG still have influence at C1872? Yeah, probably and that is down to certain members of the current board. Should he have influence? That will depend on what value he brings to the table.

The issue isn't really CG, the issue is transparency and accountability from the C1872 board to their 'members' and that is what is really lacking here.That is also true of the extent of influence that Dave King has over C1872. Who is really running C1872 and is the C1872 board representing their members or Dave King?

And, of course, the financial performance of the C1872 board has been terrible.
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Tremendous post. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with some of what is being assumed, with the obvious exception of the fact it has been done in secret and without any mandate. Would it be a terrible thing for a King guided C1872 to hold some level of influence with Rangers? I do not see why it would be. The manner in which things are happening, however, is simply not acceptable.
 
Snoopproddiedogg said:
No problem.

Is the £60k guy your refer to Chris Graham? I haven't seen one bit evidence that proves he is getting paid this by c1872 (or has a company car) but it gets mentioned constantly on here. Show me the evidence so I can get on board and start bashing him.

Also what he earned from Rangers is of no concern of mine, if a director or chairman agreed to pay him that then that's their business.
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@David Edgar offered them a platform on H&H to put forward their side and they declined.
 
Tagsbear said:
I don’t think its very hard to work out, King is trying to sell his shares via club 1872, for what seem noble reasons in trying to give the fans a say, but from the outside looking in, Club 1872 seem to have lost the backing of the board, support of a lot of members, or potential contributors, for whatever reason.

King puts that blame solely on the Rangers board, but it seems to be a bit more complex than that and club 1872 has to sort itself out first and foremost, then the board couldn’t ignore them, if thats what they’re doing.

I never get involved in the fan group stuff, constant aggro, but that is my take on what seems to have happened.
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I could be getting this wrong but seems DK has difficulty selling his shares mostly because the board will issue shares against loans and so diluting the share value - and that would be to a fans group. However the board member loans of say £4m will always be £4m no matter the share value and so not lose? Almost as if it's deliberate and who wouldn't feel a wee bit bit miffed.
 
EH47 said:
If you accept that C1872 went direct to a supplier to verify and check up on statements given to C1872 by SR that he believed to be confidential and privileged information, do you honestly expect anybody is going to answer your repetitive question with any known details of it on a public forum?
Or, are you just endlessly banging on for the sake of it?
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Think it’s the last part…….
 
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