Serious Delusion amongst our support

Its-Sebo said:
Mate, although you're a bit weird I'm happy to discuss this stuff but you'll need to put a bit more effort into your posts because they're as clear as mud.

' at what point in time, assuming thats the point, do we make a comparison' – wit?

Can you rewrite it and I'll try and answer your questions?
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sorry should have said "from", just to be clear for you possum
 
ffs
I never even thought we would make the group stages WE have done fantastic in Europe this year.
our luck turned when Alfredo's goal was wrongly chopped off in Moscow.
 
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foreverblue said:
I was there today in the ground and was disgusted at the performance turned in by the team with the backing we have.

I don’t care where we were a year ago etc, if Caixinha was sacked yesterday I’d expect the team to fight for one another and play with purpose, something totally lacking in this side today.

The attitude of “look how far we’ve come”, something I heard numerous time at the whistle might seriously undermine our traditions and attitude of success, a total celebration of failure - we were absolutely abject tonight in all positions against a team that is below some “farm teams” (as a rapid fan called them). This constant attitude of “oh well we done well”’will seriously harm the culture of our great club - it needs fixed!
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Would like to think you'll be a wee bit embarrassed about this nonsense when you're fully sobered up!
 
Tpol_rfc said:
Would like to think you'll be a wee bit embarrassed about this nonsense when you're fully sobered up!
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seems like a perfectly valid point, why the aggression, the OP only expressed his opinion and stated why, you on the other hand are just a tool
 
Effort rarely trumps quality.

We still have along way to go if we are to compete with Euro teams. Look at our result history, we mostly came up short even with our Laudrups and Gascoignes.

Fan expectation exceeds the reality of our situation I'm afraid.
 
It wouldnt matter if we had Guardiola or Mourinho in charge the current set of players arent good enough.We need about 5 new players added to our team for us to progress or the alternative is to get a settled bunch of youngsters in the team and add a couple of experienced heads,We were up against a poor side who will probably be eliminated comfortably in the next round.It was a huge opportunity to make progress and unfortunately we were not good enough
 
Chastu said:
sorry should have said "from", just to be clear for you possum
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At the end of the sentence?

'at what point in time, assuming thats the point, do we make a comparison from'?

It depends what we're talking about, in this instance we're talking about the UEFA cup so you draw a comparison from our recent history in the UEFA cup:

2 years ago – Never got in it
1 year ago – Papped out in the first qualifying round
this year – Made it to the group stages, 1 win away from qualifying for the last 32.

It's clear, obvious progress that can't be ignored. It's disappointing to go out but the progress over the last year is encouraging. We can pretend we should be competing to win it, but it achieves nothing.

'We've come a long way'.
 
Its-Sebo said:
At the end of the sentence?

'at what point in time, assuming thats the point, do we make a comparison from'?

It depends what we're talking about, in this instance we're talking about the UEFA cup so you draw a comparison from our recent history in the UEFA cup:

2 years ago – Never got in it
1 year ago – Papped out in the first qualifying round
this year – Made it to the group stages, 1 win away from qualifying for the last 32.

It's clear, obvious progress that can't be ignored. It's disappointing to go out but the progress over the last year is encouraging. We can pretend we should be competing to win it, but it achieves nothing.

'We've come a long way'.
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no one disputes we have shown some progress, but its from a very low base and if thats your measure of success i dont share it, Simples!
 
foreverblue said:
I was there today in the ground and was disgusted at the performance turned in by the team with the backing we have.

I don’t care where we were a year ago etc, if Caixinha was sacked yesterday I’d expect the team to fight for one another and play with purpose, something totally lacking in this side today.

The attitude of “look how far we’ve come”, something I heard numerous time at the whistle might seriously undermine our traditions and attitude of success, a total celebration of failure - we were absolutely abject tonight in all positions against a team that is below some “farm teams” (as a rapid fan called them). This constant attitude of “oh well we done well”’will seriously harm the culture of our great club - it needs fixed!
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I don't think you know what delusion means to be honest.
 
Chastu said:
no one disputes we have shown some progress, but its from a very low base and if thats your measure of success i dont share it, Simples!
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It's not some progress, it's huge progress.

Success in Europe is never measured by winning the trophy because it's never going to happen. So that leaves it to be measured against how far you go compared to how far you've gone in recent attempts.

The majority of our support at the beginning of the season, taking all factors into consideration, said they'd be happy enough with getting into the 3rd qualifier. We blew past that and were a bawhair away from progressing beyond the group stages – how that isn't considered a successful run in Europe considering where we are is beyond me.

What progress is 'enough' for us to stop being pissed off?

Last 32?
Last 16?
Last 8?
Last 4?
Runner-up?
Winner?

Because apparently, we're undermining our traditions if we're happy with not winning it.
 
Kinbo said:
It’s not negative, it’s constructive. Rangers never became the most successful club in the world with that “look how far we have come” mentality.
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We never had to endure the the club being stripped to the Bare bones with no finances.. Most teams would have folded or faded into obscurity if they had to endure what we did. It"s fact that we do have opportunity to look back and say, look how far wev"e come in a short space from being almost non existent
 
williewoodburn said:
Effort rarely trumps quality.

We still have along way to go if we are to compete with Euro teams. Look at our result history, we mostly came up short even with our Laudrups and Gascoignes.

Fan expectation exceeds the reality of our situation I'm afraid.
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Exactly not one person in the Rangers support expected to be in with a chance on a december night to progress to the last 32 back in July if they do they are liars
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
You can't go from the Progres debacle to winning the Europa League. There's a process that the team needs to go through in between that involves improvement.

It's a boot in the balls to go out but there needs to be perspective. 14 games and only 2 defeats is an incredible effort and the 2 games we lost, we could easily have got something from them as well.

We have around 2/3 of a decent team. It's just about adding that quality in the middle of the park and the final 3rd now to take the team to the next level. That won't be easy or cheap but we need to find a way to do it.

Forrest, Sinclair, McGregor, Rogic etc ie their attacking mids/wingers are miles ahead of what we have and are the main difference between the two sides. We need to find players of similar quality to lift our team to the next level.
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People genuiely took the Baku song serious, I'm 100% sure of it.
 
Potnbear said:
We never had to endure the the club being stripped to the Bare bones with no finances.. Most teams would have folded or faded into obscurity if they had to endure what we did. It"s fact that we do have opportunity to look back and say, look how far wev"e come in a short space from being almost non existent
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thats a great sentiment and should never be forgotten, but we need to be looking forward now
 
Its-Sebo said:
It's not some progress, it's huge progress.

Success in Europe is never measured by winning the trophy because it's never going to happen. So that leaves it to be measured against how far you go compared to how far you've gone in recent attempts.

The majority of our support at the beginning of the season, taking all factors into consideration, said they'd be happy enough with getting into the 3rd qualifier. We blew past that and were a bawhair away from progressing beyond the group stages – how that isn't considered a successful run in Europe considering where we are is beyond me.

What progress is 'enough' for us to stop being pissed off?

Last 32?
Last 16?
Last 8?
Last 4?
Runner-up?
Winner?

Because apparently, we're undermining our traditions if we're happy with not winning it.
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we won in 72
 
Its-Sebo said:
Smashin

What about my post?
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you and i quote said "Success in Europe is never measured by winning the trophy because it's never going to happen. So that leaves it to be measured against how far you go compared to how far you've gone in recent attempts. " just reminding you of past glories and how wrong you are
 
Think it's going to be a long time before we reach the standards,heights and expectations of some Bears.I hope it comes before the attendances start to take a nose dive.
 
Chastu said:
you and i quote said "Success in Europe is never measured by winning the trophy because it's never going to happen. So that leaves it to be measured against how far you go compared to how far you've gone in recent attempts. " just reminding you of past glories and how wrong you are
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Sorry, am I missing the part where I said it's never happened?

You've still not responded to anything I've said, much like every other one of your posts.
 
Its-Sebo said:
Sorry, am I missing the part where I said it's never happened?

You've still not responded to anything I've said, much like every other one of your posts.
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I'm blocking this character, nothing but an Internet troll. Can do without that.
 
It just baffles me that some out there have this sense of expectation. To do a proper building job, a job that should have started in the lowest tier of Scottish football in 2012, you need time, patience and a bit of luck at times. Everything since then has been catch up and we've attempted to cut corners. We now look like we have a hungry, young manager who is desperate to succeed. He is going to make mistakes this year and will have to learn from those. His team is far from finished and it will need at least three or four windows until we have some genuine quality players at our disposal aside from McGregor. Anyone thinking about winning leagues and the latter stages of Europe this season was thinking more with their heart than their head.
 
Roger Smith Loyal said:
See this Vienna and Spartak are some of the worst "top" teams we've played recently.

Maybe, just maybe we aren't very good either. Surely their fans are discussing how they couldn't beat us comfortably.
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The reality is they are good sides. They wouldn't be in Europe otherwise. There's a bizarre tendency in our support to hugely underestimate how good European sides are.
 
We have progressed well this season . You can see we need to up the quality. However we have got to be smart and lucky in the transfer market. Just look at what Forrest supposedly turned down for Worrel £8mil. Would any of us want that kind of money even if we had it spent on him, I suspect not. The market we are in it's not going to be easy getting better quality in.
 
Team went as far as it could go imo. Never felt we were going to do it last night. They were no better than us but are through. Sickening.
 
The thread is just bizarre. I expected to open it after seeing the title and read the polar opposite of the content in the op.

You have to ask yourself a few questions

1) Have we exceeded expectation?

Emphatically yes is the answer.

2) Can exceeding expectations at any pursuit reasonably be constituted as failure?

If course not!

To take the op's contention to its natural conclusion then the very fact we are competing in the Europa League is a sign of failure in itself as we didn't win the league. Is the op going to admit then using his own logic that he is was celebrating failure by going to Vienna?
If course not because that would be nonsense just like the op.
 
Its-Sebo said:
Sorry, am I missing the part where I said it's never happened?

You've still not responded to anything I've said, much like every other one of your posts.
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we won before why not again, please explain why its never going to happen, pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me
 
I would never dream of buying a plane ticket (or subway) travel a fair distance to think I earned the right to slaughter the team. " every Sat we follow" and all that
 
Tpol_rfc said:
The thread is just bizarre. I expected to open it after seeing the title and read the polar opposite of the content in the op.

You have to ask yourself a few questions

1) Have we exceeded expectation?

Emphatically yes is the answer.

2) Can exceeding expectations at any pursuit reasonably be constituted as failure?

If course not!

To take the op's contention to its natural conclusion then the very fact we are competing in the Europa League is a sign of failure in itself as we didn't win the league. Is the op going to admit then using his own logic that he is was celebrating failure by going to Vienna?
If course not because that would be nonsense just like the op.
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are expectations always static or do they change as circumstances develop, answer me that, if your capable
 
Chastu said:
we won before why not again, please explain why its never going to happen, pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me
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Seriously?

We can't compete with the English Championship in terms of salaries and fees, we're not the only ones scouring the world for the best young talent as a result, we've a fucking immoral lady's front bottom syphoning off a huge amount of retail revenue and we have to make do with what we have. Financially we're out gunned.

Then there's the structure of European competition. It's weighted towards the better performers, who incidentally tend to be the wealthiest clubs.

More importantly though, we're playing in a footballing back water and for many of our fans success = being better than Celtic. There is hardly competition around here that promotes silky, free flowing football.

Finally, Leicester City mate? Once in a lifetime occurrence.
 
Elvis said:
Seriously?

We can't compete with the English Championship in terms of salaries and fees, we're not the only ones scouring the world for the best young talent as a result, we've a fucking immoral lady's front bottom syphoning off a huge amount of retail revenue and we have to make do with what we have. Financially we're out gunned.

Then there's the structure of European competition. It's weighted towards the better performers, who incidentally tend to be the wealthiest clubs.

More importantly though, we're playing in a footballing back water and for many of our fans success = being better than Celtic. There is hardly competition around here that promotes silky, free flowing football.

Finally, Leicester City mate? Once in a lifetime occurrence.
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Elvis said:
Seriously?

We can't compete with the English Championship in terms of salaries and fees, we're not the only ones scouring the world for the best young talent as a result, we've a fucking immoral lady's front bottom syphoning off a huge amount of retail revenue and we have to make do with what we have. Financially we're out gunned.

Then there's the structure of European competition. It's weighted towards the better performers, who incidentally tend to be the wealthiest clubs.

More importantly though, we're playing in a footballing back water and for many of our fans success = being better than Celtic. There is hardly competition around here that promotes silky, free flowing football.

Finally, Leicester City mate? Once in a lifetime occurrence.
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Here was me thinking us getting to the final in Manchester was an aberration
 
Chastu said:
what about Manchester?
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A success that is celebrated almost as much as 72, because it was a massive overachievement. But even that was a decade ago. The changes at our club since in addition to the changes made to the UEFA Cup into the Europa League since 2009 (the dropping of 3rd place CL sides into the last 32, plus the addition of a CL spot the next year for the winner, making it a more attractive competition to win) mean it is much more difficult to get to the final than it was in 2008.
 
Roger Smith Loyal said:
See this Vienna and Spartak are some of the worst "top" teams we've played recently.

Maybe, just maybe we aren't very good either. Surely their fans are discussing how they couldn't beat us comfortably.
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We're not very good. I think you're right in that.

However, I'd look at the games themselves on the nights and over the course of the group. Having watched the matches, in the flesh and on TV, my assertion would be that we SHOULD have taken more from the Spartak games. They weren't impressive and I think had we met our ability and shown the commitment and desire of the first two games, 4 or 6 points from those fixtures was achievable - very realistically achievable.

The thing for me is that I think this squad has footballing ability to genuinely win the league this season - that's not the problem, the start we made to the season for me showed that when firing on all cylinders the quality exists in the squad to win against the teams we need to beat.

No, our problem - as has been the case for a number of years now - is the lack of required heart and courage to actually reach the squad's potential. Without the character of real champions, this squad will win nothing. You can probably only coach so much of that out of them.

In reality, despite technical ability on the day, this team simply isn't good enough - but should be - to get through that group, which is arguably one of the most qualifiable-from (!?) groups we've had in modern times. None of the teams, even Villareal, really looked or felt like playing against the level of quality we'd usually see at this stage.
 
Chastu said:
Here was me thinking us getting to the final in Manchester was an aberration
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No, it was unexpected and we rode our luck at times. However, we came up against a side with better quality and had no cutting edge ourselves when it really mattered. You could argue we were done over again by the structure European competition, given we played a team far fresher and fitter than us at the time.

If you really want to use a previous achievement then you should have gone back to the 92/93 season Rangers team that should have made the Champions League final. That was a team with better balance, structure, threat and a more secure environment around us and we were done over by an incompetent governing authority and a match fixer/cheat. But in those days we could afford to complete with the top teams in Europe. Those days are long gone now because realistically, the odds are against us.
 
Coatbridge Chancellor said:
A success that is celebrated almost as much as 72, because it was a massive overachievement. But even that was a decade ago. The changes at our club since in addition to the changes made to the UEFA Cup into the Europa League since 2009 (the dropping of 3rd place CL sides into the last 32, plus the addition of a CL spot the next year for the winner, making it a more attractive competition to win) mean it is much more difficult to get to the final than it was in 2008.
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overachievement, you mean we didnt deserve to be there, f uck me thats harsh, yes the structure of the comp has changed, so what, its still a knock out and as we know a solid defence with ballsy midfield can win you games, ask Walter
 
Chastu said:
overachievement, you mean we didnt deserve to be there, f uck me thats harsh, yes the structure of the comp has changed, so what, its still a knock out and as we know a solid defence with ballsy midfield can win you games, ask Walter
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Of course we deserved to be there we earned it as you say with outstanding defence and taking our chances. But what would the odds have been for us to get to the final in December 07 when Lyon eliminated us from CL? We certainly wouldn't have been top 5. So we overachieved.
 
Elvis said:
No, it was unexpected and we rode our luck at times. However, we came up against a side with better quality and had no cutting edge ourselves when it really mattered. You could argue we were done over again by the structure European competition, given we played a team far fresher and fitter than us at the time.

If you really want to use a previous achievement then you should have gone back to the 92/93 season Rangers team that should have made the Champions League final. That was a team with better balance, structure, threat and a more secure environment around us and we were done over by an incompetent governing authority and a match fixer/cheat. But in those days we could afford to complete with the top teams in Europe. Those days are long gone now because realistically, the odds are against us.
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never said we won and yes we did have some luck but i would propose we made our own luck, if thats he correct term, by the way we played, agree with the 92 team being superior quality wise.
 
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