Michel Preud'homme
- Thread starter PalefaceRedskin
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ManhattanBlue
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't continue to go on about nearly winning the League with Twente given a manager apparently on the list and being ridiculed, actually won the League with Twente.
Which players from the Scottish Leagues have been sold on for "millions"? Our League simply doesn't attract or develop that raw talent to begin with.
I think it's clear that many managers are suited to one league, or a couple of closely related leagues (like the Dutch and Belgian). I don't think that necessarily translates to Scotland and it's a massive risk if he can man manage as effectively in a different culture where there is a core of Scottish players. Maybe he can, but it was the downfall of Le Guen who had an impressive CV - afterall, he'd never been fired and won stuff in France, right? It didn't translate to Scotland. By the same token, I don't think McLeish or even Walter Smith would have translated to the Belgian league very well.
McClaren won it what a decade ago? So you can't compare. And are you talking Scottish players or players in general? Just look what the tims have done. Wanyama, Van Dyke etc.
ManhattanBlue
Well-Known Member
How can we not compare? You referenced Twente in the post I quoted. Preud'homme took over directly from McClaren - one could argue his relative success was born from the Englishman's squad.
Wanyama cost Celtic about a million, Van Dijk over 2 million. That's not in Aberdeen's budget. Any examples of players brought in for small amounts and sold on for millions?
Wanyama cost Celtic about a million, Van Dijk over 2 million. That's not in Aberdeen's budget. Any examples of players brought in for small amounts and sold on for millions?
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
There is no perfect formula to guarantee success for our manager. There is no point in saying that McInnes is similar to greats of our past because he's Scottish and so we're they makes no sense. They were Scottish because every manager was Scottish in the past. If you go a bit more nuanced and say greats of the past were up and coming managers successful at lesser Scottish clubs then I think that's open to debate. But it would also fit the mould for McCall and Eck, neither of whom rank high in our pantheon. And, if we look to ape the men who most would say were our greatest, then Struth and Smith were promoted from number 2 so McCoist would be the exemplar and we should be going for Murty.
The past is no guarantee of the future when the criteria are so broad and the examples so limited. I actually think McInnes could be a good appointment but it's just wrong to say he's the best just because he's Scottish like Smith and Struth.
ManhattanBlue
Well-Known Member
Incidentally, it's Gent. Not Genk. And this was even longer ago than McClaren's Twente success.
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
In retrospect it's clear that Le Guen was never the architect of Lyon's success. It was the structure of the club and particularly his coach and head of recruitment who carried him. I certainly didn't realise that at the time but looking back, his failure was pretty obvious. We recruited the autotuned front man rather than the actual talent in the band.
The fact that MPH has had success and exceeded expectations consistently with a variety of clubs in a variety of leagues would certainly seem to add weight to the view that he genuinely is talented himself.
Gent or Genk, who cares. You know the point I'm making. If you want to be technical when was the last time McClaren or anyone from that list mentioned, won a trophy? And compare it to Preud'homme and his record.
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Southpaws
Well-Known Member
Many of those chuntering endlessly about McInnes being the only sensible candidate have suggested he will bring ‘stability’ by guaranteeing second place. Rangers needs a winner at this point, not a guy who has a very unremarkable, some would say ‘plodding’ management style and record.
MPH both as a player and a manager has the pedigree and traceable provenance of winner, something glaringly lacking in that of DM. Given that there is s large section of our support entirely underwhelmed by the thought of DM and the proximity of his tenure to those of messers Warburton and Caixinha he’d be under the cosh the first sign of failure.
To your hypothesis in regard to MPH and Aberdeeen why would a manager of his pedigree and track record go anywhere a Mickey Mouse outfit like Aberdeen? Unlike DM his CV is not underwhelming and has no catastrophic failure such as the one DM delivered in Bristol.
Read the DM threads, the majority view is second place and stability, won’t challenge Rogers, hasn’t laid a glove on him etc. Rangers need a winner, a progressive manager, a nurturer of talent, a coach who can supersede Rogers financial advantage with shrewd identification of talent with a an eye on profiting majorly on that talent.
DM has little or nothing of the above in his CV and is seen even by many of his cheerleaders as a stop gap measure to bring second place and stability. Then what? Another managerial change, hardly stability!
Couldn't have said it better myself. But you'll have the usual suspects on your case, saying with a higher budget McInnes will be able to do better. They have no evidence to back that up as he doesn't have the experience or record. McInnes may know our club, so did McCoist and look how that panned out
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
Exactly, too many in our support have been browbeaten into accepting that we are now at best second best. Hiring DM merely reinforces that thinking, giving the job to MPH makes an entirely different and resonating statement in regard to the clubs ambition, projected status and expectations.
Agree with you 100% mate. Appointing McInnes as manager, every team knows how McInnes sets up, including the media. They won't know how Preud'homme will set up initially. And Preud'homme has not one set formation from what I have read and saw, looks like he has a few systems he likes his teams to play.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Preud’Homne is aware of the Kenny Miller insurrection against the previous manager and whether he’d have the board neutralise that potential issue prior to accepting the role. That is my nagging worry for any manager coming in, especially one from the continent given our supports jaundiced perception based on previous senior player insurrection.
If Kenny allows his ambition and influence to sabotage another manager, it could set us back, Giggs was reputed to have done the same to Moyes at Man U. The board really has to put a marker down in that regard making it plain to the 37 year old that his coat is on a very shoogly nail.
That is not just a concern for MPH but for any manager coming in, Player power must not be allowed to prevail against the critical progression of the club to where it belongs. Beyond that I think MPH’s style and winning mentality would be a breath of fresh air.
Mr Aqua
Well-Known Member
I don't know much about MPH I will admit. He does sound impressive and the fact Porto and AC Milan were sniffing about speaks volumes for him.
But my main concern is can he do it on a smaller budget? I read on here that he spent 30 million plus in only 3 seasons. He'll get no where near that amount of money here.
But my main concern is can he do it on a smaller budget? I read on here that he spent 30 million plus in only 3 seasons. He'll get no where near that amount of money here.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
Pedro reputedly had 10m in one transfer window and there is reputedly a substantial war chest available for the January window, 3 x 10m is 30m, isn’t it?
I think Miller would accept a foreigner if he believes in him. I reckon Preud'homme would get the respect from all the players and players coming in, he was a world class goalkeeper in his time, his managerial record is excellent. He obviously knows how to coach his team, develop them and most importantly get results that end in trophies and leagues.
Besides, isn't Millers contract up at the end of the season? He'll probably not get a contract extension unless he goes in a goal scoring spree on contributes significantly.
Mr Aqua
Well-Known Member
Well I guess nobody actually knows that outside of the club. I can't see it myself, but I'd be delighted if it was true.
Fair enough can understand that.
You slated pedros cv though, only point i was making is that imo mcinnes cv is no better.
No, we think he'll step up from the Sheep and win the league, stop putting words in the mouths of others.
Similar to how McLeish stepped up from Hibs and Motherwell and Walter Smith stepped up from Dundee Utd assistant.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
I am not putting words in anyone’s mouths or indeed ‘taking them out’. Much of the narrative around DM is that he will deliver stability and guarantee second place.
When his cheerleaders are pressed for any evidence for this sudden upsurge in his management ability which will deliver titles, entirely unseen as yet, they vaguely mention DM having extra cash thereafter their opinions are entirely based on blind hope.
On here it is most certainly not. You are lying through your teeth if you think posters on here think 2nd place is an achievement and McInnes is the man to deliver it.
There is plenty of evidence in his ability. He took Aberdeen from a bottom 6 side to a cup win, other cup finals, 2nd place (consistently, even when Rangers were back) in the league. At this rate, he's going to put us in 3rd place AGAIN. Put it this way, if Preud'homme had done that job at Aberdeen, you'd be choking for him to get the nod. And realistically, it's all he could have done, winning the league is simply not possible when Celtic have a squad full of internationalists, even under Deila.
So you rather go with McInnes, who you said you "think" he'll step up and take us to the next level and challenge Celtic because he will have more resources which waa restricting him from challenging. All based on hope.
Compare that to Preud'homme who has a record for making teams into champions, when they haven't won a title in years. A man that can spot players, develop them and make them into assets for our club. A man who is tactically superior to McInnes.
You're comparing hope with McInnes to fact against Preud'homme, who's record speaks for itself. Strange thinking....
No, I'm looking at the evidence of how much of a mess the Sheep were before McInnes and where they are now. It's not as if they were sitting 3rd when our troubles started and just inherited 2nd place with business as usual. And he done this whilst developing and selling players for a profit.
Then look at what Preud'homme did for the club's he managed? You're not giving the Belgium a chance. He's turned clubs around and won them trophies. He's took clubs who haven't won a title in 25 years to becoming champions. He has a track record of this.
But because he isn't British, or knows our game he won't be able to do that with Rangers? Did Brenden Rodgers know our game before joining Celtic? He never played here or managed in Scotland. Do they play a Scottish style? Yet they're unbeaten? I just don't get why you're so against foreign coaches who clearly are better than Derek McInnes?
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Southpaws
Well-Known Member
You are a hostile little soul aren’t you? Lying through my teeth, really? Clearly you are only reading the McInnes posts which appeal to your sensitivities and not taking an entirely objective and what’s actually best for Rangers view of things.
Stuart Mcall delivered 3rd, 2nd, 2nd in three consecutive seasons of his Motherwell tenure on a much lesser budget than DM. In fact didn’t McInnes tenure at Aberdeen conincide with some of McCalls success? DM’s second places have coincided with the absence of Hearts, Rangers and Hibs and their subsequent playing catch up. He hasn’t had to contend with the pressure and media scrutiny heaped on Pedro, nor has he had to deal with the downright game changing cheating on a weekly basis.
Being given money and spending it wisely are two very different matters, DM might spunk our cash up the wall for all you know. And Walter was already assistant at the club when he got the managers gig, not plucked from tayside obscurity as suggested.
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Elvis
Well-Known Member
I admit that McInnes is not my choice. However, rather than look at managers I’ll be directing my gaze at the Board for this appointment. Getting it right is a hard thing to do as there is always an element of risk. However the least we should expect as a support is due diligence and a thorough look at a number of candidates. We can’t be sold on someone due to an agent, Google/YouTube or cretins in the press. The whole board need to be involved in getting and vetting the right man. If they take a lazy approach I’ll be fuming and we will all have been short changed.
spirit_of_93
Well-Known Member
Is Rodgers a good example he had extensive knowledge of the British game and had a CV nothing like MPH it was more like a Moyes.
The British game? The Scottish game is different from the English Premier league or you fishing?
SuperGers07
Well-Known Member
Can't believe this has went nearly 30 pages based on a planted story by the guys agent.
Guy was never considered??
Guy was never considered??
spirit_of_93
Well-Known Member
He’s from NI he knew all about Scottish football and managed in the English lower leagues. It’s hardly an alien environment he moved to.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
It isn’t like Moyes as he’s never stayed anywhere that long, but he has managed and delivered relative success at a much higher level than McInnes.
His record before Swansea wasn’t great but he kicked on with them and came close to giving Liverpool their first title in 20 years.
He’s proving himself to be a decent manager with Celtc, albeit with the deck stacked heavily in his favour. His association with Jose and his Spanish coaching odyssey have perhaps afforded him more perceived gravitas than he deserves.
No idea how we don't plan to talk to the guy at least. Is it because he isn't British ? None of the best managers in the world are British. Not one top 6 team in England have a British manager there's a reason for that.
Bolt
Well-Known Member
Ok, what all do you know about MPH apart from his Wiki profile that you would choose him 'any day of the week'.
NovaBears2
Well-Known Member
No doubt in my mind that if I was the one sifting through applications then Preud'homme would be regarded as an outstanding candidate and talks would begin.
So did Warburton. What's your point? He failed to adapt and teams had us all figurer out. Warburton underestimated our league. Rodgers didn't know about the Scottish game, he may have watched it as a kid growing up but you think a manager in England would have time to watch Scottish football?
Calvinist
Well-Known Member
Can I ask why he's not been considered ?
That proves absolutely nothing. I can write aliens have invaded Earth, sky sports understands. It means nothing. They're in the dark also, just reporting thinga to make you click it since its a big story.
spirit_of_93
Well-Known Member
Rodgers was a manager out of work who had never won a trophy, he had done ok at a big club in England and pretty well at a couple of smaller clubs.
He was one poor job away from being shunted out of the picture down south as has happened to so many before him. Comes to Celtic and finds it very easy. Maybe a few of the managers with good experience at EPL level would do much better than we think.
SuperGers07
Well-Known Member
I get you don't trust lads on FF or the media. But end of the day, we'll end up with a British manager. The club can't afford to make another mess of things.
Heart and Hand Podcast summed it up well. They'd board would not get away with messing up appointing a foreign manager and not making inroads, lesser risk homegrown, even if again there's a slight failure.
Club will play it safe.
It's not a question of trust. I just don't think the club would turn down a foreigner with an excellent record of winning, youth development and experience with turnimg clubs around for a British manager who is inferior. If that was the case the board should be hung, drawn and quartered for not performing their duty in getting us the best manager possible, regardless of nationality.
Roadrunner
Well-Known Member
That's an impressive record he has to be sure. Would be worth it just to be able to all turn up with massive perms.
Calvinist
Well-Known Member
If that is the boards stance they will deserve every ounce of criticism coming their way if the next manager also turns out to be a dud .
Turning their noses up at a guy like MPH with his cv as they want a British manager that knows the Scottish game .
F.ucking hell
That article by sky proves nothing. How many times have they said Sky sport's undertaands and got it wrong? They had Lemon as favourite for the Celtic job till Brenda took it. Sky is full of shite
SuperGers07
Well-Known Member
Indeed, but Heart and Hand summed it up perfectly.
The fans would probably forgive the board if the new man was 'a Proud Gers man' but fell short.
But certainly, there's no wriggle room if a foreign manager came in and failed. Just the way it goes sadly and the board would be slaughtered.
The fans won't forgive the board if they fail a third time. Questions will be asked and rightfully so. They'd be out the club if get this wrong. The fans will demand it.
The Lone Sniper
Well-Known Member
Indeed - this is the logical and smart course of action.
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