Portadown_Bear
Well-Known Member
I'm still gripping in hope to the fact that DocStone said it wasn't a done deal. Maybe its blind faith but its all we have to cling on to at the minute.
Michel Preud'homme
- Thread starter PalefaceRedskin
- Start date
I'm still gripping in hope to the fact that DocStone said it wasn't a done deal. Maybe its blind faith but its all we have to cling on to at the minute.
The Lone Sniper
Well-Known Member
Good in theory - bad because in reality, Scottish referees don't allow us the same privileges as other teams.
bornabluenose
Well-Known Member
Point taken ,but in all honesty, it may be the only route open to us for the foreseeable.
Unless, of course ,there is a rich arab out there who fancies taking a dip.
sk1n1873
Well-Known Member
Board have already said they will take their time and do their due diligence on getting the right man.
This doesn't mean go straight to McInnes and get him in without as much as speaking to other candidates.
You're correct.
But when it was time for them to replace Deila, they had names like Lennon, Moyes and Rodgers most heavily linked.
Rodgers was clearly the one we hoped they didn't hire.
That's my point here - of the two, McInnes has the weaker CV and reputation. He might be a better Rangers manager, which as you say we've no way of knowing, but is it not arguable that Preud'homme is the one who should be hired?
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
See, this is where I'm in a dilemma. Preud'homme has clearly won more as a Manager that McInnes. That might suggest he's the better Manager - or maybe not as its in a different environment.
There are others in a similar vein and there are 'media darlings' who've managed in the EPL who we 'think' might stroll it up here like Rodgers. I'd certainly have liked to have seen more trophies on McInnes CV but, on the other hand, the deck is very much stacked against any provincial team in Scotland. He has, in effect, achieved what would be expected of him. I'm not wildly enthused by his appointment (if it is him) but I'm not overly dismayed by it either.Personally, I'm at the hugely depressing point where I don't think the NEXT Rangers Manager will be the one to win us 55. I see our next Manager as being the one to get us challenging effectively over the next 2 seasons and to then be given just a single, genuine, tilt at winning the title. If he does so then great. If he doesn't, I see him being out the door and a new man brought in to try and stop the Dhims hitting 10. I will be delighted if whoever comes in wins us that title, so I hope I'm wrong.
So, for me, its 2 years stabilisation, laying the foundations, developing the structure, improving the playing staff each transfer window and getting us to a point where we can realistically match them (despite their pot of CL gold 'resting' in the bank) and then mounting a 'real' challenge for the tile. As I said, it's depressing but, I suspect, it's realistically where we are. I hope I'm very, very wrong.
Calvinist
Well-Known Member
I think the hipster tag is a bit off the mark . I'm all for MPD to come here and I'm as far removed from being a hipster , football or otherwise , as possible .
He's the man most suited as his cv is littered with clubs he's turned round . That's where his strength lies and why we don't need him here long term .
Bring him in , let him turn us around and thereafter leave once we are champions again . He's done it at liege , Brugge and al shabab .
Mcinnes , for me , is our tommy burns . He will bring stability after a series of blunders and give us a team that's hard to beat , however , it will be a team that's not good enough to win the league .
spirit_of_93
Well-Known Member
I see where you’re coming from but maybe we are too fixated on nationality it’s not like we’ve had loads of foreign managers. All that matters is whether he’s good enough some foreigners will be and some won’t exactly the same as Brits.
Agree though that being British and having knowledge and experience of the club and league is an advantage rather than a disadvantage.
Superman
Well-Known Member
The hipster thing was more tounge & cheek title and while he may be a better coach I think McInnes is a better fit for us at the moment. Either way I just want to see us winning again.
Superman
Well-Known Member
The vital part is we are becoming a modern club now. Never will we be in a position where one man is calling the shots on the football side.
Whoever comes in will have to work to a club system where everthing is already in place.
I can see the next 2/3 years being very exciting.
Rothbard
Active Member
Cameron Bell made a good point on the H&H podcast.
Apparently McLaren, Moyes, Pardew and MPH have all applied.
He said if you took the names off CVs like you would for other jobs in recruitment then you’re sitting there with an ex-England manager, ex-Man Utd manager and league winners as applicants.
On that basis, why would we even consider the Aberdeen manager?
Apparently McLaren, Moyes, Pardew and MPH have all applied.
He said if you took the names off CVs like you would for other jobs in recruitment then you’re sitting there with an ex-England manager, ex-Man Utd manager and league winners as applicants.
On that basis, why would we even consider the Aberdeen manager?
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Superman
Well-Known Member
I hope McInnes can. The model Celtic are using I would say isn’t a million miles away from where we were post 2012. A core of Scottish playes complimented with foreigners bought and sold to balance the books. Sadly due to Whyte we never got to see guys like Jelevic move on for big fees which were then reinvested.
I haven’t looked to know how correct I am but if you were to take Celtics strongest XI has that been assembled by spending millions upon millions? Off the top of my head maybe £15m max over 3/4 years?
Portadown_Bear
Well-Known Member
In saying that Rangers are a very different club to Liege, Brugge and Al Shabab. Players and managers tend to come here and love it. If he was successful he might just fancy hanging around for a while.
Rothbard
Active Member
That’s all very nice but Advocaat’s team played the best football I’ve ever seen from a Rangers side.
Two years later the leaping leprechaun basically had a rugby team with the Martian kick us off the park and physically dominate everyone.
Top XI I'm not sure.
Brown was over £4m I'm sure. Simunovic £5m reportedly. Sinclair £4m.
A lot of their squad has been there for more than 3 years.
And not long after, Eck had a run of games against them where we didn't lose. It wasn't until McLeish built a side trying to match up physically that he f*cked it.
But in truth, this is all a side issue. There's no guarantee McInnes would build a team like that either.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Because football isn't like any other job. You can see how good a job someone has done irrespective of their CV.
Pedro winged his way into our job on the back of a good interview when his CV was rank rotten.
the_baron
Well-Known Member
Been thinking this myself as well, any manager who comes in and tries to play nice football isn't going to be successful. We just don't have the money to do it.
We need someone who can come in and build a team who just go out and win at all costs, lets focus on how entertaining the style of play is when we're further down the line and winning trophies again.
No doubt our support will still moan like %^*& when we're winning ugly and grinding out results but I'd much rather be hard to beat than playing nice football but leaking goals left right and centre at the moment.
Rothbard
Active Member
Well that’s the point. I’m not averse to McInnes and understand the appeal but let’s not pretend that he’s anything other than the lowest quality of all those candidates.
BSPECIAL
Well-Known Member
Can't afford the others maybe.
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
Yeah but it's irrelevant that McLaren and Moyes had big jobs years ago. They've been murder for years now whilst McInnes is a young manager on the up.
CaptainCourageous
Well-Known Member
Moyes and McLaren are garbage.
Did McLaren not put his name forward for the Hearts job?
Pedro Caixinha had trophies on his CV - meant absolutely nothing as he wasn’t good enough.
Did McLaren not put his name forward for the Hearts job?
Pedro Caixinha had trophies on his CV - meant absolutely nothing as he wasn’t good enough.
Rothbard
Active Member
I think Moyes is garbage but McLaren isn’t.
Caixinha had a terrible % record and the year he won the “league” I think he was something like 8th before it went to the knock out phase.
I’m not overly concerned about McInnes getting the job but I do think MPH, McLaren and Pardew have better CVs.
JK1872
Active Member
It won't take 30-40 million to topple them. They're not the team they're made out to be which has been shown by them dropping points at home this season. Their first loss will fcuk with their confidence.
A decent manager could have spent what Pedro did far more wisely and had we not dropped stupid points then we'd be pressuring them. Add to that further strengthening in January and who knows...
Our dismal start to this season has set us back a bit, but a new manager and sufficient funding in January, a few slips up from them (Aberdeen WILL drop points) and the gap gets closed / puts the pressure on.
#55
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
Advocaat/McLeish and O'neil were interesting contrasts. Advocaat's first 2 years were the best I've ever seen us and I'd take that team to beat anyone ever in Scotland. But we then lost some crucial players - Gio, Albertz, Mols - and replacements didn't stack up quite as well. We lost Tugay and Reyna as well, didn't we? O'Neil then bullied us physically (with some lenient refereeing of the type we're even more used to now). And he happened to have Larsson who upgraded his hammer throwers a lot. McLeish changed our formation, seeing that our fast skilful players would wreck their 3 man defence and prevent their midfield pushing up. 433 nullified their three defender system until O'Neil was forced to go 4 at the back. That firmed them up against our attack and McLeish's poor recruitment saw to the rest.
That is my main concern with that reddit piece on Ten Hag - it reads like he came up with a system that worked spectacularly in the environment he is playing in, much like Eck's 433. There is a worry that the system just won't work out of that environment. Of course, he may well be technically astute enough to realise that and adapt again but it's always a risk.
See, this is where I'm in a dilemma. Preud'homme has clearly won more as a Manager that McInnes. That might suggest he's the better Manager - or maybe not as its in a different environment.
There was a thread the other day that highlighted major trophies won by Rangers managers prior to taking over the role at Ibrox.
In the main it highlighted the fact that a large percentage had never won a trophy.
The Ultimate Warrior
Well-Known Member
Think it stands with McIness body of work as a manager
Whats the top 5 things he has done? Who is his player - a guy he has developed, his best transfer, guy who has worked under him and went on to something, his top 3 results etc
I expect more than a guy with his CV
Kaiserweiss
Well-Known Member
Pish mate! Rodgers DOES play long ball, that's what carved the sheep and McIness and his tactics last week to shreds! Biton punting it to dembele! And that's a fact! It's amazing how you can say something I.E oh I will never play long ball stuff and all of a sudden people take it as gospel!
Rodney Wallace
Well-Known Member
Football show on BBC Scotland mentioned tonight that Mcinnes compo is 700k, and also that Pardew is now second fav at the bookies which means folk are either ITK or some random taken a large punt.
What I took from both points is that they both indicate Preudhomme is unlikely.
What I took from both points is that they both indicate Preudhomme is unlikely.
Germlin
Well-Known Member
I don't see how it would take up to £40m to match sellick. They improved with some smart Scottish buys, youth development, good loans and a smart cross border deal. We need to bring in a credible winning manager who will help entice upcoming stars and the DOF needs to deliver on youth and unearthing a couple of gems.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
That is because you are being objective and not just blindly trusting that somehow McInnes is suddenly going to blossom into the manager he clearly isn’t.
You can almost sense the petted lips of the McInnes cheerleaders when a realistic question is asked in regard to McInnes and his unremarkable track record. Many are saying he will provide stability but will be unable to challenge Celtc, that doesn’t suggest stability to me, it suggests more upheaval in a year or so.
I have said it a number of times,this must be a relatively strategic hire delivering a progressive successful manager with a three year plan which sees us challenging Celtc next season. The rest of this season should be used to see how close we can get with a really good January transfer window and some strong coaching.
The Rangers job at this time requires a proven winner who can quickly get the support onside, McInnes is not that and any early failure will see him with his back against the wall. The proximity of his tenure to that of Warburton and Pedro would afford him zero wiggle room.
Superman
Well-Known Member
Yeah that is why I said 3/4 years. Brown has been there 10. I think my point still stands. If somehow we managed to raise up to £15m purely to build a first eleven I don’t think we would be that far away.
Not sure where I said it before bug Sinclair & Dembele were £4m combined. If we scout properly and have the wage structure in place why can’t we do that?
hawkfalcons
Well-Known Member
and it also helps they have got the match officials in their back pocket to frightened to make a decision against them
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure about that. I think Celtic are eminently catchable due to the natural limitations of the SPL (no £4mill plus player comes here and it's hard to entice even £2mill plus players).
However, I'd say that it is arguable that Celtic have players worth around £2mill at least in every position of the first 11 and most of the bench. That doesn't mean they paid £2mill as some developed with them and a couple were their own youths. It also doesn't mean that they'd get £2mill for them now - due to age, I'd think Gordon and Brown would be worth little. But, for us to buy a player in contract to get similar calibre, I'd say that is fair.
We are short of that in too many areas to do it 'just' for £15mill in one close season. Especially remembering that strength in depth is important over a season. And that not all signings will work.
I'd think that we need to build over a few years. Only ever buy players for the first team and fill the bench with those we upgrade from unless there is really no depth to a position.
I'd argue that, from the current squad, we should expect that Wes, Jack, Candeias and Morelos and one of Cardoso or McRorie will be starters for a few years to come. £6-8mill more on signings might be expected to get another 3-4 long term starters. And then similar the next year. Given that not all good players will stay, it may take several years to get a first 11 back to where we want to be. Though I'd hope a good manager rather than an ok one would get us there a bit sooner.
We probably both think about £15mill would do it on the park but I think it will take longer and there will be wastage on the way no matter how good the boss do £15mill on the park may be £20-25mill spent. We can't do that all in one go and some will need funded by player sales.
Think you might offend a few people bro by basically accusing any bears who think we should not confine our search for a new manager solely to the british isles as a hipster.
Just a thought.
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
What about those who do want to confine themselves to the British isles but also do want to be hipsters?
Cathro's available, isn't he?
Take the names off the cv.
Who has/had the better cv?
The guy who won the title with a provincial/smaller/unfancied team in mexico.
The guy who has finished 2nd for a few seasons in a 2 horse league in backwater scotland.
Honest answer mate,
?
Factor in that he finished 6th in that Mexican league and somehow still won it due to some crazy structure that makes our split look sensible...
Superman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, agree with that. They have got guys like Griffiths & Armstrong, made them better over a couple of years. That’s what we need to do. Go for potential. Some will work, some wont - see Gary Mackay-Steven.
Would you have complained if we had been in 6th at the split but then won every game and ended up winning the title?
Highly unlikely but would it still count?
Would you have complained if we had been in 6th at the split but then won every game and ended up winning the title?
Highly unlikely but would it still count?
It's not what happened though. They have a regular season and then some sort of cup style knock out tournament.
They won the league though, whichever way you want to dress it up.
Anyway my point remains, take both names off the cvs.
Derek mcinnes may well turn out to be a more succesful manager for rangers than pedro was but his cv is not any better.
I would have picked the guy who'd done a good job at Aberdeen, based on this being consistent with the profile of most successful Rangers managers.
People dismissing Preud'homme because he isn't British and has managed in better leagues and won them. You do know the Belgium league is similar to the Dutch one? Where won of our successful managers was born? Preud'homme has a track record of buying players cheap and selling for profit, he has a track record for developing and he has a track record for good football, and winning matches, leagues and trophies.... But he isn't good enough or what we need right now. Right now we need to be second........ According to people on here.
chilebear
Well-Known Member
Player
Club
Standard Liège
International
Belgium
Standard Liège
Gent
Twente
Al-Shabab
Club Brugge
Individual
Player
Club
Standard Liège
- Belgian First Division: 1981–82, 1982–83[40]
- Belgian Cup: 1980–81
- Belgian Supercup: 1981, 1983
- Belgian First Division: 1988–89[40]
- Belgian Cup: 1986–87
- UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1987–88[40]
- European Super Cup: 1988
International
Belgium
- UEFA European Championship: Runner-up 1980[41]
Standard Liège
Gent
Twente
Al-Shabab
Club Brugge
Individual
Player
- Belgian Golden Shoe: 1987,[42] 1989[42]
- Belgian Goalkeeper of the Year: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991[citation needed]
- FIFA World Cup Yashin Award: 1994[9]
- FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1994[10]
- Best European Goalkeeper: 1994
- IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 1994[43]
So if Preud'homme was the Aberdeen manager, you think they'd win the league? No one who wants McInnes thinks he'd have us 2nd, we think with a bigger budget he'd win the league.
That's a hypothetical question. But I'll play along. The Aberdeen manager remit will not be to win the league as they're not big enough, Finacially or in stature to compete. Preud'homme would never be the Aberdeen manager because he is better than Aberdeen.
There is a reason McInnes is the Aberdeen manager and not thr manager of Club Brugge or anywhere Preud'homme has managed and succeeded at. McInnes got second because Rangers have messed up.
I'll hit you with a question. If Rangers got it's house in order, had a good manager with the resources we have you think McInnes would be second? Absolutely not. It's preposterous to even consider McInnes being second if Rangers was at full strength with manager, budget and players that we can attract. We got a second rate manager in Pedro and Warburton before. The same Warburton who almost beat McInnes with practically his championship team, if it wasn't for a dodgy free kick. Pedro did beat McInnes team at their ground.
Has McInnes ever brought in a player and sold for profit? His own players. He has no experience at a big club, or a big budget. McInnes has been sacked previously, Preud'homme has never been sacked from any of his jobs. Why do you think that is? Because McInnes has failed where Preud'homme has always succeeded at any club he's been at. If that isn't a sign he is a good manager then you clearly are biased and want McInnes in no matter what. I want the best manager possible for Rangers and I'm sorry, McInnes is not the best.
I think, based on who has made successful Rangers managers in the past (other than Advocaat but that's a special case with a blank cheque book), McInnes is the standout candidate and not to get him when they went for Caixinha was a mistake and to overlook him again would be negligent. And yes, if we were full strength and he'd finished 3rd behind us, I'd say the same. It's glaringly obvious he's the best candidate.
I think Preud'homme has never been fired because he stuck to what he knows well (i.e. the Belgian and Dutch leagues), didn't stay put for any length of time, and then swanned off to the Middle East for an easy ride. This doesn't scream successful Rangers manager to me.
Preud'homme hasn't been sacked because he's turned clubs around, who haven't won trophies in years. He has over achieved with Genk and Twente where he almost won them the league.
If he was just a man that stuck to what he knew, why did he win manager if the year is all the countries he's managed? Including Holland. It's football, it's not like he specialises in another sport. So I don't get your point regarding he stuck to what he knows. He bought the likes of Dante for peanuts and sold him on. And where did he end up? Look at the players he brought through for under a million and sold for millions. It's not luck or a concidence.
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