Argentine Superliga

drgriffen said:
Not 100% on this, but I think there was a ruling that players outside the country couldn't be selected. This was changed for Kempes as he was the best player.

Hadn't noticed that about Boca players. Can't offer an explanation, but from memory, I don't think of any real howlers in selection - Bochini was the big name left out for me that I would have selected (retrospectively).

Will have a read of the article later. Thanks.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/1878287.stm

Also read that Menotti simply disliked manager Lorenzo and how he had Boca playing.
 
Reports this is the team to face Nigeria:

DgfCsZHW4AEPuBC.jpg
 
Reports suggesting that Boca could be signing Mauro Zarate.

And, Udinese have offered $4.5m for Racing's 23 y/o keeper, Juan Musso. Always thought he has looked a good prospect although I do caveat this with the fact that I am rubbish at judging goalies.
 
drgriffen said:
Reports this is the team to face Nigeria:
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Rojo appeared in today's training XI with Salvio dropping out, Mercado moving to right-back.

The big talking points of the day are the photos of Sampaoli and Mascherano at training - the manager holding a notepad while Mascherano points to it and speaks. Mascherano also posted the photo on his Instagram.

Sampaoli looked a little lost and tense at the beginning of his press conference, confessing that he knows little of the 'virtual world' in response to all of the social media chat.

Messi's wife arrives in Russia. Her absence has also created rumours.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Who would you buy for Ibrox at this time? I would probably lean towards Ronaldo given what he's developed into. I think Messi is a better player, though.

Ronaldo has a team that works with him in a way the Argentine national side do not. As the Dr mentions, however, a chance taken and a penalty kick scored and Messi's record would have a World Cup and a couple of Copa Americas on it.

It's a funny old game...
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Even after what I said it would still be Messi for me. Watching him just brings a different kind of joy. Not quite the joy of seeing Maradona but something close.

What you both say is spot on. It’s always very fine margins at the top level.
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
What you both say is spot on. It’s always very fine margins at the top level.
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Even in this tournament, we see it. Messi scores the penalty, Caballero doesn't make the error and we're looking at a different group table. Of course that is not to say Argentina would still have beaten Croatia but the subsequent meltdown illustrated a significant issue with the team.

There is a reason Buenos Aires has the one of the highest numbers of psychologists per capita in the world. Earlier this year Sampaoli even said that he couldn't send every player to therapy.

Gerardo Martino is quoted in the papers today talking about the Argentine need for conflict and strife. They're used to it in life and transfer it into football. The media certainly agree...
 
Clachan Blue said:
Banega makes a difference to the Argentine midfield I would say. Good player, badly needed in that midfield.
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Agree that Banega makes a difference with his range of passing, but I still think it is a midfield lacking legs. For me, Nigeria have been poor and I would expect a better team to dominate Argentina in the middle of the park.
 
drgriffen said:
Agree that Banega makes a difference with his range of passing, but I still think it is a midfield lacking legs. For me, Nigeria have been poor and I would expect a better team to dominate Argentina in the middle of the park.
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Agree totally. Banega is a fine ball player and going forward his passing is a huge asset but Argentina absolutely need a Kante type player in there (As you pointed out in this thread the other day).
 
Jorge Sampaoli: "My players play with their heart - they are true rebels.

"This victory came from the fact that the players were convinced that they are excellent players."

"My players achieved a victory which is very important for the future. It's a good opportunity."

When Leo hugged me I was very proud and happy. I'm passionate every single day. I have been able to travel and share many moments with him. He knows me well and we have a common dream.

"We had to play with three midfielders and Leo on the right, trying to create opportunities. What the front three did in the first half stopped out opponents."

"The starting XI against France will depend on the skillset we need for that match. We will analyse that.

"I don't want to analyse the media. The media really needs to satisfy popular needs. They simply say what people want to needs. It is interesting to know why things happen, why the media fights to tell these stories. It's not only the fault of the media, it is what audiences expect."

"Every time Lionel Messi plays he shows that he is a fantastic player, above everybody else, but he needs support from his team-mates. Only then will he play at his best, like he did most of the time today.

"His human side is amazing. He cries and suffers, he is happy when Argentina wins. It's important he shares those feelings. Many people say Leo does not enjoy playing for Argentina, but I don't agree."
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Jorge Sampaoli: "My players play with their heart - they are true rebels.

"This victory came from the fact that the players were convinced that they are excellent players."

"My players achieved a victory which is very important for the future. It's a good opportunity."

When Leo hugged me I was very proud and happy. I'm passionate every single day. I have been able to travel and share many moments with him. He knows me well and we have a common dream.

"We had to play with three midfielders and Leo on the right, trying to create opportunities. What the front three did in the first half stopped out opponents."

"The starting XI against France will depend on the skillset we need for that match. We will analyse that.

"I don't want to analyse the media. The media really needs to satisfy popular needs. They simply say what people want to needs. It is interesting to know why things happen, why the media fights to tell these stories. It's not only the fault of the media, it is what audiences expect."

"Every time Lionel Messi plays he shows that he is a fantastic player, above everybody else, but he needs support from his team-mates. Only then will he play at his best, like he did most of the time today.

"His human side is amazing. He cries and suffers, he is happy when Argentina wins. It's important he shares those feelings. Many people say Leo does not enjoy playing for Argentina, but I don't agree."
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Is it just me who thinks he's talking too much about Messi? No doubt that's what a lot of the questions are about, but he should be able to answer them in a much more inclusive manner.

If they play like they did tonight against France then I think they'll go out.
 
I saw this quote on Twitter this evening:

"I interviewed Uruguayan poet Eduardo Galeano once. He told me Diego Maradona played as if the ball was glued to his shoe but Lionel Messi played as if that ball was stuck inside his sock. You watch that goal. Those 3 touches: Thigh, Foot, Finish and you understand what he meant."

@rogbennett, a Liverpudlian who works for NBC Soccer. It reminded of Galeano's 'Soccer In Sun and Shadow".

Here's an extract, the pressures that Messi and others also feel:

Diego Armando Maradona never used stimulants before matches to stretch the limits of his body. It is true that he was into cocaine, but only at sad parties where he wanted to forget or be forgotten because he was cornered by glory and could not live without the fame that would not allow him to live in peace. He played better than anyone else in spite of the cocaine, not because of it.

He was overwhelmed by the weight of his own personality. Ever since that day long ago when fans first chanted his name, his spinal column caused him grief. Maradona carried a burden named Maradona that bent his back out of shape. The body as metaphor: his legs ached, he couldn’t sleep without pills. It did not take him long to realize it was impossible to live with the responsibility of being a god on the field, but from the beginning he knew that stopping was out of the question. “I need them to need me,” he confessed after many years of living under the tyrannical halo of superhuman performance, swollen with cortisone and analgesics and praise, harassed by the demands of his devotees and by the hatred of those he offended.

The pleasure of demolishing idols is directly proportional to the need to erect them. In Spain, when Goicoechea hit him from behind — even though he didn’t have the ball — and sidelined him for several months, some fanatics carried the author of this premeditated homicide on their shoulders. And all over the world plenty of people were ready to celebrate the fall of that arrogant interloper, that parvenu fugitive from hunger, that greaser who had the insolent audacity to swagger and boast.
 
drgriffen said:
Is it just me who thinks he's talking too much about Messi? No doubt that's what a lot of the questions are about, but he should be able to answer them in a much more inclusive manner.

If they play like they did tonight against France then I think they'll go out.
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I haven't been overly impressed by France. It's almost as though they similar problems to Argentina in that they're struggling to put together a cohesive team.

However, the Argentine defence is erratic and unprotected that I'd be surprised if France don't score at least one. Basically what I thought ahead of today and each game.

I presume Sampaoli is only trying to protect Messi. He was more involved today but it’s apparent it’s Mascherano dictating the team.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Even in this tournament, we see it. Messi scores the penalty, Caballero doesn't make the error and we're looking at a different group table. Of course that is not to say Argentina would still have beaten Croatia but the subsequent meltdown illustrated a significant issue with the team.

There is a reason Buenos Aires has the one of the highest numbers of psychologists per capita in the world. Earlier this year Sampaoli even said that he couldn't send every player to therapy.

Gerardo Martino is quoted in the papers today talking about the Argentine need for conflict and strife. They're used to it in life and transfer it into football. The media certainly agree...
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Interesting. I just heard Tim Vickery say a similar thing in a slightly different way. He maintains there is something within the Argentinian soul which likes the psychodrama associated with the team and the scuffling nature of the progression. That feeling of just being alive but continuing anyway.

I would have thought getting the formation right would have been enough for everybody but obviously not:D
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
Interesting. I just heard Tim Vickery say a similar thing in a slightly different way. He maintains there is something within the Argentinian soul which likes the psychodrama associated with the team and the scuffling nature of the progression. That feeling of just being alive but continuing anyway.

I would have thought getting the formation right would have been enough for everybody but obviously not:D
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Mascherano after yesterday's game" “You have to know how to suffer." Sums it up.
 
Reports in Argentina suggesting that Sampaoli will use neither Higuain or Aguero, but play Pavon and Di Maria either side of Messi who will play the false 9 role.
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
Interesting. I just heard Tim Vickery say a similar thing in a slightly different way. He maintains there is something within the Argentinian soul which likes the psychodrama associated with the team and the scuffling nature of the progression. That feeling of just being alive but continuing anyway.

I would have thought getting the formation right would have been enough for everybody but obviously not:D
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How wrong you are!:D

There is the Manichean battle between Bilardismo and Menottismo that forever haunts the Argentinian football fan's soul.
 
I guess we'll find out shortly what performance-related clauses were in Sampaoli's contract - and which will be invoked if he doesn't step down.

Clarin are really laying into him, "pretentious" and "pompous". I feel a little sorry as I like Sampaoli and he may have been a decent fit to build a new era post-tournament. But he's made an almighty mess of this, albeit not helped by the players. Who really came up with today's formation? It might have been worth pointing out that Argentina don't have Xavi and Iniesta.

So who replaces him... will Gallardo fancy the politics of the job? Simeone's turned it down twice, third time lucky seems unlikely? Or perhaps Gareca who's done well with Peru?

It's a shame how's it ended for a number of these players. As Mascherano says, though, maybe they'll be judged a little kinder in the years to come.
 
drgriffen said:
This is the first time that Argentina, in 430 matches, have lost a competitive match scoring 3 or more goals.
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Just reading the squad list it looked really difficult for them to do anything. You and B.B. said so at the time.

I don’t know if there were other possibles but even to the casual observer like me it looked a really poor squad at the back and in midfield.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
I guess we'll find out shortly what performance-related clauses were in Sampaoli's contract - and which will be invoked if he doesn't step down.

Clarin are really laying into him, "pretentious" and "pompous". I feel a little sorry as I like Sampaoli and he may have been a decent fit to build a new era post-tournament. But he's made an almighty mess of this, albeit not helped by the players. Who really came up with today's formation? It might have been worth pointing out that Argentina don't have Xavi and Iniesta.

So who replaces him... will Gallardo fancy the politics of the job? Simeone's turned it down twice, third time lucky seems unlikely? Or perhaps Gareca who's done well with Peru?

It's a shame how's it ended for a number of these players. As Mascherano says, though, maybe they'll be judged a little kinder in the years to come.
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He seems a bit full on to be wholly likeable but I’ve liked watching his teams until now. This team have been incoherent.

Like you say though, it’s a shame that some great players go out in such a poor team.
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
Just reading the squad list it looked really difficult for them to do anything. You and B.B. said so at the time.

I don’t know if there were other possibles but even to the casual observer like me it looked a really poor squad at the back and in midfield.
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Said all along that they lacked legs in midfield. It was glaringy obvious and the performances highlighted this. A midfielder I would have taken was Ascacibar who now plays for Stuttgart. He's a bit like Stuart McCall in style - ideally he would have won the ball back earlier allowing Messi (and others) to get on the ball earlier.

I also would have taken Martinez. Not as a starter (initially), but used as a sub instead of Higuain. Again he has legs and can press high up the park as well as having the quality.

Defensively, there weren;t that many options but they could have set the midfield up better to protect the centre backs and say we'll just rely on the quality up front to get us a goal.

IMO, Higuain, Mascherano and Di Maria shouldn't have gone - who decided that they should is the $1m question.

They need a new goalie. Interested in your opinion of the Racing goalie, Musso. He's 23 and there is talk of him going to Udinese. I think he looks a decent prospect (not De Gea standard) but you are a far better judge than me on keepers.

 
BrooklynBlue said:
I guess we'll find out shortly what performance-related clauses were in Sampaoli's contract - and which will be invoked if he doesn't step down.

Clarin are really laying into him, "pretentious" and "pompous". I feel a little sorry as I like Sampaoli and he may have been a decent fit to build a new era post-tournament. But he's made an almighty mess of this, albeit not helped by the players. Who really came up with today's formation? It might have been worth pointing out that Argentina don't have Xavi and Iniesta.

So who replaces him... will Gallardo fancy the politics of the job? Simeone's turned it down twice, third time lucky seems unlikely? Or perhaps Gareca who's done well with Peru?

It's a shame how's it ended for a number of these players. As Mascherano says, though, maybe they'll be judged a little kinder in the years to come.
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Still reading that it would cost $16m to buy out his contract. Doubt he'll step down as who would hire him after watching those performances - think he used a different system in every game and they all looked bad.

I think he is a good manager who took the job too early. I actually think he would be ideal with the old guard leaving so he could get new, young players in who will want to impress. He'll be able to use his favoured pressing tactics which he could never do with the current group as they never had the legs.

Think they'll all be remembered as good players who went one cycle too far.
 
Sampaoli: 'It's very painful to be out of the World Cup after the effort the players put in, because it was a very tricky match. As for [whether I'll stay on], beyond the frustration and the pain, this is where I've chosen to be.'

Sampaoli: 'The structure of the game was clear for us, there were some things that we couldn't take advantage of, but that's football. We were up against a team who were very rapid on the counter-attack.'

Sampaoli: 'We had very little time when we took over, we qualified late on, we didn't have a lot of time before the World Cup, but this isn't an excuse.'

Sampaoli on all the chopping and changing: 'We have the best player in the world, and we had to try to create situations to let that player shine. We tried to put players around him, and on occasions we managed it, on others we didn't.'

Sampaoli: 'I think this was a frustration more than a catastrophe. I don't think there were *so* many differences between the two teams today, France did very well in possession ... Argentina had chances, we could have got the draw at the end.'

Sampaoli: 'Obviously, it's not what I would have wanted for this team, but given the short amount of time we had to work ...'

Sampaoli: 'When Maxi [Meza] came on for Pavón, we were struggling to find space, and we were solid in the middle, so I wanted to put a winger on who could help us open up the pitch and perhaps create a goal.'

Sampaoli: 'We shouldn't take any credit away from Mbappé, who had a great game today.'

Sampaoli: 'When you come up against a player of the quality of Mbappé, or Leo, or anyone at that level, you try and do what you can to contain them, but sometimes it's difficult.'

Lucas Biglia says he's stepping down from the national team, but that 'it's a decision each player has to take for themselves'. Sergio Agüero says he'll be available as long as the manager still wants him.

Mascherano: 'I hope Messi wants to carry on with the national team.'
 
Clarin mention family problems as well as further tax issues coming for Messi.

With regard to the former, it references an audio + video involving Aguero - he is apparently arranging a night out and talks of the "cute little things I love". Messi appears briefly saying "don't leave me out".

Rumours, of course - and they were denied a couple of weeks ago. I hadn't seen them. Messi, though, did cut a subdued figure throughout the tournament.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Clarin mention family problems as well as further tax issues coming for Messi.

With regard to the former, it references an audio + video involving Aguero - he is apparently arranging a night out and talks of the "cute little things I love". Messi appears briefly saying "don't leave me out".

Rumours, of course - and they were denied a couple of weeks ago. I hadn't seen them. Messi, though, did cut a subdued figure throughout the tournament.
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Been talk of family issues with Messi for a while. Don't know what they are but we'll certainly get plenty of stories in the coming days.
 
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