Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

Reformer said:
Given I joined in July, safe to say that is aimed at me.

I will put over 20 posters name on here in a post and @ them to confirm who I am.

@Grigo Yossarian

Will you as just 1 poster confirm I am 100% PUL please?

Sorry to drag you into this post mate.
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No bother mate. I don’t think it was you he was talking about anyway. But always glad to vouch for the great work you have done on this issue under an old name :D
 
Giffnock Blue said:
McGuire's stance has changed. There are signs that he's softening in his approach when he should be going for the jugular instead.

Celtic clearly see him as no more than a legal lightweight - an ambulance chaser. They haven't yielded an inch from their opening position.

If this was a staring contest, Patrick's just blinked.
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I watched McGuire in court, you could poke him in the eye and he wouldn’t blink. Celtic haven’t yielded from their position because they know the implications of that. McGuire’s duty is to what’s best for his clients not what the public think he should be doing. Some obviously no nothing about litigation.

A case like this is hugely complicated, especially as there’s more than one victim and more than one offender.
 
TinyRick said:
They're a national company, with associated offices in Scotland and NI.

Does nobody use try and verify anything before posting?
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Chelsea Compensation Scheme
Below is a quote from Bruce Buck. So any damages will be paid for by their insurers. Damages will likely be awarded from a list of types of abuse. Verbal/touching above or below the waist/kissing etc. I don't like to think of some of the options. Their insurance policy may of course carry a large excess clause and Chelsea may still have a bill. However because the enquiry demonstrated the abuse, then Chelsea had little option but to go along with the findings. In Scotland however, we have seen no immediate signs of an enquiry so placing the onus of blame on an unwilling party is difficult. Something I see a much of in this forum is the clamour for damages. There is little point in awarding damages against a boys club with no funds. The claimants would in theory have to sue but ultimately to no effect. Part of the delay with cases going to court may be to do with Thompsons seeking reassurances that any defendant has funds to pay damages. If not, it would be highly unethical to put claimants through the distress of the process with no likelihood of damages being received as opposed to being awarded. Prof Tomkins I thing suggested the similar when he said that an enquiry was necessary and would be forthcoming in due course.

Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck has met personally with 17 of the abuse survivors, with the club confirming compensation will be paid.

“While we implement the recommendations of the report, it is important that we also look to the future and ensure that abuse like this never happens again anywhere in football,” read Chelsea’s statement.

“Survivors of child sexual abuse are also able to claim compensation by writing to the club.

“Claims for compensation are being assessed and managed by the club’s insurer and the club will support survivors through the process.
 
Just a word on Thomsons and Maguire.

Their responsibility is to their clients, not to society and not even to justice. It is up to them to represent the interests of their clients and to pursue whatever remedies their clients want. They have a fiduciary responsibility to do the best they can for their clients and that means making the most watertight case possible.

That people on this thread are frustrated by how long they are taking is neither here not there. They have no responsibility to us. Our role here is wider than that of Thomsons. We are pursuing justice in a broader sense while we also want to see Celtic punished and damaged for the crimes they have committed. To that end we should be looking to put pressure on politicians, the mhedia, sponsors etc. etc. and which some of us are already doing.

Let Thomsons do their job and let us try to do ours.
 
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SenoraCuellar said:
I watched McGuire in court, you could poke him in the eye and he wouldn’t blink. Celtic haven’t yielded from their position because they know the implications of that. McGuire’s duty is to what’s best for his clients not what the public think he should be doing. Some obviously no nothing about litigation.

A case like this is hugely complicated, especially as there’s more than one victim and more than one offender.
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Thank you Senora. Too may people on here are too anxious to push this through and their hearts are leading their heads. One can understand their emotions, but as you saying so much paperwork will have to be gathered before pushing the button on this.
 
andrewmont1 said:
Thank you Senora. Too may people on here are too anxious to push this through and their hearts are leading their heads. One can understand their emotions, but as you saying so much paperwork will have to be gathered before pushing the button on this.
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Something like this will only get one shot. You cant just lodge a writ at court then build the case. So many statements typed, documents trawled. Witnesses precognised. Then the question of who will be the actual defenders. It will be one of the most complicated cases to hit Scottish civil courts ever I think.

Let the solicitors deal with that, the posters on here are doing a magnificent job in other arenas.
 
SenoraCuellar said:
I watched McGuire in court, you could poke him in the eye and he wouldn’t blink. Celtic haven’t yielded from their position because they know the implications of that. McGuire’s duty is to what’s best for his clients not what the public think he should be doing. Some obviously no nothing about litigation.

A case like this is hugely complicated, especially as there’s more than one victim and more than one offender.
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Couldnt agree more mate. This man has no duty to some on here who want to bury them.
I've never or have known anyone who has had to deal with this,if I do they don't want to talk about it and that is their right.
In fact I think he's playing this very well. I've no doubt he was very much aware of what has been coming out down south,now with Chelsea involved this is strenghining his hand as these clubs are putting up their hands and not even attempting denial it looks very bad on the way celtic are conducting themselves.
Remember this not a revenge mission for 2012 and if an enquiry has to be done on scottish football,so be it. I wouldnt want rangers to hide from it or any other club for that matter.
 
SenoraCuellar said:
Something like this will only get one shot. You cant just lodge a writ at court then build the case. So many statements typed, documents trawled. Witnesses precognised. Then the question of who will be the actual defenders. It will be one of the most complicated cases to hit Scottish civil courts ever I think.

Let the solicitors deal with that, the posters on here are doing a magnificent job in other arenas.
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You have absolutely called it there. If the defendant in the case for damages is an unfunded organisation (for example a boys club) then a law firm would be unlikely to pursue the cases. If for no other reason than someone has to pay their costs. I do recall from previous posts of yours that you have worked in the court system, so you will be well versed in the sheer volume and importance of the audit trail for evidence.
 
Dorrans said:
Mate you are now coming across as obtuse and argumentative. It's a shame your efforts don't seem to have borne fruit, but that doesn't mean others have met with the same response. Maybe it would be best to leave matters to them rather than demanding details of responses and potentially sensitive contact details?
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Agree mate. Thank you
 
andrewmont1 said:
Chelsea Compensation Scheme
Below is a quote from Bruce Buck. So any damages will be paid for by their insurers. Damages will likely be awarded from a list of types of abuse. Verbal/touching above or below the waist/kissing etc. I don't like to think of some of the options. Their insurance policy may of course carry a large excess clause and Chelsea may still have a bill. However because the enquiry demonstrated the abuse, then Chelsea had little option but to go along with the findings. In Scotland however, we have seen no immediate signs of an enquiry so placing the onus of blame on an unwilling party is difficult. Something I see a much of in this forum is the clamour for damages. There is little point in awarding damages against a boys club with no funds. The claimants would in theory have to sue but ultimately to no effect. Part of the delay with cases going to court may be to do with Thompsons seeking reassurances that any defendant has funds to pay damages. If not, it would be highly unethical to put claimants through the distress of the process with no likelihood of damages being received as opposed to being awarded. Prof Tomkins I thing suggested the similar when he said that an enquiry was necessary and would be forthcoming in due course.

Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck has met personally with 17 of the abuse survivors, with the club confirming compensation will be paid.

“While we implement the recommendations of the report, it is important that we also look to the future and ensure that abuse like this never happens again anywhere in football,” read Chelsea’s statement.

“Survivors of child sexual abuse are also able to claim compensation by writing to the club.

“Claims for compensation are being assessed and managed by the club’s insurer and the club will support survivors through the process.
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Chelsea’s insurer will, I’m sure, not be dealing with a club which employed the abuser for a second time. Or a club which went to great lengths to cover it up. Or a club which is directly linked to half a dozen or so convicted paedophiles. Or a club ‘like no other’.

Even speaking as a layman, Celtic’s insurer will surely tell them to do one. Perhaps if concerned shareholders of said insurance company become aware of this, they could seek assurances that the above points will be fully considered.

We have seen that the law can be altered to favour common sense over the legal technicalities in a civil case where nobody was physically or mentally harmed. This flexibility could surely apply in a decades long criminal case involving the destruction of hundreds of kids futures.

Anyone aware what insurance company is involved here?

Edit: Is for are. Too much Bordeaux wine in Bordeaux old town :-(
 
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IndonesiaBlue said:
Chelsea’s insurer will, I’m sure, not be dealing with a club which employed the abuser for a second time. Or a club which went to great lengths to cover it up. Or a club which is directly linked to half a dozen or so convicted paedophiles. Or a club ‘like no other’.

Even speaking as a layman, Celtic’s insurer will surely tell them to do one. Perhaps if concerned shareholders of said insurance company become aware of this, they could seek assurances that the above points will be fully considered.

We have seen that the law can be altered to favour common sense over the legal technicalities in a civil case where nobody was physically or mentally harmed. This flexibility could surely apply in a decades long criminal case involving the destruction of hundreds of kids futures.

Anyone aware what insurance company are involved here?
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Insurance companies are simply sophisticated bookies. The lead insurer will have laid off some of the risk here with other probably smaller companies who specialise in specific risk types. For example after the Scotland Ireland match and the poor lad fell to his death. I imagine there was an insurance aspect to that. If the insurance company has completed full due diligence and the insured party has made full disclosures, then the insurance will stand subject to afore mentioned excess clauses. If full disclosures have not been made then just like you and I driving a car, the insurance may not stand or may pay out at a reduced rate. But it is going to be a long time until this question arises for real.
 
ChinaskiBear said:
This is why folk are getting a bit exasperated by a lack of progress. Get that we need to wait on due process etc really do but this is happening every single day. They are openly mocking her and laughing. Twitter is fucking horrendeous but I bet a fair chunk of thier support think exactly the same.
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So what’s your suggestion? Fire straight in without covering every angle?
No chance. That would be silly. Please understand that there are things going on behind the scenes. If it gets you that upset then don’t view it.

Some of us on here personally know the Gray family. We all know that filth will deny and deflect. Let them get on with it. They are coming on here more and more. That tells you something.

I know like a few others on here what’s actually going on. They have screenshots of me all over their forum. You my friend need to realise this is a battle that will be won by us. Justice will prevail. Don’t let the filth get in your head. Don’t get angry.

Now I wish I could put everything we know and are currently working towards on the forum. We all do but it can’t happen. Remember what type of human being they are. Classless republican scum. They will do anything to protect that rancid club. And we are doing everything to bring them to justice and to their knees.
 
BlueNose94 said:
So what’s your suggestion? Fire straight in without covering every angle?
No chance. That would be silly. Please understand that there are things going on behind the scenes. If it gets you that upset then don’t view it.

Some of us on here personally know the Gray family. We all know that filth will deny and deflect. Let them get on with it. They are coming on here more and more. That tells you something.

I know like a few others on here what’s actually going on. They have screenshots of me all over their forum. You my friend need to realise this is a battle that will be won by us. Justice will prevail. Don’t let the filth get in your head. Don’t get angry.

Now I wish I could put everything we know and are currently working towards on the forum. We all do but it can’t happen. Remember what type of human being they are. Classless republican scum. They will do anything to protect that rancid club. And we are doing everything to bring them to justice and to their knees.
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For a long time (and still to this day), in any abuse or rape case, the best form of attack is discredit the victims and their supporters. To cast doubt. This is usually because there is no there real defence. Two years ago, who thought this would be where it is now. The bears on here will continue to fight the good fight. They will probably see no thanks for what they have done, but no one should under value their achievements so far and what will come. Pandora’s box has been opened, the lid won’t go back on.
 
BlueNose94 said:
So what’s your suggestion? Fire straight in without covering every angle?
No chance. That would be silly. Please understand that there are things going on behind the scenes. If it gets you that upset then don’t view it.

Some of us on here personally know the Gray family. We all know that filth will deny and deflect. Let them get on with it. They are coming on here more and more. That tells you something.

I know like a few others on here what’s actually going on. They have screenshots of me all over their forum. You my friend need to realise this is a battle that will be won by us. Justice will prevail. Don’t let the filth get in your head. Don’t get angry.

Now I wish I could put everything we know and are currently working towards on the forum. We all do but it can’t happen. Remember what type of human being they are. Classless republican scum. They will do anything to protect that rancid club. And we are doing everything to bring them to justice and to their knees.
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I get that and take it on board. I have spoken to the sister on twitter bit would not claim to know any of them. You are correct in that it makes my blood boil. It's hard to remain patient when you see stuff like that every day hence why I dont try anymore firefighting them. What are the press up here doing ffs? Imagine that this was happening to victims down south? It would be on the national news. Its horrendeous and not healthy to witness.
 
SenoraCuellar said:
For a long time (and still to this day), in any abuse or rape case, the best form of attack is discredit the victims and their supporters. To cast doubt. This is usually because there is no there real defence. Two years ago, who thought this would be where it is now. The bears on here will continue to fight the good fight. They will probably see no thanks for what they have done, but no one should under value their achievements so far and what will come. Pandora’s box has been opened, the lid won’t go back on.
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Agree my friend. But personally I want no thanks. I can honestly say none of us do. We just want justice in our wee country. And maybe one day it will come out what we’ve done. Who knows?

We’re just normal people who got together and said right let’s go. Let’s see what we can do. All of us going in different directions for one aim. Some of the things we’ve done in the background has honestly brought me to tears. Listening to the truth. Getting people to hear the truth. We’re trying our hardest everyday.
 
andrewmont1 said:
Insurance companies are simply sophisticated bookies. The lead insurer will have laid off some of the risk here with other probably smaller companies who specialise in specific risk types. For example after the Scotland Ireland match and the poor lad fell to his death. I imagine there was an insurance aspect to that. If the insurance company has completed full due diligence and the insured party has made full disclosures, then the insurance will stand subject to afore mentioned excess clauses. If full disclosures have not been made then just like you and I driving a car, the insurance may not stand or may pay out at a reduced rate. But it is going to be a long time until this question arises for real.
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Thanks Andrew. I’m sure the following question may have been asked a while back. If Celtic’s insurer was X from 1966 until 1995ish then Y from Fergus time until now, who would be liable. If it’s X and X is no longer around or was swallowed up, who would be hit with the claim now?

While I hope whatever company is being dumped with this stuff now will tell Celtic to get lost, I’d rather the victims were suitably compensated from whatever source. That’s only human. But common sense and justice would say that Celtic should pay this out of their own assets (even if it puts them out of business), then if these run out the insurers should pick up the rest.

It looks like taking a long time as you say, something which plays right into their hands.
 
ChinaskiBear said:
I get that and take it on board. I have spoken to the sister on twitter bit would not claim to know any of them. You are correct in that it makes my blood boil. It's hard to remain patient when you see stuff like that every day hence why I dont try anymore firefighting them. What are the press up here doing ffs? Imagine that this was happening to victims down south? It would be on the national news. Its horrendeous and not healthy to witness.
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Unfortunately the SNP rely on the republican vote. As simple as that
 
I was catching up with someone today in a pub in Lothian Road. He is a Hibs fan who is also a Protestant and a Unionist. He was going on about Rangers fans smashing up Rugby Park and when I told him the filth had done the same earlier this year he denied this had ever happened because there was nothing about it in the media. When I put him right about that he genuinely laughed his head off as he thought I was making it up.
Anyway, concerned at this, I then probed him further regarding the biggest paedophile scandal in British football. He thought I was talking about Chelsea but when I mentioned it was Celtic he genuinely didn’t have a clue about this and it was the first he’d heard about it. He listened quietly as I explained the ‘ seperate entity ‘ nonsense and agreed this was absurd.
However the whole conversation just highlighted to me how much control the filth have over the narrative that gets fed down to the general public and the huge battle ahead the victims will have to face to get any justice whatsoever. Celtic basically run this whole country mafia style and most of the population are completely unaware.
Even trying to enlighten them is an uphill struggle as most of them really aren’t interested because to them , it’s not something that threatens their livelihood, and the bloke I met today will go the pub tonight to have a good old blether with his Hibs and Hearts mates and he’ll have already forgotten what I told him about young children being abused.
 
IndonesiaBlue said:
Thanks Andrew. I’m sure the following question may have been asked a while back. If Celtic’s insurer was X from 1966 until 1995ish then Y from Fergus time until now, who would be liable. If it’s X and X is no longer around or was swallowed up, who would be hit with the claim now?

While I hope whatever company is being dumped with this stuff now will tell Celtic to get lost, I’d rather the victims were suitably compensated from whatever source. That’s only human. But common sense and justice would say that Celtic should pay this out of their own assets (even if it puts them out of business), then if these run out the insurers should pick up the rest.

It looks like taking a long time as you say, something which plays right into their hands.
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Subject to any historical exclusions, the current insurer will be liable. Unless they have exclusions. Lets say you have private medical cover and fail to mention a pre existing condition which you know about. You then try to claim for treatment on this condition. The insurer will send for your medical records and your claim will not be allowed. Delays will work in 2 ways perhaps. One, potential claimants will be getting older and may pass before a claim is raised. Two, in a situation like this the ongoing reputational damage to the brand may, from a commercial perspective, inflict more financial damage than any given claim. As others have said today, you simply have to take a step back emotionally from this and see it go through under due process.
 
burgh blue said:
don't know who mr mcguire has been speaking to but any of the c***s i have spoken to do not believe any of this happened
or will not admit to it !

WATP
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That is them in denial but in doing so they are calling the victims and their families liars . They must be the only idiots in Scotland and beyond who don’t believe it happened but WE all know and so does the c*lt*c board know although they also are in denial and this might surprise you o_O but Big Jock Knew :rolleyes: but then again it’s not got anything to do with them o_O ....YAWWNNN!!!
 
longtimedead said:
Let us not forget that children were made to phone home with fictitious results from fictitious overseas tournaments.

No doubt they were abused during that time.

Moreover, taking them somewhere that was not intended without parental consent is abduction.
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Good point longtime , abduction and proving once again what cheating lying bastards they were and still are :mad: .
 
mdingwall said:
Monsters walk among us. :(
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"She doesn't want the truth, she wants to make a quick buck on the back of her son's allegations."
He's not trolling at all, is he? Dirty, lying bastard. He's no more than a paedophile enabler.

In a later reply he writes, "Which part of my tweet is monstrous?"
They don't even see the evil in what they're doing.

Monsters indeed, MD.
 
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