Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

I’m sure the report will show abuse at other clubs but it’s about how it was dealt with and if these clubs were aware it was going on. I’m also sure it will show that about 90% of the abuse was at one club and THAT is why they need investigated.

Well if you look at it from a convictions point of view they have 7 convictions from one club Karbear.

He doesn’t think that club stands out compared to the rest ? He doesn’t think that’s a potential paedophile ring ? He doesn’t want to find out how many other paedophiles from that ring are walking about unconvicted with more children thereby at risk ?

He should be ashamed of himself.
 
reply to GAVIN NEWLANDS today....


Gavin,

Again many thanks for a prompt response this time.

I note again,that you refer to the independent report ,which is all well and good,but was ,in my opinion,done as an afterthought ,once the horrific sex abuse scandal at Glasgow celtic came to light and is still coming to light.
I also,note and respect,that Parliament is in recess at present,however,can I still ask you,whether you will support the motion for a full independent public enquiry ,as proposed by Gregory Campbell ,once parliament resits? And if not,will you ,yourself call for one on behalf of the victims of Glasgow Celtics sex abuse?.

I should also point out,that whilst it may seem we are highlighting one particular club at present,this is not to say,we will not endeavour to investigate and expose any other clubs,who are deemed to have sexual predators within their ranks,or indeed past historic sexual abuse crimes ,which need exposed and brought to the public attention.

As i’m sure you will agree ,any kind of child sex abuse is horrific and should be dealt with ,as you say ,by the police and the judicial departments in Scotland,however, I have to say,police Scotland and the judicial departments do not inspire any sort of confidence to carry out any proper,full and independent public inquiry into the horrific ,historic sex abuse,which has occurred at Glasgow celtic over the last 50 years and perhaps,may even be happening today ?.
Just recently,we had their ex-chairman Jack Mc Ginn admit in the press,he was told about the abuse committed on US soil but decided not to report it to the police....he should be investigated for perverting the course of justice at least and failing to report a crime......why hasn’t it been done?

At present,your fellow MP Humza Yousaf ,who masquerades as the justice secretary for Scotland wants absolutely nothing to do with this scandal and any investigation,for he does not acknowledge the victims correspondence,he does not reply to members of the publics correspondence,nor does he even mention any call for a full and independent public inquiry ,he seems to be more occupied by his twitter feed to bother about the more serious and pressing matters of criminality within this club. After all,was it not his dept ,who were responsible for losing vital case evidence in the case of the hanging effigies of protestants from within the stands at celtic park at a celtic v rangers match for all the world to see?, how can you lose vital evidence just like that?,it seems to me,like there is some ulterior motives and perhaps dodgy dealings going on in that dept and as matter of urgency,that dept should be investigated for its incompetence and culprits removed from office.

I should also point out,that previously,police Scotland were handed a list of 14 known paedophiles who were operating or associated with Glasgow celtic a few years ago,but to date,only half of that list have been investigated and convicted,which begs the question....what happened to the list?.....who else was on the list?...why has it not resulted in more investigations and convictions?.....and more importantly,who could it be protecting?.

DO YOU AND CAN YOU TRUST POLCE SCOTLAND AND THE JUDICIAL DEPT TO DO THEIR JOBS?.......not me ,the collapse of the cases against Charles green,craig whyte & co over their takeover of Glasgow rangers shows that,bunglers at best....can’t wait to see what happens with Alex Salmonds sex offences trial when it comes up.

This club has a historic back catalogue of sexual abuse and connections to other known paedophiles such as cardinal o brien,jimmy Saville,rolf harris to name a few,with photographs to prove it,but for some reason,all our countries MP’s just seem to want to bury their heads in the sand,turn a blind eye or whatever,but do anything but do the right thing,which is to get this club and its paedophiles exposed in full public inquiry.

As I said,we need a full independent public inquiry into Glasgow Celtics sexual abuse of the last 50 years announced and then we will go after other perpetrators within Scottish football.

Should you wish to discuss this on a face to face basis at one of your surgeries,I ‘m sure I and others whom you represent,would be happy to chew the fat with you over it,just let us know when you are available.


Kind regards
 
Well if you look at it from a convictions point of view they have 7 convictions from one club Karbear.

He doesn’t think that club stands out compared to the rest ? He doesn’t think that’s a potential paedophile ring ? He doesn’t want to find out how many other paedophiles from that ring are walking about unconvicted with more children thereby at risk ?

He should be ashamed of himself.

Exactly! His emails read like he’s a crime scene season ticket holder. He’s a disgrace!
 
reply to GAVIN NEWLANDS today....


Gavin,

Again many thanks for a prompt response this time.

I note again,that you refer to the independent report ,which is all well and good,but was ,in my opinion,done as an afterthought ,once the horrific sex abuse scandal at Glasgow celtic came to light and is still coming to light.
I also,note and respect,that Parliament is in recess at present,however,can I still ask you,whether you will support the motion for a full independent public enquiry ,as proposed by Gregory Campbell ,once parliament resits? And if not,will you ,yourself call for one on behalf of the victims of Glasgow Celtics sex abuse?.

I should also point out,that whilst it may seem we are highlighting one particular club at present,this is not to say,we will not endeavour to investigate and expose any other clubs,who are deemed to have sexual predators within their ranks,or indeed past historic sexual abuse crimes ,which need exposed and brought to the public attention.

As i’m sure you will agree ,any kind of child sex abuse is horrific and should be dealt with ,as you say ,by the police and the judicial departments in Scotland,however, I have to say,police Scotland and the judicial departments do not inspire any sort of confidence to carry out any proper,full and independent public inquiry into the horrific ,historic sex abuse,which has occurred at Glasgow celtic over the last 50 years and perhaps,may even be happening today ?.
Just recently,we had their ex-chairman Jack Mc Ginn admit in the press,he was told about the abuse committed on US soil but decided not to report it to the police....he should be investigated for perverting the course of justice at least and failing to report a crime......why hasn’t it been done?

At present,your fellow MP Humza Yousaf ,who masquerades as the justice secretary for Scotland wants absolutely nothing to do with this scandal and any investigation,for he does not acknowledge the victims correspondence,he does not reply to members of the publics correspondence,nor does he even mention any call for a full and independent public inquiry ,he seems to be more occupied by his twitter feed to bother about the more serious and pressing matters of criminality within this club. After all,was it not his dept ,who were responsible for losing vital case evidence in the case of the hanging effigies of protestants from within the stands at celtic park at a celtic v rangers match for all the world to see?, how can you lose vital evidence just like that?,it seems to me,like there is some ulterior motives and perhaps dodgy dealings going on in that dept and as matter of urgency,that dept should be investigated for its incompetence and culprits removed from office.

I should also point out,that previously,police Scotland were handed a list of 14 known paedophiles who were operating or associated with Glasgow celtic a few years ago,but to date,only half of that list have been investigated and convicted,which begs the question....what happened to the list?.....who else was on the list?...why has it not resulted in more investigations and convictions?.....and more importantly,who could it be protecting?.

DO YOU AND CAN YOU TRUST POLCE SCOTLAND AND THE JUDICIAL DEPT TO DO THEIR JOBS?.......not me ,the collapse of the cases against Charles green,craig whyte & co over their takeover of Glasgow rangers shows that,bunglers at best....can’t wait to see what happens with Alex Salmonds sex offences trial when it comes up.

This club has a historic back catalogue of sexual abuse and connections to other known paedophiles such as cardinal o brien,jimmy Saville,rolf harris to name a few,with photographs to prove it,but for some reason,all our countries MP’s just seem to want to bury their heads in the sand,turn a blind eye or whatever,but do anything but do the right thing,which is to get this club and its paedophiles exposed in full public inquiry.

As I said,we need a full independent public inquiry into Glasgow Celtics sexual abuse of the last 50 years announced and then we will go after other perpetrators within Scottish football.

Should you wish to discuss this on a face to face basis at one of your surgeries,I ‘m sure I and others whom you represent,would be happy to chew the fat with you over it,just let us know when you are available.


Kind regards

You’re some man mate. ;);)
 
Exactly! His emails read like he’s a crime scene season ticket holder. He’s a disgrace!

We’re gonna get nothing from these guys, but at least we have hard evidence that they’ve given every excuse under the Sun to avoid the issue.

They will be proven to have been on the wrong side of history.

Wee Gavin boy & his daft wee leader Nikla, it was all the tories fault why I was shite Sturgeon.
 
reply to GAVIN NEWLANDS today....


Gavin,

Again many thanks for a prompt response this time.

I note again,that you refer to the independent report ,which is all well and good,but was ,in my opinion,done as an afterthought ,once the horrific sex abuse scandal at Glasgow celtic came to light and is still coming to light.
I also,note and respect,that Parliament is in recess at present,however,can I still ask you,whether you will support the motion for a full independent public enquiry ,as proposed by Gregory Campbell ,once parliament resits? And if not,will you ,yourself call for one on behalf of the victims of Glasgow Celtics sex abuse?.

I should also point out,that whilst it may seem we are highlighting one particular club at present,this is not to say,we will not endeavour to investigate and expose any other clubs,who are deemed to have sexual predators within their ranks,or indeed past historic sexual abuse crimes ,which need exposed and brought to the public attention.

As i’m sure you will agree ,any kind of child sex abuse is horrific and should be dealt with ,as you say ,by the police and the judicial departments in Scotland,however, I have to say,police Scotland and the judicial departments do not inspire any sort of confidence to carry out any proper,full and independent public inquiry into the horrific ,historic sex abuse,which has occurred at Glasgow celtic over the last 50 years and perhaps,may even be happening today ?.
Just recently,we had their ex-chairman Jack Mc Ginn admit in the press,he was told about the abuse committed on US soil but decided not to report it to the police....he should be investigated for perverting the course of justice at least and failing to report a crime......why hasn’t it been done?

At present,your fellow MP Humza Yousaf ,who masquerades as the justice secretary for Scotland wants absolutely nothing to do with this scandal and any investigation,for he does not acknowledge the victims correspondence,he does not reply to members of the publics correspondence,nor does he even mention any call for a full and independent public inquiry ,he seems to be more occupied by his twitter feed to bother about the more serious and pressing matters of criminality within this club. After all,was it not his dept ,who were responsible for losing vital case evidence in the case of the hanging effigies of protestants from within the stands at celtic park at a celtic v rangers match for all the world to see?, how can you lose vital evidence just like that?,it seems to me,like there is some ulterior motives and perhaps dodgy dealings going on in that dept and as matter of urgency,that dept should be investigated for its incompetence and culprits removed from office.

I should also point out,that previously,police Scotland were handed a list of 14 known paedophiles who were operating or associated with Glasgow celtic a few years ago,but to date,only half of that list have been investigated and convicted,which begs the question....what happened to the list?.....who else was on the list?...why has it not resulted in more investigations and convictions?.....and more importantly,who could it be protecting?.

DO YOU AND CAN YOU TRUST POLCE SCOTLAND AND THE JUDICIAL DEPT TO DO THEIR JOBS?.......not me ,the collapse of the cases against Charles green,craig whyte & co over their takeover of Glasgow rangers shows that,bunglers at best....can’t wait to see what happens with Alex Salmonds sex offences trial when it comes up.

This club has a historic back catalogue of sexual abuse and connections to other known paedophiles such as cardinal o brien,jimmy Saville,rolf harris to name a few,with photographs to prove it,but for some reason,all our countries MP’s just seem to want to bury their heads in the sand,turn a blind eye or whatever,but do anything but do the right thing,which is to get this club and its paedophiles exposed in full public inquiry.

As I said,we need a full independent public inquiry into Glasgow Celtics sexual abuse of the last 50 years announced and then we will go after other perpetrators within Scottish football.

Should you wish to discuss this on a face to face basis at one of your surgeries,I ‘m sure I and others whom you represent,would be happy to chew the fat with you over it,just let us know when you are available.


Kind regards


Looks like he’s got a surgery tomorrow Tommy
 
fired off an updated email to an american news agency too with attachments...


Dear Sara,


I am writing to you in regards to a major sporting scandal ,which has been circulating within Scotland for at least 50 years now,where a football club called GLASGOW CELTIC FC ,has had 6 boys club coaches/employees handed jail sentences for child sex abuse offences,committed within the football club grounds and on tours abroad also,one of which was a tour to new jersey in the 1990’s.
One of these coaches has been jailed TWICE now,after attempting to regain employment within the club,after his first conviction and a club photographer for the clubs official magazine,was caught with over 250 photographs of children in his locker within the stadium,along with an ex-club chairman mr.Jack Mc Ginn,who has now admitted that he was told about the abuse committed in new jersey but did not report it to police back home in Scotland but went on to cover it up,along with others.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and this den of depravity needs broken down and exposed,this is on par or bigger than your own spotlight investigation and the penn state investigation....much bigger and spread worldwide,as this club toured Europe also,where ficticious football tournaments were created as a rous for taking the kids away to be abused.The kids were told to call home and state match results and scorers....when there never was any matches.
I have attached for your information a copy of a timeline of these historic offences for you to investigate hopefully.The similarity of these historic sexual crimes against children under their care,as I said,this runs parallel to your own sex crimes investigation ,which resulted in the film “spotlight”,it also runs systematically parallel with the sex crimes committed at your own PENN STATE football club, this is on the same scale ,with over 100 plus victims in discussions with lawyers on how to get justice and compensation for themselves.

At present,there are calls for a major,independent and transparent public inquiry to be held by a neutral body,but as yet,our own government in Scotland,the SNP party,led by our first minister Miss.Nicola Sturgeon have ignored calls for this inquiry and along with the justice secretary for Scotland ,Mr.Humza Yousaf ,have ignored all calls for an acknowledgement to the victims,or even to make comment on the historic sex crimes of this football club,nothing short of a national scandal and a world sporting scandal.

Some of the victims are alleged to have signed NDA’s ( non disclosures) to buy their silence but apparently there could be evidence of these lodged somewhere safe for the time being.There is also talk of a major documentary ,possibly on the level of the spotlight film to be aired,where this sordid den of depravity,will be in the main spotlight.
We really need,you and your media outlets to pick this story up and run with it,especially on the alleged crimes committed on AMERICAN SOIL.
These crimes have been committed and then covered up for 50 years,by a succession of club coaches and directors,allegedly involved in other corrupt financial deals,as well as being photographed in the company of some serious paedophiles,such as JIMMY SAVILLE, the UK’smost notorious paedophile and the UK’s shame....GLASGOW CELTIC FC are scotlands shame.

We have also made attempts to highlight this in local media outlets,be it national newspapers,social media,forums and radio etc,as yet,a few papers have run a few stories on it,but mostly,the papers are reluctant to put their heads above the parapet ,with the exception of a journalist called Mr.Marc Horne of the times newspaper,who has been delving into it and revealing the crimes to the wider public ,whilst the other newspapers employ lazy journalists who just cut and paste ,slowly but surely.We are fighting for justice for the victims of this football clubs sexual abuse crimes and need your help to expose these monsters for who and what they are,as you did with spotlight....CAN YOU HELP?....WILL YOU HELP?

Now, as stated one of the crimes committed,allegedly took place on AMERICAN soil in new jersey in the 1990’s,when the boys club carried out a tour there and the youths stayed with parents of the opposition players as we understand. I have posted below for your information,a copy of the article,which appeared in the Scottish newspaper the daily record in 1996,once an allegation into this abuse was made,I have also attached for your information,copies of many newspaper articles on the sex offenders convictions and reactions from victims and politicians here in Scotland.
Please note,that this particular boys club toured there for 15 years,so there could be potentially many more crimes committed and victims unknown to us at present .


Now,there are many articles on the internet available to see,with the main paedophiles convicted at present being, JIM TORBETT...FRANK CAIRNEY ....JIM MC CAFFERTY...GERALD KING....JOHN CULLEN.....with many more hopefully to be revealed in time.,,,google and see.

We know a list of 14 operational paedophiles associated to this club was handed to police in Scotland but to date only 6 or 7 have been successfully brought to justice,so there are potentially another 7 or 8 paedophiles at large somewhere in the world,perhaps in the USA?.
I hope you will seriously look into this story and in particular,the alleged crimes,which took place on AMERICAN SOIL and ask questions,as to why the police took no action there and why the parenst in question,decided to only report to the club and not the police,as any respecting parent would do.

I,along with others,sincerely hope that you will continue the fight against child sexual abuse crimes and take up the gauntlet and bring this sordid club down.

I would be grateful if you could also supply me with any other contact email addresses of journalists or police dept contacts ,whom you might think would investigate.


Kind regards on behalf of the victims
Thats knockout mate, what a letter
 
fired off an updated email to an american news agency too with attachments...


Dear Sara,


I am writing to you in regards to a major sporting scandal ,which has been circulating within Scotland for at least 50 years now,where a football club called GLASGOW CELTIC FC ,has had 6 boys club coaches/employees handed jail sentences for child sex abuse offences,committed within the football club grounds and on tours abroad also,one of which was a tour to new jersey in the 1990’s.
One of these coaches has been jailed TWICE now,after attempting to regain employment within the club,after his first conviction and a club photographer for the clubs official magazine,was caught with over 250 photographs of children in his locker within the stadium,along with an ex-club chairman mr.Jack Mc Ginn,who has now admitted that he was told about the abuse committed in new jersey but did not report it to police back home in Scotland but went on to cover it up,along with others.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and this den of depravity needs broken down and exposed,this is on par or bigger than your own spotlight investigation and the penn state investigation....much bigger and spread worldwide,as this club toured Europe also,where ficticious football tournaments were created as a rous for taking the kids away to be abused.The kids were told to call home and state match results and scorers....when there never was any matches.
I have attached for your information a copy of a timeline of these historic offences for you to investigate hopefully.The similarity of these historic sexual crimes against children under their care,as I said,this runs parallel to your own sex crimes investigation ,which resulted in the film “spotlight”,it also runs systematically parallel with the sex crimes committed at your own PENN STATE football club, this is on the same scale ,with over 100 plus victims in discussions with lawyers on how to get justice and compensation for themselves.

At present,there are calls for a major,independent and transparent public inquiry to be held by a neutral body,but as yet,our own government in Scotland,the SNP party,led by our first minister Miss.Nicola Sturgeon have ignored calls for this inquiry and along with the justice secretary for Scotland ,Mr.Humza Yousaf ,have ignored all calls for an acknowledgement to the victims,or even to make comment on the historic sex crimes of this football club,nothing short of a national scandal and a world sporting scandal.

Some of the victims are alleged to have signed NDA’s ( non disclosures) to buy their silence but apparently there could be evidence of these lodged somewhere safe for the time being.There is also talk of a major documentary ,possibly on the level of the spotlight film to be aired,where this sordid den of depravity,will be in the main spotlight.
We really need,you and your media outlets to pick this story up and run with it,especially on the alleged crimes committed on AMERICAN SOIL.
These crimes have been committed and then covered up for 50 years,by a succession of club coaches and directors,allegedly involved in other corrupt financial deals,as well as being photographed in the company of some serious paedophiles,such as JIMMY SAVILLE, the UK’smost notorious paedophile and the UK’s shame....GLASGOW CELTIC FC are scotlands shame.

We have also made attempts to highlight this in local media outlets,be it national newspapers,social media,forums and radio etc,as yet,a few papers have run a few stories on it,but mostly,the papers are reluctant to put their heads above the parapet ,with the exception of a journalist called Mr.Marc Horne of the times newspaper,who has been delving into it and revealing the crimes to the wider public ,whilst the other newspapers employ lazy journalists who just cut and paste ,slowly but surely.We are fighting for justice for the victims of this football clubs sexual abuse crimes and need your help to expose these monsters for who and what they are,as you did with spotlight....CAN YOU HELP?....WILL YOU HELP?

Now, as stated one of the crimes committed,allegedly took place on AMERICAN soil in new jersey in the 1990’s,when the boys club carried out a tour there and the youths stayed with parents of the opposition players as we understand. I have posted below for your information,a copy of the article,which appeared in the Scottish newspaper the daily record in 1996,once an allegation into this abuse was made,I have also attached for your information,copies of many newspaper articles on the sex offenders convictions and reactions from victims and politicians here in Scotland.
Please note,that this particular boys club toured there for 15 years,so there could be potentially many more crimes committed and victims unknown to us at present .


Now,there are many articles on the internet available to see,with the main paedophiles convicted at present being, JIM TORBETT...FRANK CAIRNEY ....JIM MC CAFFERTY...GERALD KING....JOHN CULLEN.....with many more hopefully to be revealed in time.,,,google and see.

We know a list of 14 operational paedophiles associated to this club was handed to police in Scotland but to date only 6 or 7 have been successfully brought to justice,so there are potentially another 7 or 8 paedophiles at large somewhere in the world,perhaps in the USA?.
I hope you will seriously look into this story and in particular,the alleged crimes,which took place on AMERICAN SOIL and ask questions,as to why the police took no action there and why the parenst in question,decided to only report to the club and not the police,as any respecting parent would do.

I,along with others,sincerely hope that you will continue the fight against child sexual abuse crimes and take up the gauntlet and bring this sordid club down.

I would be grateful if you could also supply me with any other contact email addresses of journalists or police dept contacts ,whom you might think would investigate.


Kind regards on behalf of the victims
feel free to shoot me down, but has Interpol been contacted https://www.interpol.int/en
 
We’re gonna get nothing from these guys, but at least we have hard evidence that they’ve given every excuse under the Sun to avoid the issue.

They will be proven to have been on the wrong side of history.

Wee Gavin boy & his daft wee leader Nikla, it was all the tories fault why I was shite Sturgeon.
What I would like to see is all correspondence to relevant parties and their piss poor replies put to press agencies around the globe and let the world know what a despicable shithole this country has become.
 
What I would like to see is all correspondence to relevant parties and their piss poor replies put to press agencies around the globe and let the world know what a despicable shithole this country has become.

We’ve still got a lot of positive things going just now that we hope achieves the real result we want Davy,which is justice.

To be honest there are so many of us working on this that it would be bloody tough to pull it together quickly.

Once we get the right people getting the proper result we can then refer back to embarrass nearly every MP in this country. Just think it’s not the top priority right now mate.
 
just emailed all of british footballs clubs,asking for them to call for and support a full independent inquiry into celtics historic sex abuse ,in light of the recent man city and chelsea revelations.
also pointed out to the scottish clubs in particular ,that a scottish mp called Gavin Newlands has stated that there was widespread sex abuse across the whole of scottish football and asked them ,if they had any sex abuse at their clubs and if so,what convictions were made.
 
We’ve still got a lot of positive things going just now that we hope achieves the real result we want Davy,which is justice.

To be honest there are so many of us working on this that it would be bloody tough to pull it together quickly.

Once we get the right people getting the proper result we can then refer back to embarrass nearly every MP in this country. Just think it’s not the top priority right now mate.
Grigo I hope when this comes to a conclusion that all those involved in evidence/information gathering which there are many contributors can set it out in book form, it will make war and peace look like the beano, as I said earlier in the thread, well done guys and gals, sterling work.
 
No harm in doing that but there is enough evidence out there already to dismantle Celtic's flimsy 'separate entity' nonsense.
This has been printed before, but is worth another read. It is an extract from the SFA Independent interim review. It absolutely rejects any separate entity arguement.

"Historical and current relationships between senior football clubs and grassroots clubs

3.69 Historically in Scotland, in some areas, community-based youth football clubs have come into existence, developed and grown with an identity shared with the local senior professional club. There are a few examples of this across Scotland and, in some cases, these are quite prominent.

3.70 The historical ‘value’ seems to have been that these community-based youth football clubs, in the days before football academies, acted as a prime environment for young players to practice, learn and hone their skills and, often, transition to a trial or contract with the senior club itself. Essentially, they were ‘feeder’ clubs but with a relationship that went well beyond the through-put of young talent.

3.71 In these days the ties between those community-based youth football clubs and the senior professional club were clear and strong. It was acknowledged implicitly and explicitly that the youth football club was a part of the ‘family’ of the senior club; acted as a ‘feeder’ for young talent; and shared a tradition, history and heritage with the senior club. The relationship was strongly established to the point that officials of both clubs knew each other well and interacted; officials of the senior club were often involved in the activities and profile of the youth football club; the senior club would allow the youth football club to freely use its premises and facilities; branding, badging, colours and strips were almost if not completely identical."effectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.72 When the senior club celebrated achievements, victories and successes this was shared by the
youth football club as much as commiseration in footballing defeat.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.

3.74 There are many downsides to this which sometimes overshadow the positives. Perhaps the
most evident to the Review has been the extent to which, at times, the closeness of this relationship
might, in the past, have manifested in a ‘closing of ranks’ if not a collusion. This is not surprising
since any “reputational damage” to one is therefore shared by the other. This evokes a
defensiveness that in no way serves the interests or the reputation of either well in the longer term.
However, this is so often the case with knee-jerk reactions and a misplaced sense of loyalty but it is
certainly not conducive to protecting young people from harm or reducing risk.

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

3.76 Although, particularly with the advent of club football academies, these relationships have
eased off, the Review is not confident that this has been addressed sufficiently satisfactorily to dealeffectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections
between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous
formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.77 Many individuals who had given the Review personal accounts of alleged sexual abuse at such
youth football clubs expressed intense dismay at senior club’s current assertions that former
connections were ended as this seems to them a thinly disguised attempt by the senior club to
distance itself from its past shared relationship and, with it, a shared accountability. The Review
entirely sympathises with this view.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

3.79 The Independent Review recognises that some senior clubs and community-based youth
football clubs may have taken steps to clarify their relationship over recent years.

3.80 Nevertheless, the Review concludes that this has not either gone far enough or been
completed. Issues of heritage, history and tradition are aspects of this and sometimes only act to
obstruct a move towards greater transparency and accountability across the clubs concerned.

3.81 The Review concludes that facing and resolving this serious residual issue properly and
completely will act to restore public confidence and especially that of the wider ‘family’ of the clubs
concerned for whom this is an active source of concern.

3.81 The Review believes that the leadership of the senior club should take the initiative in resolving
the residual issues arising from a close relationship between clubs where, in either, alleged sexual
abuse has been an issue. It is not enough to arrive at a constitutional and legal separation without
addressing the ‘mixed messages’ that perpetuate through continued shared name, brand, colours,
facilities and resources.

3.82 Where this continues the public perception, rightly in the view of the Review, is that the old ties
are as strong as ever and that these ties signify a deeper systemic problem which runs counter to the
protection of young people and the reduction of risk.

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."
 
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just emailed all of british footballs clubs,asking for them to call for and support a full independent inquiry into celtics historic sex abuse ,in light of the recent man city and chelsea revelations.
also pointed out to the scottish clubs in particular ,that a scottish mp called Gavin Newlands has stated that there was widespread sex abuse across the whole of scottish football and asked them ,if they had any sex abuse at their clubs and if so,what convictions were made.
Well in Tommy, be interesting to see what they think of Newlands comments.
 
Grigo I hope when this comes to a conclusion that all those involved in evidence/information gathering which there are many contributors can set it out in book form, it will make war and peace look like the beano, as I said earlier in the thread, well done guys and gals, sterling work.

Thanks a lot Davy. I think Tommy alone will be able to achieve a War & Peace book :D
 
This has been printed before, but is worth another read. It is an extract from the SFA Independent interim review. It absolutely rejects any separate entity arguement.

"Historical and current relationships between senior football clubs and grassroots clubs

3.69 Historically in Scotland, in some areas, community-based youth football clubs have come into existence, developed and grown with an identity shared with the local senior professional club. There are a few examples of this across Scotland and, in some cases, these are quite prominent.

3.70 The historical ‘value’ seems to have been that these community-based youth football clubs, in the days before football academies, acted as a prime environment for young players to practice, learn and hone their skills and, often, transition to a trial or contract with the senior club itself. Essentially, they were ‘feeder’ clubs but with a relationship that went well beyond the through-put of young talent.

3.71 In these days the ties between those community-based youth football clubs and the senior professional club were clear and strong. It was acknowledged implicitly and explicitly that the youth football club was a part of the ‘family’ of the senior club; acted as a ‘feeder’ for young talent; and shared a tradition, history and heritage with the senior club. The relationship was strongly established to the point that officials of both clubs knew each other well and interacted; officials of the senior club were often involved in the activities and profile of the youth football club; the senior club would allow the youth football club to freely use its premises and facilities; branding, badging, colours and strips were almost if not completely identical."effectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.72 When the senior club celebrated achievements, victories and successes this was shared by the
youth football club as much as commiseration in footballing defeat.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.

3.74 There are many downsides to this which sometimes overshadow the positives. Perhaps the
most evident to the Review has been the extent to which, at times, the closeness of this relationship
might, in the past, have manifested in a ‘closing of ranks’ if not a collusion. This is not surprising
since any “reputational damage” to one is therefore shared by the other. This evokes a
defensiveness that in no way serves the interests or the reputation of either well in the longer term.
However, this is so often the case with knee-jerk reactions and a misplaced sense of loyalty but it is
certainly not conducive to protecting young people from harm or reducing risk.

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

3.76 Although, particularly with the advent of club football academies, these relationships have
eased off, the Review is not confident that this has been addressed sufficiently satisfactorily to dealeffectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections
between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous
formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.77 Many individuals who had given the Review personal accounts of alleged sexual abuse at such
youth football clubs expressed intense dismay at senior club’s current assertions that former
connections were ended as this seems to them a thinly disguised attempt by the senior club to
distance itself from its past shared relationship and, with it, a shared accountability. The Review
entirely sympathises with this view.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

3.79 The Independent Review recognises that some senior clubs and community-based youth
football clubs may have taken steps to clarify their relationship over recent years.

3.80 Nevertheless, the Review concludes that this has not either gone far enough or been
completed. Issues of heritage, history and tradition are aspects of this and sometimes only act to
obstruct a move towards greater transparency and accountability across the clubs concerned.

3.81 The Review concludes that facing and resolving this serious residual issue properly and
completely will act to restore public confidence and especially that of the wider ‘family’ of the clubs
concerned for whom this is an active source of concern.

3.81 The Review believes that the leadership of the senior club should take the initiative in resolving
the residual issues arising from a close relationship between clubs where, in either, alleged sexual
abuse has been an issue. It is not enough to arrive at a constitutional and legal separation without
addressing the ‘mixed messages’ that perpetuate through continued shared name, brand, colours,
facilities and resources.

3.82 Where this continues the public perception, rightly in the view of the Review, is that the old ties
are as strong as ever and that these ties signify a deeper systemic problem which runs counter to the
protection of young people and the reduction of risk.

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."

This is a really good point TH. Can I PM you ?
 
and reply from GAVIN NEWLANDS just now.....

Dear Tommy,

The report I've referred to previously makes it quite clear that Scottish Football had a level of child abuse that is utterly unacceptable - and indeed any level of child abuse, in any football club or organisation, is utterly unacceptable. As I've stated before, this independent report was carried out by one of Scotland's foremost experts in child protection. I'm not sure who else would be better qualified to carry out such an assessment.

In terms of the motion at Westminster, Parliament is not in session just now so Early Day Motions cannot be signed. However, as I have said previously, it is concerning that the focus seems to be on one organisation to the apparent exclusion of the wider, systemic crimes that were committed for decades by individuals using their position at a number of Scottish football clubs and many, many other organisations.

Let me emphasise once again that all who perpetrated the disgusting abuse on children that has only recently come to light should be brought to justice and the full weight of the policing and judicial system brought to bear on them. And let me also emphasise once again that to focus on one football club and not acknowledge the other victims connected to other organisations and clubs is to ignore the reality of what is, without question, a shameful episode in our nation's recent history.

Yours,

Gavin Newlands MP
Paisley and Renfrewshire North



i wil post my response to this later


An utter joke response. It has not recently come to light. It has been known about for at least 20 years.
Also, if he is so concerned about other clubs in general, why are all clubs in general immune from any enquiry into historic sexual abuse enquires according to current SNP policy ?
 
For a few weeks a Tory politician Adam Tomkins had involved himself in this sordid business. However, don’t recall hearing much about him of late.

He’s still involved TT.

Lawwell refused to meet him despite two letters asking for a meeting.

The SFA ( Maxwell ) net him.

There is an exchange of emails between him & Willie Rennie on here from a few weeks ago, where Rennie expressed support to him.

In simple terms Maxwell told him there are cases in the legal progress that are relevant to the CFC situation, so he seems to be in a holding position currently.
 
This has been printed before, but is worth another read. It is an extract from the SFA Independent interim review. It absolutely rejects any separate entity arguement.

"Historical and current relationships between senior football clubs and grassroots clubs

3.69 Historically in Scotland, in some areas, community-based youth football clubs have come into existence, developed and grown with an identity shared with the local senior professional club. There are a few examples of this across Scotland and, in some cases, these are quite prominent.

3.70 The historical ‘value’ seems to have been that these community-based youth football clubs, in the days before football academies, acted as a prime environment for young players to practice, learn and hone their skills and, often, transition to a trial or contract with the senior club itself. Essentially, they were ‘feeder’ clubs but with a relationship that went well beyond the through-put of young talent.

3.71 In these days the ties between those community-based youth football clubs and the senior professional club were clear and strong. It was acknowledged implicitly and explicitly that the youth football club was a part of the ‘family’ of the senior club; acted as a ‘feeder’ for young talent; and shared a tradition, history and heritage with the senior club. The relationship was strongly established to the point that officials of both clubs knew each other well and interacted; officials of the senior club were often involved in the activities and profile of the youth football club; the senior club would allow the youth football club to freely use its premises and facilities; branding, badging, colours and strips were almost if not completely identical."effectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.72 When the senior club celebrated achievements, victories and successes this was shared by the
youth football club as much as commiseration in footballing defeat.

3.73 However, the Review concludes that if the relationship and history between the youth football
club and the senior club was so shared, so close, and so inextricable on positive achievements then
when alleged sexual abuse of young players formed part of the history of one then it too formed
part of the history of the other. A shared heritage is not confined to trophies, victories and
celebration. It also extends to defeats, failures, and deficiencies.

3.74 There are many downsides to this which sometimes overshadow the positives. Perhaps the
most evident to the Review has been the extent to which, at times, the closeness of this relationship
might, in the past, have manifested in a ‘closing of ranks’ if not a collusion. This is not surprising
since any “reputational damage” to one is therefore shared by the other. This evokes a
defensiveness that in no way serves the interests or the reputation of either well in the longer term.
However, this is so often the case with knee-jerk reactions and a misplaced sense of loyalty but it is
certainly not conducive to protecting young people from harm or reducing risk.

3.75 Where the Review has found that when allegations of sexual abuse have been made concerning
the community based youth football club our expectation would have been that the senior club
(almost like a parent) would have taken steps to put this right permanently by doing the right thing.
Unfortunately, we have seen some instances where this has not been the case and the senior club’s
response has centred on protection of its reputation and standing rather than addressing the core
problem with a view to achieving a permanent solution which protected young players properly and
permanently.

3.76 Although, particularly with the advent of club football academies, these relationships have
eased off, the Review is not confident that this has been addressed sufficiently satisfactorily to dealeffectively with the issues. In most cases now there are no constitutional or legal connections
between youth football clubs and the local senior professional club with which it had previous
formal and informal ties and allegiance. However, if the youth football club persists in using the
same branding, badging, colours, and name as the senior club then it is disingenuous to claim that all
ties and connection are severed. Indeed, the Review has considered cases where the local youth
football club still has access to (and uses) the facilities of the senior club and its stadium without
charge. This does not denote a genuine separation.

3.77 Many individuals who had given the Review personal accounts of alleged sexual abuse at such
youth football clubs expressed intense dismay at senior club’s current assertions that former
connections were ended as this seems to them a thinly disguised attempt by the senior club to
distance itself from its past shared relationship and, with it, a shared accountability. The Review
entirely sympathises with this view.

3.78 The Review urges an openness and transparency about this issue on the part of the clubs
concerned so that acknowledgement and accountability are evident to all.

3.79 The Independent Review recognises that some senior clubs and community-based youth
football clubs may have taken steps to clarify their relationship over recent years.

3.80 Nevertheless, the Review concludes that this has not either gone far enough or been
completed. Issues of heritage, history and tradition are aspects of this and sometimes only act to
obstruct a move towards greater transparency and accountability across the clubs concerned.

3.81 The Review concludes that facing and resolving this serious residual issue properly and
completely will act to restore public confidence and especially that of the wider ‘family’ of the clubs
concerned for whom this is an active source of concern.

3.81 The Review believes that the leadership of the senior club should take the initiative in resolving
the residual issues arising from a close relationship between clubs where, in either, alleged sexual
abuse has been an issue. It is not enough to arrive at a constitutional and legal separation without
addressing the ‘mixed messages’ that perpetuate through continued shared name, brand, colours,
facilities and resources.

3.82 Where this continues the public perception, rightly in the view of the Review, is that the old ties
are as strong as ever and that these ties signify a deeper systemic problem which runs counter to the
protection of young people and the reduction of risk.

3.83 The Independent Review is unequivocal in its view that the protection of ‘reputation’ whether
of a club or of an individual should not and must not supersede the imperative to protect young
people from harm and to pursue a clear duty of care to individual young people and to young
people in general."

That's excellent TH, many thanks for posting it, I haven't read that before. Is that the initial findings from the SFA enquiry? If so it doesn't miss Seperate Entity FC.
Edit. Just read your post again and noticed your explanation at the start stating that it is from the Interim report. I'm surprised that it is as hard hitting tbh, I thought it would have been more seperate entity friendly.
 
Newlands is basically using a smokescreen of "systemic crimes" across Scottish football to protect the main perpetrators. So, he has knowledge or evidence of this sweeping claim, yet he is happy for the SFA to carry out an independent review, which incidentally cannot report due to pending cases.

Firstly, he should be naming clubs and/or individuals to support his claim of the widespread nature of these crimes. If he cannot/will not do this, then he simply must give assurances that the Police are fully aware of the specific details of this claim.

Secondly, it has been pointed out earlier in this thread that there have been other major enquiries that have taken place and reported before pending cases were called to court. Why permit delays in this instance? Due to the historic nature of these crimes, should he not be pushing with all of his energy to bring this to a full and early conclusion.

If the authorities continue to dilly dally, then not only will those who carried out and covered up these crimes be either six feet under or to fragile to be held to account, but more of the victims will be gone.
 
Newlands is basically using a smokescreen of "systemic crimes" across Scottish football to protect the main perpetrators. So, he has knowledge or evidence of this sweeping claim, yet he is happy for the SFA to carry out an independent review, which incidentally cannot report due to pending cases.

Firstly, he should be naming clubs and/or individuals to support his claim of the widespread nature of these crimes. If he cannot/will not do this, then he simply must give assurances that the Police are fully aware of the specific details of this claim.

Secondly, it has been pointed out earlier in this thread that there have been other major enquiries that have taken place and reported before pending cases were called to court. Why permit delays in this instance? Due to the historic nature of these crimes, should he not be pushing with all of his energy to bring this to a full and early conclusion.

If the authorities continue to dilly dally, then not only will those who carried out and covered up these crimes be either six feet under or to fragile to be held to account, but more of the victims will be gone.
Looks like that is the plan , dilly dally till no one’s left to give evidence and the Newlands guy coming out with systematic crimes across Scottish football is the filtering system where the main club ( CFC )gets to filter in beside those “ other “ Scottish football clubs who are guilty of similar crimes supposedly” :rolleyes: and the idea is to eventually , after all the blitz against the guilty club has died down a strict warning will be issued to all clubs about the safety of all children etc., at youth clubs and the like is paramount and if any further reports of this kind come to our attention we will come down sternly and punish any club who does not put child safety first in future You have all been warned blah ! blah! and CFC will agree with all that crap and quietly escape justice by being just one of the other clubs who will be warned to “ Watch it or else “ and they will hope that will be an end of it and them and the Japanese will be off the hook ...... I do hope this most certainly will NOT be the case but with some of those answers back to Tommy and Bluenose and all the lads doing a great job it looks like the only real justice will come from pressure outside Scotland .
 
and reply from GAVIN NEWLANDS just now.....

Dear Tommy,

The report I've referred to previously makes it quite clear that Scottish Football had a level of child abuse that is utterly unacceptable - and indeed any level of child abuse, in any football club or organisation, is utterly unacceptable. As I've stated before, this independent report was carried out by one of Scotland's foremost experts in child protection. I'm not sure who else would be better qualified to carry out such an assessment.

In terms of the motion at Westminster, Parliament is not in session just now so Early Day Motions cannot be signed. However, as I have said previously, it is concerning that the focus seems to be on one organisation to the apparent exclusion of the wider, systemic crimes that were committed for decades by individuals using their position at a number of Scottish football clubs and many, many other organisations.

Let me emphasise once again that all who perpetrated the disgusting abuse on children that has only recently come to light should be brought to justice and the full weight of the policing and judicial system brought to bear on them. And let me also emphasise once again that to focus on one football club and not acknowledge the other victims connected to other organisations and clubs is to ignore the reality of what is, without question, a shameful episode in our nation's recent history.

Yours,

Gavin Newlands MP
Paisley and Renfrewshire North



i wil post my response to this later

Well done once again Tommy for your consistent efforts in contacting these clowns. You're a legend mate and these guys keep sickening me even more.

That's abysmal and you can read between the lines as to where his allegiance will lie. Shame on him and the rest.
 
Interesting. Might be worth pursuing. If he did play for CBB and not what the scum claim is their academy; the damn will break. Hopefully the victims lawyers are alerted and are on the case.

Why did you say that he didn't play for the boys club? The post above a shirt while later suggests you didn't know.

Also. I don't know how Twitter works as I've avoided it like the plague, I rely on my son explaining to me if there are links I need to check.

My point is that in most of the screenshots of tweets they are only showing a few dozen likes and hardly any retweets. That is a worry surely? Can't imagine that gets any significant exposure.

@Haining84 can you advise me if I'm miles off the point of Twitter here? It would be interesting for you to note the number of likes or retweets that you post on here. My fear is that it is only is in our wee echo chamber that are reading these messages.

How do you increase the circulation of these tweets?
 
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