Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

Harrogate Bluenose

Well-Known Member
If they were such good Irish Catholics surely they should be demanding justice for the victims of such heinous crimes especially against young children even by Catholic priests as well as those trusted to run any Boy's or Girl's football teams . Let them show their disgust and anger at ANY reports of paedophilia and they might just find themselves being praised for demanding justice for victims of these horrible despicable crimes by animals who prey on the young .
I think this needs rephrased. Southern Ireland and the USA etc have called out the Catholic Church and any vile crimes that have occurred there regards paedophiles. Irish Catholics have stood up against their church as so has its government. what we are seeing today is under Scottish government, police, church and media that in 20 years time will catch up with the likes of Ireland. Today it Denys and deflects. Scotland’s shame is it’s governance.
 

Cahoochie

Well-Known Member
I think this needs rephrased. Southern Ireland and the USA etc have called out the Catholic Church and any vile crimes that have occurred there regards paedophiles. Irish Catholics have stood up against their church as so has its government. what we are seeing today is under Scottish government, police, church and media that in 20 years time will catch up with the likes of Ireland. Today it Denys and deflects. Scotland’s shame is it’s governance.
The tactic of moving the perpetrators, once discovered, on to another parish was/ is usual practice.
Why is this not treated as aiding and abetting a criminal or attempting to pervert the course of justice?
If society is serious about protecting children then charge a Bishop or two ( of whatever faith) next time it is apparent that they sanctioned a criminal’s change of Parish “ for pastoral reasons”.
 

Buxton Bear

Well-Known Member
The wider Scottish Child Abuse inquiry is running til May 2023. They have been travelling the world speaking to victims and perpetrators. All this is now being pulled together in Edinburgh.
 

macdonut

Well-Known Member


Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.

Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.

The lead up to the murder
  • Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
  • McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
  • Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
  • McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
The Investigation
  • Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
  • McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
  • The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
  • Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
  • Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
  • A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
  • The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
  • 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
  • On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
  • 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
  • The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
  • At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
  • The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
  • The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
  • The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
  • Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
  • Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
  • For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
  • However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
  • The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
  • The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
  • The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
  • The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
  • Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
  • Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
  • In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
  • Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
  • Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder


Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.

Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.

The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.

Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?

Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
Thanks for sharing all this. No question in my mind that there’s more to this case that’s come to light so far. However, was Beattie released from prison? It’s very difficult to tell from a Google search as there’s very very little on Beattie since he was jailed. On the assumption that he’s now released, I’d be curious to know why he’s apparently not been shouting his innocence from the rooftops.
 

brisbear

New Member


Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.

Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.

The lead up to the murder
  • Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
  • McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
  • Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
  • McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
The Investigation
  • Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
  • McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
  • The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
  • Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
  • Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
  • A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
  • The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
  • 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
  • On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
  • 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
  • The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
  • At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
  • The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
  • The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
  • The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
  • Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
  • Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
  • For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
  • However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
  • The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
  • The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
  • The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
  • The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
  • Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
  • Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
  • In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
  • Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
  • Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder


Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.

Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.

The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.

Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?

Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
Cardinal Winning’s sibling was a sister Margaret (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1393156.stm). So maybe Jim was a nephew? The cardinal was born in 1925, Jim was born ~1949.

A search of https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for James Winning born in the late 1940s finds:
WINNINGJAMESM1947638/ 158Dalserf and Larkhall
WINNINGJAMESM1948639/ 731Dalziel
WINNINGJAMES HIGGINSM1949573/1 663Paisley

In 1994, Thomas Winning became cardinal. Haggart was murdered in 1996.

More details of the Haggart murder and Jim Winning retiring in order to avoid punishment here: https://www.thecelticwiki.com/about...oversies/the-murder-of-lawrence-haggart-1996/.
 

ibroxcats

Well-Known Member
It's pretty clear that after over 2 years of you good people toiling to get publicity and action for these crimes the media and politicians and polis, for the most part, have little or no appetite to get involved. Would it be worthwhile to target some celebs' social media accounts with some of the info you've gathered and see what they have to say in response? They generally have lots of followers. Just an idea, if you've already tried it ignore.
 

Snakehips

Well-Known Member
Cardinal Winning’s sibling was a sister Margaret (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1393156.stm). So maybe Jim was a nephew? The cardinal was born in 1925, Jim was born ~1949.

A search of https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for James Winning born in the late 1940s finds:
WINNINGJAMESM1947638/ 158Dalserf and Larkhall
WINNINGJAMESM1948639/ 731Dalziel
WINNINGJAMES HIGGINSM1949573/1 663Paisley

In 1994, Thomas Winning became cardinal. Haggart was murdered in 1996.

More details of the Haggart murder and Jim Winning retiring in order to avoid punishment here: https://www.thecelticwiki.com/about...oversies/the-murder-of-lawrence-haggart-1996/.
Good work mate, the more eyes having a look the better.
 

Snakehips

Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing all this. No question in my mind that there’s more to this case that’s come to light so far. However, was Beattie released from prison? It’s very difficult to tell from a Google search as there’s very very little on Beattie since he was jailed. On the assumption that he’s now released, I’d be curious to know why he’s apparently not been shouting his innocence from the rooftops.
Credit to OP @dirty_sanshoes for pulling it together

As for Beattie, I am guessing no-one knows where he is or whether he is still alive. Likely he would have nothing new to add, and I am would imagine not many would be interested in his story. If his past is correct then maybe rightly so, I don’t know.

The one person who I would think would have a good grasp of things would be Russell Findlay, but is still unlikely the truth will ever come out. Unless McCafferty sings, that is.

Would certainly make an interesting Netflix unsolved true crime story.
 

GovanFront4

Well-Known Member
Cardinal Winning’s sibling was a sister Margaret (source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1393156.stm). So maybe Jim was a nephew? The cardinal was born in 1925, Jim was born ~1949.

A search of https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ for James Winning born in the late 1940s finds:
WINNINGJAMESM1947638/ 158Dalserf and Larkhall
WINNINGJAMESM1948639/ 731Dalziel
WINNINGJAMES HIGGINSM1949573/1 663Paisley

In 1994, Thomas Winning became cardinal. Haggart was murdered in 1996.

More details of the Haggart murder and Jim Winning retiring in order to avoid punishment here: https://www.thecelticwiki.com/about...oversies/the-murder-of-lawrence-haggart-1996/.
Casefile done a podcast on the Haggart murder, I had never heard of it! Seems a crazy coincidence.
 

alexg123

Well-Known Member
I think this needs rephrased. Southern Ireland and the USA etc have called out the Catholic Church and any vile crimes that have occurred there regards paedophiles. Irish Catholics have stood up against their church as so has its government. what we are seeing today is under Scottish government, police, church and media that in 20 years time will catch up with the likes of Ireland. Today it Denys and deflects. Scotland’s shame is it’s governance.
I get your point HB , although it was RCs here in Scotland that I had mainly in mind , mostly supporters of CFC who are not supporting the victims one bit and yes the Scottish Government are a disgrace for ignoring the pleas of those who have suffered in one way or another at the hands of these monsters but you are right to point out the stand the Irish community have taken to condemn the actions of some of their clergy among other offenders .
 

Harrogate Bluenose

Well-Known Member
I get your point HB , although it was RCs here in Scotland that I had mainly in mind , mostly supporters of CFC who are not supporting the victims one bit and yes the Scottish Government are a disgrace for ignoring the pleas of those who have suffered in one way or another at the hands of these monsters but you are right to point out the stand the Irish community have taken to condemn the actions of some of their clergy among other offenders .
Plastic Irish M8, ie your typical WoS variety. A breed like no other.
 

archimedes

Well-Known Member
I looked at this a while back and couldn't find a connection between Winning the copper and Winning the priest.

I'd have thought any child of his sister's would have the father's surname, but I could be wrong.


Cardinal Winning is survived by three close relatives, his younger sister Margaret McCarron, his niece Agnes Cameron and nephew Edward McCarron.
 
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BrianBear1

Active Member
Have they ever found out what "110" refers to?
Might be utter nonsense, but 110 in Angel numbers means the following. Pretty fanciful, but an odd coincidence
There's more to it, but this is the gist:

The number 110 is a powerful and spiritual number. It signifies motivation and achieving your goals and dreams. It also symbolizes relationships, teamwork, independence, companionship, diplomacy and exploration.

People who resonate with the number 110, desire to be in relationships where there is closeness and loyalty between the partners, with a dose of independence and freedom
 

Rfc111

Well-Known Member
Why doesnt any of the ex players call the separate entity lie out? Donnelly, Walker, Grant, Mcstay, Whyte, Nicholas
....
 

SATM33k

Well-Known Member


Lawrence Haggart, 15, was attacked in the living room of his home on the night of 16th March 1996. He was bludgeoned and subjected to inhuman torture (including having his feet set on fire) and died from his injuries on 17th March. There were no signs of forced entry at the property.

Lawrence came through Celtic Boys Club and was signed by Tommy Burns as a Celtic F.C. Youth player. He was expected to sign senior terms the following December.

The lead up to the murder
  • Lawrence was coached by McCafferty (convicted paedophile) at Celtic Boys Club.
  • McCafferty was a regular visitor to the Haggart home and occasionally took Lawrence to football matches.
  • Around the time of the murder, McCafferty was subject of an investigation into allegations of indecency and growing rumours about his abuse of Celtic Boys Club players.
  • McCafferty phoned Lawrence’s house on the day of the murder.
The Investigation
  • Brian Beattie – a known local paedophile – was interviewed by police the day after the attack but ruled out as a suspect.
  • McCafferty was named as a suspect but was not pursued.
  • The home of Lawrence Haggart was searched by police 9 times between 17 March and 22 March and no murder weapon was found. On 22 March a detective searching the home ‘discovered’ a hammer in the kitchen (we are to believe that detectives failed to spot this during the 9 previous crime scene searches). This discovery supported a narrative being pushed by investigating officers that Lawrence’s younger brother Dennis had bludgeoned him and set him on fire through jealousy.
  • Some investigating officers were intent on framing Lawrence’s younger brother.
  • Lawrence had the number ‘110’ written on the palms of his hands and carved into his shoulder (likely done with a key). This has never been explained.
  • A few weeks after the murder, McCafferty left Celtic.
  • The carpet and couch from the living room where the attack happened was disposed of soon after the murder, with the agreement of the police. They had not been subjected to any detailed forensic examination.
  • 6 months after Lawrence’s murder, his dad Larry was furious at the lack of progress by police and vowed to ‘act alone’ to find out what happened.
  • On the first anniversary of Lawrence’s death, Detective Superintendent Joe Holden, who had recently taken charge of the case, said: "It is perfectly possible Lawrence knew his attacker, since there was no forced entry."
  • 19 months after the murder, police identified Brian Beattie as prime suspect. He was on remand for another, unconnected, offence at the time.
  • The case against Beattie depended on police evidence of Beattie confessing to the murder, however no confession was ever recorded and Beattie never signed confessions that had been written up by officers.
  • At Beattie’s trial, defence lawyer Mr Edgar Prais QC said "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the defence calls the police liars."
  • The defence alleged that Beattie was beaten while in custody.
  • The defence said it was strange that when Beattie supposedly confessed, no tape recording was made.
  • The defence discussed forensic tests that were carried out in Scotland and by the FBI in Washington - in all tests, Beattie was eliminated from any connection with the murder scene.
  • Beattie was convicted of Lawrence’s murder in May 1998.
  • Following the conviction of Beattie, Assistant Chief Constable James Mackay was ordered to investigate the CID's conduct during the investigation.
  • For seven years, Mackay’s report was kept hidden – not even Lawrence Haggart’s family were allowed to see it. Lawrence's father Larry said: "We will not be told the outcome, which is shocking. "It's all cloak and dagger stuff. They don't want us to know what went on."
  • However, seven years after the report was hidden, FOI came into existence. Author Russell Findlay submitted a FOI request with the blessing of Lawrence’s dad Larry.
  • The report revealed that officers who has searched the house 9 times prior to 22 March were adamant there had been no hammer at the scene.
  • The report lists a catalogue of errors made by investigating officers, including: faking entries in an official diary of the murder inquiry; contaminating the crime scene; destroying evidence; losing a possible murder weapon.
  • The report concluded that the conduct of some officers was “allegedly criminal”.
  • The report criticised the inquiry head DS Jim Winning for not pursuing McCafferty as a suspect.
  • Not a single newspaper or broadcaster followed up the damning contents of the Mackay report.
  • Chief Insp Winning (in his late 40s), who led the initial investigation, was advised by both his GP and the force's own medical officer that he should retire immediately on health grounds. In doing so, Winning was exempt from prosecution for wrongdoing.
  • Two detective sergeants who worked on the original investigation were returned to unformed duties.
  • In January 1999, Beattie launched an appeal against his conviction. Beattie alleged the judge allowed certain evidence that was inadmissible. He also claims Lord Dawson misdirected the jury in his summing-up at the end of the four-week trial. Beattie's solicitor said the grounds for appeal included "information that was brought to our attention after the trial".
  • Beattie’s appeal was rejected. Following the appeal, the Lord Justice General, Lord Cullen, who heard the appeal with Lord Hamilton and Lady Cosgrove, said they had reservations over Lord Dawson's treatment of the police evidence during Beattie’s trial. However, no action was taken.
  • Over 20 years later, Beattie still claims he is innocent of Lawrence’s murder


Found this old post regarding the Haggart case. Credit to the OP for pulling together.

Seems to be limited info on Jim Winning online, other than his involvement in the case. No idea what line of work he entered next, or whether he is even still alive. Still quite a few Jim Winnings kicking about in Scotland though.

The number 110 is prominent in religion for 2 reasons. Firstly, it appears to be relevant to the word ‘angel’ in symbolism. Secondly, the first ever mention of Catholicism apparently occurred in the year 110AD, so one could reasonably argue the number has religious overtones.

Lastly, Cardinal Winning had a younger sibling. Could this be one and the same, or even a relation perhaps?

Regardless, everything about the case screams cover up.
The entire case doesn’t sit right with me and my heart bleeds for that family. The boys parents will have spent their entire life looking for answers they never got, breaks your heart.
 

47blue

Well-Known Member
All the noise about anti Catholic behaviour and the two worst institutional perpetrators get a free pass. It's simply disgusting and totally unacceptable.
Like much of the investigations all over the world, its the extraordinary people at Spotlight that reflect the true meaning of seeking justice.
The gains of the Enlightenment are disappearing fast as we get swamped by the remnants of heresy and the Inquisition.
 

Thedesolateone

Well-Known Member
All the noise about anti Catholic behaviour and the two worst institutional perpetrators get a free pass. It's simply disgusting and totally unacceptable.
Like much of the investigations all over the world, its the extraordinary people at Spotlight that reflect the true meaning of seeking justice.
The gains of the Enlightenment are disappearing fast as we get swamped by the remnants of heresy and the Inquisition.
Exactly, being anti catholic is no bad thing considering the atrocities they have committed over the centuries and to this day.
 
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Mexi

Well-Known Member
Nevin just chuckles and moves swiftly on, his old man knew the perps well.
Right now, Nevin's getting very upset about so-called "anti-catholic" bigotry aimed at a Scots player, and intends to get answers from Chelsea. it was Juan Guy caught on twitter. Funny that
 
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