Celtic face threat of multimillion pound compensation claim(The Times)

BlueBaloo

Well-Known Member
This whole sorry episode is totally self inflicted by CFC.

All the blame lies at their own front door for not dealing with this correctly and they had umpteen chances to do so but chose to cover up with lies ,deflect and even disgustingly deny any blame or liability by this seperate entity nonsense which has been proven by Spotlight to be a complete fallacy and downright disgusting attempt to escape any liability for their own boys club.

When P#1 was booted out the excuse of "pressure of work" was used in their own club magazine and im sure the snippett has been posted here a few times.

When P#2 was forced to resign in shame the exact same excuse of pressure of work was used to explain away his leaving.

As my wee granny used to say ....

You might not always catch a thief....but you always catch a liar!
 

EH47

Well-Known Member
Frank Cairney will now face trial in January.

Let's be blunt here. As despicable as this character undoubtedly is I don't believe he had the wits to dream up this continual stalling himself.
This is a device engineered by his defence and, I'd suggest, with the full complicity of the judicial system. Collectively they're taking the piss and it's designed purely to protect that vile entity in the East End.
This is no less than a full scale farce and an affront to everything that should be considered decent.
Scotlands judicial system is well and truly broken.
A bloody judge should be at his fucking door ordering the bastard to get himself to court, and issuing a court order to drag him there if he fails to fully co-operate.
Shame on Scotland.
FFS if you had a speeding charge and failed to turn up - repeatedly - the system wouldn't be long in nailing you.
 

Br55mloanWATP

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
In relation to the accused not attending court for this first diet, this is entirely normal and is in line with the current guidance. He is not getting any special treatment.
First Diets will continue to call on the dates currently assigned and in accordance witht he arrangements in each Sheriffdom. Accused persons who are represented and who are ordained or subject to bail should not attend a First Diet, unless a plea of guilty ist o be tendered.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/...rs---from-9-august-2021.pdf?sfvrsn=b65eb8b8_0
 

jexx

Well-Known Member
Let's be blunt here. As despicable as this character undoubtedly is I don't believe he had the wits to dream up this continual stalling himself.
This is a device engineered by his defence and, I'd suggest, with the full complicity of the judicial system. Collectively they're taking the piss and it's designed purely to protect that vile entity in the East End.
This is no less than a full scale farce and an affront to everything that should be considered decent.
Scotlands judicial system is well and truly broken.
A bloody judge should be at his fucking door ordering the bastard to get himself to court, and issuing a court order to drag him there if he fails to fully co-operate.
Shame on Scotland.
FFS if you had a speeding charge and failed to turn up - repeatedly - the system wouldn't be long in nailing you.
EH47, I share your anger.
This is a shameful situation being allowed to happen. The system is well and truly broken and favours the guilty.
Chin up everyone, their day will come, and those who have suffered at the hands of these deviants will get closure. They can't hide forever.
 

Thedesolateone

Well-Known Member
Not strictly relevant but tonight’s 24 Hours in Police Custody deals with a predator in Luton. If past programmes are anything to go by it will give people an idea of the horrors inflicted on youngsters by nonces.

If you are one of the lurkers please look in. It might open and change your minds
Just watched it mate, Bedfordshire police’s efforts to finally nail that bastard are in stark contrast to the tinpot police/judiciary here in the Kranky republic.
 

Mackania

Well-Known Member
I've written out about twenty replies so far and just deleted them. I'm angry at the state of my country, sad that human decency has been shelved for the 'greater good' but mainly fucking heartbroken for the victims so wasn't making much sense.

I can't and won't ever understand why any good human being would want to avoid this story, bury it and deny the victims justice. We were all kids one day, it's the only time in your life you should get to live totally care free and have endless fun.

I started out reading these threads because selfishly I wanted Celtic fans to suffer like I did with Rangers over the past ten years, I'll be honest about that. I wasn't aware of the full extent of what happened. Now I'm just sick for the victims and won't ever stop opening these links in the hope that there is finally some positive news for them. Keep fighting for justice and I really hope it comes soon.
 
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shug1971

Well-Known Member
The Scottish Govt have set up the "far reaching" 2015 Child Abuse inquiry but it's remit is so far reaching it specifically excludes sporting clubs and religious organisations.

Now in this country there are two massive institutions that instantly spring too mind whenever the horrible subject of Child Abuse rears its head, RC Church and Celtic FC. Both of these contain a large percentage of the SNP vote, hence their exclusion from the inquiry.

Corruption is the only word that springs to mind.
2 words. Corruption and apathy. The second one being the most frustrating
 

WDYGH

Well-Known Member
We’ve been here before and who knows it could probably happen again. So we fight on. I don’t know what other way to put this so here goes.
I know for a fact that survivors view these threads. Please will you Fck off with you’re negative posts and keep them to yourself. This is also happening on the other thread.
For those who choose to ignore me then believe me I know a whole lot more than what you do, so I’d advise you to keep it to yourself.
For the survivors looking in that know me.. Spotlight will continue to fight for justice. We are with you all the way. So we go again.
Great work mate. Keep up the sterling work. It will all be worth it in the end.
 

The Shadow

Well-Known Member
One issue I can see with this lawsuit is that if our suspicions are correct and Celtic did change companies in 1994 to Pacific Shelf, then the claim will be against the previous company, which no longer exists.
 

TerryMunro

Well-Known Member
One issue I can see with this lawsuit is that if our suspicions are correct and Celtic did change companies in 1994 to Pacific Shelf, then the claim will be against the previous company, which no longer exists.
It’s the football team’s standing and reputation that was protected forcing children to be sexually abused unnecessarily. It’s the club that requires legal action to rectify its wrongs.
 

Southernlion

Well-Known Member
Just watched it mate, Bedfordshire police’s efforts to finally nail that bastard are in stark contrast to the tinpot police/judiciary here in the Kranky republic.
24 Hours gave a glimpse of the effects and costs arising from CSA
Following that programme was Despatches. i fell asleep during, it but one item from it is that more than 200 Scottish police have been accused of sexual misdemeanours and not one has been punished. Boys looking after the boys?
 

SW Bear

Active Member
So presumably Celtic via their lawyers are going to try and convince the judge that athough employed by Celtic and four out the six carried out these despicable crimes, sometimes committed in premise owned by Celtic fc, they did them while working at Celtic boys club which should be considered as a seperate entity', for which they have no liability - it's the sort of mental gymnastics I would expect from them.
 
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RaskolnikovBear

Well-Known Member
Gerry McSherry has just accused Cairney of abusing 'Jinky' Johnstone.


That would explain the alcoholism and the wife-beatings.
Not sure that Twitter account is the most reliable source of information. If you read through his tweets there are a few which are strange to say the least. Is this the guy who gave the info to police Scotland originally and became a pariah to, “ the greatest fans in the world “
 

Ek_blue

Well-Known Member
Gerry McSherry has just accused Cairney of abusing 'Jinky' Johnstone.


That would explain the alcoholism and the wife-beatings.

Should that guy be naming and putting address up? Stinks of trying to jeopardise a trial that has been moved from yesterday to January.

Edit: just for the record, i'm not saying it didn't happen, just that theres better ways of going about it.
 

Vinted

Active Member
One issue I can see with this lawsuit is that if our suspicions are correct and Celtic did change companies in 1994 to Pacific Shelf, then the claim will be against the previous company, which no longer exists.
Why do you think Celtic boys club was shut down? And the recent statement forcified that CBC no longer existed. Tieing up all the loose ends that is called.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
Not sure that Twitter account is the most reliable source of information. If you read through his tweets there are a few which are strange to say the least. Is this the guy who gave the info to police Scotland originally and became a pariah to, “ the greatest fans in the world “

If it’s the real Gerry, he went to police to push the list of 14 paedophiles that Hugh Birt had initiated.

We have some doubts about the authenticity to be honest.
 

RaskolnikovBear

Well-Known Member
If it’s the real Gerry, he went to police to push the list of 14 paedophiles that Hugh Birt had initiated.

We have some doubts about the authenticity to be honest.
Yeah that’s what I thought Grigo, The judge will tell the jury to disregard the media but this seems a bit sinister. I have great faith in your team and am sure yous will get to the bottom of this. Having doubts of the authenticity seems like the best way to go. Just another dirty trick from the masters of it IMO.
 

Grigo Yossarian

Well-Known Member
Yeah that’s what I thought Grigo, The judge will tell the jury to disregard the media but this seems a bit sinister. I have great faith in your team and am sure yous will get to the bottom of this. Having doubts of the authenticity seems like the best way to go. Just another dirty trick from the masters of it IMO.

I think you’re right RB.

Some of his posts have been erratic to say the least.
 

The Clunge Taster

Well-Known Member
In fairness he did say he thought about it for a long time before agreeing to cover a horrific story but felt it had to be told.
I don't think he said that Pal sorry it looks like it was added on later by a reporter, court documents are the only place it would show us for definite
Mate, one night before a big walk I couldn't sleep so came downstairs and started browsing through shit, read De Niro and Pacino early life stories and went down a rabbit hole ending with reading the court transcripts of that case and I'm pretty certain I read that quote from him.
 
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RaskolnikovBear

Well-Known Member
I think you’re right RB.

Some of his posts have been erratic to say the least.
At this very moment they are discussing how Maradona is a sex pest On kerrydale street Grigo. What is wrong with these people. They are blinded to the horror at their club. A club like no other. Set up to stop the immigrants being fed by the COS. Soup taker is such a horrible insult.
 

Brant Hurley

Well-Known Member
Caveat; I'm not a lawyer, haven't seen any relevant insurance policies & don't know all the historic facts. However, there seems to be widespread, compelling evidence of multiple historic abuses by staff at the boys club over many years.

Public Liability (PL) Insurance will have been effected by the (then) Company (CFC) in it's own name and for associated entities. That did not necessarily include Celtic Boys Club (CBC). It will be a matter of proof (Policy, schedule & u/w papers) whether CBC is covered by any or all of CFC's many annual Policies.
The terms of business transfer from the prior to current CFC will be important. Liabilities may not carry forward even if assets did. See below.
CFC pays for the acts or omissions of CBC staff only if vicarious liability (VL) is established. That explains their 'separate entity' mantra. The law around VL is developing-a recent Blackpool FC decision won't help claimants, but other case-law may be more in point here.
If historic Policy covers included CBC, CFC's re-formation is of no consequence. The PL insurer at the date of each 'occurrence' will pay valid claims, assuming VL is proven.
In summary, I see 3 concerns for alleged victims:
1. Did CFC's GL cover include CBC? If there is no Policy cover for CBC, transfer of assets but no liabilities to the new company may leave a successful judgement unsatisfied.
2. At least one victim - don't know if he is in this class action - was allegedly abused in the USA, which may not be an insured territory on old Policies.
3. VL has developed quickly recently and newer judgements (Morrisons 2, Barclays & Blackpool FC) point to the 'scope of duty' receding.

While class actions are new in Scotland, Paddy McGuire is a very able litigators. Incidentally, as others say, there have been many opportunities missed to avoid litigation. Shame does not seem to be a concern....
 
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deedle

Well-Known Member
A quick Google search of this appears to suggest it was a comment made to a reporter in the evening times in 1998?

Google also showed this on an old thread here on FF:
Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland); 11/7/1998; McILWRAITH, GORDON
JOCK Stein and the Celtic board covered up allegations made against Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett,

Mr Birt said: "There was a lot of hearsay and it wasn't until Jim came back that I got involved because things started up again."

He told how he took the allegations against Torbett to the Celtic board and Stein and even told the then vice-chairman, Kevin Kelly, about them at a meeting in his car.
He said: "Although there were people who spoke to me I couldn't go to the police without actual proof of the allegations. When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times."

Billy McNeil said, on oath in a court of law, "It was an open secret at Parkhead"


Unsure if this is in any relation to what anyone needs. Will edit/remove if unnecessary.

The line beginning “Billy McNeill said…” has obviously been added to the original report in the Record.
 

jf1960

Well-Known Member
So presumably Celtic via their lawyers are going to try and convince the judge that athough employed by Celtic and four out the six carried out these despicable crimes, sometimes committed in premise owned by Celtic fc, they did them while working at Celtic boys club which should be considered as a seperate entity', for which they have no liability - it's the sort of mental gymnastics I would expect from them.
Thats about the jist of it pal ..... Unbelievable I know
 

RaskolnikovBear

Well-Known Member
What I can't really get my head round is the defence weren't prepared for trial, so the case was put back. Is this a legitimate line for any defence lawyer to get something put back, or is there any other reason it was delayed?
Yes that’s a legitimate reason in the courts eyes. They should only put up with it so much though. Eventually he should be told enough time. Unless it’s more sinister I suppose.
 

Bluebluecee

Well-Known Member
I hope the lawyers fighting for these poor guys are keeping a close eye on what is happening at Gordonstoun and Aberlour schools sex abuse scandal
 

Div1872

Well-Known Member
That “Gerry McSherry” tweet surely cannot be right re timelines ?

Was P1 not 18 when he set up CBC after agreement from CFC board so how could he abuse Jimmy Johnstone in 1950’s

I think that account is a lurker trying to muddy the waters
 

deedle

Well-Known Member
Court transcripts would be only factual place of it being recorded,how you could get access to that info is another matter.
The story changes from McNeill saying it at the trial to him saying it in the Sun or the Record or Evening Times.

I don’t think McNeill gave evidence at Torbett’s trial. If he had said it, there would have been much more press attention because he’d basically be throwing a few directors under the bus.

In contrast, not enough attention has been given to the Kellys who appear to have either lied under oath or had a serious case of amnesia.
 
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