Chris Jack - "Aston Villa on course to name Rangers boss Steven Gerrard as manager"

Shut this thread now man - someone will have the polis phoned on Gerrard by bedtime tonight.
 
davstr said:
The gushing statement by the board singing his praises suggests you might have something there
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I am thinking did Beale not say,wait and see what happens yesterday along with the boards praise of Gerrard makes me think GVB is already in the bag and the noise around Gerrards departure will all be forgot about if GVB & Mcann are in place tomorrow
 
bailliestontrueblues said:
I am thinking did Beale not say,wait and see what happens yesterday along with the boards praise of Gerrard makes me think GVB is already in the bag and the noise around Gerrards departure will all be forgot about if GVB & Mcann are in place tomorrow
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He did say that actually. Thought it was a bit strange at the time considering it was pretty obvious they were offskI.
 
Scaramanga said:
Haha! What an absolute cuck. But hardly surprising from someone who prior to 55 stated he’d be happy to keep Gerrard around even longer if he went a 3rd season without a trophy.

Have some self respect for fucks sake, attacking the board to protect your demi-god.
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I was wondering what happened to Dangerzone. I was also the one who said he'd be a right man for us and deliver 55. I really hope we get someone of the same calibre but I doubt it especially when we couldn't provide funds in the last transfer window then I doubt very much we'll have the funds for a big name appointment.
 
"A massive thank you to the Aston Villa fans for the warm welcome I have received.

I’m well aware of the stature of the football club and how special an atmosphere you all create at Villa Park - I’m looking forward to sampling that for the first time as your new Head Coach next weekend.

I can’t wait to get started. I’m looking forward to meeting all the staff and players and getting to work out on the training pitch."

What a guy
 
Kylegib said:
I was wondering what happened to Dangerzone. I was also the one who said he'd be a right man for us and deliver 55. I really hope we get someone of the same calibre but I doubt it especially when we couldn't provide funds in the last transfer window then I doubt very much we'll have the funds for a big name appointment.
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You and a whole load of others, I myself said he deserved a third season to get it right and yet was painted as some sort of hater. The point was you were already advocating he should be allowed another season if he went a third season without a trophy? He did good, but a manager of his calibre? I think it’s entirely plausible that we could get a manager who can do better than 1 trophy in 9 over a 3 year period.

But pinning the blame on the board? Away and do one, he’s been backed to the hilt, we’ve held on to players at his request, let players run down their contracts at his request, and missed out on CL money because of his own shortcomings against a shite team with 10 men. So pointing the finger of blame at the board to protect Gerrard is tragic. I suppose it shows where your allegiances lie though!
 
His time is over, so be it. Timing is poor, but he saw an opportunity at what he must believe is progression in his managerial life and took it.

We'll survive. He has brought a stability to the club and success that the managers immediately prior to him failed to deliver. We are in a strong position to push on from our current position. We have been stale this year yet despite the free flowing brand new style of football being played across the city, we have daylight between us and only 1 goal shy of them. Improvement is needed in some of our performances but it is not the complete overhaul job that Gerrard had infront of him facing our new manager.

The real highlight for me in the coming days will be watching the twisting of those who never rated him (mainly those outside our own support) who endlessly played down his achievements both in Europe and domestically which from the position he inherited will always remain remarkable. Those who were until today claiming they didn't want him to go, now claiming it is a disaster for us that he has. Lunatics.

All we can do now is get a new man in who will get us back to form to kick on from where we are right now while at the same time ramming it right into the moon howlers on twitter/clyde 1 etc.
 
bailliestontrueblues said:
Do you think it is possible that Gerrard told the board a couple of weeks ago that he was for the off to give the board time to sort out a replacement? The board fix up GVB and everybody is happy?
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I wouldn't be surprised (when he signed his extension a while back) if certain release clauses were put in there to allow this type of moment to be pushed through with the minimum of fuss (compensation, staff going too, etc).

The fact that it all basically happened within a 48/72 hour window leads me to believe that even more today.
 
He took us by the scruff of the clubs neck and shook life and professionalism into us. We won 55, beat the tims convincingly and did well in Europe. So for that I thank him, however the manner of his departure lacks the class he likes to wax lyrically about. His treatment of Emma Dodds makes him now look like a bit of a twat. I'm sad he's gone, but to be honest, I hope Villa go nowhere. Hated them anyway even before he went there. The next man in is the only important one now.
 
Scaramanga said:
You and a whole load of others, I myself said he deserved a third season to get it right and yet was painted as some sort of hater. The point was you were already advocating he should be allowed another season if he went a third season without a trophy? He did good, but a manager of his calibre? I think it’s entirely plausible that we could get a manager who can do better than 1 trophy in 9 over a 3 year period.

But pinning the blame on the board? Away and do one, he’s been backed to the hilt, we’ve held on to players at his request, let players run down their contracts at his request, and missed out on CL money because of his own shortcomings against a shite team with 10 men. So pointing the finger of blame at the board to protect Gerrard is tragic. I suppose it shows where your allegiances lie though!
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This 1 trophy in 9 bollocks again he won the trophy that mattered more than any other. Regarding the board situation I believe if you want to keep an ambitious manager then you have to provide them with funds we didn't or couldn't do that so we simply have to move on.
 
Kylegib said:
This 1 trophy in 9 bollocks again he won the trophy that mattered more than any other. Regarding the board situation I believe if you want to keep an ambitious manager then you have to provide them with funds we didn't or couldn't do that so we simply have to move on.
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He was more miss than hit domestically and went through periods of terrible results and performances. Leaves us in a better place than he found us but some have always had the blinkers on for his faults.
 
PeterM86 said:
The 2nd Mistake Hes Done In His Career Not Going To Chelsea & Now Leaving Us To Go To Villa He Wont Even Last Long There , Villa Will Be In The Bottom 3 By January, Cant Wait To Watch Chelsea Beat Villa On Boxing Day, Will Be Soon On BT Sport & Sky Sports, Get Gio In As Someone I Wanted Before Him & Neil McCann As Assistant Manager
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Say that again
 
Kylegib said:
This 1 trophy in 9 bollocks again he won the trophy that mattered more than any other. Regarding the board situation I believe if you want to keep an ambitious manager then you have to provide them with funds we didn't or couldn't do that so we simply have to move on.
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Bollock? It’s 100% fact. 6 tries at domestic cups, 6 failures, 5 of those not against Celtic. 55 was great, 2 mid season collapses weren’t, nor were 5 cup exits to SPL dross. He finally got us going the right way and now he’s bailed for a relegation battle at the worst possible moment.

Are you a Liverpool fan first and Rangers fan second by any chance? The board have backed him to the hilt. If he wanted funds then players had to be sold, and he shouldn’t have insisted we let players run down their contracts, and he should have negotiated his way through 2 ties against the mighty Malmö. Your insistence on glossing over the lost CL funds is most perplexing, and your choice to blame the board instead who’ve backed him well, outright disrespectful. Cuck
 
Scaramanga said:
Bollock? It’s 100% fact. 6 tries at domestic cups, 6 failures, 5 of those not against Celtic. 55 was great, 2 mid season collapses weren’t, nor were 5 cup exits to SPL dross. He finally got us going the right way and now he’s bailed for a relegation battle at the worst possible moment.

Are you a Liverpool fan first and Rangers fan second by any chance? The board have backed him to the hilt. If he wanted funds then players had to be sold, and he shouldn’t have insisted we let players run down their contracts, and he should have negotiated his way through 2 ties against the mighty Malmö. Your insistence on glossing over the lost CL funds is most perplexing, and your choice to blame the board instead who’ve backed him well, outright disrespectful. Cuck
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Did you only start supporting Rangers last year mate? Or do you suffer from memory loss?
 
Riquelme said:
No, but you missed our situation when he took over clearly.

Its not football manager. It doesn’t change overnight.
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So what you’re saying is that it was unrealistic to expect us to see off Aberdeen (twice), bottom of the league Hearts, St Mirren and St Johnstone in domestic cup competition?

Everyone knows he inherited a mess. And I think overall he was really good for us, remember that , I’m not saying his tenure has been a failure, he’s done the job. But let’s not pretend capitulating halfway through a league campaign isn’t a disappointment, and that cup exists to the aforementioned sides were any less disappointing.
 
55 and counting said:
He was more miss than hit domestically and went through periods of terrible results and performances. Leaves us in a better place than he found us but some have always had the blinkers on for his faults.
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That's a matter of opinion, undefeated season, stopped 10iar, undefeated against Celtic for about 2 years. I certainly think he done very well.
 
Riquelme said:
No, but you missed our situation when he took over clearly.

Its not football manager. It doesn’t change overnight.
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That’s why his first season was a free hit essentially. No other Rangers manager would’ve started a new season with everyone in acceptance that he would still in charge the following summer regardless of how that season went

Since that summer of 2018, his net spend is £28m. That’s unheard of since Advocaat days. So should he have delivered more in his 3 years. Yes, yes he should have.

Would other managers having given the time and money delivered more trophies? Impossible to say, but I think it’s very probable
 
Scaramanga said:
So what you’re saying is that it was unrealistic to expect us to see off Aberdeen (twice), bottom of the league Hearts, St Mirren and St Johnstone in domestic cup competition?

Everyone knows he inherited a mess. And I think overall he was really good for us, remember that , I’m not saying his tenure has been a failure, he’s done the job. But let’s not pretend capitulating halfway through a league campaign isn’t a disappointment, and that cup exists to the aforementioned sides were any less disappointing.
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Unrealistic? No. But when you’re rebuilding from scratch and facing a solid Aberdeen side that have been together for years its not easy.

2nd season was a freak season, I’d say its the best I’ve ever seen Gerrard teams on that run up to christmas. The capitulation is unexplainable. He also done everything to win that cup against celtic in the final, couldn’t have done more. Thats on the players & the offside goal.

Last season cups are inexcusable, but we had one of our best league campaigns in history.

1 in 9 is mentally challenged patter, or people who just do not understand football.
 
Scaramanga said:
Bollock? It’s 100% fact. 6 tries at domestic cups, 6 failures, 5 of those not against Celtic. 55 was great, 2 mid season collapses weren’t, nor were 5 cup exits to SPL dross. He finally got us going the right way and now he’s bailed for a relegation battle at the worst possible moment.

Are you a Liverpool fan first and Rangers fan second by any chance? The board have backed him to the hilt. If he wanted funds then players had to be sold, and he shouldn’t have insisted we let players run down their contracts, and he should have negotiated his way through 2 ties against the mighty Malmö. Your insistence on glossing over the lost CL funds is most perplexing, and your choice to blame the board instead who’ve backed him well, outright disrespectful. Cuck
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Cup exits were disappointing but as stated he won the trophy that mattered more than any other. The Malmo result was hugely disappointing but his European performances were exceptional. We had an undefeated season achieving all sorts of records, we're undefeated against Celtic for almost 2 years. He certainly could've done better but I'd say the job he did do was outstanding. Winning the league this season would guarantee £40m with entry straight into the CL therfore I think the board should've done more to give him funds in the recent transfer window.
 
Riquelme said:
Unrealistic? No. But when you’re rebuilding from scratch and facing a solid Aberdeen side that have been together for years its not easy.

2nd season was a freak season, I’d say its the best I’ve ever seen Gerrard teams on that run up to christmas. The capitulation is unexplainable. He also done everything to win that cup against celtic in the final, couldn’t have done more. Thats on the players & the offside goal.

Last season cups are inexcusable, but we had one of our best league campaigns in history.

1 in 9 is mentally challenged patter, or people who just do not understand football.
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1 in 9 is a fact, since when do poets deal in facts? I think implying that 1 final out of 6 in cup competitions isn’t particularly bad suggests it’s not me that doesn’t know about football, or about the standards at Rangers (but yes it’s me who only started supporting us a year ago). With what we spent and the squad we had we should done a lot better than one solitary final, a lot better.

And I’m sorry, but failing to get past McInnes’s Aberdeen twice was embarrassing, as is trying to excuse it. The 3 cup exits that followed were even more embarrassing. I can completely forgive Gerrard for the league campaign in his first season, he made very fast progress with the squad and performances and I didn’t expect them to win it. The second mid-season collapse was much harder to forgive and had the season not been brought to an abrupt end he may well have been offski. That’s how it was.

He delivered the main title that we wanted and that’s brilliant, no one can take that special season away from him. The rest, particularly the cup failures and the timing and nature of his exit, isn’t the stuff of legend.
 
Kylegib said:
Cup exits were disappointing but as stated he won the trophy that mattered more than any other. The Malmo result was hugely disappointing but his European performances were exceptional. We had an undefeated season achieving all sorts of records, we're undefeated against Celtic for almost 2 years. He certainly could've done better but I'd say the job he did do was outstanding. Winning the league this season would guarantee £40m with entry straight into the CL therfore I think the board should've done more to give him funds in the recent transfer window.
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Come on, are you a Gerrard fan or a Rangers fan mate? Tell us how the board could have gotten even more money to Gerrard………we’re all waiting……

Bear in mind of course that Gerrard wanted his biggest assets kept, and Goldson to be able to run down his contract. I just think you’re being really disrespectful to the board here, and I can’t forget that you were an advocate of giving Gerrard a 4th season even if he went without a trophy in the third. This all strongly implies you’re more concerned with Gerrard than the club.
 
academical said:
Historically, Aston Villa are one of the biggest clubs in English football. Founder members of the league - indeed instigators of it being formed - they have spent more seasons in the top flight than any club except Everton.

Only five clubs have won the league more times than Villa. Only four clubs have won the FA Cup more times than Villa. Only two clubs have won the League Cup more times than Villa. They are one of only five English clubs to have won Europe’s top prize.

Aston Villa have the 9th-highest all-time attendances in English football. They are unquestionably the biggest club in the midlands. Their stadium, Villa Park, has hosted international matches across three centuries, was one of the 1966 World Cup venues, and has hosted 55 FA Cup semi finals - more than any other ground.

In recent years, English football has becoming an international, money-driven circus, but this year Aston Villa were still ranked by Forbes as the tenth richest English club.

A top English player who has never managed any English club could do a lot worse than start with Aston Villa.
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You’ve got to give them credit for 1981, and 1982. Won both the only time they challenged. Otherwise okish top flight club with many seasons out with top flight over last 60 years, won a couple of League Cups. Biggest midland club because the others are bottom half of Premier League size. Most leagues and FA cups are ancient history.
Underachieved, would have huge potential but for the fact that owners money trumps potential supporters contributions.
 
PeterM86 said:
The 2nd Mistake Hes Done In His Career Not Going To Chelsea & Now Leaving Us To Go To Villa He Wont Even Last Long There , Villa Will Be In The Bottom 3 By January, Cant Wait To Watch Chelsea Beat Villa On Boxing Day, Will Be Soon On BT Sport & Sky Sports, Get Gio In As Someone I Wanted Before Him & Neil McCann As Assistant Manager
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Must’ve taken you ages to type that on mobile.
 
Scaramanga said:
Come on, are you a Gerrard fan or a Rangers fan mate? Tell us how the board could have gotten even more money to Gerrard………we’re all waiting……

Bear in mind of course that Gerrard wanted his biggest assets kept, and Goldson to be able to run down his contract. I just think you’re being really disrespectful to the board here, and I can’t forget that you were an advocate of giving Gerrard a 4th season even if he went without a trophy in the third. This all strongly implies you’re more concerned with Gerrard than the club.
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When you have a young ambitious manager that is a superstar in world football then you have to keep moving as a club we didn't or couldn't do that and that's on the board especially when there is £40m at stake for the league winners.
 
Scaramanga said:
Bollock? It’s 100% fact. 6 tries at domestic cups, 6 failures, 5 of those not against Celtic. 55 was great, 2 mid season collapses weren’t, nor were 5 cup exits to SPL dross. He finally got us going the right way and now he’s bailed for a relegation battle at the worst possible moment.

Are you a Liverpool fan first and Rangers fan second by any chance? The board have backed him to the hilt. If he wanted funds then players had to be sold, and he shouldn’t have insisted we let players run down their contracts, and he should have negotiated his way through 2 ties against the mighty Malmö. Your insistence on glossing over the lost CL funds is most perplexing, and your choice to blame the board instead who’ve backed him well, outright disrespectful. Cuck
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No disrespect mate, but this is just the nonsense that passes for a viewpoint in the fineyin controlled press.
Concentrate on the negatives and just ignore all the positives.

I don't know what motivates you to write this stuff.
Gerrard's three years at Rangers was a revolution.
A bigger revolution than the one that even Souness managed to engineer.
In fact, it was the greatest ever turnaround against the odds in Scottish football history between Rangers and The Filth.
Indeed given the circumstances of where we were when Gerrard took over to where he now leaves us, it is perhaps one of the greatest stories in football.

I am gutted that he has left us and I am annoyed at how it happened, but I will be damned if I will allow Timmy porn to pass as reasonable comment on a former Rangers manager.
 
bilkobear said:
No disrespect mate, but this is just the nonsense that passes for a viewpoint in the fineyin controlled press.
Concentrate on the negatives and just ignore all the positives.

I don't know what motivates you to write this stuff.
Gerrard's three years at Rangers was a revolution.
A bigger revolution than the one that even Souness managed to engineer.
In fact, it was the greatest ever turnaround against the odds in Scottish football history between Rangers and The Filth.
Indeed given the circumstances of where we were when Gerrard took over to where he now leaves us, it is perhaps one of the greatest stories in football.

I am gutted that he has left us and I am annoyed at how it happened, but I will be damned if I will allow Timmy porn to pass as reasonable comment on a former Rangers manager.
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Sorry but at what point did the truth and the facts become “Timmy porn”? I don’t really care what anyone else thinks about my own opinion, nor am I ignoring the positives in spite of what you say, on the whole, his tenure was a very good. But the way he’s ended it is shite, and that’s what’s motivates me to speak the truth.

But fact is the second mid season collapse was shite, and his domestic cup record was shite. You can call it Timmy porn as much as you want, it won’t change the fact that being papped out of cups by SPL dross was really disappointing and that’s what happened, you can’t just pretend it didn’t happen. And ultimately, with the money spent and the squad we had, it should have been more than one trophy, especially last year.

But people are welcome to forget it, forget the capitulation a couple of years ago in the league, forget making 1 cup final out of 6. I’m not going to forget 55 or the rapid progress made from where we were pre-Gerrard, or the great Euro nights he gave us, nor will I forget his shortcomings.
 
Scaramanga said:
Timmy porn? Is that was the cold hard facts are being referred to as now? I don’t really care what anyone else thinks, nor am I ignoring the positives in spite of what you say, on the whole, his tenure was a very good. But the way he’s ended it is shite, and that’s what’s motivates me to speak the truth.

But fact is the second mid season collapse was shite, and his domestic cup record was shite. You can call it Timmy porn as much as you want, it won’t change the fact that being papped out of cups by SPL dross was really disappointing, and ultimately with the money spent and the squad we had, it should have been more than one trophy, especially last year. But people are welcome to forget it, forget the capitulation a couple of years ago in the league. I’m not going to forget 55 or the rapid progress made from where we were pre-Gerrard, or the great Euro nights, nor will I forget his shortcomings.
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I get the impression that you just can't come to terms with his departure.
Your attack on him reminds me of a woman scorned.

The turnaround was never going to be simple.
It was always going to take years and even at that, it was never guaranteed.
For every penny he spent the Tims still outspent him.
He was basically building from the foundations up, all they had to do was a bit of decorating.
There is simply no comparison to the difference in where the two clubs were when Gerrard took over.

However, for every shitty Scottish tinpot cup he missed out on, the more important work to our profile and finances were being gained as we progressed in Europe and brought in the funds that would strengthen our player pool and achieve the profile beyond our shores that made these essential players keen to come.
This is the real work that you naively and immaturely ignore.
These were the real hard yards that mattered in ways that cups didn't.

As we were grinding out results against the likes of Porto, Villareal and Benfica, the clowns in the press were applauding a St Johnstone manager winning two cups, but these clowns have little awareness of where the real silver is found that makes a club great.
Oh, and in terms of our club, Steven Gerrard restored the glitter that makes us great indeed.

The cups will come and they will come because we have the players and the underpinning that will allow us to compete for them whilst still being relevant in Europe where people actually take notice of us far more than in any cup final.

The billionaires at Aston Villa know what Gerrard achieved they understand where to look and they don't pay attention to those who daily spend their time scribbling nonsense to undermine everything at Ibrox in order to salve their prejudice and hatred of our club.

I suggest that although you feel raw about his departure, you don't fall into media traps that our enemies set for unwary Rangers supporters.
 
Scaramanga said:
Sorry but at what point did the truth and the facts become “Timmy porn”? I don’t really care what anyone else thinks about my own opinion, nor am I ignoring the positives in spite of what you say, on the whole, his tenure was a very good. But the way he’s ended it is shite, and that’s what’s motivates me to speak the truth.

But fact is the second mid season collapse was shite, and his domestic cup record was shite. You can call it Timmy porn as much as you want, it won’t change the fact that being papped out of cups by SPL dross was really disappointing and that’s what happened, you can’t just pretend it didn’t happen. And ultimately, with the money spent and the squad we had, it should have been more than one trophy, especially last year.

But people are welcome to forget it, forget the capitulation a couple of years ago in the league, forget making 1 cup final out of 6. I’m not going to forget 55 or the rapid progress made from where we were pre-Gerrard, or the great Euro nights he gave us, nor will I forget his shortcomings.
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You're logic isn't making much sense, hypothetically if he won 3league cups and 3 Scottish cups but failed to win the league would that have made him more successful in your eyes. I can safely say every single fan I've met wanted that league title more than any other and for managing to deliver that against all the odds makes Gerrard an absolute legend in my eyes.
 
Riquelme said:
Unrealistic? No. But when you’re rebuilding from scratch and facing a solid Aberdeen side that have been together for years its not easy.

2nd season was a freak season, I’d say its the best I’ve ever seen Gerrard teams on that run up to christmas. The capitulation is unexplainable. He also done everything to win that cup against celtic in the final, couldn’t have done more. Thats on the players & the offside goal.

Last season cups are inexcusable, but we had one of our best league campaigns in history.

1 in 9 is mentally challenged patter, or people who just do not understand football.
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The 1 in 9 patter has been used by Celtic fans as a coping mechanism as they try to come to terms with failing to win ten in a row. This has been jumped on by those of a Celtic mind in the media, like Keevins and Sutton. It has been used as a way of talking down Gerrard's achievements as Rangers manager, while ignoring what he inherited, how well the club has done in Europe, and how significant last seasons title win was.
 
WalterLoyal said:
The 1 in 9 patter has been used by Celtic fans as a coping mechanism as they try to come to terms with failing to win ten in a row. This has been jumped on by those of a Celtic mind in the media, like Keevins and Sutton. It has been used as a way of talking down Gerrard's achievements as Rangers manager, while ignoring what he inherited, how well the club has done in Europe, and how significant last seasons title win was.
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Absolutely.

1 in 9 takes away from Gerrard’s starting point and where we were as a club.

The 1 turned out to be the only 1 they cared about and Rangers won it.
 
Br55mloanWATP said:
This club is built on winning silverware. I take no issue with the rest of your post but I expect Rangers to be winning the League and Scottish Cups, both trophies which have given us some of our finest days.
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I fully take your point.
However, I was demeaning them in order to emphasise where our real success to build the club back up came from.
It was in Europe, and this needs to said time and time again, because so many fail to understand that this is what really mattered to the build and the press continually ignores this important positive to always themselves emphasise the cups as a huge negative.

The cups are a great day out for the fans and yes I understand the tradition, but the club going into the future needs Europe as a building block to financial stability and growth because that is where the money and the profile are to be found.

Apart from the trophy count that we run against the Filth, and I get that as well, the fact is, if we reached deep into European competition every season and won the league but no cups, the club would prosper much more than failing in Europe and winning trebles.
But that is being a bit pragmatic and we are all fans, so yes, we must win cups as well.
 
Scaramanga said:
Sorry but at what point did the truth and the facts become “Timmy porn”? I don’t really care what anyone else thinks about my own opinion, nor am I ignoring the positives in spite of what you say, on the whole, his tenure was a very good. But the way he’s ended it is shite, and that’s what’s motivates me to speak the truth.

But fact is the second mid season collapse was shite, and his domestic cup record was shite. You can call it Timmy porn as much as you want, it won’t change the fact that being papped out of cups by SPL dross was really disappointing and that’s what happened, you can’t just pretend it didn’t happen. And ultimately, with the money spent and the squad we had, it should have been more than one trophy, especially last year.

But people are welcome to forget it, forget the capitulation a couple of years ago in the league, forget making 1 cup final out of 6. I’m not going to forget 55 or the rapid progress made from where we were pre-Gerrard, or the great Euro nights he gave us, nor will I forget his shortcomings.
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Cant it be both though? He has done an excellent job turning us around. He delivered 55 which was probably the most important title since our 9iar, for many reasons - but he also underperformed in the cups. He managed a team that went a league season without a loss, yet we managed to lose in 2 cups to St Mirren and St Johnstone. In my opinion he did an excellent job, but i think people are being disingenuous if they think he couldnt have done more.

I say this as someone who is on record saying i dont care what manner he left. Hes still a legend to me. I just think without the blinders, he wasnt infallible.

Meant to reply to @bilkobear
 
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