Club 1872 Director's Resignation

[strider]

I don't think it's worth going into the specifics from the OP or the likes, for reasons already mentioned.

I do think it's worth trying to gain an understanding of what people want Club1872 to represent, though. In many ways, the aims of the groups that merged were somewhat different.

Those who say we need something of a culture change for this to work are correct. It's uncharted territory for us, and mistakes are inevitable. I'm not suggesting we ignore them, but more that we learn as a support and move things forward rather than burning it down and starting again.

Here's one question I'd ask - is there anyone among the support, who is able to do the job Chris Graham does, that every fan would back?

 

[HoboUK]

Normally I would agree mate, however, in this instance ‘damaging’ rumours have been made public, rumours which have led to people cancelling payments etc, so it makes no sense not to counter the rumours if they are untrue. Damage has been done in the public eye and damage limitation needs to be put in place to prevent one side or another leading the charge.

And I agree , but it'll need to be done either as a statement or emails to members. Not on FF or social media comments or wherever else the OP posted it.

 

[mdingwall]

By their friends shall ye know them.

 

[bornabluenose]

By their friends shall ye know them.

What a slimeball he is .

 

[ibroxbound]

Ok then....

I suggest follow follow is a ridiculous place to air your dirty laundry and that the OP didn't make the thread on good faith.

Are you suggesting the default should be believing the OP because he's the only one who has made a case ? Did you genuinely believe this is a platform for airing these grievances and that the directors of C1872 should be rushing to a forum to address these claims ?

If there's anything to be answered for then they'll contact the membership , not engage in petty forum drama for the entertainment of the watching tims and idiots.

Well they have taken their time contacting the membership about the resignation.How long would they have kept this under the radar if the OP hadn't spoken?

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

And I agree , but it'll need to be done either as a statement or emails to members. Not on FF or social media comments or wherever else the OP posted it.

It will now, I agree. If the OP had gone up and within a short space had been countered, a lot of damage would have been prevented.

As it stands we are 2 days in with nothing at all from the rest of the board and it looks bad for them.



As an aside, and to go over old ground, no matter what they say about the personal goings on, Chris Graham’s position needs to be immediately and formally disclosed.

 

[Deleted member 3807]

And I agree , but it'll need to be done either as a statement or emails to members. Not on FF or social media comments or wherever else the OP posted it.

But there was no email, or a statement sent to inform members. Iain Mullholland's resignation was mentioned only in a general update to members. Perhaps he felt the only avenue left to make his side of events known was FF. Which is used mostly by bears. Only a small percentage are tims and idiots.

 

[Dooodooodrooo]

Club 1872 have been structurally and operationally poor for quite a while now.

I first contacted them via email to express where my expertise lay and how I could add value via a number of micro improvements that can make quite a rapid improvement to both perception and communication.

I received no reply.

Then, I sent another email highlighting all of the above once more - and providing the lack of response as one of the reasons why my suggestions mattered, with real world examples.

I received no reply.

Iain (the OP) and I then got to talking when I realsied he was a board member and again raised my suggestions - and I could tell by the way he was interacting with me that he cared. I could tell he really wanted to make a difference to Club 1872 and the perception, and the way it operated.

So I sent across a substantial set of action plan points with my personal contact details to Iain and he was quite clear in that he was assigned to certain projects outwith the scope of my expertise but would absolutely be passing everything across to someone dealing with those areas and we would hopefully get the ball rolling.

I have no doubt whatsoever Iain passed my information across - but yet again, nobody ever got in touch.

I own and operate two very substantially active businesses in consulting and digital services and was prepared to give a lot of time and effort to Club 1872 for free - for work I'd normally invoice a fortune for, and nobody could be arsed even replying.

That told me all I needed to know about Club 1872, I cancelled shortly thereafter.

I don't doubt anything Iain has said here, the management of Club 1872 has been borderline incompetent for years now and shows no sign of improvement, ever.

I've said it before, I badly, badly miss the militant BITE of the RST and wish this merger never happened. (Lifetime RST Member here!)

If that's true about Chris, that's a joke. If Laura really did say that to Stewart Robertson, she needs to resign as she's 10000% so badly out of touch with their members and the thought of her leading the charge for the people she apparently disagrees with is very concerning.

This here is totally unacceptable. I'm sorry that you've been ignored.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

Didn't this happen about a year ago?

I feel like Bill Murray.

Ghost buster?

 

[Deleted member 3807]

It will now, I agree. If the OP had gone up and within a short space had been countered, a lot of damage would have been prevented.

As it stands we are 2 days in with nothing at all from the rest of the board and it looks bad for them.



As an aside, and to go over old ground, no matter what they say about the personal goings on, Chris Graham’s position needs to be immediately and formally disclosed.

By leaving Club 1872 you've given up your power to ask them directly about Chris's position. You can still give an opinion in this forum. FF is a good way of putting over a point of view, and sometimes posts are taken notice of. However, it will always be a far weaker position to to capture Club 1872 attention than being a member.
Just making the point as I think it's worth members attention who are questioning Club 1872's effectiveness, and whether remaining a member is worthwhile.

 

[blue genes]

With due respect to Chris, his involvement would be seen as a distraction I think - his attempt at humour was ill judged & he paid a very heavy price for it but unfortunately as has been highlighted today, it will be brought up by the haters at every opportunity, something Club 1872 can do without it IMO.

Also, I didn't realise Club 1872 used Level 5 for comms - is this true? If it is, I can't see it going down well with some of the membership purely & simply because of the association with Jim Traynor. I recognise the Club 1872 Board may not have PR expertise in house, but accusations of being too cosy with the Club can be levelled here.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

By leaving Club 1872 you've given up your power to ask them directly about Chris's position. You can still give an opinion in this forum. FF is a good way of putting over a point of view, and sometimes posts are taken notice of. However, it will always be a far weaker position to to capture Club 1872 attention than being a member.
Just making the point as I think it's worth members attention who are questioning Club 1872's effectiveness, and whether remaining a member is worthwhile.

I will start this post by saying unequivocally that the volunteers, every single one of them, do a god job up to a point and that they all deserve credit for giving their time freely.


I disagree that by cancelling my membership I have given up a right to personally question them. My cancellation was not and stil is not permanent. I, and the several folk on here who have cancelled previously or as a result of this are 100% the most important people to C1872 today. They are trying to raise money to maintain their shareholding. They are trying to raise money through a scheme that does not see an individuals money result in personal shares. They are effectively asking for money for no tangible return other than an effective questioning of the board and a robust, solid organisation, equipped and able to address supporter issues. The reason I am the most important person (and everyone else who has cancelled) is that I clearly care enough to pay initially, I clearly can afford something towards the pot, I clearly think that the aims are correct and needed and I clearly could, under the right circumstances, come back into the fold.

If engaging a little more, answering outsiders questions, putting answers within reach of people who might pay in is at all possible, it has to be done, especially during a fund raising campaign. I understand that I am asking for more from unpaid volunteers, but they did not volunteer for an easy job and they do not have to stay if it becomes to onerous.

Something like Chris Graham being paid by the club 100% guarantees my money goes elsewhere and from the outside, it makes an absolute mockery of any claims of independence. Sorting that situation and being transparent doing it takes me a step closer to reinstating my membership.

If Inwas not in England I would possibly put my name forward for the board because that genuinely would be a chance to effect change.

 

[supersonic]

But there was no email, or a statement sent to inform members. Iain Mullholland's resignation was mentioned only in a general update to members. Perhaps he felt the only avenue left to make his side of events known was FF. Which is used mostly by bears. Only a small percentage are tims and idiots.

If he hadn't posted on FF, would anyone have noticed he had resigned? Probably not. It strikes as a lack of transparency not to put out a tweet or email. Buried in the report.

Nobody knee Chris Graham was working for club 1872 until this post either. No problem with him doing so, however the transparent route would be to tell us what tasks he is specifically taking on and why they have to be carried out by him and not a voluntary board member?

 

[isawthat]

Sadly, this would appear to be another case of ......The Ego Has Landed.

It happened several times when it was the Trust, and it's happened now with Club 1972.

 

[CupidStunt]

This here is totally unacceptable. I'm sorry that you've been ignored.

Me too buddy.

Funnily enough one of my recommendations was setting up a CRM Email Ticketing platform for them so items could be received in one central location, be marked as new/ongoing/onhold/resolved which would help make sure my experience would never have happened in the first place.

 

[Bluenose1979]

As stated above. Previously, myself and PS have been in communication with C1872 and they were prepared to survey the membership to gauge the supports appetite for the BROOMIE4BEARS initiative.

But I got the distinct impression time was of the essence in relation to the share issue and consolidating their block. The dilution to their percentage ownership has to be countered by additional share purchase.... as permitted by DK.

Club1872 owe it to the support to review this asap, it's a quick win for them, a quick shot in the arm for the support.

For them maximum grimace, minimum effort.

For the support .... a sense of engagement at long last. It's been decades since I've felt that.

Rest assured @Papasmurf and the team are not giving up on this yet.

Okay, so basically there's a few folk at the top of it who make the call on where it sits on C1872's priorities and they're not pushing it?

This is where it's hard to realistically define Club 1872. It sounds to me that it's not the voice of the membership that have a say on it, it's the select few (which is probably their remit) but it's not a model I would be happy to subscribe to.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

As stated above. Previously, myself and PS have been in communication with C1872 and they were prepared to survey the membership to gauge the supports appetite for the BROOMIE4BEARS initiative.

But I got the distinct impression time was of the essence in relation to the share issue and consolidating their block. The dilution to their percentage ownership has to be countered by additional share purchase.... as permitted by DK.

Club1872 owe it to the support to review this asap, it's a quick win for them, a quick shot in the arm for the support.

For them maximum grimace, minimum effort.

For the support .... a sense of engagement at long last. It's been decades since I've felt that.

Rest assured @Papasmurf and the team are not giving up on this yet.

At the Club1872 meeting that Smithers attended the Broomloan Allocation was brought up four times and he shat it four times , an ideal time for Club1872 to go in for the kill so to speak but nothing

 

[George Goudie]

At the Club1872 meeting that Smithers attended the Broomloan Allocation was brought up four times and he shat it four times , an ideal time for Club1872 to go in for the kill so to speak but nothing

I would agree with that. Yes. Poor show. Give them time.

 

[Dooodooodrooo]

Me too buddy.

Funnily enough one of my recommendations was setting up a CRM Email Ticketing platform for them so items could be received in one central location, be marked as new/ongoing/onhold/resolved which would help make sure my experience would never have happened in the first place.

Great idea. Though, the email would still have to be read and acknowledged. Clearly, they just ignore those who's face or name doesn't fit. Yourself and others should be encouraged and commended for giving up your time. Not blatantly ignored by those who should know better.

 

[pelem]

... honestly. I mean, I know nothing of the OP or anyone mentioned. Could be 100% true, could be utter manure made up by someone with a chip on their shoulder.

Truth is that all I do know is that I have even less interest in signing up to Club1872 than before I read it and I had little to zero interest before.

So you know nothing, same boat as me yet this guy who sees what is going on with the people who should be working to make things happen but don't, yet you were going to join, but now this guy has revealed some of the goings on you just feel safe in the knowledge you didn't join so fuuk it.

That's what I take from your post.

He's on here to explain to us that something is not right in the RANGERS organisation you formerly wanted to join.


He doesn't print like a former member of club1872 who is holding a grudge, he's telling us something ain't kosher.

 

[tazzabear]

We absolutely love in fighting

Its all about the egos it seems

I know nothing of the machinations of Club1872 but, are we not getting ahead of ourselves here by taking all of the op’s post as 100% accurate?

 

[Bluenose1979]

So you know nothing, same boat as me yet this guy who sees what is going on with the people who should be working to make things happen but don't, yet you were going to join, but now this guy has revealed some of the goings on you just feel safe in the knowledge you didn't join so fuuk it.

That's what I take from your post.

He's on here to explain to us that something is not right in the RANGERS organisation you formerly wanted to join.


He doesn't print like a former member of club1872 who is holding a grudge, he's telling us something ain't kosher.

No. You haven’t read my post properly. Try again.

I at no point said I was going to join.

 

[tazzabear]

Club 1872 is a joke of an organisation. We need a seperate fans group who aren’t afraid to speak their minds.

Oh yes, another fans group.
Then we’ll need a third group inthemide!

 

[Professor Yaffle]

With due respect to Chris, his involvement would be seen as a distraction I think - his attempt at humour was ill judged & he paid a very heavy price for it but unfortunately as has been highlighted today, it will be brought up by the haters at every opportunity, something Club 1872 can do without it IMO.

Also, I didn't realise Club 1872 used Level 5 for comms - is this true? If it is, I can't see it going down well with some of the membership purely & simply because of the association with Jim Traynor. I recognise the Club 1872 Board may not have PR expertise in house, but accusations of being too cosy with the Club can be levelled here.

There seems to be quite a bit that members are unaware of.

I back the goal of club 1872 but its not doing as well as i had hoped.

Obviously its aim is to acquire shares but we could do with a group that takes club and haters to task a bit more.

 

[pelem]

No. You haven’t read my post properly. Try again.

I at no point said I was going to join.

Bluenose1979, apology to you .

Need to start reading some posts properly.

 

[Derek84]

I'd far rather have lads from supporters busses, people who were on the pitch fighting the Hibs scum, the UB etc challenging the board than Club 1872. At least there's a bit of fight in them.

We seem to have almost a class war in our support. The normal fans, people who travel to every game home and away don't get their voices heard, yet fans who can afford it seem to get on these types of boards.

This all day long!! Well said mate.

 

[Bluenose1979]

Bluenose1979, apology to you .

Need to start reading some posts properly.

No worries

 

[SC81]

Contact the SLO he will forward you to the correct person.

Thanks for that suggestion....I emailed him this morning.

 

[Hateley's Mullet]

Ghost buster?

Groundhog Day

 

[Bluetou]

Surely it would be quite easy for Chris to confirm or deny the payment thing on this thread ? Does he still post on the forum ?

 

[ulster1]

Personal point scoring in a public forum would suggest he should not be on the board anyway .I am obviously sympathetic that he is not well but not sure what relevance it has in the wider debate.

 

[mdingwall]

Surely it would be quite easy for Chris to confirm or deny the payment thing on this thread ? Does he still post on the forum ?

Aye, that'll work. First post in response will be "He's a lying lady's front bottom"

 

[JohnK1972]

Firstly, it's bad form to go bad mouthing fellow directors (with or without justification) without revealing who you are.

Secondly, this is why I have absolutely no desire to pay membership fees to a fans group. We are incapable of agreeing on anything and it always seems to degenerate into playground squabbles.

Thirdly, I think the only way that the present RFC directors could possibly make an even bigger arse of their public relations would be for them to accept a fan/fans' group onto the board.

Do other clubs' fans have this sort of bother in achieving their stated aims or is it just us?

Incidentally, get well soon.

 

[mdingwall]

Firstly, it's bad form to go bad mouthing fellow directors (with or without justification) without revealing who you are.

Secondly, this is why I have absolutely no desire to pay membership fees to a fans group. We are incapable of agreeing on anything and it always seems to degenerate into playground squabbles.

Thirdly, I think the only way that the present RFC directors could possibly make an even bigger arse of their public relations would be for them to accept a fan/fans' group onto the board.

Do other clubs' fans have this sort of bother in achieving their stated aims or is it just us?

Incidentally, get well soon.

Yes, Hartlepool and Villa but two examples.

 

[iaatpies]

Firstly, it's bad form to go bad mouthing fellow directors (with or without justification) without revealing who you are.

Secondly, this is why I have absolutely no desire to pay membership fees to a fans group. We are incapable of agreeing on anything and it always seems to degenerate into playground squabbles.

Thirdly, I think the only way that the present RFC directors could possibly make an even bigger arse of their public relations would be for them to accept a fan/fans' group onto the board.

Do other clubs' fans have this sort of bother in achieving their stated aims or is it just us?

Incidentally, get well soon.

Why?

It's common for clubs to have fan representation at board level. There are certainly clubs in Scotland where the supporters trust has a board position.

Fans don't suddenly abandon their professional knowledge, expertise and experience when they pull on a football scarf and support their team. The support is potentially a significant talent pool that clubs are foolish to ignore.

There's a balance to be struck - tokenism should never be accepted and there's always a danger that the pursuit of a blazer becomes more important than fan representation. If the balance is right then having fan representation at board room level can strengthen a club board. It should never be dismissed out of hand.

 

[Barbarossa]

It appears from the outside that Club 1872 have suspended their critical faculties in order to push for a seat on the board.

Which is in itself pointless unless it's a full, proper, meaningful seat on board as before a major shareholder.

It’s always the same with Rangers fan groups.

The sniff of a club tie and it’s all backstabbing and infighting. Look how the mhanks organise themselves.

 

[WOS72]

If the OP is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I am disgusted.

Firstly, Club 1872 have been without question towing the club line for a while. The statement a couple of weeks ago was a disgrace. The usual round of statements is that we should all give more money to C1872 so we can gain more power and gain a board space. Apparently in the upcoming share issue we should put our hands in our pockets...so we can stand still.

We are the second largest shareholders in the club, not including individual fan shareholders.

Of course we already had a fan rep on the Board, Chris Graham. This didn’t work out, for one reason or the order. But the club keep him on the payroll and this isn’t disclosed? What is this?

That ignores the Club Secretary being a Club 1872 Director too.

These things are highly questionable for a supposedly independent fan group. Because that is what we are. We don’t have a Board vote. But we are being patted on the head saying someday they’ll give a Board place to us if give more money and we extend directors terms.

Why? Because apparently Rangers are worried about periodic new directors in a fan group causing instability in the Board Room. This is utter bull and poor corporate governance. Board rotation is recommended by all good corporate governance people. I don’t even see evidence of many independent non executive directors on the Rangers board.

Are they worried about a Chris Graham type situation again where rightly or wrongly there was a spotlight on the Board? They don’t seem to have a problem with paying him according to the OP so I am curious to what their actual issue is with these associations.

It’s time Bears woke up to this. These people, including all the Directors, I am sure are good people. They put their hands in their pockets and time in. But the structure and governance from the Board room to Club 1872 stinks and is going to cause problems in the medium term.

We should not be a continual drip for the Board. Club 1872 need to be honest- the current Board don’t want us on the Board for whatever reason. Be honest and start calling the Board to account, like fans did a decade ago.

 

[Chester Perry]

Chris Graham needs to answer questions
C1872 needs to answer questions

They won’t

 

[BluebellsPuertoDelCarmen]

Won't stop me being a member but there are issues in levels of communication between the board and the support.

Don't think that's hard to fathom ,even before reading this post.

Yeah I know. I’ve always been a supporter of c1872. And before that, the RST. So I know mate. Was just saying that the OP will ultimately hurt c1872, be it 100% true or 100% false.

I think the issue is people want C1872 to be many things - a major shareholder in the club, enough to ensure nothing like Whyte happens again; A supporters organisation liasing with the club; A lobby group to hold the club to account and agitate when things need said. Almost like Rangers First, the RSA and the RST used to be....

Sadly, I don’t think it’s possible to do all those as people would want. Start to agitate or have a go at the board and you lose the goodwill you need to effectively do the second objective. Conversely, you will be less likely to lobby strongly when in the next telephone call you want the board to do something for you..

i was actually thinking this today about RST and RSA etc. Far from perfect but at least they had their own ‘roles’ and constituents as it were.

It seems to me that C1872 only wants a) more members so more share power b) a seat in the board. Anything which is seen as outside of these direct goals seems unimportant. That’s how it looks.

 

[The Railway Bears]

This here is totally unacceptable. I'm sorry that you've been ignored.

Mate, that rant you refer to as "totally unacceptable" merits that description, though probably not how you intended. "Club1872 board has been borderline incompetent for years now"... It formed 2 years ago this month. Can`t beat a bit of hyperbole eh?

Overlooking the OP intent, validity or motive, something quite saddening and unfortunately typical is apparent throughout this thread; a worthy line of bears that appear fantastic at stating how fans groups should work and who should run them, but don`t step up and fill the void.

Club1872 owns nearly 11% of the club and has many thousands of members. To genuinely think that a couple of directors on a 1 year term are genuine reason to chuck subscription doesn`t hold water. Every poster who cancelled or is cancelling, prior to doing so, did you genuinely consider lobbying for change first or just shouting into a void via FF, etc? How many attended and spoke with the Club1872 office in the stadium, or attended one of the meetings, or god forbid thought of standing for a director post?

To chuck it so quickly (2 years in) isn`t really maintaining focus on it`s main stated purposes; 25% shareholding to prevent another fraud asset stripping event and projects for the benefit of the supporters and club.

Agitate from within with your membership power, not snipe from the side and destabilise any chance of success by others.

 

[StephenHawkinsfitbawboots]

Aye, that'll work. First post in response will be "He's a lying lady's front bottom"

So he shouldn’t have to answer the question then?

 

[Mufasa]

It’s always the same with Rangers fan groups.

The sniff of a club tie and it’s all backstabbing and infighting. Look how the mhanks organise themselves.

What a load of shite.

 

[hawkfalcons]

I want Club1872 to own 25% or above of the available shares.

That's all I care about and the only reason I contribute each month.

I don't care how they do it, I don't care what personalities come and go, there is nothing more important for the Rangers support after the cataclysmic lessons since 2011.

That's it. Every other peripheral matter (like this) is meaningless and in 50 years from now will remain meaningless.

But owning 25% or more of RIFC will be priceless.

whats the point if all their doing is sitting on their hands doing nothing

 

[Mufasa]

whats the point if all their doing is sitting on their hands doing nothing

Even IF they are doing nothing (which isnt true). Are the current elected representatives there for life?

 

[EKblue]

What a shambles don’t even know where to start with this from the outside it does seem that people are putting themselves before their elected responsibilities.

The lack of pressure on the board from 1872 in the last few months has surprised me I have to admit.

 

[hawkfalcons]

Even IF they are doing nothing (which isnt true). Are the current elected representatives there for life?

they shouldn't be regardless of what their doing

 

[BSPECIAL]

It's a sad state of affairs when good ideas turn into something shambolic.It seems the norm in everything we do from the board to well meaning fan groups.Why?

 

[BluebellsPuertoDelCarmen]

Must admit I am surprised at the RFC paying Chris Graham thing. Not a slight in CG as remember the same club flung him under the bus! But it’s a strange one that.

It’s always the same with Rangers fan groups.

The sniff of a club tie and it’s all backstabbing and infighting. Look how the mhanks organise themselves.

This tie/blazer stuff must surely put good people off stepping forward? I must admit I’ve seen it once or twice but in my limited experience generally the people involved from the outside (in fans groups) aren’t out for any personal gain. Maybe things have changed, I dunno.

 

[Dooodooodrooo]

Mate, that rant you refer to as "totally unacceptable" merits that description, though probably not how you intended. "Club1872 board has been borderline incompetent for years now"... It formed 2 years ago this month. Can`t beat a bit of hyperbole eh?

Overlooking the OP intent, validity or motive, something quite saddening and unfortunately typical is apparent throughout this thread; a worthy line of bears that appear fantastic at stating how fans groups should work and who should run them, but don`t step up and fill the void.

Club1872 owns nearly 11% of the club and has many thousands of members. To genuinely think that a couple of directors on a 1 year term are genuine reason to chuck subscription doesn`t hold water. Every poster who cancelled or is cancelling, prior to doing so, did you genuinely consider lobbying for change first or just shouting into a void via FF, etc? How many attended and spoke with the Club1872 office in the stadium, or attended one of the meetings, or god forbid thought of standing for a director post?

To chuck it so quickly (2 years in) isn`t really maintaining focus on it`s main stated purposes; 25% shareholding to prevent another fraud asset stripping event and projects for the benefit of the supporters and club.

Agitate from within with your membership power, not snipe from the side and destabilise any chance of success by others.

Did you actually read what I was referring to? If you did,then you need to ask yourself what kind of organisation you support. Despite having shares, are you happy with how they are representing the members and the support as a whole? If so, take your head out of the sand.
If you look at this thread, I'm hardly the only one with this opinion.

 

[de_whoa]

Mate, that rant you refer to as "totally unacceptable" merits that description, though probably not how you intended. "Club1872 board has been borderline incompetent for years now"... It formed 2 years ago this month. Can`t beat a bit of hyperbole eh?

Overlooking the OP intent, validity or motive, something quite saddening and unfortunately typical is apparent throughout this thread; a worthy line of bears that appear fantastic at stating how fans groups should work and who should run them, but don`t step up and fill the void.

Club1872 owns nearly 11% of the club and has many thousands of members. To genuinely think that a couple of directors on a 1 year term are genuine reason to chuck subscription doesn`t hold water. Every poster who cancelled or is cancelling, prior to doing so, did you genuinely consider lobbying for change first or just shouting into a void via FF, etc? How many attended and spoke with the Club1872 office in the stadium, or attended one of the meetings, or god forbid thought of standing for a director post?

To chuck it so quickly (2 years in) isn`t really maintaining focus on it`s main stated purposes; 25% shareholding to prevent another fraud asset stripping event and projects for the benefit of the supporters and club.

Agitate from within with your membership power, not snipe from the side and destabilise any chance of success by others.

This is actually very fair.

I do wonder if anyone has studied other supporter groups to learn and understand how they have gone about achieving their aim. Dare I say Hearts could be a good model to look at.

Again though, the consistent message in this thread is that FF is not the place for c1872 debate.