Duff and Duffer trial

@mdingwall Have to say I’m a little bit concerned as to where the latest story about the sheriff and court clerks being biased might be heading.
Clearly an attempt to deflect responsibility away from the real culprits at HMRC and end the fiscal’s office who were our enemies and handled this in a shocking manner designed to kill the club.
The decisions of relatively low officials such as sheriffs and court clerks should not have had any real bearing on the outcomes.
But it looks like possibly the senior law officials want others to be targeted rather than them.
 
Coisty09 said:
@mdingwall Have to say I’m a little bit concerned as to where the latest story about the sheriff and court clerks being biased might be heading.
Clearly an attempt to deflect responsibility away from the real culprits at HMRC and end the fiscal’s office who were our enemies and handled this in a shocking manner designed to kill the club.
The decisions of relatively low officials such as sheriffs and court clerks should not have had any real bearing on the outcomes.
But it looks like possibly the senior law officials want others to be targeted rather than them.
Click to expand...
Looks like they've picked their cover story and patsies.
 
Coisty09 said:
@mdingwall Have to say I’m a little bit concerned as to where the latest story about the sheriff and court clerks being biased might be heading.
Clearly an attempt to deflect responsibility away from the real culprits at HMRC and end the fiscal’s office who were our enemies and handled this in a shocking manner designed to kill the club.
The decisions of relatively low officials such as sheriffs and court clerks should not have had any real bearing on the outcomes.
But it looks like possibly the senior law officials want others to be targeted rather than them.
Click to expand...
Some people will take the Derry for this but you are bang on it won’t fall on the ones who really caused it. Too powerful and untouchable
 
buster60 said:
What I don’t understand is the reason that they gave for charging these people. That reason I presume has to have been malicious but what exactly were they supposed to be guilty of?
Similar case almost to the Salmon one in some respect. Having the senior official of a so called independent prosecution system sitting in the Scottish cabinet with party politicians seems totally suspect.
Don't think we have heard the last of this by any means but the SNP will be doing everything they can to bury this.
Click to expand...
the same as what’s getting buried at giorodome
 
mdingwall said:
Click to expand...

Really wonder what the motives were of these senior officers.

Were they Bears determined to make someone/anyone pay for what happened?

Were they tims trying to stir up more trouble and prove Rangers really are deid

Or were they really acting with integrity with evidence of skullduggery but never had the skills to convince a judge.
 
daven37 said:
Really wonder what the motives were of these senior officers.

Were they Bears determined to make someone/anyone pay for what happened?

Were they tims trying to stir up more trouble and prove Rangers really are deid

Or were they really acting with integrity with evidence of skullduggery but never had the skills to convince a judge.
Click to expand...
Like many in the police force, they would have been bullies who chose to ignore due process and the treatment given to this individual would have been repressive.
The problems that cops have is they treat everybody with the same disdain and rarely, if ever, their abusive behaviour, comes back to bite them in the ass.
However, when dealing with white-collar criminals, many have the resources to tackle and hold to account bullying and oppressive policing.
Whatever the motive may have been by the detectives, they would’ve acted in a similar manner in this case as they will have done to thousands of others who had been arrested and prosecuted for alleged offences.
Plus ca change
 
daven37 said:
Really wonder what the motives were of these senior officers.

Were they Bears determined to make someone/anyone pay for what happened?

Were they tims trying to stir up more trouble and prove Rangers really are deid

Or were they really acting with integrity with evidence of skullduggery but never had the skills to convince a judge.
Click to expand...
Excuse the stereotyping based on a name but I'm not convinced Jaqueline O'Neill would be on our side.
 
archimedes said:
If there's one good thing to come out of thus whole sorry episode, it's that the Nats have been shown up (once again) for the complete shambles that they are.
Click to expand...

Yes, agreed. It's small comfort all the same.

Just think, the actual tax bill was around £40m before the fabricated fines and legal costs were added. Our squad was worth that. In any sane situation, players would have been sold to cover that and the entire 2012 episode would / could have been avoided.

There'd be no pain of the lower divisions for us, Scottish football wouldn't have suffered from the loss of income our expulsion from the top league cost, millions in lost revenue to the economy wouldn't have occured and now, with these payouts lost to the public fund, there'd be cash to attend to things like kids in Scotland not getting fed every day.

Still, as long as a high ranking MP or two and some slavering bigots saw their plan through (nearly) I guess none of that is a concern.
 
The only names that come up when accountability for the malicious prosecutions is hinted at are Jim Robertson and his sidekick Jacqueline O'Neil. David Grier believes their actions amount to criminal conduct. Are these two to be the fall guys in the public inquiry?
We all know it goes much higher than the two leading the police investigation. And laughably it is revealed both have been promoted since the fiasco. Well who would promote people like that? It's clear they are being looked after.
It is obvious to me that Scotland's civic society is riven with anti Rangers prejudice, and led by tribal morons who feel taking "revenge" over imagined past injustices is completely justifiable.
 
The biggest scandal here is the lawyers/tax specialists who made the decisions are not paying for it themselves.
This was always a gravy train for the legal profession.
Complex financial cases are their bread and butter. And this time they managed to make the taxpayer pick up the hefty tabs.
Whoever made the decision that there was a criminal case to pursue against the administrators, should be facing a jail term.
The best they could claim would be that they were incompetent by making that decision and therefore reckless with taxpayers cash.
But they have also admitted that the prosecution was malicious.
Therefore, that is a breach of their professional obligations and they could be prosecuted for their actions.
The bungling cops also walked away into the sunset with their huge pensions.
Lips tightly sealed.
I am reliably informed from a man on the inside that the decision to accept that the prosecutions were malicious was made because the Crown lawyers did not want to have to defend a civil action against them out of their own pockets.
 
Laudrup1 said:
Yes, agreed. It's small comfort all the same.

Just think, the actual tax bill was around £40m before the fabricated fines and legal costs were added. Our squad was worth that. In any sane situation, players would have been sold to cover that and the entire 2012 episode would / could have been avoided.

There'd be no pain of the lower divisions for us, Scottish football wouldn't have suffered from the loss of income our expulsion from the top league cost, millions in lost revenue to the economy wouldn't have occured and now, with these payouts lost to the public fund, there'd be cash to attend to things like kids in Scotland not getting fed every day.

Still, as long as a high ranking MP or two and some slavering bigots saw their plan through (nearly) I guess none of that is a concern.
Click to expand...
Tax and NI at prevailing rates at the time would be little more than £20m.

HMRC calculated our tax due on a "grossing up" basis, essentially near doubling the tax they say we were due and added some £25m of penalties and fines on top bringing total bill to £73m.

Of this BDO have successfully challenged the penalties and fines and had around £25m removed.

BDO further disagree with the "grossing up" method applied, have contested it with a view to halving it reduced by around a half, and even some 10 years later it has not been settled.

Absolute stitch up from the start, HMRC likely could have collected most, or possibly all the tax and NI had they adopted a different stance, they chose the most aggressive approach imaginable and got almost nothing, yet nobody seems to care, or question their approach.

I can only wonder why!
 
Centralbear said:
Tax and NI at prevailing rates at the time would be little more than £20m.

HMRC calculated our tax due on a "grossing up" basis, essentially near doubling the tax they say we were due and added some £25m of penalties and fines on top bringing total bill to £73m.

Of this BDO have successfully challenged the penalties and fines and had around £25m removed.

BDO further disagree with the "grossing up" method applied, have contested it with a view to halving it reduced by around a half, and even some 10 years later it has not been settled.

Absolute stitch up from the start, HMRC likely could have collected most, or possibly all the tax and NI had they adopted a different stance, they chose the most aggressive approach imaginable and got almost nothing, yet nobody seems to care, or question their approach.

I can only wonder why!
Click to expand...
Whoever made that decision should be accountable for it, it seems it’s just been swept under the carpet.
 
104Bear said:
Whoever made that decision should be accountable for it, it seems it’s just been swept under the carpet.
Click to expand...
This is the part that needs to be found out.. why did the hrmc not act in the best interests of the nation? This was the killer for us...

Unfortunately, there are people like white and green (mike Ashley another) who legally sweep up companies in trouble, asset strip them, sell off parts and make them profitable to make money, or to sell on. Look at HMV for example.

If the club had been sold to rangers people at that point, we could have saved up a 50 million over 3 seasons getting back to the top, but we were busy paying off investors with lump sums until the next sale.. people may not like Dave King, but he broke the chain and got it back in the hands of a rangers people.
 
Centralbear said:
Tax and NI at prevailing rates at the time would be little more than £20m.

HMRC calculated our tax due on a "grossing up" basis, essentially near doubling the tax they say we were due and added some £25m of penalties and fines on top bringing total bill to £73m.

Of this BDO have successfully challenged the penalties and fines and had around £25m removed.

BDO further disagree with the "grossing up" method applied, have contested it with a view to halving it reduced by around a half, and even some 10 years later it has not been settled.

Absolute stitch up from the start, HMRC likely could have collected most, or possibly all the tax and NI had they adopted a different stance, they chose the most aggressive approach imaginable and got almost nothing, yet nobody seems to care, or question their approach.

I can only wonder why!
Click to expand...
HMRC

Hunted Maliciously by Reid Cronies.
 
TerryMunro said:
These useless bastards can't last forever, surely one day we will get a judicial review on how a government targeted a football team and it cost tax payers over £100m.
Click to expand...
Would have to be a judge from another nation in the UK to investigate the crown office in Scotland.
 
Theportyunionjack said:
Was £40 mil not the amount that was paid out rather than the tax on it which would have been significantly less?
Click to expand...

Possibly. I couldn't even mind the actual number but it was more in reference to the inflated £120m headlines which came from the lower figure and grew by the day.
 
Coisty09 said:
Like many in the police force, they would have been bullies who chose to ignore due process and the treatment given to this individual would have been repressive.
The problems that cops have is they treat everybody with the same disdain and rarely, if ever, their abusive behaviour, comes back to bite them in the ass.
However, when dealing with white-collar criminals, many have the resources to tackle and hold to account bullying and oppressive policing.
Whatever the motive may have been by the detectives, they would’ve acted in a similar manner in this case as they will have done to thousands of others who had been arrested and prosecuted for alleged offences.
Plus ca change
Click to expand...
You might have this the wrong way around.
These types of enquiries are evidence driven and require meticulous oversight by lawyers with experience of financial irregularities.
Cops normally proceed on advice from the CPS, or in Scotland one supposes the Fiscals Office.

White collar crime is only marginally prosecuted in the UK because much of our system is sympathetic towards those involved in business.
(See the recent fiasco regarding furlough money.)
The problem in Scotland would be the absence of experience in investigating this manner of crime.
Had Whyte been investigated by one of the London Fraud Squads and placed in front of an English jury, I would be astonished if he had escaped jail time, such was the coarseness of his undertakings.

Much of the truth regarding these matters is probably buried to protect the faceless men/women who made the most egregious errors.
The people regarding the launch of the entire event against Rangers by HMRC is another mystery.
The guiding hands were certainly not acting for the good of the taxpayer which leaves us with the real million dollar question.
 
bilkobear said:
You might have this the wrong way around.
These types of enquiries are evidence driven and require meticulous oversight by lawyers with experience of financial irregularities.
Cops normally proceed on advice from the CPS, or in Scotland one supposes the Fiscals Office.

White collar crime is only marginally prosecuted in the UK because much of our system is sympathetic towards those involved in business.
(See the recent fiasco regarding furlough money.)
The problem in Scotland would be the absence of experience in investigating this manner of crime.
Had Whyte been investigated by one of the London Fraud Squads and placed in front of an English jury, I would be astonished if he had escaped jail time, such was the coarseness of his undertakings.

Much of the truth regarding these matters is probably buried to protect the faceless men/women who made the most egregious errors.
The people regarding the launch of the entire event against Rangers by HMRC is another mystery.
The guiding hands were certainly not acting for the good of the taxpayer which leaves us with the real million dollar question.
Click to expand...
I can assure you from my inside contact that I have not got it the wrong way around.
The faceless lawyers and tax advisers pushed for criminal prosecution of Whitehouse. Grier, Green Ahmed etc.rather than limiting the claims to the civil actions they should have been.
Had there been no criminal prosecutions. then the corporate lawyers would have had to take the risk of acting on behalf of clients who might lose and not get their massive bills paid with huge bonuses.
 
Was a crazy decision for HMRC to not make a combination for a deal even if it took years to pay it would have been a win win for everyone! Happy to make deals and write off tax debts from likes of Amazon, Starbucks and Vodafone that dwarfed the amounts fabricated against us so this was not just about money!
 
Centralbear said:
Tax and NI at prevailing rates at the time would be little more than £20m.

HMRC calculated our tax due on a "grossing up" basis, essentially near doubling the tax they say we were due and added some £25m of penalties and fines on top bringing total bill to £73m.

Of this BDO have successfully challenged the penalties and fines and had around £25m removed.

BDO further disagree with the "grossing up" method applied, have contested it with a view to halving it reduced by around a half, and even some 10 years later it has not been settled.

Absolute stitch up from the start, HMRC likely could have collected most, or possibly all the tax and NI had they adopted a different stance, they chose the most aggressive approach imaginable and got almost nothing, yet nobody seems to care, or question their approach.

I can only wonder why!
Click to expand...
BDO receive some criticism, not least on their fees. My (unqualified) view is that they've been diligent & determined. Not their fault the SC retrospectively changed UK law on EBT's tax efficiency.
 
monkey magic said:
My own belief is that a group of individuals conspired to rape and ransack our club from the inside, with the stadium eventually to be sold off for housing and tens of millions for each involved to be received. There is, of course, no proof of that as no case ever came to trial, deliberately so.
Click to expand...
String pullers in the background both in politics and wider society including journalism wanted this.
I have absolutely no doubts that seeing the club brought low, they all wanted a sly kick.
 
Coisty09 said:
I can assure you from my inside contact that I have not got it the wrong way around.
The faceless lawyers and tax advisers pushed for criminal prosecution of Whitehouse. Grier, Green Ahmed etc.rather than limiting the claims to the civil actions they should have been.
Had there been no criminal prosecutions. then the corporate lawyers would have had to take the risk of acting on behalf of clients who might lose and not get their massive bills paid with huge bonuses.
Click to expand...
My point is that you are blaming the cops, who should have been acting on advice as the evidence arose during the enquiry.
Cops don't decide to prosecute such cases in the absence of direction from Prosecutors.
Indeed in London accountants assist with direction.
The allegations against rogue cops can only stand if they were misleading the Fiscal's office.

The truth is the fraud enquiries should have been located in London where monies had been moved, because that is where the expertise in such matters rests.
It strikes me as the arrogance of the incompetents not to do so.
 
bilkobear said:
My point is that you are blaming the cops, who should have been acting on advice as the evidence arose during the enquiry.
Cops don't decide to prosecute such cases in the absence of direction from Prosecutors.
Indeed in London accountants assist with direction.
The allegations against rogue cops can only stand if they were misleading the Fiscal's office.

The truth is the fraud enquiries should have been located in London where monies had been moved, because that is where the expertise in such matters rests.
It strikes me as the arrogance of the incompetents not to do so.
Click to expand...
Apologies if I’m not made myself clear.
I’m not blaming the cops.
They were always going to act like knuckle draggers as soon as they got involved.
What I’m saying is that the faceless lawyers and tax people who wanted to protect their own self interest deliberately made it a criminal matter. They did not want to risk their own professional indemnity insurance in the event the only proceedings that took place were civil actions.
The tactics employed were deliberate and designed to ensure that as much money as possible could be milked out of the system by the corporate lawyers, with the taxpayer picking up the tab.
The real powerbrokers chose a particular path to go down, knowing they would all be winners.
That of course included the lawyers representing the Duff and Duffer parties.
The whole thing has been a carve up right from the outset.
That is why there will never be an inquiry.
 
Coisty09 said:
Apologies if I’m not made myself clear.
I’m not blaming the cops.
They were always going to act like knuckle draggers as soon as they got involved.
What I’m saying is that the faceless lawyers and tax people who wanted to protect their own self interest deliberately made it a criminal matter. They did not want to risk their own professional indemnity insurance in the event the only proceedings that took place were civil actions.
The tactics employed were deliberate and designed to ensure that as much money as possible could be milked out of the system by the corporate lawyers, with the taxpayer picking up the tab.
The real powerbrokers chose a particular path to go down, knowing they would all be winners.
That of course included the lawyers representing the Duff and Duffer parties.
The whole thing has been a carve up right from the outset.
That is why there will never be an inquiry.
Click to expand...
A wee bit harsh on the cops.
Whom I suspect were inexperienced around such enquiries.
But I agree with your points.
 
Either the PF screwed up the warrants or PS ignored the warrant restrictions. I would go for the latter as they took everything and they would know seizing everything would invalidate the warrant destroying the court case. Which would protect anyone who might have been trying to destroy the club and had had contact with Duff and Duffer.
 
www.thescottishsun.co.uk

Ex-Rangers owner Craig Whyte to sue cops & Crown for £10m over 'wrongful arrest'

EX-Rangers supremo Craig Whyte is suing cops and prosecutors for £10million over ‘wrongful arrest’, we can reveal. The businessman, 51, was nicked over an alleged fraudulent buyout of the Ibrox clu…
www.thescottishsun.co.uk www.thescottishsun.co.uk

If there is any justice in the world then may Craig Whyte suffer a massive fatal heart attack over the coming months,
 
Snakehips said:
www.thescottishsun.co.uk

Ex-Rangers owner Craig Whyte to sue cops & Crown for £10m over 'wrongful arrest'

EX-Rangers supremo Craig Whyte is suing cops and prosecutors for £10million over ‘wrongful arrest’, we can reveal. The businessman, 51, was nicked over an alleged fraudulent buyout of the Ibrox clu…
www.thescottishsun.co.uk www.thescottishsun.co.uk

If there is any justice in the world then may Craig Whyte suffer a massive fatal heart attack over the coming months,
Click to expand...
There are many that should be added. John Reid for one. I would need to imagine he had others on board to push the agenda.

He seems to be the main driver in getting us punished.
 
What a complete fūcking arse the authorities have made of this whole sorry affair.

Can't believe these cūnts who raped our club are now getting paid millions out of the public purse because some useless arseholes couldn't do their jobs properly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top