Studies underway to add more seats to Ibrox in 2022

Clicker

Well-Known Member
I'm saying that people will get wet anyway depending on the way the wind blows. Also you cant tell me that the first row of seats is plum with with the edge of the roof surely? Their might be an overhang already
I remember an article in the Rangers News when the Copland was being built in 1978-79, saying that big Peter McCloy could stay dry at that end because the roof overhung the bye-line.
Whether the article was completely serious or not I don’t know, but with the prevailing wind from the west I doubt if anyone in the front few rows stays dry.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
Im not saying it was , I’m saying we haven’t done a single thing in terms of improving the surrounds of the stadium for our 150th year . We are two years away and nothing has been done .
You’re correct, even just safe standing would be excellent but still absolutely nothing except replacing side panels of the Broomloan and Copland.
 

Kathmandu

Well-Known Member
Don't know where you got that photo but that is not how the Govan is constructed, even the inset finished mock up shows that.

It is a photoshoped version to show a 3rd tier.
Thank god we have someone who actually knows something. I was told that it was pretty much unfeasible for the corner stuff years ago by Sam Thorburn (my mum was his PA).
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
I
As you say the only way of solving this issue would be to replace the roof and I dont think that would happen unless we were adding an extra tier to make it worthwhilelong term.

We all want a bigger capacity and in the short term the space between the stands and the pitch is the only option along with Bar72 style behind the goals. I don't think this would equate to 6K though.
How much of an increase do you think that’d give us?

Sounds sensible what you’re suggesting (although I’m not an engineer), even if it doesn’t increase the capacity as much as we’d like as long as it’s not too expensive and doesn’t prohibit future increase. From your pictures of Anfield and OT there definitely scope for moving the stands closer to pitch.
 

Denhaag

Active Member
Thank god we have someone who actually knows something. I was told that it was pretty much unfeasible for the corner stuff years ago by Sam Thorburn (my mum was his PA).
It is not unfeasible to do, just expensive for the amout of extra seating we would get. Probably around 2-3k per corner dependant on design. With the Govan truss being the main engineering problem it really only makes sense if another tier is placed on top when the roof is replaced.

A new tier brings it's own issues with supports and foundations and will cost similar to Anfields new stand.

All in all it needs to be done in stages

1. Utilise the space between the stands and pitch. Totals depend on how many rows.
Govan 230 per row 1000-1500
Main 200 per row 1000-2000
Copland 150 per row 300-600
Broomloan 150 per row 300-600
2. Bar 72 style at the Copland and Broomloan upper 1000-1500k

Worst case we would be looking at 3500 and absolutely pushing it 6000.
 

mummymonkey

Well-Known Member
I remember an article in the Rangers News when the Copland was being built in 1978-79, saying that big Peter McCloy could stay dry at that end because the roof overhung the bye-line.
Whether the article was completely serious or not I don’t know, but with the prevailing wind from the west I doubt if anyone in the front few rows stays dry.
I had a season ticket for the front row of The Copland near the corner with The Main Stand. Before the Club Deck was built the water used to get blown out of The Main Stand's guttering and soak us all. And you're right about the wind - a mass retreat towards the back (plenty empty seats then) was in order for anything more than a spot of the wet stuff.
 

crookie_bear

Well-Known Member
Could we not extend the roof support on the Govan past each corner section and encompass it within a new corner design?Similar to how it is now within the screens.

Any new corner roofing can be supported similar to how Borussia Dortmund have theirs?
This would defo be the way, but I expect costly, would look great.
 
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Kathmandu

Well-Known Member
Ooh engineer friends:))
He was the stadium go to man at that time, they pretty much got bombed out when DM came in and refused to use any contractors connected to the LM regime. Apparently he advised DM against the design of the club deck, advice DM rued not listening to as the project was a bit of a disappointment with it being too steep and the inability to see the far touchline from the top few rows.
 

RangersForever

Well-Known Member
and another



This shows the main problem with the roof truss. It is massive.
Makes me wonder how the stan
and another



This shows the main problem with the roof truss. It is massive.
Some people have said these stands were designed to allow a third tier. That may be the case in terms of their strength and the loads they can take but it looks quite obvious from your photo that the "crossbar" of a stand would need to be removed to allow viewing from a third tier, and that looks major when looking at how substantial those crossbars are.

It looks as if Ibrox was so well made that it's going to be difficult to add significant numbers without major costs.

It won't add significant numbers but would like to see the ends of the enclosures rising up higher and curving round towards the Copland and Broomloan. Couldn't go too near to the end stands without taking away part of the Copland/Broomloan sides but could get a thousand or so at each corner if similar to the other corners.
 

Clicker

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the Club underestimated the potential attendances when the “new” Ibrox was designed in the 70s, with the three new stands having a combined capacity of 25,000 which added to the existing Main Stand and Enclosures gave us 44,000 in total - the attendance at the last ever game before reconstruction began was 65,000 for John Greig’s testimonial.
Then in 1986 when we brought Graeme Souness in demand went through the roof and the piecemeal expansions had to happen, the Club Deck and the front corners added but screens in the rear corners. I wonder if the screens were done because the cost of seating the whole corners even then was prohibitive despite the bluster about “beambacks” being the way ahead?
 

GF1

Well-Known Member
I don't get everyone's hatred of the screens. When they didn't work for a while everyone moaned like feck to get them back on. It's great for replays of goals and when VAR comes in will allow us to see the incidents at the same time. This can no doubt have an advantage in us putting pressure on officials
 

Carlton The Bear

Well-Known Member
when VAR comes in will allow us to see the incidents at the same time. This can no doubt have an advantage in us putting pressure on officials
That will never happen any time soon. I’m not even aware of any VAR implementation that shows live replays to football stadiums, anywhere.

Rugby Union, yes. With the TMO - but not VAR.
 

Blu_ultra

Well-Known Member
Look, we're struggling to remain self sufficient nevermind spending 50 million on new tiers etc. That isn't going to happen in the short to medium term. I quite like the balcony style on top of the govan corners, digging down to add a few rows and adding a few rows on top of the sandy jardine. Ultimately, the club have said a 'few thousand' seats. That means we will see a few thosuand max. It's underwhelming, however unless bears get behind a scheme that funds major change it won't happen. If we could raise 10 million as fans, we win the league and qualify for the CL, plus we sell Alfie and Borna for 50 million combined then we might see something a little more ambitious.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
Look, we're struggling to remain self sufficient nevermind spending 50 million on new tiers etc. That isn't going to happen in the short to medium term. I quite like the balcony style on top of the govan corners, digging down to add a few rows and adding a few rows on top of the sandy jardine. Ultimately, the club have said a 'few thousand' seats. That means we will see a few thosuand max. It's underwhelming, however unless bears get behind a scheme that funds major change it won't happen. If we could raise 10 million as fans, we win the league and qualify for the CL, plus we sell Alfie and Borna for 50 million combined then we might see something a little more ambitious.
I would rather we have Safe Standing before then. I want Ibrox to have an atmosphere consistently on a week-to-week basis, no matter the opposition.
 

crookie_bear

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the Club underestimated the potential attendances when the “new” Ibrox was designed in the 70s, with the three new stands having a combined capacity of 25,000 which added to the existing Main Stand and Enclosures gave us 44,000 in total - the attendance at the last ever game before reconstruction began was 65,000 for John Greig’s testimonial.
Then in 1986 when we brought Graeme Souness in demand went through the roof and the piecemeal expansions had to happen, the Club Deck and the front corners added but screens in the rear corners. I wonder if the screens were done because the cost of seating the whole corners even then was prohibitive despite the bluster about “beambacks” being the way ahead?
The highest average attendance for a season in our entire history up untill the 70s was about 45k believe it or not . So maybe they based it on that. The year we had 118k at Ibrox we only averaged about 24k for the year.
 

OrigTommy

Well-Known Member
Would this not cause view restrictions to back of club deck.
I'd be certain that dropping the pitch any further would lead to the back rows of the Club Deck becoming restricted view.

We'd need to narrow the pitch to Dynamo Kiev levels in order to keep the seats at the back able to see both touchlines without restriction.

Hopefully the club take their time on this and do anything rash that could negatively impact the Ibrox experience for others.
 

OrigTommy

Well-Known Member
Safe standing doesnt generate more money.

We need cash before we need people standing at games.
If we can sell spaces to a ratio more than 1:1 then yes, it could generate us money. And bring back the atmosphere too.

Should there be a redevelopment, that's the time to address not only safe standing but also the disabled section which is currently unacceptable.
 

OrigTommy

Well-Known Member
As a comparison Liverpool have plans to add another 7000 seats to their Anfield Road Stand increasing it from 9000 capacity to 16000.

Interesting fact about Liverpool from the Price of Football podcast. They limit season ticket sales to 25,000.

This allows them to service day tripper, international tourists etc who, if they do only one visit to Anfield that year, will also supplement the trip by spending a few hundred quid in the megastore.

Tourists spend the money every week on merch, those that go every week don't.

An interesting approach. Obviously we don't have the same kind of tourist market here (and let's not even talk about our megastore) but it's an interesting strategy based around maximising matchday spend for the benefit of the club.
 

Rooster

Well-Known Member
A more basic thing I’d like to see an update is the concourses. We can’t make hot food and although we can’t sell drink there is no facility for concerts. No heating, seating and limited TVs. We should be trying to modernise those areas which would eventually repay itself. I wonder if they could even be expanded to move the turnstiles further back
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
A more basic thing I’d like to see an update is the concourses. We can’t make hot food and although we can’t sell drink there is no facility for concerts. No heating, seating and limited TVs. We should be trying to modernise those areas which would eventually repay itself. I wonder if they could even be expanded to move the turnstiles further back
Our contract with elior catering finishes the end of this season so think we would all hope/expect there to be a massive improvment in the food options and quality for next season.
 

Clicker

Well-Known Member
The highest average attendance for a season in our entire history up untill the 70s was about 45k believe it or not . So maybe they based it on that. The year we had 118k at Ibrox we only averaged about 24k for the year.
The attendances certainly fluctuated, I was at a Scottish Cup tie against Hibs at Ibrox in January 1970 and the crowd was over 73,000. The previous week we played Ayr United in the league at Ibrox and the crowd was 32,000.
 

Klaus

Well-Known Member
Heard that Keppie Archiects and ARUP Engineers are looking into this plus old Edminson House.

Still question of who will pay for it plus these seats would not be covered so if you were to extend the roof that would be very expensive
I've worked with both of them on my last two jobs. Wonder if we will get a contact and I will be involved in the design :D
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
If there's serious talk about taking the screens away and increasing seats numbers this is the way to do it.



The roof has to come off the Govan and, like they did for the San Siro, you build a larger structure to the rear of the Govan where Argyll House is that allows an additional tier.

A cantilver roof is then put on "similar" to the Club Deck. The same happens with the roofs in the corners.



We might get away with leaving the goal post structures on the end stands ( depending on how well they can be re-engineered) but it would end up with a few sight lines being restricted as the pillar is required to be retained from the existing structure. Something could possibly be done to lessen the loading and the two black goal post pillars, at the Govan side of the stands, can be moved further back but it does provide restricted views.

It's similar to what Liverpool have currently done. Theirs cost figures that we couldn't even dream of at the moment unless there was investment based on naming of the stand / stadium. It's such a long term pay back that it's basically never going to happen as far as our current set up goes.

We wouldn't have to build the additional tier all the same unless we were trying to hit 65k which is overkill IMO.

If we got to 60k it'd be plenty. You're adding about 5k to the capacity with the upper corner sections filled in. If this was coupled with the feasability studies currently going on with adding seats by lowering the pitch, you'd pretty much be there at 60k.

Again, though, there's the option to just add rows to the back of the existing Govan rather than create a complete Club Deck style tier and the seats would be better up there than below current ground level. 10 rows would add 3k to the 5k from the corners and pretty much be 60k. You lose Argyll House at that point though.

It's all possible but when it comes down to money, it's not going to happen.
 
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Denhaag

Active Member
Courtesy of Beer Belly Loyal and Baron von Pie Muncher (are they related)




This shows how lessening the angle of terrace would allow the top tier of the Copland and Broomloan to have a Govan style Bar72 extension. The Govan has a 5-6 seat overhang.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder how the stan

Some people have said these stands were designed to allow a third tier. That may be the case in terms of their strength and the loads they can take but it looks quite obvious from your photo that the "crossbar" of a stand would need to be removed to allow viewing from a third tier, and that looks major when looking at how substantial those crossbars are.

It looks as if Ibrox was so well made that it's going to be difficult to add significant numbers without major costs.

It won't add significant numbers but would like to see the ends of the enclosures rising up higher and curving round towards the Copland and Broomloan. Couldn't go too near to the end stands without taking away part of the Copland/Broomloan sides but could get a thousand or so at each corner if similar to the other corners.
Courtesy of Beer Belly Loyal and Baron von Pie Muncher (are they related)




This shows how lessening the angle of terrace would allow the top tier of the Copland and Broomloan to have a Govan style Bar72 extension. The Govan has a 5-6 seat overhang.
We really don't want to be lowering them though. They're elevated as it is so you've got some form of sight line to the far end of the park from behind the goals. That's why they were different to the Govan in the first place.

Any work we do should be for improvements and not to the detriment of existing seats (which is something Murray completely failed to take heed of with the loss of Main Stand seats creating the Club Deck and the half assed way the Enclosures were seated)
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
If there's serious talk about taking the screens away and increasing seats numbers this is the way to do it.



The roof has to come off the Govan and, like they did for the San Siro, you build a larger structure to the rear of the Govan where Argyll House is that allows an additional tier.

A cantilver roof is then put on "similar" to the Club Deck. The same happens with the roofs in the corners.



We might get away with leaving the goal post structures on the end stands ( depending on how well they can be re-engineered) but it would end up with a few sight lines being restricted as the pillar is required to be retained from the existing structure. Something could possibly be done to lessen the loading and the two black goal post pillars, at the Govan side of the stands, can be moved further back but it does provide restricted views.

It's similar to what Liverpool have currently done. Theirs cost figures that we couldn't even dream of at the moment unless their was investment based on naming of the stand / stadium. It's such a long term pay back that it's basically never going to happen as far as our current set up goes.

We wouldn't have to build the additional tier all the same unless we were trying to hit 70k which is overkill IMO. If we got to 60k it'd be plenty. You're adding about 5k to the capacity with the upper corner sections filled in. If this was coupled with the feasability studies currently going on with adding seats by lowering the pitch, you'd pretty much be there at 60k.
Thanks for posting mate very informative.

Im guessing you have an engineering background.

Would you be able to take an educated guess and what it may cost to actually fill in the corners and you reckon this would give us an extra 5k? seems a lot to me.

Also what would be your estimate on the cost for lowering the pitch and adding seating or does this really depend on the feasibility study and also how many seats we are looking to add + potential issues to overcome?
 

EndOfDays

Well-Known Member
Look, we're struggling to remain self sufficient nevermind spending 50 million on new tiers etc. That isn't going to happen in the short to medium term. I quite like the balcony style on top of the govan corners, digging down to add a few rows and adding a few rows on top of the sandy jardine. Ultimately, the club have said a 'few thousand' seats. That means we will see a few thosuand max. It's underwhelming, however unless bears get behind a scheme that funds major change it won't happen. If we could raise 10 million as fans, we win the league and qualify for the CL, plus we sell Alfie and Borna for 50 million combined then we might see something a little more ambitious.
4500 new season ticket holder seats is 10% increase of our season ticket income which is currently at £15M.

Throw in euro sales and other cup games and you would be looking at an extra £2M per season. Even £10M cost to do it would be worth it if it's paying for itself in only 5 years.
 

RaoulDuke11

Well-Known Member
Interesting fact about Liverpool from the Price of Football podcast. They limit season ticket sales to 25,000.

This allows them to service day tripper, international tourists etc who, if they do only one visit to Anfield that year, will also supplement the trip by spending a few hundred quid in the megastore.

Tourists spend the money every week on merch, those that go every week don't.

An interesting approach. Obviously we don't have the same kind of tourist market here (and let's not even talk about our megastore) but it's an interesting strategy based around maximising matchday spend for the benefit of the club.
Even if we had the tourist-numbers of a premier league club, i'd hate for us to adopt this approach.

The matchday experience is the heart and soul of the football club. To restrict the hardcore support - a huge number who are unable to get a ticket in any case - to welcome daytrippers would be a bad move.

I get the business motive, but the proliferation of TV coverage and media hype afforded to the EPL makes this a wee bit of an unnecessary step in my opinion.

Half and half scarfs galore.

F*ck that.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting mate very informative.

Im guessing you have an engineering background.

Would you be able to take an educated guess and what it may cost to actually fill in the corners and you reckon this would give us an extra 5k? seems a lot to me.

Also what would be your estimate on the cost for lowering the pitch and adding seating or does this really depend on the feasibility study and also how many seats we are looking to add + potential issues to overcome?
It's very much "how long is a bit of string?"

Man U added 7500 to their capacity by filling in the upper corners of the stand opposite their camera so similar to what we'd look at doing and it was somewhere between £50m and £75m 10 years ago.

I don't know the complete ins and outs of that particular project but given it's similar in terms of what it achieved, it's going to up there around those kind of silly figures. As a soon as we're above £20m and costs which aren't going to be paid back within a 5-10 year period, I just don't see it being an option.

We were £14m for 7500 seats in the CD in 1990. It today's money that's about £40m and we have to bear in mind that for those 7500 additional seats, we only added about 4500 - 5000 to the capacity as the Main Stand lost a load given Murray's architects failings on that project. That was also for works that solely concentrated on one stand. We have to deal with the end stands during any of these works.

There was a discussion on the thread about Edmiston House about it all. We had people telling us on that thread you could add 10k to the Copland! Lol. The entire stand as it is holds 8000. The back row would be in Livingston.


You look at Liverpool's recent Main Stand works and it was £100m for that. They added 8500 to their capacity. Again, the argument back on that thread from a certain poster was "you don't need to spend EPL money" but unfortunately building works don't trickle down cost wise as EPL payments do compared to SPL levels.

Also on the Liverpool element of things, they don't have the integration to the end stands as we're trying to achieve.


upload pic

They did knock down their existing lower tiers to start again which obviously had massive costs but what we have to do with the corner roofs and any works coming round the corner greatly increase our potential spend.

You have to consider lost revenue when the works are ongoing. Do we relocate to Hampden or tell 10k people in the Govan they can't have their ST for a year?

The lower section under the screen currently holds 800 or so seats. You'd get approximately three times that in the upper area. Consider it like a piece of Dairylea cheese. You've got one wedge in the lower section, you'd have three in the top sections at either end of the ground so roughly 2400 x 2

It just can't see it happening while we operate under current spending levels.
 
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