"Ibrox" without the unionbears

[Axelrod]

being cowards..............

Not buying that .

Anyone who inexplicably wants to come to Ibrox to sing about the pope/IRA/Bobby sands or 19th Century Terrorists can piss off as far as I’m concerned . Cringeworthy, tacky , neddy embarrassing nonsense .

And as I say I haven’t heard much of it at all this season to everyone’s credit . For most the penny has dropped .

 

[Sir Walter]

There was plenty of attempts at singing and encouraging the team. It was a poor atmosphere largely down to what was happening on the park but the rest of the support didn't change from any other game, refuse to back the team or ask others to do likewise.

So as I said, the UB supported the team the same way as the 48k others, by not singing

 

[Coop1872]

Its hard to tell the percentage this summer. But you need to factor in family groups. If there are multiple 3 or 4 member groups in BF 2/3 then logistically it could be a nightmare to move them. Though that is just one factor. The short time frame, the sight-lines, stewarding, zero engagment with those ST holders over any move also must be considered and for me it was too late for next season (granted the decision wasn't made by myself).

Although the move was for a relatively small number I would have expected those behind the UB who joined BF1 to be part of the club's official singing section would also wish to move so there is knock on effects

The whole of BF3 consists of about 750 people. It shouldn't be that hard to carry out a survey of that part of the ground and even easier if you concentrate on those immediately affected in rows A to G.

 

[Greg Marshall]

The whole of BF3 consists of about 750 people. It shouldn't be that hard to carry out a survey of that part of the ground and even easier if you concentrate on those immediately affected in rows A to G.

The club have made the call on it - all the renewal information (including timeline) has been finalised and we are well into that process. When you move any supporters in large number you need to show them the respect to give them due consideration. I appreciate the narrative that no supporter owns their seat but Rangers Football Club owes a great deal to our fans and at all times you have to try and get the balance right

 

[MSF]

I suspect that no matter what I said you would back that position. But if the concerns aren't addressed then it will not progress. Time to be pragmatic if your goal is to achieve safe standing. The questions asked aren't insurmountable at all imo.

What is the questions that need answered for the board?

I appreciate you trying to help explain the situation etc, but it just seems like stalling tactics by the board. In August 2017 they said a feasability survey has taken place & they were considering the findings.

32 months ago. What questions do they possibly still have that need answered?

 

[Bri RTID]

In what way?

it was a figure of speech ........if the club wanted something they would get it even if it meant upsetting the fan base?

ps: should of put a question mark at the end of that post

 

[Bluebrox]

The club have made the call on it - all the renewal information (including timeline) has been finalised and we are well into that process. When you move any supporters in large number you need to show them the respect to give them due consideration. I appreciate the narrative that no supporter owns their seat but Rangers Football Club owes a great deal to our fans and at all times you have to try and get the balance right

If I was being cynical, I would say that the club have deliberately run down the clock on this so they can conveniently turn round and say "ah, but unfortunately it's too late to communicate to fans"

Feasibility study done 2 years ago - yet they are STILL stalling.

 

[Greg Marshall]

What is the questions that need answered for the board?

I appreciate you trying to help explain the situation etc, but it just seems like stalling tactics by the board. In August 2017 they said a feasability survey has taken place & they were considering the findings.

32 months ago. What questions do they possibly still have that need answered?

I've given the examples several times in this thread already.

The feasibility study was done for BF1 and the Govan East Corner iirc. The second survey was for the whole of the Broomloan.

As referenced to another previous post - the club has had a great deal of works on in the last few years (the roofs alone are over £3m) we are getting the to stage where the idea is more fully formed and we have the time for it to progress so hopefully that opportunity is taken by the fans who wish it to progress.

 

[Greg Marshall]

If I was being cynical, I would say that the club have deliberately run down the clock on this so they can conveniently turn round and say "ah, but unfortunately it's too late to communicate to fans"

In what way was the clock ran down?

The club was asked on the Tuesday the 19th of February and responded the next Monday.

Before that the move wasn't a proposal on the table to be considered.

This isn't a them and us thing. We as a club and a fanbase need to work together. If anyone wants to make it a them and us thing then they are hindering progress imo.

 

[Bluebrox]

In what way was the clock ran down?

The club was asked on the Tuesday the 19th of February and responded the next Monday.

Before that the move wasn't a proposal on the table to be considered

The club have been aware for years that a percentage of fans want safe standing and that it should be in a prominent position. This is not a new thing.

They are using every delaying tactic in the book. Thankfully, many of us can see through it.

 

[MSF]

In what way was the clock ran down?

The club was asked on the Tuesday the 19th of February and responded the next Monday.

Before that the move wasn't a proposal on the table to be considered.

This isn't a them and us thing. We as a club and a fanbase need to work together. If anyone wants to make it a them and us thing then they are hindering progress imo.

Are you saying the first time SS was asked for was the 19th of Feb?

 

[Greg Marshall]

it was a figure of speech ........if the club wanted something they would get it even if it meant upsetting the fan base?

ps: should of put a question mark at the end of that post

Our club considers the fanbase continually. Somethings will be unpopular but the interests of fans are considered in every decision - from reading online some won't believe that but its true.

 

[Bri RTID]

The club have been aware for years that a percentage of fans want safe standing and that it should be in a prominent position. This is not a new thing.

They are using every delaying tactic in the book.

I remember Charles Green at a supporters meeting saying he will look into it.

it is not a new thing indeed

 

[MSF]

I've given the examples several times in this thread already.

The feasibility study was done for BF1 and the Govan East Corner iirc. The second survey was for the whole of the Broomloan.

As referenced to another previous post - the club has had a great deal of works on in the last few years (the roofs alone are over £3m) we are getting the to stage where the idea is more fully formed and we have the time for it to progress fans who wish it to progress.

“stewarding/security
behavior (including songbook)
ensuring that those who consider safe standing as incompatible with the vision of Ibrox following the disaster are fully considered and their feelings addressed”

So thats the 3 obstacles currently? Hmm...

 

[Greg Marshall]

The club have been aware for years that a percentage of fans want safe standing and that it should be in a prominent position. This is not a new thing.

They are using every delaying tactic in the book. Thankfully, many of us can see through it.

Safe standing and the move are two distinct points - you are blurring them.

 

[Bluebrox]

I remember Charles Green at a supporters meeting saying he will look into it.

it is not a new thing indeed

Exactly mate. It's been a fan request for years.

 

[Axelrod]

I've given the examples several times in this thread already.

The feasibility study was done for BF1 and the Govan East Corner iirc. The second survey was for the whole of the Broomloan.

As referenced to another previous post - the club has had a great deal of works on in the last few years (the roofs alone are over £3m) we are getting the to stage where the idea is more fully formed and we have the time for it to progress so hopefully that opportunity is taken by the fans who wish it to progress.

I’ve said before Greg , to me commonsense would seem to be pointing towards no move for anyone but implement safe standing in BF1 once agreement on conduct has been reached . It’s a cheap option and gives the club a chance to monitor a small section for a season and also the fans to sample it .

If it’s a success it can be rolled out to BF2, and so on , incrementally if demand is there .

Just my opinion .

 

[Bluebrox]

Safe standing and the move are two distinct points - you are blurring them.

I'm not sure that me as a fan is blurring anything in this whole scenario. I think the club is a doing a very god job of blurring things to suit their own agenda.

 

[Greg Marshall]

I’ve said before Greg , to me commonsense would seem to be pointing towards no move for anyone but implement safe standing in BF1 once agreement on conduct has been reached . It’s a cheap option and gives the club a chance to monitor a small section for a season and also the fans to sample it .

If it’s a success it can be rolled out to BF2, and so on , incrementally if demand is there .

Just my opinion .

I suspect if that was something that was desired by the fans pushing the idea then it would be done but I think if we are going to progress the idea we should go larger. I don't think a token safe standing area satisfies personally though the point as a trail to expand it out subject to its success is not without merit.

 

[Axelrod]

I suspect if that was something that was desired by the fans pushing the idea then it would be done but I think if we are going to progress the idea we should go larger. I don't think a token safe standing area satisfies personally though the point as a trail to expand it out subject to its success is not without merit.

On a personal level nor do I however perhaps it’s something the club would be more amenable to cost wise with all the other upgrades currently taking up budget and time . I reckon marking BF1 safe standing is a quick cheap and common sense option for now which could please many , and as I say monitor it check demand for more and roll it out if successful .

 

[Bri RTID]

@Greg Marshall But can you answer my Dave king/Aberdeen question???

 

[Buffalo]

Exactly mate. It's been a fan request for years.

TBF, there were much much more important things to be concentrating on and spending money on in the period between Green saying they were looking at it and now.

The fact it is now officially being looked it and surveys done and the other work suggests progress is being made.

The stadium was in complete disrepair, millions have been spent on it, millions have been spent on other more important things, Safe standing has been well down the pecking order and quite rightly.

I want to see it, but not at the expense of more important things that have taken precedent, to say oh but the fans have been going on about it for years is very narrow minded and quite frankly once again shortsighted.

I think it will come, but all parties including the people being asked to move have to have an agreement, plucking fictitious numbers like 90% are happy with it doesn't mean that the board can say ok so because Bluebrox or someone else has made that number up, tomorrow we take out the seats and by 3pm we have safe standing with everyone happy.

This is real world not fantasy island.

 

[Greg Marshall]

Before I switch off for tonight...

Greg , where was the Rangers statement of disgust at the Aberdeen Scottish cup allocation decision.?

But king can fire a email in support of Steve Clarke within a day ?

Sorry but engagement with fans needs to be properly explained here.

Football club's tend not to make statements of disgust over allocations. We were disappointed that Aberdeen and the police dictated that our allocation was limited to 10% but we used the same rules in the replay to limit them to the standard away allocation. This was explained at the time (though some for whatever reason chose not to believe it was true). I agree it was a big frustration.

The issue is unrelated to any Steve Clarke statement.

 

[bigbluenose]

The question still stands.

Would the UB be prepared to clean up the song book in return for a safe standing area?

They should clean up the song book anyway as its hurting the club.
The 50p flute song is embarrassing

 

[Greg Marshall]

That’s a fair answer if that’s the case. They should be pushing from the summer to get safe standing and that could open the door for the move too as people who would be in the standing section currently might not want to stand.

If safe standing were to proceed I suspect that a move for the group would be part of that project

 

[Bri RTID]

Football club's tend not to make statements of disgust over allocations. We were disappointed that Aberdeen and the police dictated that our allocation was limited to 10% but we used the same rules in the replay to limit them to the standard away allocation. This was explained at the time (though some for whatever reason chose not to believe it was true). I agree it was a big frustration.

The issue is unrelated to any Steve Clarke statement.

they did when Hibernian cut our allocation once...

 

[Sheik Ma Shammy]

Good football gets the support going we are not getting that just now hence the atmosphere.

 

[hurlock22]

Not buying that .

Anyone who inexplicably wants to come to Ibrox to sing about the pope/IRA/Bobby sands or 19th Century Terrorists can piss off as far as I’m concerned . Cringeworthy, tacky , neddy embarrassing nonsense .

And as I say I haven’t heard much of it at all this season to everyone’s credit . For most the penny has dropped .

Maybe if we had more songs that didnt have the add ons the crowd would join in.

 

[Marstonbear]

Hope this gets sorted, no one is winning at present

 

[Bri RTID]

Maybe if we had more songs that didnt have the add ons the crowd would join in.

not too sure...........................................

 

[Buffalo]

they did when Hibernian cut our allocation once...

Do you really want a club statement every time something like that happens?

We made the statement in the return leg by giving them 800, do we really need the board to come up with a statement everytime something happens we don't like.

 

[Bri RTID]

Do you really want a club statement every time something like that happens?

We made the statement in the return leg by giving them 800, do we really need the board to come up with a statement everytime something happens we don't like.

Well yes, I do ....want something rather than being left in the dark to just carry on with it.

Aberdeen was a perfect oppertunity for the club to ask the question why have it in the rule book if it cant be done????????????

 

[Buffalo]

Well yes, I do ....want something rather than being left in the dark to just carry on with it.

Aberdeen was a perfect oppertunity for the club to ask the question why have it in the rule book if it cant be done????????????

It was clearly stated the reasons for it, we might not like it, we not think it is fair but come on you want a statement from the club over it, we would be handing out statements every two days.

Do you want the club to come and swipe your smart card for you aswell ffs

 

[Bri RTID]

It was clearly stated the reasons for it, we might not like it, we not think it is fair but come on you want a statement from the club over it, we would be handing out statements every two days.

Do you want the club to come and swipe your smart card for you aswell ffs

The club NEVER asked the question or challenged it...........that simple.....

 

[Buffalo]

The club NEVER asked the question or challenged it...........that simple.....

And you know this?

You know the club didn't privately ask the police and Aberdeen about the security certificate issue?

Sticking things in Bold and adding 20 questions marks doesn't change the fact Aberdeen and the police gave the reason, there was nothing Rangers could have done.

Tell me what your statement would have been (Not pictures if possible mate).

 

[Bri RTID]

And you know this?

You know the club didn't privately ask the police and Aberdeen about the security certificate issue?

Sticking things in Bold and adding 20 questions marks doesn't change the fact Aberdeen and the police gave the reason, there was nothing Rangers could have done.

Tell me what your statement would have been (Not pictures if possible mate).

Ask why 20% is in the rule book if the request cannot be for filled

 

[Axelrod]

Ask why 20% is in the rule book if the request cannot be for filled

You’ve been told numerous times the 20% is a recommendation NOT a set in stone amount .

You don’t seem to listen .

 

[Bluebrox]

TBF, there were much much more important things to be concentrating on and spending money on in the period between Green saying they were looking at it and now.

The fact it is now officially being looked it and surveys done and the other work suggests progress is being made.

The stadium was in complete disrepair, millions have been spent on it, millions have been spent on other more important things, Safe standing has been well down the pecking order and quite rightly.

I want to see it, but not at the expense of more important things that have taken precedent, to say oh but the fans have been going on about it for years is very narrow minded and quite frankly once again shortsighted.

I think it will come, but all parties including the people being asked to move have to have an agreement, plucking fictitious numbers like 90% are happy with it doesn't mean that the board can say ok so because Bluebrox or someone else has made that number up, tomorrow we take out the seats and by 3pm we have safe standing with everyone happy.

This is real world not fantasy island.

I'm all for improvements to the stadium. I get that. Lick of paint, some other improvements - all great. BUT the real important issue at the heart of a football stadium is its soul.

You can make all the cosmetic or structural changes you want - but when a place lacks soul anything else becomes secondary. Apart from a handful of games a season, the atmosphere is dire and has been for years. It lacks vibrancy. It lacks excitement, it lacks passion, it lacks noise. UB's are doing their best to swim against that tide - but they keep coming up against wave of opposition from within the club.

All we are wanting is a stadium atmosphere to be proud of and one that can help inspire our players, launch fear into the opposition and also put smiles back on the faces in a place where people can enjoy the matchday atmosphere/experience.

If you actually strip it all down, what the UB's and other fans are requesting is not unreasonable - at all.

 

[Buffalo]

Ask why 20% is in the rule book if the request cannot be for filled

Thats what your statement would be

Do you know the actual wording of the rule?

Could it be that it says 20% to be given however certain circumstances may dictate a lower allocation for the away team?

Why didn't Aberdeen release a statement about only getting 800, should they have released one?

Aberdeen and The police stated clearly the reason why, we would have looked as stupid as you are now if we came out with that sort of statement

 

[daven37]

being cowards..............

Not helpful comments like this.

 

[Bri RTID]

Thats what your statement would be

Do you know the actual wording of the rule?

Could it be that it says 20% to be given however certain circumstances may dictate a lower allocation for the away team?

Why didn't Aberdeen release a statement about only getting 800, should they have released one?

Aberdeen and The police stated clearly the reason why, we would have looked as stupid as you are now if we came out with that sort of statement

so did the club ask?

 

[Buffalo]

I'm all for improvements to the stadium. I get that. Lick of paint, some other improvements - all great. BUT the real important issue at the heart of a football stadium is its soul.

You can make all the cosmetic or structural changes you want - but when a place lacks soul anything else becomes secondary. Apart from a handful of games a season, the atmosphere is dire and has been for years. It lacks vibrancy. It lacks excitement, it lacks passion, it lacks noise. UB's are doing their best to swim against that tide - but they keep coming up against wave of opposition from within the club.

All we are wanting is a stadium atmosphere to be proud of and one that can help inspire our players, launch fear into the opposition and also put smiles back on the faces in a place where people can enjoy the matchday atmosphere/experience.

If you actually strip it all down, what the UB's and other fans are requesting is not unreasonable - at all.

Nobody says it is.

But real needed maintenance takes precedent over sage standing, it really is very simple, the stadium was filthy and in desperate need of work done to it.

The club need to prioritise, what did you want? A filthy stadium falling apart but look we have safe standing.

The club have done the right thing and are clearly now looking towards to Safe standing, they need to however canvas the majority of fans, they can't just fictionalise a number and say aye they wan't it.

Do I want it, Yes, Do I also want a clean and safe Ibrox, Yes.

 

[Greg Marshall]

The club NEVER asked the question or challenged it...........that simple.....

Except we did ask for 20% and there was no course to get it overruled as Aberdeen broke no rules (the police exemption is within the rules)

 

[Bri RTID]

Except we did ask for 20% and there was no course to get it overruled as Aberdeen broke no rules (the police exemption is within the rules)

so why not ask why is it there in the first place? hence my comments

I believe that was perfect opportunity missed

 

[Buffalo]

so did the club ask?

You are the one claiming they didn't.

You are now changing from your ridiculous stance of "STATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" to have the club asked, I would have expected them to ask to view the safety certificate, however in reality there was no need to ask, as both the Police, Aberdeen and the SFA confirmed the reason.

So again, your cries of Statement are as ridiculous as the actual statement you wanted put out.

This is derailing a thread that actually need debating, so I will leave it as is.

 

[Bri RTID]

You are the one claiming they didn't.

You are now changing from your ridiculous stance of "STATEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" to have the club asked, I would have expected them to ask to view the safety certificate, however in reality there was no need to ask, as both the Police, Aberdeen and the SFA confirmed the reason.

So again, your cries of Statement are as ridiculous as the actual statement you wanted put out.

This is derailing a thread that actually need debating, so I will leave it as is.

Rangers should of asked the question as I just told Greg there

perfect opportunity missed

 

[Buffalo]

so why not ask why is it there in the first place? hence my comments

I believe that was perfect opportunity missed

He has clearly stated it is there with a police exemption which is in the rules.

No rules were broken.

Opportunity for what?

Ach forget it I said I was out and I am, you are hurting my heid

 

[Bri RTID]

He has clearly stated it is there with a police exemption which is in the rules.

No rules were broken.

Opportunity for what?

Ach forget it I said I was out and I am, you are hurting my heid

why is a recommendation for 20% allocation in the rule book , in the first place if it can be overruled and not given on any grounds ?

its a simple question That I would of liked the club to of asked .

 

[steincolin]

That’s good to hear . If the concerns are chants / songs, the UB simply must adhere to what the club want . There can’t be any grey areas on that and I’m sure the UB and all fans need to appreciate that and move with the times . I have to say I haven’t heard much if any pope/IRA/sands rubbish at our games and I sit right behind the UB with my son .

That's fare enough but the worst thing the club done was apologise to Steve Clarke. We have have Steve Clarkes own fans on Saturday calling people from ayr Black bastards in a song. I don't give to flying fcks what opposition fans sing. There's people all over the world getting shot stabbed ect ect yet in Scotland we bother what football fans sing. Thank god I grew up before All this pc shyte

 

[Axelrod]

Except we did ask for 20% and there was no course to get it overruled as Aberdeen broke no rules (the police exemption is within the rules)

You are wasting your time with certain individuals squire . They will argue black is white .