Gerrard has more points this season - at the same stage - than the last three times we won the league.

WinkieWATP

Well-Known Member
I'd love to find all those threads when Gerrard took over about how this was a 5 year project.

Anyone who doesn't think there has been improvement in the last 18 months needs sectioned for their own mental sanity.
Of course there has been improvement, even a blind man would see that. The FF world however is knee jerk to everything that happens and you are as good or as bad as your last 90 mins.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
3 more wins, a cup final appearence and yet more progression in Europe including wins AND remaining unbeaten against Feyenoord and Porto over 4 games.

Last three weeks doesn't alter that fact. It's been a horrible 3 weeks but I'm not going to sit here and kid myself that we're not learning anything as a team.

We've scored more goals, conceded less goals, gained more points.
Salient points Dunc, all too easily lost on those who only see Celtic ahead of us.

But . . . they are ahead of us, significantly so, and we've been dreadful since the new year and it doesn't appear to be abating.

There are big questions being asked of him now and rightly so. He can't keep on hoping his plan A will suddenly click into gear again, he needs to enforce changes himself - that's what he's there for.

I always think this is when you really see what managers are made of - how they respond to crises.

If he can get us back to our best again - and it needs to begin tomorrow - maybe claw back a bit of ground on Celtic and, it has to be said, win the Scottish Cup for us, this current bad patch will be just that - a bad patch.

If he doesn't though, well . . .
 

wsb&warmy

Well-Known Member
How many points did the tarriers have after 25 games last season?

That's a genuine question that I don't know the answer to by the way. Just curious.

EDIT: Just found out the info myself there. They had 57 points after 25 games last season.

I know that counts for hee haw in the grand scheme of things, but we're on course (potentially) to finish on a points total that would've been enough to secure the league title as recent as last season. Think it shows a decent level of progress.
 
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TPB90

Well-Known Member
Points totals are irrelevant. Walter's side usually always found a way to win when it really matters, this side never do.
 

Rangerstid72

Well-Known Member
We haven't folded at all. We've had a few horrific results in an otherwise improvement on last year.

Celtic will collapse at one point just as we did (despite being miles ahead of them in every department) in 1997/98.
I hope so brother. I feel a bit better. I'm a bit of a cold fish at times, but this hurts.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
Now we have loan player as clubs cant afford to spend money and the clubs now are only afloat since we came back as they were struggling.
you know we are struggling when we have to go back in time to suggest we could possibly win leagues with our current form.
No the SPFL clubs are afloat because they largely have now paid their debts off and operate on a sustainable basis that has allowed the larger teams like Hibs and Aberdeen to start paying transfer fees again.
 

DoubleWhopper

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Unfortunately in the microcosm that is Glasgow, you can't detach Rangers from what Celtic are doing.

We could end up with, I don't know, 15 more points than we had last season. But if we're still finishing 9 or 10 points behind Celtic, then you'd be hard pushed to call that progress.

Of course the most galling thing is that we've blown it of our own doing. We'd put ourselves in a fantastic position and then surrendered it so meekly. So pathetically.

No amount of stastical spin can dull the fact that we've went from putting our noses infront in the title race to pathetically surrendering it within 6 games. That's astonishing in its ineptitude.
 

Downblu

Active Member
Different times....little relevance.
They don't drop points as they have strength and depth....they r who we have to beat....not teams from last decade
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
And the scum have 10 more.

We need to be keeping pace with them, not past Rangers teams.
Very difficult given their consistency. We have been poor since the break, there's no getting away from that but there's has been a marked improvement this season, a fact that has been lost in the current meltdown, which is just the way it is at our club. There's no middle ground...it's all sugar or all shite.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Unfortunately in the microcosm that is Glasgow, you can't detach Rangers from what Celtic are doing.

We could end up with, I don't know, 15 more points than we had last season. But if we're still finishing 9 or 10 points behind Celtic, then you'd be hard pushed to call that progress.

Of course the most galling thing is that we've blown it of our own doing. We'd put ourselves in a fantastic position and then surrendered it so meekly. So pathetically.

No amount of stastical spin can dull the fact that we've went from putting our noses infront in the title race to pathetically surrendering it within 6 games. That's astonishing in its ineptitude.
Is Gerrard getting critcised here for improving us?

It's starting to feel like he'd have less grief if we were still a bit away from them.

The first stage was to beat them at Ibrox and show we could compete and get ourselves back to at least 2nd last year (given we were third the year before he got the job)

After that, we had to prove we could go one better and beat them at The Piggery and continue our improvement which, when you look at getting through the LC semi, improving our points total and getting through our EL group this year has undoubtably been the case.

The next stage is to continue that and get even closer to them and continue to put pressure on them so that when they do come a cropper we can pounce on that.

It's all part of us getting there whether it happens tomorrow, in May or next year.

We can only continue to improve and we're doing that despite the horrible feeling of the last few dropped points.

Like City last year, even if they do win the league with a record poitns total this season, they won't be able to replicate it forever and as we continue to improve, we will get over the line.
 
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SmileyBear

Well-Known Member
No the SPFL clubs are afloat because they largely have now paid their debts off and operate on a sustainable basis that has allowed the larger teams like Hibs and Aberdeen to start paying transfer fees again.
Can you show me an example of all these club their current debt structures as I'd be very interested to see where you got this information from?
 

Big D

Well-Known Member
The season before Gerrard took over, they won the league with 82 points and won just 24 of their 38 games. They dropped 32 points, compared to just 8 so far this season. It has not therefore, just been a case of coming from a mile back and closing the gap he inherited. He's been expected to close that gap and surpass it by perhaps another 20 points, while being outspent in the transfer market and on wages. Second will never be good enough for Rangers, but a bit of perspective is required.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
Is Gerrard getting critcised here for improving us?

It's starting to feel like he'd have less grief if we were still a bit away from them.

The first stage was to beat them at Ibrox and show we could compete and get ourselves back to at least 2nd last year (given we were third the year before he got the job)

After that, we had to prove we could go one better and beat them at The Piggery and continue our improvement which, when you look at getting through the LC semi, improving our points total and getting through our EL group this year has undoubtably been the case.

The next stage is to continue that and get even closer to them and continue to put pressure on them so that when they do come a cropped we can pounce on that.

It's all part of us getting there whether it happens tomorrow, in May or next year.

We can only continue to improve and we're doing that despite the horrible feeling of the last few dropped points.

Like City last year, even if they do win the league with a record poitns total this season, they won't be able to replicate it forever and as we continue to improve, we will get over the line.
There's no doubting the progress.

I think we could have maybe accepted it to some degree had it just been say the Hearts defeat and the dropped points against Aberdeen, but once you add in Kilmarnock and the fact we've laboured to wins in all the other matches since the break we can see that the recent trend isn't good and there aren't many encouraging signs that it's about to significantly improve.

Given where we were after December 29th, we had every reason to expect that we would push the Yahoos all the way this season.

This sudden collapse has caught us all by surprise and is a real concern.

What is he going to do about it?

Commeth the hour, commeth the man.
 

DoubleWhopper

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Is Gerrard getting critcised here for improving us?

It's starting to feel like he'd have less grief if we were still a bit away from them.

The first stage was to beat them at Ibrox and show we could compete and get ourselves back to at least 2nd last year (given we were third the year before he got the job)

After that, we had to prove we could go one better and beat them at The Piggery and continue our improvement which, when you look at getting through the LC semi, improving our points total and getting through our EL group this year has undoubtably been the case.

The next stage is to continue that and get even closer to them and continue to put pressure on them so that when they do come a cropped we can pounce on that.

It's all part of us getting there whether it happens tomorrow, in May or next year.

We can only continue to improve and we're doing that despite the horrible feeling of the last few dropped points.

Like City last year, even if they do win the league with a record poitns total this season, they won't be able to replicate it forever and as we continue to improve, we will get over the line.
He may well have got less grief if we were still a bit further away from them. Because then it would look like we were on a natural, logical path of progress.

But what we've had is a team that looked like it could win the title utterly collapse. Cave in. Disintegrate. Capitulate. And nobody knows why, least of all our manager. The anger stems from that - we contrived to gift wrap Celtic the title within a handful of games of going and beating them in their own midden.

Nobody is capable of explaining it, rationalising it. The only rational thing we can deduce from it is that we've done exactly what we did last January/February, so the blame must surely lie with the football management side of things.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
He may well have got less grief if we were still a bit further away from them. Because then it would look like we were on a natural, logical path of progress.

But what we've had is a team that looked like it could win the title utterly collapse. Cave in. Disintegrate. Capitulate. And nobody knows why, least of all our manager. The anger stems from that - we contrived to gift wrap Celtic the title within a handful of games of going and beating them in their own midden.

Nobody is capable of explaining it, rationalising it. The only rational thing we can deduce from it is that we've done exactly what we did last January/February, so the blame must surely lie with the football management side of things.
Or maybe the players just aren't quite good enough yet.

There may be no magic wand that does what is required during the break and it's simply that we need better player to add to the improvement in the squad we've seen.

It's a blip as things stand at the moment and just because we had a bad results in January last year doesn't confirm there's blame more than us "not being good enough" yet.
 

Turrabear

Well-Known Member
That's all well and good but the fact is we might have had less points but we went on to win the league .can you honestly see it happening.
 

bluetonic

Well-Known Member
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
If anyone had folded it has been us two seasons in a row
 

the dug

Well-Known Member
Means not a thing without the status of the other teams competing at the same point.

we are 10 points behind the league leaders at this stage in the 2019/20 season.
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
Is that stat meant to make us happy?
I think it's supposed to illustrate the path of improvement that we are on.

Season 2017/18 we finished 3rd on 70 points.
Out of Europe at the first hurdle in early July.
Out of League Cup and Scottish Cup in Semis.
Beaten by tims 4 times, losing 14 goals, and one 0-0.

Season 2018/19 we finished 2nd on 78 points.
Out of Europa League at group stage. We were still in it on Matchday 6.
Out of league cup in semis, out of scottish cup in quarters.
Beaten by tims twice but also beat them twice.

It's not a huge improvement there but it is better.

This season we are on 60 points so far with 25 games played. 9 better than last year.
Still in Europa League with a decent chance of last 16, but we'll see how it goes.
Narrowly beaten in League cup final. Still in Scottish cup.
Tims have beaten us twice and we have won at Parkhead.

Again there is a sense of improvement and I think most would agree that performances on the park were better until the winter break where we seem to have lost our form.

I think, all things considered, the best we can hope for at the moment is to see improvement each season. Ultimately resulting in a massive league win and a chance to get into Champions League in the near future.

I think it's possible to be both disappointed with recent results and also happy that we are looking better and better each year and not relying on Graeme Murty to come in halfway through the season after the manager leaves.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
Can you show me an example of all these club their current debt structures as I'd be very interested to see where you got this information from?






 
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thetoptier

Well-Known Member
we've won less than 50% of our games against aberdeen and kilmarnock in the last 2 seasons

oh look someone turd polishing
 

SmileyBear

Well-Known Member






Informative post I honestly did not know that these clubs had cleared their debt and were in such a good place given the size of their fanbase.
 

TPP

Well-Known Member
3 more wins, a cup final appearence and yet more progression in Europe including wins AND remaining unbeaten against Feyenoord and Porto over 4 games.

Last three weeks doesn't alter that fact. It's been a horrible 3 weeks but I'm not going to sit here and kid myself that we're not learning anything as a team.

We've scored more goals, conceded less goals, gained more points.
Europe has been nothing short of outstanding. Gerrard has gone way way above the bar in expectations.

problem is he plays killie and hearts as if we are playing Porto every week. Earlier in the season Alfie was so often the difference. If he doesn’t play or is on form The effect is striking more than can be reasonably expected.

we are so passive and withdrawn it’s horrific to watch at times. Some of the most aimless football I’ve watched in the top flight. I said the other day it’s reminiscent of when MacLeish lost the plot through the season and went 4-2-4.
 

Arkanoid

Well-Known Member
Be nice to see what the title winning teams went on to achieve in their final 12 games?
At present you could hazard a guess at the number of points we are still to drop.
Lies, damn lies and statistics
 
Which opposition have got significantly poorer ?

Celtic have 10 more points
St Mirren have 10 more points
Livingston have 6 more points
Motherwell have 8 more points
Hamilton have 1 more point

Hibs are a point worse. Aberdeen are 8 worse off. Hearts are 25 points worse off.
Frustration with that stat is that we’re dropping points to the teams that have got worse.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
In one of Walter's 3 in a row seasons we didn't win at either Tynecastle or Pittodrie in the same season.

We also drew 3 games in a row 0-0.

These things happen
In Walter's first spell, we only beat Airdrie once in four attempts the year they were relegated.

Hibs and both Dundee clubs regularly took points off us.

There's a particular arrogance among some of our support who will write off every spl team not called celtic as dross, and bizarrely do the same to other European teams outwith the top tier ones. Young Boys? Dross. Spartak? They were dross too. So we're Rapid. Villarreal were OK, feyenoord and porto were fine. Everyone else though? Shite, dross etc.

The problem with doing that is that when you beat any of these teams, be it domestic or European, it means nothing, cause they're shite. If they get points off you, you've just dropped points to shite, thus the circle of seethe sustains itself.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
They are miles ahead of the rest, including us, in every single area, department . Be it development, scouting, PR, whatever!
I bought into what I was told, they'll fold like a pack of cards, etc, etc! Well they haven't, we have.
I'm angry and I'm hurting. Unfortunately it appears that those who can change what has become the status quo aren't.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics!
Who told you that, and what was the context?
 

BlueDel

Well-Known Member
How strong are the other teams in comparison from then and now?

Find these kind of stats pretty pointless as we have dropped five points to the team bottom of the league ffs.
I saw this tweet earlier and I have to say it struck me as completely irrelevant. We don't need to go back ten years. We don't need to go back 1 year. We don't need to go back 6 months.

If we go back to the last few minutes of the scum game on 29th December, we were 2 points behind with a game in hand. Since then we have had self inflicted bans, players looking half fit and devoid of ideas, players picking up injuries, players contributing little to nothing, missed chances, points thrown away, struggling to beat stranrear, St Mirren and County and absolutely fkd it against Hearts, Aberdeen and Killie.

If we had avoided our own gongshow, it would still be in our hands. Looking back further than late 2019 is somewhat missing the point.
 

chickenhawk

Well-Known Member
Teams back then were more competitive against us and them this is not the case now, the standard of player in Scotland now is very poor.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Unfortunately in the microcosm that is Glasgow, you can't detach Rangers from what Celtic are doing.

We could end up with, I don't know, 15 more points than we had last season. But if we're still finishing 9 or 10 points behind Celtic, then you'd be hard pushed to call that progress.

Of course the most galling thing is that we've blown it of our own doing. We'd put ourselves in a fantastic position and then surrendered it so meekly. So pathetically.

No amount of stastical spin can dull the fact that we've went from putting our noses infront in the title race to pathetically surrendering it within 6 games. That's astonishing in its ineptitude.
I would call it progress as they wont be able to sustain that long term, they will have a dip
their best players will leave and they have to replace them.
We have to maintain and better our points tally year on year if possible.
 

KirkieRanger

Well-Known Member
Teams back then were more competitive against us and them this is not the case now, the standard of player in Scotland now is very poor.
Sorry to disagree mate buy I think that with the increase in the hatred of us that clubs are treating every game against us as a cup final. How often have we seen a team play out of their skins against us only to get cuffed the following week and go back to their previous mediocre form.

W.A.T.P.
 

bar72bear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
What we are seeing is that a stronger rangers is pushing Celtic on . They had rubbish totals at times over the last few years as they could afford to coast to the title. Now they are having to go all out to stay ahead
 

DoubleWhopper

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I would call it progress as they wont be able to sustain that long term, they will have a dip
their best players will leave and they have to replace them.
We have to maintain and better our points tally year on year if possible.
You make it sound so gloriously simple.

Celtic's best players will leave. (Presumably you also think we keep all ours) and we topple them sooner or later.

But what if their new players are better than ours?
 
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