Rangers v Kilmarnock - Match Thread

We need to stop giving cheap goals away. Tonight's effort by Worral and Flanagan was a shocker. When we are struggling to make and convert chances a clean sheet goes a long way.

Having said that Goldson and Arfield both missed absolute sitters to win the match.
 
AmsterdamBear said:
He said he doesn’t see what he offers.

Had he said he had a poor game, fair enough. To not see what the lad offers is absolutely mental.
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As of today, Middleton isn’t a first team player. Based on that I don’t see what he offers.

Will he be a first team player who offers the team another dimension in future? Maybe. Hopefully.

He came in and did well early on but it seems that the experienced players he’s coming up against now have seen how he plays and are just nullifying him, getting tight and closing down his space and taking him out of the game.

Most other might not agree. That’s fine. The game is about opinions. It’s not intended to be a character assassination of the lad.
 
Jimmy the Gent said:
Are you honestly saying we never blew teams
Out the water with the those players mentioned?

Seriously?

Teams that won trebles, went on long unbeaten runs, won games 5,6,7 nil etc?
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From Souness to McLeish
86/87 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
87/88 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
88/89 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
89/90 played 36 scored 48 (1.33/game)
90/91 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
91/92 played 44 scored 101 (2.30/game)
92/93 played 44 scored 97 (2.20/game)
93/94 played 44 scored 74 (1.68/game)
94/95 played 36 scored 60 (1.67/game)
95/96 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
96/97 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
97/98 played 36 scored 76 (2.11/game)
98/99 played 36 scored 78 (2.12/game)
99/00 played 36 scored 96 (2.67/game)
00/01 played 38 scored 76 (2.00/game)
01/02 played 38 scored 82 (2.16/game)

Average of 2.01 goals per game over those 16 seasons.

We're currently Played 10 scored 23, which is average of 2.3 goals per game
 
So, my thoughts after that....

We still have the components we need to win this league. And I still believe we can do it. However we seem to have lost our way and the manager needs to work out quickly how to put them back in the right order before our window of opportunity is lost. He needs to go back and look at what was working for the first couple of months and get back to that. What's happened to the high press, for example? Why was Katic punted out of the team for no obvious reason (yes, I saw the Hamilton game but that doesn't explain why he was dropped for Worral in the first instance). And if the funds are there we desperately need a midfielder who can open up defences (and there's more than one way to do that) and another goalscorer. The rest of that squad should be good enough to win this league. But he needs to send them out in the right combinations and they need to get their heads right. Pronto.
 
Thewandofpedro said:
As of today, Middleton isn’t a first team player. Based on that I don’t see what he offers.

Will he be a first team player who offers the team another dimension in future? Maybe. Hopefully.

He came in and did well early on but it seems that the experienced players he’s coming up against now have seen how he plays and are just nullifying him, getting tight and closing down his space and taking him out of the game.

Most other might not agree. That’s fine. The game is about opinions. It’s not intended to be a character assassination of the lad.
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So based on tonight's substitute appearance he is no longer a first team player? All the good work he's done previously is forgotten because he never did anything when he came on?

If that's the case, several other first team players will never play for us again.
 
TinyRick said:
From Souness to McLeish
86/87 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
87/88 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
88/89 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
89/90 played 36 scored 48 (1.33/game)
90/91 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
91/92 played 44 scored 101 (2.30/game)
92/93 played 44 scored 97 (2.20/game)
93/94 played 44 scored 74 (1.68/game)
94/95 played 36 scored 60 (1.67/game)
95/96 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
96/97 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
97/98 played 36 scored 76 (2.11/game)
98/99 played 36 scored 78 (2.12/game)
99/00 played 36 scored 96 (2.67/game)
00/01 played 38 scored 76 (2.00/game)
01/02 played 38 scored 82 (2.16/game)

Average of 2.01 goals per game over those 16 seasons.

We're currently Played 10 scored 23, which is average of 2.3 goals per game
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Ffsake .... can you not dig up some negative stats so the narrative of doom and gloom can be maintained by the hysterical surrender monkeys on here. :D
 
Inverhouse said:
No being realistic and honest .
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I think we have hit a dip in form mate.
The manager will have his work cut out to get us back on track.
But I am sure he can do this.
Teams hit dips and considering the strain we have been under with a great run in Europe, I suppose it was always going to happen.
I am sure we will come through it.
 
Middleton is just Gregg Wylde II.

Left foot and pace but no skill, guile or trickery.

He's just a young lad. No idea why he came on rather than Grezda tbh.

Scunnered.
 
TinyRick said:
From Souness to McLeish
86/87 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
87/88 Played 44 scored 85 (1.93/game)
88/89 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
89/90 played 36 scored 48 (1.33/game)
90/91 played 36 scored 62 (1.72/game)
91/92 played 44 scored 101 (2.30/game)
92/93 played 44 scored 97 (2.20/game)
93/94 played 44 scored 74 (1.68/game)
94/95 played 36 scored 60 (1.67/game)
95/96 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
96/97 played 36 scored 85 (2.36/game)
97/98 played 36 scored 76 (2.11/game)
98/99 played 36 scored 78 (2.12/game)
99/00 played 36 scored 96 (2.67/game)
00/01 played 38 scored 76 (2.00/game)
01/02 played 38 scored 82 (2.16/game)

Average of 2.01 goals per game over those 16 seasons.

We're currently Played 10 scored 23, which is average of 2.3 goals per game
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Those stats mean little, you said we 'rarely' blew teams out the water, that statement is a obviously a complete fabrication, we blew teams out the water on a regular basis.
 
jonesy8 said:
Too many of us believed the Hype with our performances in Europe, the painful truth is domestically there is no improvement. We are nowhere near good enough at the moment to mount a challenge for trophies proved by the last two results, big performance needed tonight after Sunday, and what did we get?? Another spineless pathetic one. Shambles.
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I don't necessarily think the performance was spineless but I don't believe it was good enough either. From my perspective we see Ryan Kent being really busy mid to last third and because of that we tend to feed him the ball in the hope that he makes something happen. Unfortunately in the Euro tourney that might work, it didn't against a stuffy Spartak, but will in 90% of others. IMO he's busy but loses the ball too often. Yeah he's fearless and wants it a lot but he lacks composure and ingenuity when up against a brick wall. I'm not blaming him solely for our lack of results but if he's not firing in there then very little happens. If he wasn't in the team then it would need to look for another solution other than giving him the ball in whatever position and hoping he can do something with it.

From my perspective the tactics are OK however the execution of it with a player like Kent in the team allows players to hide behind him.
 
The laboured passing and movement could be down to a lack of confidence. Everyone feels they need a second touch, passes not coming off, nobody wants to take the risk to try something effective
 
TinyRick said:
What is your definition of blowing teams out the water?
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Ok you have brought up facts and figures from seasons stretching back decades.

Under Souness we beat Celtic 3 times in 1 season, including 5-1 and 4-1 victories?

We regularly destroyed sides 4 times a season under Smith and Advocaat.
 
bilkobear said:
I think we have hit a dip in form mate.
The manager will have his work cut out to get us back on track.
But I am sure he can do this.
Teams hit dips and considering the strain we have been under with a great run in Europe, I suppose it was always going to happen.
I am sure we will come through it.
Click to expand...
I hope you are correct.
 
Conceded

From Souness to McLeish
86/87 Played 44 conceded 23 (0.52game)
87/88 Played 44 conceded 34 (0.77/game)
88/89 played 36 conceded 26 (0.72/game)
89/90 played 36 conceded 19 (0.53/game)
90/91 played 36 conceded 23 (0.64/game)
91/92 played 44 conceded 31 (0.70/game)
92/93 played 44 conceded 35 (0.80/game)
93/94 played 44 conceded 41 (0.93/ame)
94/95 played 36 conceded 35 (0.97/game)
95/96 played 36 conceded 25 (0.69/game)
96/97 played 36 conceded 33 (0.92/game)
97/98 played 36 conceded 38 (1.05/game)
98/99 played 36 conceded 31 (0.86/game)
99/00 played 36 conceded 28 (0.78/game)
00/01 played 38 conceded 36 (0.95/game)
01/02 played 38 conceded 27 (0.71/game)

Average: 0.78/game

This season: Played 10, conceded 10

So right now, we're above average on both goals scored and goals conceded
 
Jimmy the Gent said:
Ok you have brought up facts and figures from seasons stretching back decades.

Under Souness we beat Celtic 3 times in 1 season, including 5-1 and 4-1 victories?

We regularly destroyed sides 4 times a season under Smith and Advocaat.
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What sides did we destroy 4 times a season?

I brought up numbers going back decades because you peddled the 'we spent more, we should be blowing teams out the water' line. I was pointing out how that is factually incorrect.

Souness (league) :
86/87 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1
87/88 Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1
88/89 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 0
89/90 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 0 Drew 1
90/91 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1

Total Played 20 Won 10 Lost 6 Drew 4

Gerrard has faced them once.

After 10 games under Souness, we had drawn 1 and lost 3 in the league.

After 10 games under Gerrard, we have drawn 3 and lost 2.
 
TinyRick said:
What sides did we destroy 4 times a season?

I brought up numbers going back decades because you peddled the 'we spent more, we should be blowing teams out the water' line. I was pointing out how that is factually incorrect.

Souness (league) :
86/87 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1
87/88 Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1
88/89 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 0
89/90 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 0 Drew 1
90/91 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1

Total Played 20 Won 10 Lost 6 Drew 4

Gerrard has faced them once.

After 10 games under Souness, we had drawn 1 and lost 3 in the league.

After 10 games under Gerrard, we have drawn 3 and lost 2.
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The thing that’s killing us is the 3pts for a win and 1pt for a draw.Under Souness a draw didn’t really kill us.Draws kill us now but I get you’re point.
 
Bigcol said:
The thing that’s killing us is the 3pts for a win and 1pt for a draw.Under Souness a draw didn’t really kill us.Draws kill us now but I get you’re point.
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It really is, however if we win our next game then we're in exactly the same situation that Advocaat had after 11 games in his first year (Played 11,Won 6, Lost 2, Drew 3).

He started with a loss, won 3, drew 3, won 3, then lost.

The other thing that seems to be killing us is the international breaks.
 
TinyRick said:
What sides did we destroy 4 times a season?

I brought up numbers going back decades because you peddled the 'we spent more, we should be blowing teams out the water' line. I was pointing out how that is factually incorrect.

Souness (league) :
86/87 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1
87/88 Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1
88/89 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 0
89/90 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 0 Drew 1
90/91 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1

Total Played 20 Won 10 Lost 6 Drew 4

Gerrard has faced them once.

After 10 games under Souness, we had drawn 1 and lost 3 in the league.

After 10 games under Gerrard, we have drawn 3 and lost 2.
Click to expand...

Ok tell me what is factually incorrect?
 
I don't also understand all the talk from SG about bringing players in who will if others don't.. Why would they be concerned when most of them are on 3 and 4yr contracts on very good money.Always win win for players and also players who get managers sacked.

I'm also pissed off listening to all the shite from players giving an apology for their performance and sorry to the support... Do your talking on the pitch and you won't have to say sorry to anyone.
 
TinyRick said:
What sides did we destroy 4 times a season?

I brought up numbers going back decades because you peddled the 'we spent more, we should be blowing teams out the water' line. I was pointing out how that is factually incorrect.

Souness (league) :
86/87 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1
87/88 Played 4 Won 0 Lost 3 Drew 1
88/89 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 1 Drew 0
89/90 Played 4 Won 3 Lost 0 Drew 1
90/91 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Drew 1

Total Played 20 Won 10 Lost 6 Drew 4

Gerrard has faced them once.

After 10 games under Souness, we had drawn 1 and lost 3 in the league.

After 10 games under Gerrard, we have drawn 3 and lost 2.
Click to expand...

Factually incorrect?

I genuinely couldn’t be arsed with your bullshit posts

I had a quick look on wiki, Advocaats 2nd season , we pumped Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, 11 games out of 12 won, 1 draw, we destroyed other teams 3 times out of 4, scoring 4,5,6,7 on numerous occasions.
 
Gibraltar Loyal said:
Aye undefeated in 11 euro games against some opposition better than what we face week in weekout is papering over cracks....if we wonit but finished 2nd in league you probably wouldnt be happy
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That's what makes it all the more frustrating for me. We're taking points and results off teams in Europe every time we play, that are on a par with or better than shellik, the killies and Livingstons should be our bread and butter yet we're playing as if we're up against Barcelona.
 
jonesy8 said:
Too many of us believed the Hype with our performances in Europe, the painful truth is domestically there is no improvement. We are nowhere near good enough at the moment to mount a challenge for trophies proved by the last two results, big performance needed tonight after Sunday, and what did we get?? Another spineless pathetic one. Shambles.
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I awoke this morning to this shocker of a result. This is the reality we need to accept yet again - we simply won’t be winning the league this year. No improvement domestically seems absolutely incredible to me given the start we had with the European games - but that is what’s happened. It can’t be long until the anniversary of Murty nearly crying at Dundee and we’re looking like being in the same shape then as now.
 
Gibraltar Loyal said:
Aye undefeated in 11 euro games against some opposition better than what we face week in weekout is papering over cracks....if we wonit but finished 2nd in league you probably wouldnt be happy
Click to expand...
So why can't we beat the utter pish we play week in week out in domestic competition? We aren't getting near winning the Europa League.
 
TheStandardBearer said:
You’re the one using the rain as a way to glorify how good we are as a support. Genuinely embarrassing.
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I'm not the one partly blaming the fans for a defeat,your doing a good job of that on your own, to try and brush off the fact there were over 49,000 on a night pishing of rain and accusing me of trying to glorify it is pretty bizzare,not many teams could brag of such an attendance in such poor weather conditions on a cold night also for a midweek game.

Doesn't matter if it was raining,snowing or the sun splitting the sky's,people made the effort and spent good money to go and support the team,trying to blame the fans for not singing more or loud enough as an excuse for dropping points is pretty odd,the game is won on the pitch not in the stands and the players are the reason for dropping points,not the fans.
 
Cutty/Young said:
I'm not the one partly blaming the fans for a defeat,your doing a good job of that on your own, to try and brush off the fact there were over 49,000 on a night pishing of rain and accusing me of trying to glorify it is pretty bizzare,not many teams could brag of such an attendance in such poor weather conditions on a cold night also for a midweek game.

Doesn't matter if it was raining,snowing or the sun splitting the sky's,people made the effort and spent good money to go and support the team,trying to blame the fans for not singing more or loud enough as an excuse for dropping points is pretty odd,the game is won on the pitch not in the stands and the players are the reason for dropping points,not the fans.
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So much bullshit in the one post.

What happens on the stands has an effect on the players please refer to various professional footballers to see this as a fact.

At no point did I refer to the attendance so for you to continually bring that up is bizarre.

Again you’ve used the rain as a reason to glorify how good our support is.

Please do your best to distinguish between attendance and actual support before replying.
 
Jimmy the Gent said:
Ok tell me what is factually incorrect?
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If you go right back to the start, I pointed out that when we had genuinely world class players we weren't blowing teams out the water. That's where you're being factually incorrect. I've then used the actual numbers from each season to show that too.

You still haven't defined what criteria you use for your very subjective description.
 
Jimmy the Gent said:
Factually incorrect?

I genuinely couldn’t be arsed with your bullshit posts

I had a quick look on wiki, Advocaats 2nd season , we pumped Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, 11 games out of 12 won, 1 draw, we destroyed other teams 3 times out of 4, scoring 4,5,6,7 on numerous occasions.
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Why Advocaat's 2nd season and not the first or 3rd?

Oh wait, cause it doesn't give you the skewed data.

And don't think it hasn't been noticed that you keep trying to change the argument to something that suits your point. That's called a strawman. You mentioned Souness' record v that lot, I gave you the complete data, now you're on to a random Advocaat season.

Finally, it's clear that this has irked you, no need to attempt to make it personal. If you can't debate like a grown up online then may i suggest that you don't try it in the pub either.
 
Tough night last night, Killie did what Killie do, spoil, slow down play and frustrate the opposition at every opportunity and try and hit on the break. Totally agree with SG that we were far too slow in possession. Games like that are not suited to Jon Flanagan as he offers zero going forward, he should only be used in the away European game scenario. Too many side to side passes, lost count of the number of times Goldson passed to Worrall who passed back to Goldson. Think a tweak in formation and personnel is required, hopefully SG and his backroom team will solve the puzzle quickly. Keep Believing lads. Onwards and upwards. #LetsGo
 
We have to face reality. It is not going too well on the League front. Don't get me wrong, it is night and day difference to previous years. The start SG has made has brought a smile to our faces. The Europa League run is nothing short of a miracle, but on the home front we have to think again on changing tactics to suit the opposition. I half expected Killie to come away from Ibrox with all 3 points by doing what Aberdeen did to us at the weekend. Sit tight and hope for the best and gather up the scraps that we give them. Our only hope is to keep doing well in Europe and that re-kindles our energy on the League front, but we definately need to go on a run.
 
TinyRick said:
Why Advocaat's 2nd season and not the first or 3rd?

Oh wait, cause it doesn't give you the skewed data.

And don't think it hasn't been noticed that you keep trying to change the argument to something that suits your point. That's called a strawman. You mentioned Souness' record v that lot, I gave you the complete data, now you're on to a random Advocaat season.

Finally, it's clear that this has irked you, no need to attempt to make it personal. If you can't debate like a grown up online then may i suggest that you don't try it in the pub either.
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You asked when have we ever blew teams out the water? YOU mentioned world class players going way back, I have given you examples of us blowing teams out the water, but that doesn’t fit your agenda so you pick holes in that argument and ask why not mention another season?:D

As for the patronising line about debating like grown ups

Go f.uck yourself ;)
 
Amato Turn said:
Middleton is just Gregg Wylde II.

Left foot and pace but no skill, guile or trickery.

He's just a young lad. No idea why he came on rather than Grezda tbh.

Scunnered.
Click to expand...

Im assuming you read the original person on this saying it and thought you would copy it.

Shows how much of a hysterical drama queen you and your ilk are turning on an 18 year old
 
some folk on this forum just straight up need to stop supporting the team, if you can't support or have faith through a dip in form after an ASTOUNDING start to the season then gtf cause you're a glory hunting embarrassment
 
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