The Manager

Hes soft as shite imagine coming from Gerrard absolutely grilling you if you didn't pull your weight to Gio..
 
You don’t have to necessarily lose the dressing room to see a downturn in results - I think the phrase “lost the dressing room” is overly dramatic.

What you do need though is players to believe in the process and believe in what the coaches are telling you.

The players believed Steven Gerrard and his management team, then it slipped towards the end. Ive heard this is because Gerrard’s interest dropped slightly, but this is unconfirmed.

What we needed was someone to come in and energise the team and put that fire back in their belly.

On the whole this hasn’t happened under GvB but I feel we need to give him the chance to build his team. I understand there are many fans who don’t want to give him time though, so he’s well and truly up against it.
 
He's never had it. Maybe Alfie with the language benefit. The rest are Gerrard fanboys. Him leaving broke many wee hearts imo. That's why the squad needs, and will be gutted. En masse.
 
Alfie_WATP said:
This has the Caixinha sacking written all over it.

Let Gio stumble into 22/23 and sack him when the title is over when the shops start putting the Christmas decorations out.
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Which only puts us even further behind. I genuinely dread to see the garbage we sign in the summer. GvB isn’t going to change his ways. It’s dull, predictable, turgid, unsuccessful football for the foreseeable.

Even his backroom staff just look so far out their depth. What are Vos and Makaay bringing to the table - nothing by the looks of it. Tactically inept.
 
The Lone Sniper said:
What if he wouldn't accept a one year deal?
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Due to the fact that you have to "Honour" these long term deals, resulting in massive payouts, for FAILURE etc, the imposition of a Worldwide Rule, that "1 Year Deals" are the maximum that can be awarded to ALL, employed in the Sport, would not be, a bad thing.
 
Echo_1 said:
When Gio first came in we hit the ground running partly due to the 'new manager bounce', I guess.

Fast forward 5 months and realistically the wheels have came off the season and we've went from a strength of position to a real chance of finishing with nothing to show for it. We may not win any silverware this year.

Some of our best players have dropped off a cliff form-wise, gradually, since Gio came in... Aribo & Kent.

Some of the names that were guaranteed game time pre-Gio, like Barasic, Davis, Kamara etc aren't getting the minutes they used to.

Boys brought in to play but aren't playing... Diallo, Itten, Sands.

Boys not getting a start but watching Aribo contribute nothing week in, week out.. Lowry, Diallo, Sakala, Kamara..

This isn't a question of "is the manager right?", that's another argument. My point is, has Gio bombed too many players out and upset the dressing room? I feel like he's lost the players already. Something isn't right and going by Gio's XI every week it's clear half the squad aren't getting a look in. He's been too quick to throw some to the sidelines, he isn't using his squad and his squad aren't using him.
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FFS, we're still in with a chance to win the Europa League and the Scottish Cup. May well need to be revisited post April, but for now there is still plenty to play for. We will be hailing GVB as a saint if he brings us European glory. We're on a downturn in form, yes. The dressing room isn't lost though.
 
Bobans27 said:
Some of these players were starting to go off the boil under Gerrard.

The malaise set in with the previous manager post Malmo.
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You can’t blame anything van bronckhorst has done on Gerrard
The same thing is mentioned any time people try to give Gerrard any praise for where we are in Europe, this is all van bronckhorst
he’s had 7 months now
 
DylanGer said:
I think you are spot on with how he's managed the squad. He's completely isolated players whom might have done a job as a sub and overall he's ran players into the ground. Yesterday we had three attacking players-one of them was unlikely to come on and the other was Arfield. We had a centre forward and a winger who whilst not at the required standard might just have given us something who weren't even in the squad.

Also Kamara whom I never rated as highly as some has been treated quite shabbily when he has been a big component of our build to 55. You can only guess what the players make of it.
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This for me, is exactly what's happened. When you look at the majority of players he's bombed out of the squad you can argue that Gio has a point in terms of "are they good enough for us?"

But in doing so he's alienated a large amount of our squad in a very short space of time.
 
Gerrard said a few players were unhappy they didn't get moves they wanted in the Summer. These players are still here and will still be wanting a move. Their minds will be elsewhere.

Given Barisic comments in August about a move away and his dire performances since, he's definitely one of them and has rightly lost his place in the team.
 
Echo_1 said:
This for me, is exactly what's happened. When you look at the majority of players he's bombed out of the squad you can argue that Gio has a point in terms of "are they good enough for us?"

But in doing so he's alienated a large amount of our squad in a very short space of time.
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What I also think is interesting is they seem to be players with good attitudes and that makes it even odder.
Considering we might require to go for it yesterday-the bench was far too negative.
 
Ter said:
Gerrard said a few players were unhappy they didn't get moves they wanted in the Summer. These players are still here and will still be wanting a move. Their minds will be elsewhere.

Given Barisic comments in August about a move away and his dire performances since, he's definitely one of them and has rightly lost his place in the team.
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There's a difference between doing that and not rotating the players though. Our bench yesterday was far too negative with effectively one attacking player who was ever likely to come on.
 
I don’t see us beating them at Hampden and if that’s the case, you can see another hiding in the last Old Firm of the season. It could get nasty.
 
DylanGer said:
I think you are spot on with how he's managed the squad. He's completely isolated players whom might have done a job as a sub and overall he's ran players into the ground. Yesterday we had three attacking players-one of them was unlikely to come on and the other was Arfield. We had a centre forward and a winger who whilst not at the required standard might just have given us something who weren't even in the squad.

Also Kamara whom I never rated as highly as some has been treated quite shabbily when he has been a big component of our build to 55. You can only guess what the players make of it.
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Kamara is an odd one for sure. Even early season he looked a bit out of sorts (he wasn't alone) but given the way last season ended for him and being away at the Euros I didn't think that was unusual.

GVB came in and he looked like he had a new lease of life playing what is now the Lundstram role (deep lying midfielder but dropping into the defence and making play from there when we are playing a packed defence), then he was out the team for an extended period, then he was back in playing almost as a #10 and now he's out the team again.

For a guy who we were clearly keen to tie down to a new contract as recently as September last year to presumably protect his transfer value it's been a very odd season. Almost like GVB has no idea what to do with him in a tactical sense.
 
Stuman said:
Absolutely - hiring a top manager is tricky full stop.

Gio isn’t that though, and that’s why for me we shouldn’t have put a lengthy deal on the table.

Worst case scenario, which is sadly a real possibility, we go out of Europe and the Scottish cup in the next couple of weeks. If that was to happen, a massive chunk of our support would turn on him.
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I agree, he's now facing down the barrel. Odds-on defeats in Europe and twice to Celtic, he's a goner.
 
I put this in another thread, but think its worthwhile here too.

21/22 Season before yesterday:

Gerrard - 2.30 Points per Game
Gio - 2.39 Points per Game

After yesterday the numbers are pretty much the same (Gerrard had 1 OF game, Gio 2) . We're no better or worse now than we were under Gerrard, the only difference is that Celtic have got better. For me that points to the squad, not the manager. If Gerrard had been here we would have been in the exact same situation based on his results.

I don't disagree that Gio deserves criticism, but the criticism that he has made the team worse and "This wouldn't happen under Gerrard" is not true.

When you're winning you need to invest in and freshen up the squad, we didn't do that, that's why we're in the mess that we are now.
 
Mdiz said:
We can go on about the manager all we want, but the truth is that these players have bottled it. Without Morelos, I didnt feel confident we'd score an equaliser, never mind a winner. Can talk about tactics all you want, but we had ample opportunity to hit their goal and it was squandered by individual errors and mistakes.

His subbing of Ramsey and Jack was necessary. Jack was having a shocker and about 5 mins for getting a straight red, and Ramsey doesn't have the legs. Class player, evidently the best on the field, but he's two yards off the pace.

People on here can talk about tactics and the manager all day long, but today we set out with intensity, then our players bottled it. We didn't have enough quality in final third at all, and as such it never looked likely we'd get level.

Jury is out on Gio, btw. I'm not sat there thinking he's played a blinder since he's come in. But my contention is that this bunch of players can't hack pressure and go missing.

Also, think we need to stop this 'celtic are gash' chat. They're not the world beaters their bead rattlers would have you believe, but they were organised and effective there.
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This summarises where I am.
 
DylanGer said:
I'm not so sure.

There is always a big area that the punters don't see and that's behind the scenes-the relationship between the manager and the squad and of course how the Board see him in overall terms. If that's not right then he might be toast.

Goldson's words were completely taken out of context but the fans absolutely love a bonfire with the players. Goldson was wanted out the club and out the team and yet all things being equal he's been largely excellent this season.

There is a lot of anger directed towards the players generally-we are that type of club-we bounce to extremes but it is what it is nobody can even remotely say they haven't had a series of personal and collective disasters.

But fundamentally management isn't just about bringing in your own players -it's about a whole raft of things-Gio looks out of his depth and his personality is like it or lump it another negative factor. Can we afford to allow him to rebuild? I'm far from sure.
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I’m certainly not sure he can be trusted with a rebuild (a big part being that I’m not convinced by Wilson either) but I don’t really see anything to suggest behind the scenes issues and usually there’s at least some hint of unrest/discomfort that comes across in interviews, etc.

That’s not conclusive proof of anything by any stretch, but I just can’t see the board axing him this quickly when he’s had no chance to put his own team out there yet.

If they do stick with him, then I think failing to allow him to overhaul the squad to his liking would be a monumental screw up on their part and would be utterly counterproductive.

As for Goldson, yes there was some daft hysteria around his remarks back then, but even the most level-headed of us could see it as an insight to where the squad mentality was at the time.

GVB actually came in and initially settled us, particularly on a defensive note. But that has all the signs of a new manager bounce given what we’ve witnessed in the longer term since.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
Which only puts us even further behind. I genuinely dread to see the garbage we sign in the summer. GvB isn’t going to change his ways. It’s dull, predictable, turgid, unsuccessful football for the foreseeable.

Even his backroom staff just look so far out their depth. What are Vos and Makaay bringing to the table - nothing by the looks of it. Tactically inept.
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The alarm bells perhaps should have been ringing back in January Roy Makaay was interviewed on RTV prior to the Aberdeen game he said that finally they had, had time (the winter break) to work with the squad and get the team playing their way, presumably go 1-0 up and try and shut up shop the rest of is history
 
bluetonic said:
Hearts and Dortmund away ?
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As I said Domestically he has been rubbish. Dortmund away was obviously amazing but Hearts away we were lucky not to concede about 4 goals. Hibs the week or so after was a dreadful performance alongwith Aberdeen away a few weeks later again.
 
bar72bear said:
As I said Domestically he has been rubbish. Dortmund away was obviously amazing but Hearts away we were lucky not to concede about 4 goals. Hibs the week or so after was a dreadful performance alongwith Aberdeen away a few weeks later again.
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True, it was not in defence of GVB as its the only two I can think of
 
I have no idea what is going on in his head but i do know that yesterday he took off our 2 most effective players (other than Lundstram) and then didn't make another offensive change despite losing 2-1 at home in a must win game.

When you hear his press conference the arrogant disdain he showed when asked about his subs or lack of was fucking idiotic.
 
Somemightsay said:
I put this in another thread, but think its worthwhile here too.

21/22 Season before yesterday:

Gerrard - 2.30 Points per Game
Gio - 2.39 Points per Game

After yesterday the numbers are pretty much the same (Gerrard had 1 OF game, Gio 2) . We're no better or worse now than we were under Gerrard, the only difference is that Celtic have got better. For me that points to the squad, not the manager. If Gerrard had been here we would have been in the exact same situation based on his results.

I don't disagree that Gio deserves criticism, but the criticism that he has made the team worse and "This wouldn't happen under Gerrard" is not true.

When you're winning you need to invest in and freshen up the squad, we didn't do that, that's why we're in the mess that we are now.
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When you read this type of thinking you wonder why we have a manager at all?

The team has got noticeably worse in footballing terms and clearly we have went from having a style to no style at all.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
I’m certainly not sure he can be trusted with a rebuild (a big part being that I’m not convinced by Wilson either) but I don’t really see anything to suggest behind the scenes issues and usually there’s at least some hint of unrest/discomfort that comes across in interviews, etc.

That’s not conclusive proof of anything by any stretch, but I just can’t see the board axing him this quickly when he’s had no chance to put his own team out there yet.

If they do stick with him, then I think failing to allow him to overhaul the squad to his liking would be a monumental screw up on their part and would be utterly counterproductive.

As for Goldson, yes there was some daft hysteria around his remarks back then, but even the most level-headed of us could see it as an insight to where the squad mentality was at the time.

GVB actually came in and initially settled us, particularly on a defensive note. But that has all the signs of a new manager bounce given what we’ve witnessed in the longer term since.
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The Gio bounce was tactical-we went more defensive -knocked the ball forward more and gave up possession but we sat back-full backs sitting deep etc. It worked short term but longer term it started to unravel-teams got used to it etc...the Piggery game saw the end of that. We then saw Tav etc back to bombing forward etc and a bit more controlled possession. However outside of Europe we haven't been able to stabilise performances at all.

Celtic twice and Pittodrie he gambled on players who haven't featured much to make an impact and indeed with change of personnel leads to a change in tactics/set up.....it hasn't worked 1 point out of 9. Plus the lack of rotation in the squad has became farcical.
 
The club needs a massive overhaul from top to bottom in the summer. Guys like Wilson and the PR guy are bordering on parody for the lack of positives they bring to the club. The management team look to be weak, naive and ultimately just not very good. Then there's the core of first team players that just don't have the bottle to wear the Rangers jersey.

It's absolutely criminal where we find ourselves today after the highs of last season, but it's been an omnishambles from all levels to get us here.

Grim times.
 
%^*& knows why, with that mob falling about with cramp every 2 mins, we didn't make more substitutions near the end and in fact just shoved Goldson up top for the last 5 minutes
 
Also what is Makkay doing with our players in training? We aren't scoring enough goals, virtually every decision made around their box yesterday was the wrong one, too many touches or wrong passes, no decent shots, pathetic set pieces... i don't think Hart had to make a proper save.
 
Theresa May said:
Out of interest, what is it you see?
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I see a manager faced with the same problems Gerrard had a team who can be brilliant and hardworking when it suits them and totally lethargic in the league.
We need the players to change as some only lift their game in Europe and let us down badly in the league.
We have a better team still than them I feel but the players have an attitude problem and this was also the same under Gerrard.
Gio has to get time to build his own team his performance with the team in Europe says to me he deserves that.
 
The board need to make a call and make it relatively quickly, as far as I am concerned.

The "trouble" is, we have Europe.

But starting next season with Gio in charge doesn't fill me with confidence. And Wilson needs to pull his finger out too. Standing proud as punch in Ibrox after we signed Ramsey. As if all is forgiven.

Less licking your lips and more names on strips, Ross.
 
I don’t think GVB is the answer, I would get rid at the end of the season but our recruitment the last two seasons has been poor. Has any signing improved us? We still don’t have a proper captain in midfield driving us on and organising us. We have to many Fancy Dan players who don’t graft hard enough and battle when under the cosh. Aribo is a Prime example. Why sign a guy from new York ? Waste of time. Roofe was bullied yesterday. We need a goal keeper who will command his box. We have no shape or pattern of play. Awful.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
I don’t see us beating them at Hampden and if that’s the case, you can see another hiding in the last Old Firm of the season. It could get nasty.
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I certainly think the rattlers will attempt to humiliate us at the piggery. Who can say with any authority they won’t having watched the Managers previous attempts to outwit the convict.
 
The 2 Braga games and the Scottish Cup Semi Final could finish him tbh

The Dave Vos appointment as hes number 2 is a strange one aswell. Someone who has only worked in youth football

Do we know that was he first choice?
 
I think GvB will still be in place in the summer, and I hope he is. Tactically he probably has more about him that Gerrard. He has an ageing inherited squad who are very decent, but let us face it are not serial winners.

We need a goalie, a left back, a centre half, centre mid, and right winger and that's without any of the starting eleven apart from McGregor moving on. If Alfie and / or Kent move on then we are looking for more.
 
There is no evidence he employs better tactics than SG. None whatsoever to date. The fact that he employed the same basic error on Sunday with Roofe as he did in the piggery debacle was unforgivable. Also he let Rogic swan around like world beater for 45 mins.
BillStruthsGreenhouse said:
I think GvB will still be in place in the summer, and I hope he is. Tactically he probably has more about him that Gerrard. He has an ageing inherited squad who are very decent, but let us face it are not serial winners.

We need a goalie, a left back, a centre half, centre mid, and right winger and that's without any of the starting eleven apart from McGregor moving on. If Alfie and / or Kent move on then we are looking for more.
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IMO we signed Gio because he was available and a former player who had success with us and went on to have a fantastic career.The Club would have no problem getting the fans onside.
Having said that he needs to be given a decent chance.
Stevie G saw what was coming down the road with no budget for signings,mainly due to us losing 23m during the covid crises.Meanwhile the mhanks are splashing around the same 23m on new players because they brought in 30m through player sales.What does Gio get? An untested kid from Man Utd and an unfit injured player trying to regain fitness so he can play for his country.
Every manager wants his own signings and that would be the same for any new manager coming in to replace him.He should be given a chance and hopefully a budget to bring in some fresh faces for the next season.
 
Gio was almost universally wanted by the fans but I thought we rushed into it a bit too fast, we had to get the right manager and team.

Some players have improved under him but I feel he is missing a "Michael Beale" - he is one guy I would bring back.
 
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